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Men oppressed by women wearing tight clothes in the office, or something

Woman oppressing men in suits

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Today’s barely coherent rant comes courtesy of the Men’s Rights subreddit, on the topic of women wearing fancy outfits at work and oppressing all the men.

Under the riveting headline “Women have the burden of their appearance in the workplace myth,” an angry if somewhat confused Men’s Rights Redditor called Unhappy_Doubt_355 lets loose on all those women who complain about having to dress up fancy-like for the office while men can wear suits and no one cares. Because that gives women all the power or something.

I grew up listening to this theory, that women have to take care of their appearance all the time, which adds to the burden of their existence. It is only way more difficult, that they are forced to accept the constant flirting of men in the workplace, which is nothing less than harassment, as well as the “social expectations”, that are being forced on them.

Sounds plausible. Indeed, I need no make-up, my clothes are simpler to choose, my hair easier to take care of. I am not really being hit-upon in the office. My social expectations are not being reinforced on me verbally. But then I noticed how society functions.

It is that they need to do all these things to reap the benefits, that an avg. woman in society has, which an avg. man cannot even fathom.

And what benefits do women unlock by wearing the fancy work clothes? He doesn’t say. I guess he truly can’t fathom it.

Women don’t need to be so well-dressed in the office. They are allowed to wear simple clothes, every day the same if they want, crew-neck blouses and suits.

They don’t however.

Yeah, well, Elizabeth Holmes pretty much wore the same outfit every day when she was a CEO, and look what happened to her! 11 YEARS IN FEDERAL PRISON! Granted, there was also some massive fraud involved but still. Anyway, I’d be curious to see what happened to a woman not engaged in fraud who wore the same outfit to work every day. Somehow I’m guessing she’d hear about it.

Furthermore, they like their translucent clothes, form-fitting dresses, heels, make-up and all the other nice stuff. I kid you not, last time I was in the office, I saw the panties of both of my colleagues in 4K and one of them also had a visible bra.

Uh, what? I really need to hear the other side of this particular story because Unhappy_Doubt_355 kind of strikes me as an unreliable narrator.

They garner attention, that they claim later on that it is necessary. No it is not. It is just, that if you choose to dress like a man, you will be getting the attention of the avg. man. That is none.

I guarantee you that women dressing like men at work are going to get a lot more than “none” attention. I mean, the woman below wore a suit to work (albeit without pants), and look what happened! The whole place caught on fire.

Ok, that didn’t happen. It’s just that Midjourney doesn’t always understand prompts.

The societal expectations (which are being so incidiously differently defined, based on context) are another issue. A woman needs to be thin, beautiful, good mother, successful, rich or whatever else they claim that society enforces on them. Not really. Nobody enforces that on them. They want that, so that they enjoy the female attention. A woman might also be an adipose, she will just have the experience of a man with an average BMI and 20% fat, which is on the healthier side of the scale.

[citation needed]

It is also ignoring the fact, that a man is being born with those and opting out is kinda difficult.

Born with what? Opting out of what? What are you even talking about?

It is not easy to work in female-dominated professions (not only because of prejudice and scorn, but also because these professions seem to attack males)

Ok, he’s starting to make sense. I am constantly being attacked by nurses. Much like this.

He continues:

it is not easy to stay at home being a dad,

Well, it’s easier than being a single mom trying to raise kids while working

it is not easy “chickening out”, it is not easy having an average income.

Well, it’s not easy having an income that is, on average, less than men’s. Which is what women have, if you haven’t noticed.

But yes, apparently women are being brough at such an uncomfortable position if asked about a family plan (which I get, it can be difficult, but then again, it is not a sexist thing).

A family plan? Huh? I’m not going to get on his case for this because I have no idea what he’s talking about, and it’s probably an ESL problem.

Or women are being driven out of manly professions because they heard a dick joke, whereas men have to live in this brutal environment and not say a word.

There aren’t a lot of women who leave a profession because they heard a dick joke once. There are some women who leave a profession because of endless harassment and discrimination.

I hear your pain ladies, but all you are doing is claiming that it takes some work to gain the benefit of your advantage on men.

What “advantage on men?” You still haven’t said.

Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, most commenters thought that Unhappy_Doubt_355 made a lot of sense.

According to a commenter called, er, WeEatBabies:

Women have zero burden, they have affirmative actions for school, work.

Grants to start enterprises.

Child support, alimony, unfair family court system …

If anything was a minor burden to a woman, it would instantly disappear by laws.

And nobody cares how they dress at work.

Also, you should see the price of suits and ties, it’s far from cheap!

Iamthebackupplan disagrees with the OP, but only because he hates fat women.

If women cared about their appearance more than men, there wouldn’t be more obese women than obese men.

I don’t know how many times I’ll have to repeat this on this blog, but the rates of obesity for men and women are pretty much THE SAME, according to the CDC. Obesity isn’t a crime–at least, I hope not, because I’m obese–but if it were one, the authorities would be rounding up the same numbers of men and women. Yet somehow MRAs have come to believe that women are much fatter than men. I think they’re convinced that the existence of fat women is a crime against their boners.

IceCorrect mumbles something:

Men have the same expectations as women, but men are expected to men up, while women have privilage to complain about social expectation (even if most of them are done by other women)

amey_wemy states:

When one is used to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Which is true, of course, if applied to men, not women. As more than a few people have pointed out, it’s kind of the whole driving force behind the Men’s Rights movement in the first place: men angry that certain privileges of theirs are being slowly eroded and hallucinating that women in “form-fitting dresses” (or whatever) are stealing all the rights for themselves.

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Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

So it seems that my umbrellas are gendered male, since I get plain black umbrellas that won’t clash with other items or clothing, meaning that my one umbrella looks good with everything.

I mean, if I had colored umbrellas, then I would need many different umbrellas so that the colors would not clash with my clothing, which would be really expensive and inconvenient and oh I see where this is going.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@Alan: She could bloody well afford it and had more storage space than all of us put together in even her smallest abode. The longer we’ve had Charlie, the more I miss his mum.

@FMOx: I used to have a modesty dickie, winter-weight. It’s long gone, since I gave up being modest decades ago. I never was one for low-cut tops anyway. I did occasionally wear it as one of my layers when it was below zero. And then I moved to California. I retroactively wish I’d given it to a poor drag queen.

I must say, I had a clear/yellow one like Liz’ only cheaper, and never lost it. I also never had my overly flowery one stolen.

Now I have one that’s all-black and folds up very small, and one pointy long one in alternating red and white panels. Mostly I just get wet or stay indoors. Probably will take the red/white one to Goodwill, because of length. Would be a cute beach umbrella.

So many people here use them for their stated purpose (little shadow) any time it’s sunny. Gotta be some old Chinese lady looking for another one as she does her shopping rounds, to keep her perfect skin going on. I really should do that myself, the Chinese women have normalized that for all ethnicities here. Umbrellas for shade, masks for politeness even before Covid… my translucent self could have both of those and walk into a Mexican supermarket with my Indian neighbor and nobody’d think it was weird. And my snarky Chinese neighbor would see it as me finally getting some sense.

Huh. I should see what they might have available at the Chinese/Filipino market and the Korean one. Feeling the need for some bulgogi, anyway, and the obligatory K-pop music gets me dancing while shopping.

Petticoats and pantyhose both sucked. My East Coast office-working friends in the early 90s were so jealous when California made it illegal to require women to wear pantyhose.

Last edited 1 year ago by GSS ex-noob
Elaine the witch
Elaine the witch
1 year ago

Ot

So you guys helped me a lot when getting my mom to talk with my uncle and cousin about how sick she is. What do you guys have for me, about getting her to take a bath? Cause it’s been like 3 months and I think she’s bathed like once during that time. She doesn’t want anyone to help her. But I can’t keep letting this go on and I don’t know what to do.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@Elaine: Other than turning the garden hose on her, I got nothing. Sorry. Hugs.

Old School HTML
Old School HTML
1 year ago

@Elaine the witch , are full-body body wipes possible? My husband’s had a major skin graft on his foot after 3 surgeries to remove the cancer, so since May that’s all he’s used. He washes his (long)hair in the kitchen sink every few weeks.

In my own depresso-mode, using “makeup remover” wipes on “pits and bits” helps me a lot: I am not generating new laundry (towels) or having to make any decisions or massively change my environment. But I am less stinky and thus able to do essential errands. So that may be a way to ease into bathing: first essential stuff wipes, then everything via wipes (maybe hair separate), then a bath may be possible?

Elaine the witch
Elaine the witch
1 year ago

@old school

I’ll put in a grocery order with some adult personal cleanser and deodorant wipes. Will see if that helps.

Thanks for the advice.

Jazzlet
Jazzlet
1 year ago

Elaine does your mum have a flannel? A hot (or cold depending on the weather) flannel can be extraordinarily revitatlising, and you could ask her just to clean a flannels worth at a time. Like using the wipes it means she isn’t contemplating spending a lot of energy, but even without soap she’ll end up a lot cleaner. And yes this too is experience gained from episodes of depressiion.

I know this won’t be any consolation, but one of those groups that spend a lot of time underground to experiment on things like natural sleep cycles in the absence of light got into an argument amongst themselves. One group argued that what was important was cleaning your body, the other that cleaning your clothes was more important. So obviously being science-y types stuck in a cave with no one else to annoy they put the uestion to the test. It turned out that clean clothes made far more difference to people smelling than a clean body did. Obviously it would be better if your mum would wash, but if she won’t clean clothes will be taking a lot of the dirt and smell away when they come off at the end of the day.

Lizzie
Lizzie
1 year ago

Hi Elaine, 100% agree with Jazzlet, that if you can get her into daily clean clothes that will reduce the problem a lot. However in my experience with people in this situation, persuading them to change their clothes and underwear daily is very difficult. “They are not dirty!! This is my favourite!“ sort of issue. The time I saw it work the best was when someone introduced an identical pile of sweatshirts/pants and so was able to sneak the used ones out and actually replace them with clean identical ones every couple of days.
Would she lie on a bath towel in bed? Replacing the towel daily might be more acceptable to her than letting you change the sheets.
Getting completely undressed can be very aversive for anyone who is elderly or ill or confused – they feel very vulnerable.
It’s very tough to deal with. My best thoughts to you!

Doubles Trini Roti
Doubles Trini Roti
1 year ago

Has anyone listened to this school shooter’s sick recording? All the incel talking points are there “1920-1980 was the golden age for humanity” and he’s shooting people to save humanity even though the victims’ families might not see it that way now. And his understanding of “the working class” is that previously you had to be born into the working class and stay there and the rest of the people (men of course) could be creative and invent things but now everybody is forced to be working class because school teaches us that we need to work a job and earn money for a living and it’s all useless.

LouCPurr
LouCPurr
1 year ago

I take care of a partially paralyzed person who can’t get into the shower. My essentials:
Medline ReadyBath LUXE Antibacterial Body Cleansing Cloth Wipes Inspire Adult Wet WipesNurture No Water Rinse Free Shampoo Cap
Plus I use one of those heavy foil roasting pans for soaking feet.

Myoo
Myoo
1 year ago

@Elaine the witch
Depending on the situation, a shower chair might help. It makes it easier to shower unassisted.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@Elaine, @Myoo: D’oh! I have a shower chair myself that I got a few years ago when I had a broken ankle. I still use it when I’m tired or feeling dizzy. You just sit down on it out of the tub and scooch over and there you are. Works best with one of those shower heads that has the long hose to go everywhere. Really much safer and easier. I got it off Amazon for less than $100 and it’s really sturdy. Those are for combined tub/showers. If she only has a shower, there are stools/chairs you can get for those even cheaper.

Wipes are a great idea too. Like @Old School HTML, on my really depressed days, wipes keep me able to not stink up the joint. I have sensitive skin and use baby wipes.

@LouCPurr has it dialed in, and @Lizzie has some great ideas.

This discussion proves how much better humans we are than MRAs and incels; their random ranting groups never go into this, I bet. No support or compassion from strangers there.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@David: Could you pre-schedule a weekend open thread? Then we could chat amongst ourselves about non-asshole issues. If people aren’t up to reading about the creeps, they could still pop in there and let us know they’re still alive.

You could put the really silly Midjourney fails there, too, for everyone’s amusement. I still remember the unitusked mammoth and the trunks everywhere. And TMOTUS.

LouCPurr
LouCPurr
1 year ago

Woops, my post formatting went bad.

Medline ReadyBath LUXE Antibacterial Body Cleansing Cloth Wipes (thicker, wetter, sudsier)

Inspire Adult Wet Wipes

Nurture No Water Rinse Free Shampoo Cap

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
1 year ago

@Doubles Trini Roti

1920-1980 was the golden age for humanity” …. previously you had to be born into the working class and stay there and the rest of the people (men of course) could be creative and invent things but now everybody is forced to be working class because school teaches us that we need to work a job and earn money for a living


That’s… not even internally consistent. Did he confuse 1920-1980 with 1720-1780?

occasional reader
occasional reader
1 year ago

Hello.

About the translucent stuff, maybe he was just watching a porn movie (at work, oh bad boy !) and believed it was the reality ?
Or he is just a horrible stalker/peeping tom.

Have a nice day.

Last edited 1 year ago by occasional reader
Ada Christine
Ada Christine
1 year ago

i work in a non-traditional office environment and there’s no real dress code so i wear whatever is comfortable and suits my feelings for the day. you know what doesn’t happen? the men in my office leering at me or behaving weirdly. you know why? because they’re not weird little people fixated on women’s bodies.

also this is Europe, so there are many fewer hangups about the human body in general and a little bit of thigh isn’t as titillating as it might be in back in the States.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@Moon: Yes, I have been told by reliable sources* that there were 3 wars (1 really big) and a very serious depression in those years. And an oil crisis, and ups and downs in the economy. So not even great for the SWM unless they were filthy rich and didn’t lose it all in said depression.

*Mom and Dad, and, y’know, history, and some of it that I remember myself.

Last edited 1 year ago by GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@LouCPurr: There are also some cheaper brands of shampoo cap, I see, along with no-rinse shampoo. Either would mean she wouldn’t have to get undressed.

Nequam
Nequam
1 year ago

I suppose it was inevitable.

“Guys, is having sex with women gay?”

Last edited 1 year ago by Nequam
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

I mentioned previously this bookshop.

https://hypatia-trust.org.uk/women-in-word-bookshop

I was asked in the comments if it was trans friendly. Well I went back there today and they confirmed it was. They did offer to guide me round their selection of relevant books, but they had a dog called Eric and I got distracted playing with him.

I did find out thing that the Brontes’ mum used to live on that street; so that can be today’s new fact.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@Alan: I need to ask: did they have a licence for their pet dog Eric? I’m sure they did.

Doubles Trini Roti
Doubles Trini Roti
1 year ago

Nequam, your link isn’t working. What’s their rationale for that argument?

Nequam
Nequam
1 year ago
Last edited 1 year ago by Nequam
Doubles Trini Roti
Doubles Trini Roti
1 year ago

Fuentes can’t be for real. Is he? Seems like a professional troll.