NOTE: This page is in desperate need of revision and expansion. In the meantime, I suggest you use Rationalwiki’s Manosphere Glossary.
For newcomers to this blog, here’s a handy guide to some of the strange acronyms and lingo you’ll encounter here and in the “manosphere” in general. (For a definition of that term, see below.) I will update this entry periodically as needed.
First, the acronyms you’ll see most often here:
MRA: Men’s Rights Activist
MRM: Men’s Rights Movement
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way MGHOW: Man Going His Own Way.
Ok, so what do those terms mean?
MRM: The Men’s Rights Movement: A loosely defined, but largely retrograde, collection of activists and internet talkers who fight for what they see as “men’s rights.” Unlike the original Men’s Movement, which was inspired by and heavily influenced by feminism, the self-described Men’s Rights Movement is largely a reactionary movement; with few exceptions, Men’s Rights Activists (or MRAs) are pretty rabidly antifeminist, and many are frankly and sometimes proudly misogynistic. Those who oppose the MRM are generally not against men’s rights per se; they are opposed to those who’ve turned those two words into a synonym for some pretty backwards notions.
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way: As the name suggests, MGTOW is a lot like lesbian separatism, but for straight dudes. MGTOW often talk vaguely about seeking “independence” from western and/or consumer culture, and a few MGTOW try to live that sort of zen existence. But most of those who embrace the term have a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of feminists and women in general. Many MGTOW refuse to date “western women” and some try to avoid women altogether. I think the Man Going His Own Way acronym MGHOW adds another layer of confusion to an already awkward acronym, so I use MGTOWer instead.
Some other terms and acronyms you’ll run across here:
Anglosphere: Countries in which English is the primary language, or, more narrowly, those countries that used to be British colonies. They are full of evil Western Women (see below).
Incel: Involuntarily Celibate. A term, and identity, adopted by some dateless guys (as well as some women, but it’s the men we’ll focus on here). While there is nothing shameful about being dateless, or a virgin, or having a really long dry spell sexually — most of us have been there at some point — the term “involuntarily celibate” seems to suggest that the world owes incels sex, and that women who turn down incel men for dates or sex are somehow oppressing them. For those (male, straight) incels who are genuinely socially awkward or phobic, this can be a self-defeating stance that can lead to bitterness towards women. And often does.
Mangina: Derogatory term used by MRAs, MGTOW, etc. to describe guys who disagree with them — e.g., me. You can figure out the various connotations of this term yourself.
The Manosphere: The loose collection of blogs, message boards, and other sites run by and/or read by MRAs, MGTOW, and assorted friendly Pick-up Artists. The primary source of material for this blog.
NAWALT: Not All Women Are Like That. Dudes in the manosphere make so many ridiculous and untrue generalizations about women that they’ve come up with their own little acronym to describe the most common reaction to their nonsense: “not all women are like that.” Remarkably, many seem to think that making a reference to NAWALT is actually some sort of clever rebuttal of their critics.
PUA: Pick-up Artist. PUAs are obsessed with mastering what they see as the ultimate set of techniques and attitudes — known as “Game” — that will enable them to quickly seduce almost any woman they want. There is a vast literature on “game” online, though PUA (insofar as it is not complete bullshit) is at its essence simply a male version of the age-old ploy of “playing hard to get.”
Western Women: Also known as WW. Evil harpies, at least according to many in the manosphere. Contrasted with “foreign women,” a term that (in the manosphere, at least) sometimes refers to all women outside the Anglosphere, but often refers to a subset of these women from poor and/or Eastern countries, mostly Asian, who are regarded as more pliable and thus more desirable to haters of “Ameriskanks” and other WW.
You won’t be missed, Mr OwnWay, just go already!
I will enjoy my cats! They are way better than MGTOWs.
It totally proves you are going your own way by dropping in here to say that. Totally.
Happily going on his own straight to a feminist blog.
Do they have a list of feminist blogs/sites to announce their plans to? And then when they reach the end of the list they change their name and go through it again, ad infinitum? Or is it just cause the glossary page mentions MGTOW?
How jolly cruel of him to say ‘That is all’. Ohhhhh if only … if only.
ATTN: MRAs!
I will never be a part of you! I don’t need you! You’re terrible!
Now tell me how much you miss me and need me.
Dude, why are you telling us to enjoy our cats like that’s a bad thing? Cats are awesome.
“Enjoy your cats”
And go enjoy your bonbons and scented candles and friends and relationships and careers and voting rights and consensual sex!
Doesn’t really seem to sting, does it?
LOL, How incorrect this information is. Kind proves the point of red pill.
Men are disposable and are only socially engineered to serve women. Red pill philosophy understands this. So this is why MGTOW stay single or choose not to get married. Red pill doesn’t believe that men are better than women, it understands that they are subservient to women and choose to break this pattern. We see women as people, thats it.
Real equaility, no preferential treatment. No chivalry, no favours, just people treating each other the same, Men treating women as they would men. If you think men treat you poorly women, you should see how they treat each other.
I can’t speak for other MGTOW, but I feel apathy towards women, not hatred. I have female friends, but that’s all they are… Friends, we hang out do, eat sushi, watch movies, do nerd shit, get drunk (not have sex cause of some of the reason’s listed below).
1. Yeah some MGTOW are mysogenist, Some Feminist are mysandrist… Some theist are bigots, some athiest are assholes. yeah people abuse ideologies for their own benefits.Nothing new here… Oh well, life sucks and you move on. I could point to some mysandris Feminist like Jessica Velenti or Anita Sarkeesian?
2. Wage gape isn’t real… if men made more money then women for equal work, supply/demand would make sure men would be out of jobs. Basic economics.
If you are a cold calculating business person, and you could pay Jill 77% of what you pay Bob, Bob either has to be really, (and I mean really!!) good at his job, or you tell bob where to stick it and hire Jill.
3. Patriarchy is a lie. It is a combination of Patriarchy and Gynocentrism. Ideally, it’s a trade of sex for resources and protection. Which is why men are socially engineered to protect women. Call a man a rapist, and you’ll see how many other men take care of him. Insult a man’s wife, mother, sister and you’ll see him even die for her. You won’t see the same from women, although the “good” ones will stick by their men. “remember women and children” first.
MRA’s aren’t really bad… MGTOW is worse really… MRA’s at least care about women’s opinions and actually try to seek approval, MGTOW is way more apathetic.
Short list of MRA stuff they care about.
Domestic Abuse- Men getting hit by women, but can’t talk about it cause they will be shamed, so they put up with it cause of pride. (Feminist will somehow blame Patriarchy on this.. so it’s still men’s fault if they get beat???)
Circumcision- We call it genital mutilation and don’t care about what religion says what. Baby boys shouldn’t have their dicks cut up when they don’t have consent… (You would say the same thing about women?)
Alimony-Against cause people don’t want to pay for ex-wife.
False rape accusations- It’s understood rape is bad, and isn’t condoned, but a false accusation will DESTROY a man’s life, and they seek due process. (Think if someone false accused a brother, husband, son, male freind – what would happen?)
Red Pillers are really, and I mean really afraid of divorce cause we don’t want half our shit taken away from us. Also afraid of rape culture, so the smart ones stay away from sexual activities cause we don’t want to go to jail, get our lives ruined and get raped in jail. Also afriad of false accusations, cause again it’ll ruin your life.
One thing that I do want to mention,is that human rights is not a “zero-sum” game. Where one group has to lose for the other to gain. Just like feminist would say that women receiving more rights is not bad for men, the reverse could also be stated. I consider myself an egalatarian and a humanist, and have advocated for both men’s and women’s rights. I do believe feminism has gone overboard in the western society, but is very much needed in eastern society, cause those women are actually oppressed (not some bs like stare-raped or cat-call raped or what ever new fancy term tumblr is coming up with). I have attended some feminist classes in university and yes there are some very valid points, there is also extreme bias against men.
So thats a version of the above stuff from a MGTOW. Hey I even was able to do it without insulting women, I’m going to go eat a cookie to reward myself. Anyways, have a good day.
Oh joy, another glossary troll.
SSJ:
1. So, you’re examples of big bad man-hating feminists are…Jessica Valenti and Anita Sarkeesian? Really? They’re the feminist equivalent of a Christopher from Oregon or a Paul Elam? Really?
2. You realize, don’t you, that you’re arguing that the way gap isn’t real AND that it is necessary for economic survival – which would make it real. So which is it, real or not?
3. You’re doing the same thing here with patriarchy – arguing that it’s not real in the same breath you’re arguing that it actually oppresses men more. Which is it, real or not. PS, all those things you’re listing as “male disposability” is actually “benevolent” sexism – the idea that women are too weak and stupid and child-like to take care of themselves and need a man’s protection. Feminism wants to end that bullshit.
It’s cute that you list all those MRM talking points as if MRAs actually care about them instead of about hating women. So answer me this question, if the MRM actually cares about these things, why haven’t they done anything about them? Why is their main form of activism harrassing and doxxing women and cluttering up the comments sections of any article that mentions feminism?
And you’re also aware (what am I saying, of course you’re not!) that the rate of false accusations for rape is 2-8%, comparable to all other crimes, right? So why is a false rape accusation so much worse than a false murder accusation? Why is rape the only crime where the victim is automatically disbelieved?
And if cat-calling is no big deal, why is asking men to cut it out such a big deal?
Actually, no. What you’ve posted is nothing more than a mish-mash of the same misogynist shit we’ve heard a kajillion times before. But kudos for writing in full, coherent sentences. It makes your logical inconsistencies and misinformation stand out all the more.
“Hey I even was able to do it without insulting women, I’m going to go eat a cookie to reward myself.”
The idea that you deserve a reward for dumping MRA talking points in a feminist comment section without calling anyone a bitch or a whore is quite telling…
Waitasecond…are you telling me that men rape and oppress each other even more than they do us? Because that’s the only way that what you are saying here could make even a subatomic particle of sense.
The rest is too idiotic even to dignify.
Not if female work were viewed as less valuable (such as if women were viewed as less competent). Then companies would be paying for what they think they’re getting.
But here’s the fun thing; when you completely control for hours and job types and only compare men and women working the exact same position, much of the wage gap disappears. It’s still there, but it’s not as big of an effect.
The biggest effect (from what I recall) comes from women being in positions that pay less, and that’s the result of many terrible factors; women being less considered for promotions, work that is stereotypically women’s work being valued less, women being discouraged from pursuing tech jobs, the list goes on.
The standard MRA response is that women are just lazier than men and self-select for fewer hours without any external influence. But you won’t repeat that argument, will you? Because you believe women are adults just like men, and are just as intelligent and capable?
That’s the perniciousness of the wage gap. If there were no factors affecting women’s work opportunities, you’d expect them to be represented equally across all professions. And yet, you don’t, and the wage gap is evidence of that.
To be honest, I came here in good will. I didn’t come here to troll, I don’t have the time to read 1000+ comments.
1. The cookie comment was joke that MRM/MGTOW are misogynistic. I was joking around about that generality. I am very sarcastic in person, I forget that it doesn’t translate well in a written form.
2. I don’t believe in wage gap. There is a hours work gap. BTW men and women should be paid equal for work, no disagreement here. One of the thigns that isn’t spoken about is time spent on the home-life which women often more “responsible” for. This is a gender role enforced by society/culture/expecations. How people want to tackle this issue is up to them.
3. I do agree that women are men’s equal (in terms of rights and responsibilities in MODERN Society. So end chivalry BS. Equality for everything across the board, for laws. But the one thing that is missing here or is not stated is the difference between equality of opportunity vs equality of result. Women don’t need men’s protection, but this is bad for society. Biologically, men are protective of women, this makes sense on a biological sense and is hard to ignore. If men didn’t protect women in the “wild”, the human race would have a hard time surviving. Men put women and children first, because this is how they are socialized and ensure that the family unit/human race continues. If someone hear’s a noise in the house, it’s up to the man to investigate (equality goes out the window). It is natural for men to sacrifice themselves for women, to do so is against human nature.
Unfortunately, this isn’t needed anymore, and the current environment is toxic to men. And these qualities are seen as negative and men are being taken advantage of and literally taken to the cleaners by women. Look at post secondary institutions in Canada + the US, it’s 60% women now, and soon it will be 70-80%. Is this bad? I don’t know, but I do worry for future boys. The salvation for men will be in the Trades, as women avoid this field and this field still pays more. Men will always go for what ever pays the most money no matter what (which is why men will go for those jobs that may kill them).
-equality of opportunity, everyone has a chance at xxx, the best, the hardest working get in or promoted.
– equality of result- 50% across the board regardless of ability.
How would you feel if they instituted that with the education sector, where they make it 50/50, and even the shittiest male teachers are hired over decent female teachers. I would be horrified.
My problem with feminism is that it spits on the fact that men are human and seeks to make them more like women. It demonizes them, makes them all out to be rapists and treats them like Schrodinger’s rapist, where they are threat even if they haven’t committed the act. No one is saying rape is good, and anyone who does is a mentally sick person or a person without a moral compass. What men are asking for is valid proof that the act occured before you destroy his life, his name and value as a person.
If you have a problem with feminism, it automatically makes you anti-woman. Thats like saying if you are anti-MRM you are anti men. It’s a silly notion. I am critical of everything in life, politics, ideology.
Every time a man wishes to bring up a point that is against mainstream ideology, he is shamed into shutting up. Man up, shut up and do as you are told, or face the consequence which is the denial of sex and in turn value in society. Being a man, or the value of a man is related to how much resources he can get, and to how much female approval he can get. (Female approval = sex aswell). Look at the male virgin, he is thought of as a loser, and this equal to calling a woman a slut – (apologies, as a general rule I try to avoid using disgusting language). It’s a double edge sword of gender stereotypes,norms, culture and expectations, male virginity is something to be disgusted with, while female virginity is held at a premium. So the tactic of attacking a man’s ability to obtain sex is a direct attack on his value as a human being. (The inverse can be stated about women where stating that a women gives sex too freely is also deemed as an attack). Feminism focuses on the female aspect of this relationship, while MGTOW looks into the male side.
Catcalling. I don’t think it’s a problem personally. I don’t do it, as it makes me seem like a (again sorry for the aggressive language) “pussy-addicted” asshole who can’t control himself. It doesn’t work, and if it did, it’s probably not the kind of woman I would want to spend my time with. I would rather approach a female friend, ask her out for coffee and get to know her.
Catcalling is generally done by men of low education. If you are talking about the NY video from last year, than the perpetrator’s were men from Hispanic and Black backgrounds. I am not a woman, so I obviously don’t notice it, but I rarely see catcalling, but if I do it’s from “thuggy” guys that try to display hyper masculinity as a method of showing their value because they don’t have much to offer or haven’t grown as a person (from my point of view). To be honest, most of these guys are doing this not for the woman’s attention, but from a form of validation from other men to prove to them that they are “alpha”. Unfortunately, the target of these catcalling are attractive women who will get annoyed after a while.
-The point that MRA’s aren’t doing anything.
There is actually a huge fight in the red pill manosphere between MGTOW and MRA and PUA (Pick up artists). Each is starting to dislike the other for various reasons. MRA think MGTOW are crazy isolationists (we are) and PUA are disgusting pieces of shits (they are, but I understand why they act the way they are). PUA think MRA’s are wasting their time cause legal change will never happen and they are able to get the sexual approval they seek, while they see MGTOW as angry, neckbeards who live in thier mothers basement and can’t get any sex (remember that point where a man’s value is based on the amount of sex they can obtain). MGTOW see PUA as pussy addicted shitheads who still put all this energy into getting sex instead of focusing on themselves. MGTOW sees MRA/AVFM as older men from a past generation that still believe in marriage and try to get men back into the plantation known as marriage (again MGTOW really don’t like marriage).
Personally, I do believe MRA’s aren’t doing enough, and it’s too hard right now. Speak too much, and get shamed, accused of misogyny, and possibly lose your career/job. Do I believe in their points, yeah I do. The reason MGTOW works better is cause it has immediate effects and is easier to do, just don’t get married, and avoid having children. With the whole MRA thing, I don’t think MRA’s will be able to do anything in the long run, I’ve tried and although people agree with my points, they don’t care. Most of the female MRA’s are mothers, wives, and girlfreinds who fear for their respective male counterparts. Current numbers are 20%, but that may have grown. I don’t think think anything will be accomplished until guys really, and I mean really get fed up with society. This phenomenon is only occurring because men can finally speak in safe zones without female intervention (the internet).
I do understand/comprehend that life sucks for women, I have a sister, a mother and have had various partners, and I do feel empathy for them, sometimes this all seems like a victim race, where people are looking for ways to get most empathy (and money) from their situation. But the thing about modern society, is that it literally forgets that everyone is human and deserves some respect, compassion and understanding. Go look at suicide rates, and ask why does it happen? Look at the american school shooting, I feel it stems from the same environment that creates suicidal men, it’s just that the outcome is much more violent and horrific.
-The one thing that may not have been covered is the red pill rage (I feel that I am over this). The red pill rage is anger that occurs when you realize that life is a lie. You see mysandry everywhere and it gets you boiled up. This is where you see these angry guys posting aggressively and trolling people. It’s cause they feel betrayed by society, their hopes and dreams all shattered and bashed. Once you see the red pill, there is no going back and at times, I still wish I was ignorant with a wife and a couple of kids and living the “dream”. They are pissed off at how men are disable, how marriage works, how guys are constantly getting screwed over. After a while, the rage goes away and they calm down and start working on themselves (hence why lots of MGTOW like martial arts, body building, philosophy and other forms of trying to get self actualization).
I do everything from an egalitarian perspective, and work as a counselor for youth. I’ve helped young girls get back to school, I’ve helped young girls stop prostituting themselves, assisted boys with dealing with suicide, helped both get around drug addiction. I would rather see real world results and help people instead of demonize them and making things seems like it’s their fault. You may disagree with my perspective and views, that’s your right, but I also have a right to disagree with everything that has been presented to me.
Anyways, thank you for taking the time to read my point of view. Reading your points/counter arguments was enjoyable . Personally if I was woman, I wouldn’t stress out about MGTOW, I would just continue living my life as if they didn’t exist, they are just a bunch of guys who don’t want to get married.
Have a good day.
SSJ
@kirby Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think another factor towards problems like women being passed for promotions or paid less in ‘women’s work’ roles is because of the lingering expectation that women sacrifice their careers in the event of a baby. Employers aren’t legally allowed to ask women about their pregnancy plans during job interviews, but the fact that it had to be criminalised says that employers have it on their minds. If they think that a woman is likely to drop out of the workforce for a few years to raise a kid up to school age, they won’t bother to make investments in her like promoting her to a higher responsibility position. Decades ago men let women into the workforce on their terms, i.e. ok you can have a job, but you still do the housework and childcare. That attitude hasn’t quite gone away. Much better than it was, but needs improvement. When there is a 50/50 balance regarding home and family things will improve for working women.
Thoughts, anyone?
Go suck a brick. Nobody should have to trade sex for resources and protection. Nobody. If you truly believe men and women are equal, you shouldn’t either (unless you think men should also be trading sex for resources and protection).
Bill Cosby.
No you won’t. At most you’ll see a fight, but you’ll never see death. Usually he’ll just walk away. Modern life isn’t a medieval fantasy novel with blood feuds.
You’ve never seen women fighting other women over an insult to their husband or boyfriend? Reality TV is full of that garbage. The only reason there’s less likely to be physical violence is because women aren’t trained to respond with physical violence like men are. Toxic masculinity in action.
Linear combination? If so…
Patriarchy = A*Patriarchy + B*Gynocentrism
Patriarchy = (A*Patriarchy + B*Gynocentrism) + B*Gynocentrism
…
Patriarchy = A*Patriarchy + N*B*Gynocentrism
(1-A)*Patriarchy = N*Gynocentrism
Gynocentrism = (1-A)/N*Patriarchy
As N approaches infinity (expanding Patriarchy out fully), Gynocentrism approaches 0.
So basically, you’re saying that Gynocentrism doesn’t exist?
Damn, lost the “B” in that equation.
Gynocentrism = ((1-A)/(B*N))*Patriarchy.
Still works out the same in the limit.
@SunnySombrera:
Sounds about right. Luckily, if Paternity leave keeps on getting more common, that factor will have to disappear. You can’t really expect to never hire anyone, or only hire people past child-having age.
“If you think men treat you poorly women, you should see how they treat each other.”
Wow, that’s like the “you shouldn’t care about problem A because problem B is worse” silencing argument, except it’s become ” Y (women) shouldn’t care about the horrible things X (men) does to Y, because X does even more horrible things to X”
It seems, at least to me, that the common factor is X doing horrible things. Maybe they should stop promoting/defending/doing those things, then life will be better for both X and Y.
Those equations. Ow my head. I can’t math. Because I’m feeeeemale I’m more of a wordsmith person. Numbers and symbols no thanks.
Respect to the ones who can handle that shit though. *tips hat to Kirby*
NO. THAT WAS MEANT TO HAVE STRIKETHROUGH ON THE “I’M FEEEEMALE” PART. BAD MAMMOTH. BAD.
Argh.. my poor math… hang on.
Patriarchy = A*(A*Patriarchy+B*Gynocentrism)+B*Gynocentrism
Patriarchy = A^2*Patriarchy+(1+A)*B*Gynocentrism
oof…
so…
Patriarchy = A^N*Patriarchy + (1+A+A^2+A^3+…+A^N)*B*Gynocentrism
If A = 1, then Patriarchy is just Patriarchy, so that’s boring.
If A = 0, then Patriarchy is just Gynocentrism, and that’s meaningless.
if A > 0 and A < 1, then the polynomial collapses to to 1/(1-A), and you're left with:
Patriarchy = A^N*Patriarchy+1/(1-A)*B*Gynocentrism
Gynocentrism = (1-A^N)*(1-A)/B*Patriarchy
As N approaches infinity, A^N approaches zero.. so hmm…
Gynocentrism = (1-A)/B*Patriarchy.
Huh, that's nifty, it doesn't turn out to be infinite! Cool! This is basically same as the old equation though, so eh. That was way more boring than I thought it would be.
Is that right though? If X is is combination of itself and something else, and you kept expanding it out, surely the X portion should disappear eventually and you should be left with other thing…
*scratches head*
At Bina,
Males rape and oppress each other in Prison. Male on Male rape occurs, it’s just that men don’t want to bring it up because it devalues their self esteem and is a cause of suicide. Female on male rape also occurs, it’s just that men are socialized that they should enjoy it and it doesn’t really count. Hence this is why it’s under reported, there is also very little social institutions to help men with this problem and again victim blaming happens (similar to women). Except it’s different cause the man is expected to be able to fight off his rapist.
At Kirby,
No I wouldn’t use that argument that women are below men or are stupid etc. The one thing I did want to mention, is that house work/taking care of children should be seen as an investment of time seperate from work which also isn’t valued. But from an economic perspective, the kids should take care of you in your elder age, therefore it’s a form of investment that hopefully pays off in the future when you can’t take care of yourself (I know, I made lots of fallacies with that last statement). If you are talking about workplace. Yeah there is discrimination against women, and i’ve seen it but I don’t know how to properly “fight” it or combat it. The reason for this is for time for pregnancies and companies fear having to replace that human power for that time. There is also an expectation that women will spend more time at home because of children while men may be expected to stay at work longer even if they have children, I assume this is a residue from the traditional family unit of the 1950’s-80’s. I don’t have a viable or good solution for this. But yes, this does exist.
Keep in mind, just like there are ignorant and dumb feminist, there are equally dumb and ignorant MRA’s. The popular not all feminist are like that “NAFALT” (my sister is what I would call one of them, she is finishing her bachelor’s in gender and women studies), I can also state that not all MRA’s are like that. The problem though is that many are like “that” and the moderates of the group don’t call out the extremist enough. If a man tells me all women are stupid… I’m going to call him out on it, but I do expect the same from a feminist (like my sister) if the same thing was said about men. Look at the Islam Problem and ISIS, it is really up to the “good” muslims to call out the extremist, if an outside force gets involved it’ll be seen as an attack on the whole group and will be accused of bigotry. I personally don’t believe people do this enough because they are afraid of being ejected from the group. The problem with this though is group dynamics, where groups eventually become an echo chamber and a circle jerk. This is why, once in a while, I’ll go visit places with opposing viewpoints, to shock myself and get me thinking again critically. I like seeing people counter my points and seeing if they hold up to criticism. yeah I may get annoyed, but I may also learn something new.
You guys/gals have brought up some stuff I’ll need to contemplate, thank you for your time.
SSJ