NOTE: This page is in desperate need of revision and expansion. In the meantime, I suggest you use Rationalwiki’s Manosphere Glossary.
For newcomers to this blog, here’s a handy guide to some of the strange acronyms and lingo you’ll encounter here and in the “manosphere” in general. (For a definition of that term, see below.) I will update this entry periodically as needed.
First, the acronyms you’ll see most often here:
MRA: Men’s Rights Activist
MRM: Men’s Rights Movement
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way MGHOW: Man Going His Own Way.
Ok, so what do those terms mean?
MRM: The Men’s Rights Movement: A loosely defined, but largely retrograde, collection of activists and internet talkers who fight for what they see as “men’s rights.” Unlike the original Men’s Movement, which was inspired by and heavily influenced by feminism, the self-described Men’s Rights Movement is largely a reactionary movement; with few exceptions, Men’s Rights Activists (or MRAs) are pretty rabidly antifeminist, and many are frankly and sometimes proudly misogynistic. Those who oppose the MRM are generally not against men’s rights per se; they are opposed to those who’ve turned those two words into a synonym for some pretty backwards notions.
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way: As the name suggests, MGTOW is a lot like lesbian separatism, but for straight dudes. MGTOW often talk vaguely about seeking “independence” from western and/or consumer culture, and a few MGTOW try to live that sort of zen existence. But most of those who embrace the term have a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of feminists and women in general. Many MGTOW refuse to date “western women” and some try to avoid women altogether. I think the Man Going His Own Way acronym MGHOW adds another layer of confusion to an already awkward acronym, so I use MGTOWer instead.
Some other terms and acronyms you’ll run across here:
Anglosphere: Countries in which English is the primary language, or, more narrowly, those countries that used to be British colonies. They are full of evil Western Women (see below).
Incel: Involuntarily Celibate. A term, and identity, adopted by some dateless guys (as well as some women, but it’s the men we’ll focus on here). While there is nothing shameful about being dateless, or a virgin, or having a really long dry spell sexually — most of us have been there at some point — the term “involuntarily celibate” seems to suggest that the world owes incels sex, and that women who turn down incel men for dates or sex are somehow oppressing them. For those (male, straight) incels who are genuinely socially awkward or phobic, this can be a self-defeating stance that can lead to bitterness towards women. And often does.
Mangina: Derogatory term used by MRAs, MGTOW, etc. to describe guys who disagree with them — e.g., me. You can figure out the various connotations of this term yourself.
The Manosphere: The loose collection of blogs, message boards, and other sites run by and/or read by MRAs, MGTOW, and assorted friendly Pick-up Artists. The primary source of material for this blog.
NAWALT: Not All Women Are Like That. Dudes in the manosphere make so many ridiculous and untrue generalizations about women that they’ve come up with their own little acronym to describe the most common reaction to their nonsense: “not all women are like that.” Remarkably, many seem to think that making a reference to NAWALT is actually some sort of clever rebuttal of their critics.
PUA: Pick-up Artist. PUAs are obsessed with mastering what they see as the ultimate set of techniques and attitudes — known as “Game” — that will enable them to quickly seduce almost any woman they want. There is a vast literature on “game” online, though PUA (insofar as it is not complete bullshit) is at its essence simply a male version of the age-old ploy of “playing hard to get.”
Western Women: Also known as WW. Evil harpies, at least according to many in the manosphere. Contrasted with “foreign women,” a term that (in the manosphere, at least) sometimes refers to all women outside the Anglosphere, but often refers to a subset of these women from poor and/or Eastern countries, mostly Asian, who are regarded as more pliable and thus more desirable to haters of “Ameriskanks” and other WW.
“I’ve never really understood that approach anyway. When I was looking at feminism and men’s rights, I didn’t go to either side and assert that they’re foolish for whatever they’re doing, I just lurked and listened. Seems to me that people are a better source of information when they don’t know you’re looking for it.”
I made my original post in the way I did for two reasons. I wanted to get some idea of the integrity of this site’s moderator – ie is the manboobz guy on the level and open to dissenting voices or is the aim to silence dissent. Also I wanted to stir things up a bit and see what the thinking was.
I called the site silly also in the sense that how can two groups who claim they only want equality be at each other’s throats? If both groups are genuine then I think that IS silly. There should be a dialogue amongst slightly different fellow travellers. Just talk to each other you morons!
Whether Paul Elam is the woman hating maniac you say he is I don’t know yet. As I said I have never encountered him.
One thing I am sure of, irrespective of individuals and their failings, is that there is now a real need for a separate male voice distinct from feminism.
Yes I am anti-feminist and no I’m not a misogynist and yes I’m in favour of equality.
Why am I anti-feminist. Because all I hear from feminism is that masculinity is shit. If you’re male your shit and if you spawn male children they’re shit too. You may say I misunderstand feminism but if I do that’s because it has an image problem. I am getting the messages it is sending loud and clear.
I think the mens rights movement will continue to grow because of this and that men need a separate voice. Whether avoiceformen.com will be that voice only time will tell.
So thanks to the manboobz guy for letting me poke with your stuff – it’s been educational – and good luck with your anti misogyny thing. Personally I would be more comfortable with an anti gender bigotry crusade but no worries.
This really is my final flounce.
Bye.
Really? That’s your last post?
I give you 12 hours. Maybe less. I don’t like to count.
You claim to read AVfM and yet not know Elam’s attitude to women?
You’re either lying or incapable of reading for comprehension. This is a man who thinks India is a feminist paradise that oppresses teh poor menz, when it’s been identified by actual credible sources as the worst place in the world to be a woman.
What makes you assume MRAs have the slightest interest in equality? Again, either you don’t read their sites, or do and are lying, or do and are stupid, or you are, in fact, an MRA who thinks “equality” means “men own women”, which is what they’re really about.
There’s no comparison between the MRM and feminism. Fuck, those scum don’t even think women should have voting rights. They don’t think we’re people, the basic premise of feminism.
Piss off, and stick the flounce this time, you disingenous little snot. You’ll have a crinoline’s worth of them at this rate.
Great, now manboobz is infested with multiple strains of blog herpes.
“Because all I hear from feminism is that masculinity is shit. If you’re male your shit and if you spawn male children they’re shit too.”
No, if you’re shit you’re shit.
“I am getting the messages it is sending loud and clear.”
No, you quite plainly are not.
Big if. The manospherians really aren’t genuine.
PS
Nobody cares that you horribly misunderstand feminists. We say TOXIC masculinity is shit. Having to prove that you’re masculine all the time or be mocked? Telling little boys they can’t play with ponies because that is something that girls do and it is incredibly shameful to be like a girl*? Having to degrade other people to be masculine an therefore the best? That shit is awful.
Be masculine however you want. Just not in a way that harms other people.
*Negative effect of the patriarchy on men. Girls are harmed because it is “shameful” to be like us, but that doesn’t mean boys don’t wind up harmed, too.
And um, how is anti-misogyny NOT anti-gender bigotry? That’s a very telling distinction you make there. There is in fact a difference between not liking misogyny and thinking all men are shit.
Glad you’re going away.
Trolling doesn’t show you what the thinking is. Actually listening to what people say, on the other hand? That works surprisingly well.
The “Men’s Rights” movement is not genuine. Just talking to each other demonstrates this. Also just listening to them demonstrates this. Take the recent posters in Edmonton, it was entirely within their power to mirror the original “don’t be that guy” posters and focus on the problem of male rape victims. This is an issue they bring up every single time female rape victims are even mentioned, so it would make sense to do that. Instead they put up posters which deny the worth of consent, essentially advocating for rape and discouraging the reporting thereof. Now, call me crazy, but if they were genuine about wanting equality, they would’ve posted this rather than these.
This male disagrees. A male voice? Sure. Separate? Why?
Parse error. Contradictory clauses. Either attempt to understand feminism, or stop claiming to oppose it while favouring equality. You cannot favour equality while opposing equality, that is logically inconsistent.
You’re not listening to feminism if what you’re hearing is that masculinity is shit.
There was a time, fairly recently, when I believed that there was a communication problem, but I’ve seen time and time again that this is not the case. Feminists are communicating clearing. You guys aren’t bothering to listen. Most of the time you don’t even bother to parrot what’s being said at you and warp it, you just spew out the same old crap which is exactly the opposite of what’s actually being said to you.
^ See this man right here, Athywren? He is a man and I don’t think he’s shit. In fact I think he rocks.
Signed,
A Feminist
>>
<<
*hands grumpycat £20*
Good work! 😛
I think Athywren is the man among men and the awesomest dude evah.
::waits for payment::
andi: “then simply go have a look and form your own opinions.”
Do you need some smelling salts? Should I fluff the fainting couch…
I’ve been to AVFM. I formed my own opinion: a worse den of scum and villiany is hard to find.
And sweetheart, it’s not our job to get a good impression of them. It’s their job (as an “activist” website) to convince us they have merit to their arguments.
So far, no good.
All I was pointing out was that, having visited avfm, it is obviously more reasoned and there is more grown-up debate and discussion on the forum.
What’s obvious is you lack the most basic tools of critical thinking. Perhaps it’s an ideological blinkering.
The avfm people say that you are scared to debate with them because you can’t, you just make a lot of noise.
They lie. When they actually engaged in debate, they quit.
When the come here, they quit.
In short, they can’t take what they pretend to dish out.
If you have ever examined how cults work you will recognise this in an instant.
Hermn… I don’t see any yoga here, so it’s not really a cult.
It isn’t about winning an argument, it’s about learning, developing and seeking human truth.
I am not a MRA or a feminist and I will take what truth I can get from either group.
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
Oh hey! That’s really nice Kittehs, thanks! :3
Isn’t it funny how people use the term, “cult”? I’m a member of so many cults, the atheist cult, the skeptic cult, the feminist cult, the fucking bastard race traitor cult. As I was telling my friends and family, all of whom I have been isolated from because I am a member of every cult ever, it’s almost as if they’re desperate to find a pejorative that’s easy and aims to dissuade the unaligned, but doesn’t quite fall into obvious Godwin territory.
But are you a member of the Furrinati cult? ::squints suspiciously::
Oy, where’s my payment? I’ll take it in troy weight, thank you.
Does enjoying cat-a-cake and ticking fuzzy chins, and finding that claw-y thing that cats do pleasant and relaxing count as membership of the FUrrinati cult? If so… oh yes… I really miss being owned by cats. 🙁
See, grumpycat and I, we had a conspiracy contract written out in advance… if you wanted payment you should’ve negotiated before giving me your advertising. I mean… I guess I could give you 32 troy ounces of squid rings?
Squid rings, the new currency! Bitcoins are so last week. 🙂
Yup, sounds like you’re a fully paid-up* member of the Furrinati cult.
*in kitty dins, of course
Oooh, if the Furrinati do eventually take over (openly) and all payments are made in kitty dins, does that mean it will be a catipalist economy?
So you’re basing your anti-feminism on perceptions whose fallibility you already acknowledge? That makes sense.
Why don’t you reevaluate your perceptions of feminism (you’re saying it has an image problem, right?) instead of jumping to conclusions about feminism based on the “messages” you think it’s sending?
Andi, my dear boy… have you got any arguments to make, or is it going to be platitudinous claims that the MRM has valid points of an unspecified nature, which we won’t debate?
If you’ve got something to say, spit it out.
I am not attempting to win an argument with you or have my ideology compete with your ideaology. I don’t have an ideology.
Bullshit. You’ve summed it up: Anyone who has different views to feminist orthodoxy must be sidelined as a misogynist because the movers behind feminism don’t want the lower orders receiving ideas feminism can’t handle.
So, explain to us “how feminism doesn’t work long term.”
I haven’t always been anti-feminist.
Wait, I thought you were neither a feminist nor an MRA… now we learn you are an anti-feminist, which rather puts the lie to, “I wish you well, doesn’t it.
Is you’re hostile group response mainly due to the fact you think I’m a troll?
For me it’s that you were too chickenshit to post in an active thread, and rather chose to skulk the FAQ. Moral cowardice is pretty offensive, irrespective of your misogynist overtones.
Andi: Well that comment illustrates rather well what I’m trying to point out to you.
Bless you child.
But really, we were already aware that we give fools who tell us we are too dense to understand the subtleties of the MRA mind short shrift. If you think that’s news… I suspect you have other failures of cognitive rigor.
No, I wouldn’t want to defend a hate movement. Not at all, ever. I’m just trying to work out what’s really going on.
I don’t believe you. Other things you have said (that you are an anti-feminist) cause me to think you are being dishonest.
if people who are active feminists regard anyone interested in men’s rights as the enemy (I don’t think they should).
Then we are in agreement.
Well, no, because you don’t seem to give a shit that you’ve hitched your wagon to Paul Elam, who is a rape supporting, happy misogynist, who thinks violence against women (yes, even to killing them) is not merely acceptable, but a postive good for society.
Us, we think men and women are equals, and society ought to reflect that.
You, it seems, don’t.
Not that anyone here is ever going to take me seriously
Sweetcheeks, your biggest problem is that we did take you seriously. We weighed you in the balance and you were found wanting.
Cassandra: Random – what little I remember of 1977 consists of earth toned clothing and the adults being drunk a lot.
Lessee… I remember a really cool red satin shirt with bloused sleeves and long lapels, which I adored (I was a bit younger, but it was pretty stylin). Radio with more variety than modern stations, 8-track tapes, listening to M*A*S*H on the living room television, when I was supposed to be asleep, and that some parts of SNL were actually funny.
<3
…wowz. I just went for an Inspiration Wander… and lookit the moon! And the stars! And the clouds! and the time… And it's all so beautiful! I could get redressed and go out there and take some piccies… or I could curl up in bed, twist the blinds – twist the blinds then curl up – and watch the sky float by… and the sun come up in… an hour and a half? Poop.
Methinks bed, while it can still be mistaken for night. Good night!
Andi: I made my original post in the way I did for two reasons. I wanted to get some idea of the integrity of this site’s moderator – ie is the manboobz guy on the level and open to dissenting voices or is the aim to silence dissent. Also I wanted to stir things up a bit and see what the thinking was.
So you admit to being a dishonest actor. Why should we believe anything you say now?
I called the site silly also in the sense that how can two groups who claim they only want equality be at each other’s throats?
One of them is lying?
If both groups are genuine then I think that IS silly.
There is a wealth of evil covered in that if.
There should be a dialogue amongst slightly different fellow travellers. Just talk to each other you morons!
If we, and the MRM were “slightly” different, you would be right.
But we aren’t. We want women to have equal rights. They don’t. It really is that simple.
Whether Paul Elam is the woman hating maniac you say he is I don’t know yet.
But you are dead certain he’s reasonable, and “more rational than we are. Again, why should we believe anything you say?
One thing I am sure of, irrespective of individuals and their failings, is that there is now a real need for a separate male voice distinct from feminism.
Why? What is the “wrong” you see in need of redress?
Yes I am anti-feminist and no I’m not a misogynist and yes I’m in favour of equality.
These cannot all be true. It is (just barely) possible for only one of them to be false (i.e. the second) but your support for the MRM makes it dubious.
Why am I anti-feminist. Because all I hear from feminism is that masculinity is shit. If you’re male your shit and if you spawn male children they’re shit too. You may say I misunderstand feminism but if I do that’s because it has an image problem. I am getting the messages it is sending loud and clear.
Bullshit.
I’ve never gotten that message. I’m old enough to remember when Dworkin and McKinnon were big names. I remember being shocked at the idea of rape in a marriage being possible. I’m male. I’ve never felt that feminism was hostile to me as a man. It may have been hostile to the culture of masculinity I grew up with. It may have said some of what I thought were proper ways for men to act were horrid (and maybe some of them were), but that’s not what you’re saying in your delusional declarations about feminism.