NOTE: This page is in desperate need of revision and expansion. In the meantime, I suggest you use Rationalwiki’s Manosphere Glossary.
For newcomers to this blog, here’s a handy guide to some of the strange acronyms and lingo you’ll encounter here and in the “manosphere” in general. (For a definition of that term, see below.) I will update this entry periodically as needed.
First, the acronyms you’ll see most often here:
MRA: Men’s Rights Activist
MRM: Men’s Rights Movement
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way MGHOW: Man Going His Own Way.
Ok, so what do those terms mean?
MRM: The Men’s Rights Movement: A loosely defined, but largely retrograde, collection of activists and internet talkers who fight for what they see as “men’s rights.” Unlike the original Men’s Movement, which was inspired by and heavily influenced by feminism, the self-described Men’s Rights Movement is largely a reactionary movement; with few exceptions, Men’s Rights Activists (or MRAs) are pretty rabidly antifeminist, and many are frankly and sometimes proudly misogynistic. Those who oppose the MRM are generally not against men’s rights per se; they are opposed to those who’ve turned those two words into a synonym for some pretty backwards notions.
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way: As the name suggests, MGTOW is a lot like lesbian separatism, but for straight dudes. MGTOW often talk vaguely about seeking “independence” from western and/or consumer culture, and a few MGTOW try to live that sort of zen existence. But most of those who embrace the term have a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of feminists and women in general. Many MGTOW refuse to date “western women” and some try to avoid women altogether. I think the Man Going His Own Way acronym MGHOW adds another layer of confusion to an already awkward acronym, so I use MGTOWer instead.
Some other terms and acronyms you’ll run across here:
Anglosphere: Countries in which English is the primary language, or, more narrowly, those countries that used to be British colonies. They are full of evil Western Women (see below).
Incel: Involuntarily Celibate. A term, and identity, adopted by some dateless guys (as well as some women, but it’s the men we’ll focus on here). While there is nothing shameful about being dateless, or a virgin, or having a really long dry spell sexually — most of us have been there at some point — the term “involuntarily celibate” seems to suggest that the world owes incels sex, and that women who turn down incel men for dates or sex are somehow oppressing them. For those (male, straight) incels who are genuinely socially awkward or phobic, this can be a self-defeating stance that can lead to bitterness towards women. And often does.
Mangina: Derogatory term used by MRAs, MGTOW, etc. to describe guys who disagree with them — e.g., me. You can figure out the various connotations of this term yourself.
The Manosphere: The loose collection of blogs, message boards, and other sites run by and/or read by MRAs, MGTOW, and assorted friendly Pick-up Artists. The primary source of material for this blog.
NAWALT: Not All Women Are Like That. Dudes in the manosphere make so many ridiculous and untrue generalizations about women that they’ve come up with their own little acronym to describe the most common reaction to their nonsense: “not all women are like that.” Remarkably, many seem to think that making a reference to NAWALT is actually some sort of clever rebuttal of their critics.
PUA: Pick-up Artist. PUAs are obsessed with mastering what they see as the ultimate set of techniques and attitudes — known as “Game” — that will enable them to quickly seduce almost any woman they want. There is a vast literature on “game” online, though PUA (insofar as it is not complete bullshit) is at its essence simply a male version of the age-old ploy of “playing hard to get.”
Western Women: Also known as WW. Evil harpies, at least according to many in the manosphere. Contrasted with “foreign women,” a term that (in the manosphere, at least) sometimes refers to all women outside the Anglosphere, but often refers to a subset of these women from poor and/or Eastern countries, mostly Asian, who are regarded as more pliable and thus more desirable to haters of “Ameriskanks” and other WW.
Something we agree on, as you do not seem to be able to grasp basic concepts.
As much as you’d like to, you do not get to redefine feminism. And as much as you’d like to believe so, you’re redefinition of feminism is completely off the mark.
For instance! You keep talking about “cause and effect,” as if we’re taking about the laws of physics, and not people’s lives and interpersonal relationships. It is not and inevitability that men and women have to conform to traditional gender roles in order to be able to live and love and work together. Trans people, gay men and lesbians do not complicate this conversation. The only way they do is if you are so terrified at people not confirming to your binary gender dichotomy that cannot even think about them. (Most people do not conform to binary gender roles, by the way).
The people you are defending; the MGTOWs, the PUAs, the MRAs; these people are terrified of people not fitting into strict binary gender roles. They are pissed off that men’s traditional privilege and power are being eroded. They are pissed off that women are seen as equals and are seeing themselves as equals. And they hate women for defying them. They truly believe that a woman being able to work, or to vote, or to do any of a number of things that don’t conform to the traditional feminine gender role hurts them somehow. As you seem to believe. Else you wouldn’t be here spewing walls o’ text about stars, which has nothing do with the conversation about gender roles in society.
So no, I don’t care what the hateful think. And those men who can’t seem to function in modern day society? Who get apoplectic about the very idea if a woman playing video games or speaking her mind on the Internet or whatever it is that angers them? They’re the ones who need to change. They’re the ones in the wrong.
Not feminists. Not women.
And if Miss Bennet were magically transported out the novel and into modern day, she’d be way more interested and excited about the expanded opportunities available to women today. She’d be much too busy living her own life to worry about what a couple of cranky misogynists have to say.
Kinda like what modern women are doing today.
Word Sparky. Unknown Traveller.
“You see eventually these men realize the influence feminist have on society, women, and male and female interaction. They know what most women have to offer but realize most women aren’t willing to offer it.”
– Blah blah blah, women won’t sleep with me because feminists!! wah wah!
I cannot explain how much it doesn’t bother me that you are not happy that I am happy. I am happy, my husband is happy, my community has a lot of happiness in it. I have a great career and family and I made all that happen and feminism helped to make all that possible. Words cannot express how much I don’t want to talk to you any more. It’s not even about not feeding you. I’m just bored with you.
Hmm, if this is your best counter then this conversation truly is over. You parade your husband like he’s some sort of trophy. I pray he really is happy and for your happiness, for your family and your career. Don’t bother replying, I won’t return your response. Live life and find peace. That goes for you too Sparky.
I love when assholes say “don’t bother replying”, as if they’re the ones in control of the conversation.
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=trophy+husband&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=vO_2U4KXJ9K8uAS5lYHwCw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=580#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=gZFHpYPpEs5WEM%253A%3BrkE5qEWoopRx1M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F2.bp.blogspot.com%252F_87WI5jiixGs%252FTR-uUFtIT3I%252FAAAAAAAABKg%252F_JfOaYg7GXM%252Fs400%252Frespectful%25252Bwomen.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Farchive.feedblitz.com%252F52665%252F~3950353%3B400%3B267
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_87WI5jiixGs/TR-uUFtIT3I/AAAAAAAABKg/_JfOaYg7GXM/s1600/respectful%2Bwomen.jpg
That’s me on the left, and my husband in the middle. He’s a fireman too and can make a lovely quiche.
I like how Unknown Traveler didn’t address any actual points, complained about women not appreciating men, then attacked Katie for appreciating her husband.
Traveler, you’re trying to collectively guilt women, and to blame feminists, for large numbers of women not embracing traditional roles.
If women were happy in those traditional roles, they would not have rejected them in such large numbers…Because women are not stupid or easily brainwashed, in the main.
They aren’t quitting the subservient female model because of the pied pipers of feminism, they’re doing it because that’s what they want to do. Also because two incomes are an economic necessity for a lot of couples.
But regarding the traditional, demure, obedient woman, or the lack thereof…
You want women to collectively be made to live in roles that only a minority of women are happy in?
This so that men can remain in their traditional roles, rather than adjusting concepts of manliness to the new social realities.
Rather than trying to find other ways of being happy, women must be made unhappy so that men can be happy. Zero-sum thinking at its’ finest.
Something else I note:
A lot of MGTOW’s and MRA’s claim that women are just into men for the men’s money.
But then they get mad about women who want to work hard and make good money on their own.
…Man, that catch-22, it’s the best catch there is…
Because of the illuminati initiated feminism and the unjust one sided pro women anti men justice and court system,that is why more and more men have decided that its safer to not have marriage and not to have any relationships.
Why risk losing what you earn in your lifetime all because of the unfair anti men court and family courts…???
That is the main and real reasons why more and more men have decided to become grass eaters (MGTOW) and stop going after women.
When law makers make bad laws eg the anti men family courts system ,you end up with a situation where the natural balance in nature is being negatively affected.
The end result is that humans are negatively impacted by bad laws and bad ideology like feminism (that are initiated by the Illuminati to try to destroy the family .)
Chwee Hai Qing Phillip: Okay, but what about the ancient aliens? Where do they fit in with all that?
No, no, Sparky! That was all done by the Reptilians who live inside the Earth (which is hollow).
I thought the ancient aliens were reptilian. Or is that the tall whites? Maybe feminists are tall whites come here to bathe in male tears.
Unknown Traveler said (in his attempt to redefine feminism) “Equality for women and only women regardless of the effects it may have on men. ”
UT just revealed he is MRA. That’s their ruse, which is absolutely ridiculous. If women are equal to men, men are equal to women. There’s no other way it works except in the minds of MRAs who want to pretend women having rights somehow harms them by taking away their rights. I’ve yet to hear how any man has lost any right because feminists have been successful in establishing equal rights for women. What they’re really complaining about is the loss of unearned privileges and entitlements men have traditionally denied to women.
As to the rest UT posts, it’s all tripe dressed up in fancy language. It’s the same old, same old. Men and women can and do complement each other as equals. Men don’t need women to be downtrodden to feel comfortable in a relationship. If a man does think he needs that, then he needs therapy more.
Hi!
I just want to inform that if ‘incel’ has come to mean “dateless people who believe they are entitled to sex” then the term has been hijacked. Not long ago there was a very active forum community called “Incel Support” where people gathered to exchange experiences of life-long dry spells and figure out how to break the pattern where conventional psychology had failed them.
It was all about removing mental blocks causing constant failures for people to engage in romantic and sexual relationships, and unlike conventional psychology, deem the celibacy as THE problem, not just a symtom of other mental issues (which granted, it sometimes could be).
Because regardless how much you work with youself, there’s still no guarantee that anything will ever happen because it always takes another person to want YOU. Therefore therapists shy around the subject, try and divert the topic, sugarcoat it, have you focusing on other things, because they KNOW the odds of failure is high and they think that tiptoeing around it can have you to sort of forget about it.
On the forum, many were helped and plenty people actually found relationships or successfully adopted a manageable perspective on their situation. Yet they stuck around for years to help, advise and challenge the miserable.
It had a huge amount of members and was heavily moderated to prevent any misogyny or PUA. Although people were often banned for spouting that crap, it was always tried at first to assist them to see how those perspectives weren’t helpful and how it could actually aggravate the situation to adopt such hostile world views.
Sadly, it shut down, because I would have really liked to link it. Too many amazing, insightful and helpful posts got flushed away.
Well i thought i might take another crack at this. So Katie, there’s something I’d like to go back to.
You stated “You assume women want to be appreciated by men.”
I responded “I apologize, but I don’t see why that’s an issue, Imagine if you will, if we were to teach young boys not to appreciate women, to respect them as people and nothing more. After all, women don’t care about his appreciation anyway. That is what you just said. So imagine the repercussion as those young boys turned to men. How they would treat women and possible wives. They would be quite something wouldn’t they?”
I really want you to answer this. Mind you this means no gifts of expressing love, no wooing, no pampering, committing little to no gestures of sacrifice, and any form of appreciation towards femininity that would be tied to traditionalism. All these things would be removed from boys at an early age. Are the men I just described ideal men for women? This is a legitimate question.
You don’t need to train people into gender roles. They learn how to behave from their primary education in their family structure. Hopefully my children will see a mostly happy, balanced, loving and mutually supportive relationship. How an individual woman negotiates any relationship is different. In the public sphere women have the right to be treated as people, like men. Don’t be overly familiar if you don’t know her. Each person builds up their own boundaries of what is ok with others that they have a reciprocal relationship with based on using their basic emotional intelligence. What is not ok, is making assumptions about how someone wants to be treated because of their sex, even if they are a stranger. For example, cat-calling a woman on the street. It is unsolicited and I wouldn’t want it. Therefore as you don’t know the person, you should not assume that you know how they want to be treated. It is not a question of what should be removed from boys, but that all women (as humans) should have the right to move publicly without being objectified because they’re a woman. Really feel like I’m stating the obvious here. Loretta has said it all really.
UK: Posts after flouncing are subject to a standard 2 point deduction for each post.
Oh, fuck that noise! I’d rather be regarded as an adult human being & citizen with full rights and respect that being an adult human being & citizen entails rather than being seen as dependent child and given flowers and chocolates in heart-shaped boxes! This is not that difficult to grasp!
Why the hell do you think boys need to be taught that women are delicate little flowers that need to be cosseted? Why the hell do you think this dynamic is remotely healthy or sustainable for anyone involved?
-2/10
Something that I need to address first, you guys are using Loretta post as if she/he unlocked some dynamic truth to what I wrote. But all she did was take one sentence, from a paragraph mind you, to make a point that suited a narrow point of view. The redefinition of feminism was not to show that women rights hurt men. It was to reveal that your definition of equality is self centered and self serving. Which if you look at the textbook definition you can’t deny that’s a fact. Personally I find the uses this kind of tactics to control a conversation to be cheap. So I disregarded it.
@ Sparky
It’s a simple yes or no question. You guys assume I’m MRA, I’m not. Personally I don’t care what women do from this point, telling you what should be done isn’t why I’m here.
@ Katie
Don’t mean to be rude but your still looking at this from a narrow perspective. You do need to train people with Gender roles, or in any role for that matter. Gender roles are like rules, and as awesome as it may be to give people the freedom to do as they please, it’s usually not a good idea. It’s like the President going on National television and claiming there are no more laws, no rules. Everyone be nice to one another at your own discretion. Honestly, I’d give the country 2 weeks, a month tops. Just through human nature we’re selfish and sometimes violent. Individually people will often pick the betterment of self over the betterment of the group. What might be considered good for one may be harmful to anyone other than oneself.
So let’s be real. In a perfect world with perfect people the notion no rules/gender roles need apply might fly. IMO Feminist would’ve had a better chance at achieving harmony if they would’ve simply talked with men and revamped gender roles rather than removing them. So what we have now in 2015 is an anything goes types system were people become consumed by their own individuality. They become dysfunctional but believe they’re not dysfunctional because there are no rules to tell them otherwise. And I’ll agree that people mostly learn from their education of family structure, but happens when dysfunctional people start dysfunctional families, raise dysfunctional children which in turn start dysfunctional families of their own. The cycle continues and then spreads, amplifying over time due to a no rules environment.
Now let’s say the family is perfect in a mutual relationship between parents. There are still dysfunctional people all over society that will influence your children. This scales from their peers, to their mentors, and the media itself. Not to mention sons and daughters will get caught in dysfunctional relations which will ultimately impact them on some level. All these factors exist because of human nature being unbound by rules. This is a byproduct of someone or a group of someone’s that only looked at the society from one perspective, their perspective. And I wish I could claim this to be speculation but undeniably it has happened and is happening. Gender roles are needed in some way or form. The problem today is that there are none.
UK:
Oh, ha! I get it now! The idea that people aren’t being forced into strict binary gender roles is terrifying to you, isn’t it? So, if society doesn’t force people into strict traditional gender roles then we’ll slide into chaos and lawlessness? Really? Women going to work and men being stay-at-home dads will bring the apocalypse? Wow. There is just a lot of fear there.
Why exactly does women’s equality frighten you, Unknown Traveler?
-4/10
You don’t need to be an MRA to be a colossal asshole.
@ Taitaisanchez
I am an asshole. I’m not being smart. I just am.
@ Sparky
Again, your narrow perspective keeps you blind. You’re unable to look beyond yourself because your mindset is gynocentric. Just as Loretta used a portion of my post to serve the feminist perspective so have you Sparky. Rather than taking my words and using them to reflect you lash out and attack in a way that serves your gynocentric point of view. I am not afraid and neither do I care. My point here wasn’t to blame women rights for the end of the world, but the effects of creating an environment with no rules leads to chaos. If you don’t want to call it Gender roles then call it something else. Regardless rules in some way or form are still needed.
On a personal note, I find a conversation with a feminist is like trying to convince a drug addict of their own addiction. Figuratively I’ve forced you to look into a mirror yet still cling to self proclaimed perfection. You’re so immersed in your identity that you instantly come to the conclusion that any problem must be due to an outside source. I find this unfathomable to believe yet interesting enough here it is before my eyes. I said it before and I’ll say it one last time. This world isn’t made of just women, nor does it solely revolve around them. You act, speak, and I’d even go as far to say you think in this fashion in nearly every aspect of male and female interaction. You instill this kind of behavior in other women and then shield yourself behind the banner of equal rights for women. IMO this is the main reason why a lot of men misinterpret feminism. Your poor behavior and arrogance has tarnished what it means. Practice humility and compassion and you’ll effectively spread the harmony you claim to strive for. Practice self indulgence and insensitivity and you will effectively spread hate. Don’t be offended by these words, take them, grow. I hope they bring you some form of clarity and wisdom.
Finally, an ounce of self-awareness from one of our trolls. I am actually kind of impressed.
Of course, everything else you’ve said is complete asshattery, covered by patronizing condescension, and dipped in a batter made of dog shit and ground glass before being deep fried. So thanks, but no thanks. I’m on a strict ‘no shit & ground glass’ diet these days.
UK: I hit a nerve there, didn’t I? That must mean I’m right.
Compassion I have, but I will not practice humility to an asshole.
-6/10