NOTE: This page is in desperate need of revision and expansion. In the meantime, I suggest you use Rationalwiki’s Manosphere Glossary.
For newcomers to this blog, here’s a handy guide to some of the strange acronyms and lingo you’ll encounter here and in the “manosphere” in general. (For a definition of that term, see below.) I will update this entry periodically as needed.
First, the acronyms you’ll see most often here:
MRA: Men’s Rights Activist
MRM: Men’s Rights Movement
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way MGHOW: Man Going His Own Way.
Ok, so what do those terms mean?
MRM: The Men’s Rights Movement: A loosely defined, but largely retrograde, collection of activists and internet talkers who fight for what they see as “men’s rights.” Unlike the original Men’s Movement, which was inspired by and heavily influenced by feminism, the self-described Men’s Rights Movement is largely a reactionary movement; with few exceptions, Men’s Rights Activists (or MRAs) are pretty rabidly antifeminist, and many are frankly and sometimes proudly misogynistic. Those who oppose the MRM are generally not against men’s rights per se; they are opposed to those who’ve turned those two words into a synonym for some pretty backwards notions.
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way: As the name suggests, MGTOW is a lot like lesbian separatism, but for straight dudes. MGTOW often talk vaguely about seeking “independence” from western and/or consumer culture, and a few MGTOW try to live that sort of zen existence. But most of those who embrace the term have a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of feminists and women in general. Many MGTOW refuse to date “western women” and some try to avoid women altogether. I think the Man Going His Own Way acronym MGHOW adds another layer of confusion to an already awkward acronym, so I use MGTOWer instead.
Some other terms and acronyms you’ll run across here:
Anglosphere: Countries in which English is the primary language, or, more narrowly, those countries that used to be British colonies. They are full of evil Western Women (see below).
Incel: Involuntarily Celibate. A term, and identity, adopted by some dateless guys (as well as some women, but it’s the men we’ll focus on here). While there is nothing shameful about being dateless, or a virgin, or having a really long dry spell sexually — most of us have been there at some point — the term “involuntarily celibate” seems to suggest that the world owes incels sex, and that women who turn down incel men for dates or sex are somehow oppressing them. For those (male, straight) incels who are genuinely socially awkward or phobic, this can be a self-defeating stance that can lead to bitterness towards women. And often does.
Mangina: Derogatory term used by MRAs, MGTOW, etc. to describe guys who disagree with them — e.g., me. You can figure out the various connotations of this term yourself.
The Manosphere: The loose collection of blogs, message boards, and other sites run by and/or read by MRAs, MGTOW, and assorted friendly Pick-up Artists. The primary source of material for this blog.
NAWALT: Not All Women Are Like That. Dudes in the manosphere make so many ridiculous and untrue generalizations about women that they’ve come up with their own little acronym to describe the most common reaction to their nonsense: “not all women are like that.” Remarkably, many seem to think that making a reference to NAWALT is actually some sort of clever rebuttal of their critics.
PUA: Pick-up Artist. PUAs are obsessed with mastering what they see as the ultimate set of techniques and attitudes — known as “Game” — that will enable them to quickly seduce almost any woman they want. There is a vast literature on “game” online, though PUA (insofar as it is not complete bullshit) is at its essence simply a male version of the age-old ploy of “playing hard to get.”
Western Women: Also known as WW. Evil harpies, at least according to many in the manosphere. Contrasted with “foreign women,” a term that (in the manosphere, at least) sometimes refers to all women outside the Anglosphere, but often refers to a subset of these women from poor and/or Eastern countries, mostly Asian, who are regarded as more pliable and thus more desirable to haters of “Ameriskanks” and other WW.
Calling it involuntary celibacy is the problem. On those occasions where I wanted sex, and it didn’t happen were, most definitely not voluntary, on my part. But sex is a shared activity, and if the other party doesn’t want it, then it’s not happening (unless one is a rapist).
There were (it turns out) some times when it was a shared lack involuntinarity, but that’s because we were both crap at communicating/oblivious to our mutual interest.
But saying a lack of sex is, “involuntary” makes fucking a right. It makes it something which being, “denied” is a grave social problem. It’s not. Taking away people’s agency, that’s a social problem. If they looked at their issue as one of, “there is something I don’t understand about how to approach others/express my interest/interact with the people to whom I am attracted”, it would be one thing. But they don’t. They complain that, “women won’t fuck me”, which is both true, and not relevant.
None of us is entitled to sex, nor love, nor any other intimate interpersonal interaction.
Yeah, I’m a laundry list of nuts, and celibate for going on 7 years now, but incel? Nawh, that implies that it’s someone else’s fault. Rewording the glossary to note that they don’t recognize how they play a major role in their not getting laid…that might not be a bad idea.
Pecunium — how many Dx’s am I up to now? I lost count…4?
Bingo.
I would also like to add that it is NOT a basic need, either. It’s like the latest fashion in sneakers: it’s cool, you’d feel awesome if you had it, but it’s not an absolute MUST. You can still make do with what you’ve got. Never mind the sniping from the in-group.
this is taiki btw, turns out I *do* have a wordpress account.
I would also like to add that it is NOT a basic need, either. It’s like the latest fashion in sneakers: it’s cool, you’d feel awesome if you had it, but it’s not an absolute MUST. You can still make do with what you’ve got. Never mind the sniping from the in-group.
It’s not that simple. I’m strictly speaking from my own experience
None of us are entitled to sex, love or intimacy, but we are entitled to our own agency with it. After awhile of with out it and being unable to attract it, I lost the feeling of agency of being able to participate in sexual and intimate social spaces. Which, as you can guess, is kind of a big deal.
The involuntary part of “involuntary celibacy” is pretty much that lack of agency. It’s not like we had a choice for it to go away. However, referring to it as a loss of agency or some kind of loss of self identity might be better than saying “involuntary celibacy.”
The problem we tend to face is that when your problem is that you’re not likable, who is your advocate? Who speaks up for you? Where do you go? What do you do? It’s kind of ridiculous.
You see how much better “I’m try to be more likeable” sounds than “I’m involuntarily celibate” though? The former is “I’m trying to change myself” — you play an active role in the problem at hand — the latter is “other people make me this way”, where you become a passive agent to other people’s whims.
Semi-relatedly, I may have to take a sorta break around here, my mental health is lacking thanks to my psychs being assholes about SSI, and I’d rather step back here than meltdown and let the Borg suffer for it. I haven’t decided yet, so I’ll let you all know when I make up my mind, and this has nothing to do with you guys — you’ve been nothing but supportive. I’m just kinda a train wreck currently.
taitaisanchez, hi, welcome.
The problem everyone’s pointing out better’n I could is not so much that you, or anyone calling themselves incel, feels that they lack agency, it’s that the term and the whole thinking of the men using it denies women’s agency. Do they ever acknowledge that women might have just the same difficulties forming relationships? No, they don’t. Like you noted, they’re extremely misogynistic. They essentially look on women as vagina-gatekeepers denying them entry for no good reason.
Granted, I kind of let the intersection of sexual frustration and loss of agency be unspoken. It’s not like passing by a Nordstrom’s floods the brain with hormones designed specifically to get fabulous.
Argenti, hugs.
taitaisanchez, I like your metaphors, btw. North Korean missiles and Nordstrom’s. 🙂
Yeah, take care of yourself Argenti! I can totally understand being a wreck; SSI is an ASS. Self-care comes first!
RE: taitaisanchez
It’s not like passing by a Nordstrom’s floods the brain with hormones designed specifically to get fabulous.
Yeah, but the thing is… look, I’m a gay guy. I get the hots for other men sometimes. But I have to understand that the vast majority of men are not into men like me. They’re straight, they’re not into trans guys, whatever.
And yet, I don’t see gay men using this incel label. Mostly because they seem more worried about getting beaten to death by an angry straightbro than getting laid.
What I’m saying is, on top of what everyone else is saying… incels are EXTREMELY hetero-oriented, to the point that their faces seem wedded to their ass. The problems they describe are not ones guys like me even have the LUXURY of dealing with. Do you get what I’m saying?
Argenti – Ditto. Hugs. That sucks. In general though
kitteh – thanks. 😀 Also, in general I just had objections to the idea that it’s not a need the same way eating or shelter is and therefore it’s minor. It’s clearly somewhere in between.
Kitteh, LBT — thanks guys, I just brain dumped on the open thread if you want to talk there. It kinda triggering though, so idk.
Taitaisanchez — thanks, and did you get a Welcome Package?
Argenti – Nope! I have errands to run, but I will dig deep. I’ve been wondering what the hell scented candles had to do with misandry. *leers at the side bar* would explain why my hardcore feminist roommate stocks them. Either that or they smell nice and cover up the smell of cigarettes. Either way, I’m ok with. 😀
Also, LBT –
What I’m saying is, on top of what everyone else is saying… incels are EXTREMELY hetero-oriented, to the point that their faces seem wedded to their ass. The problems they describe are not ones guys like me even have the LUXURY of dealing with. Do you get what I’m saying?
Yeah. I’m bi and gender queer. So, I have some idea what it’s like.
I hope it’s clear i’m on board with what everyone’s saying. I’m just so so SO used to crappy terminology that I accepted the concept of “incel” with out really thinking it through. I think instead of identifying as “incel” I’ll just identify as depressed.
RE: taitaisanchez
I think instead of identifying as “incel” I’ll just identify as depressed.
That sounds way healthier, perversely.
“I’m bi and gender queer.”
Hey, me too! What do you prefer for pronouns? I use ze/zir myself (and I promise people here will respect your pronouns, this place is absolutely brimming with awesome people!)
Speak for yourself.
argenti: hugs and I totally understand about needing a break.
*dies laughing* I just offered my brother a paper bag, since he’s been wrapping stuff and would totally resort to paper bags (he’s using duct tape to seal the wrapping paper already!). Well, he comes in, let’s the cat in, picks her up, and puts her in the bag. And then walks out carrying it by the handles with her tail sticking out.
I suspect there will be Cat Anger Consequences, but that was too fucking cute!
I presume you to be the highest of fashionable, hellkell.
RE: Argenti
Back when we had presents to wrap, I used to use Sunday Comics. And I knew one very crafty family who’d invert and wash potato chip bags for wrapping paper, so they had shiny silver presents!
We do the $1 rolls, because my father spends way too much money on gifts “for my brother” that are really gifts for himself. When I was living alone I’d do paper bags or origami containers, or recycle gift bags I’d been given (the whole family does it, it’s kinda awesome)
Oh yeah, our family recycled gift bags all the time. It would be a joke to reuse particularly hideous ones. There are people who DON’T do that?
“Proper people”…aka the rich. Though all the richy richies I knew were new money, so it might be putting on airs.
That’s so bizarre. I’ve never known anybody who didn’t recycle gift bags — when they wrapped them at all! (A lot of folks I know now just hand over their gifts unwrapped.) And I thought I knew some fairly wealthy people. *spreads hands*
Now I’m curious what gift-wrapping rules are in other countries.
Taitasanchez, I am sorry you are having such difficulty. In the end it comes down to you, but I have found Reddit an excellent resource.
r/malefashionadvice if you want to try dressing with some style- and this really is the #1 factor in male attractiveness that is completely within your control. Women have it easier in this department because they have so many more resources and options… but r/mfa aggregates pretty much everything.
r/seduction if you’re just looking for straight-up advice on how to approach women.
The problem isn’t just approaching women, that I can do. That’s easy for me. They’re people. how hard is that? The issues are deeper and are best handled with a therapist and other professional help. Plus IIRC, /r/seduction is really daterapey. So, that’s immediately out.
Also, I don’t need fashion advice, that’s not the problem. I can dress myself. I mean, how hard is it to go into a shop and buy a decent blazer and some well fitted pants? Or not wear clothes that have stains on them?