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Indictin’ 2: Electric Boogaloo

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Just a little open thread to discuss the indictment of our terrible former president.

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opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

Um, OT with apologies but bizarre things with a legal dimension seems at least (very) tangentially apropos in this thread …

@Alan, have you come across this/is this actually a thing? I suppose judges do have form for indulging their whimsy on occasion, when feeling a bit narked? (credit to a post reblogged from a tumblr called judicial-review)

“Before proceeding further, the Court notes that this case involves two extremely likable lawyers, who have together delivered some of the most amateurish pleadings ever to cross the hallowed causeway into Galveston, an effort which leads the Court to surmise but one plausible explanation. Both attorneys have obviously entered into a secret pact complete with hats, handshakes and cryptic words to draft their pleadings entirely in crayon on the back sides of gravy-stained paper place mats, in the hope that the Court would be so charmed by their child-like efforts that their utter dearth of legal authorities in their briefing would go unnoticed. Whatever actually occurred, the Court is now faced with the daunting task of deciphering their submissions. With Big Chief tablet readied, thick black pencil in hand, and a devil-may-care, laugh-in-the-face-of-death, life-on-the-razor’s-edge sense of exhilaration, the Court begins.”

— Bradshaw v. Unity Marine Corp., Inc., 147 F. Supp. 2d 668 (S.D. Tex. 2001)

(followed by

“Despite the continued shortcomings of Plaintiff’s supplemental submission, the Court commends Plaintiff for his vastly improved choice of crayon. Brick Red is much easier on the eyes than Goldenrod, and stands out much better amidst the mustard splotched about Plaintiff’s briefing. But at the end of the day, even if you put a calico dress on it and call it Florence, a pig is still a pig.”

)
a source: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/147/668/2409194/

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Re: Trump’s lawyer

He’s this chap.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/15/trumps-save-america-paid-3-million-to-cover-top-lawyers-legal-work-00056968

Possibly unique amongst Trump lawyers in that (a) he got paid and (b) he hasn’t yet been indicted himself.

But it seems the court is worried that the case could be delayed if there’s a fall out and Trump then says he needs time to instruct a new legal team. Hence the requirement that if you sign up to this, then you’re in for the duration.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 year ago

@opposablethumbs

That reminds me of a benchslap I once read from a Prenda Law case, where the judge decided to frame all his criticisms of Prenda Law via Star Trek references. It was a delight.

For more information:

https://abovethelaw.com/2013/05/prenda-boldly-benchslapped-where-no-one-has-gone-before/

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ opposable thumbs

A lot of the time judgements are as dull as ditchwater. Judges just make their thoughts known in code. We’re just having a bit of a compilation thread on lawtwitter. But stuff like this:

Novel- you didn’t use Westlaw

Thorough- said everything twice

Concise- you knew you were doomed before you started

Remarkable- judge googled to check you were qualified during application

Realistic- effectively conceded the hopelessness of his client’s position.

Exemplary- you cited me.

Compelling – you quoted me.

Persuasive – you agreed with me

Doughty – you kept at it when the judge said you were wrong.

Brave – you told the judge they were wrong.

Courageous – you told the judge the Court of Appeal were wrong.

Helpful – I knew instantly why you should lose.

Spirited: I was close to reporting you to your Inn when you started shouting

Bold – you did tell you client about something called ‘indemnity costs’?

However sometimes judges just can’t help themselves. A chap called Gordon Exall runs a really good civil litigation blog. Mostly it’s just helpful legal stuff, but people also send in judgments like the one you referenced.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Re the flag code

Many years ago I was looking at doing the Cali Bar exams. As it happens I got invited on another course when the exams were due. That was quite a prestigious invite only thing so I said yes before they realised they’d got the wrong person.

However, when you join a US Bar you have to be sworn in, and a US flag has to be present.

As a parochial Brit I wondered if there was a way round that. Hence my digging into the flag code. It was really interesting. For example I found out that ‘the star spangled banner’ specifically relates to the 15 star version of the flag (which uniquely also has 15 stripes) and ‘old glory’ is the 48 star version.

Also, it was originally intended that on civil flags the stripes would run horizontally but on military versions they would run vertically. That was abandoned for costs reasons (all our crafters can explain why vertical stripes cost more); but the US coastguard does retain the vertical version.

But the key takeaway was that any flag that has ever been an official US flag counts; so I could go with the grand union version.

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Oh, you can also get flags that have flown over government buildings. There is a fee but it’s still cheaper than buying one from a shop.

https://www.aoc.gov/what-we-do/programs-ceremonies/capitol-flag-program

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

When Washington crossed the Delaware it was, contrary to the famous painting, a grand union flag he had with him…

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opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

@Victorious Parasol, @Alan – brilliant, I love it! (I also have a soft spot a mile wide for “VeryUnderstated-to-whatitreallymeans” translations) 🙂 🙂 🙂

Last edited 1 year ago by opposablethumbs
Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ opposable thumbs

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Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 year ago

@ Alan
TIL “doughty” is an actual adjective and not just the name of a Youtube mortician.

Also, I don’t know why the “thorough – said everything twice” delights me so much, but it does. Maybe I’ve felt that way at a doctor’s appointment.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

@Alan, the Introduction is so exquisitely understated. Mellifluous, eloquent, elegant, conveying a certain melancholy expressive of both restraint and resignation …

🤣🤣🤣💛

Last edited 1 year ago by opposablethumbs
GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

I love it when judges get clever and snarky in their rulings. The “Cocky” case of romance novel fame had some lovely wording. That case @opposible thumbs linked to is a masterpiece.

@Alan: Ah, that explains it — he’s got his money, and Cheetolini didn’t actually pay him.

Allandrel
Allandrel
1 year ago

Re: flag code violations, it is my understanding that Captain America’s costume was specifically designed to evoke the US flag without ever incorporating it – for example the chest and shield feature a single star on a blue field, not a pattern of stars, the red-and-white stripes are either vertical (torso) or actually concentric rings (shield) and in both cases not 13 in number, and so on.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@Alan: It’s giving me flag of Hawaii and East India Company vibes. Which are basically originally the same.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

I like the flag talk. It’s like “Fun With Flags” except with a bunch of nice people rather than an existential nightmare.

Thanks Allandrel for that titbit; love stuff like that.

So to keep the topic going. I think people know Betsy Ross didn’t make the original US flag. But one thing she demonstrably could do, was to fold a square of cloth in a particular way so that you could get a five pointed star with a single cut. That apparently speeded up production hence her subsequent success as a flag maker.

I’ve seen the cut demonstrated but it might as well be one of those TED logic puzzles as far as I can understand the topology involved.

Last edited 1 year ago by Alan Robertshaw
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
1 year ago

I think people know Betsy Ross didn’t make the original US flag.

What! No one tells me anything. I have to learn via the Interwebs. Even my boyfriend knew this.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

We got a small pre-lit Christmas tree for extra (easy) holiday cheer. But it didn’t have anything on the top! So the Mr. looked up how to fold/cut one out of paper, which then was reproduced in cardboard. Then covered in shiny gold Xmas wrapping paper and affixed to the tree. Properly Christmassy now. We pull it out of its box every year, straighten it up, good to go. Although obviously the presents have to go elsewhere, since there’s only 3-4 inches of clearance.

Full Metal Ox
Full Metal Ox
1 year ago

@GSS ex-noob:

We got a small pre-lit Christmas tree for extra (easy) holiday cheer. But it didn’t have anything on the top! So the Mr. looked up how to fold/cut one out of paper, which then was reproduced in cardboard. Then covered in shiny gold Xmas wrapping paper and affixed to the tree. Properly Christmassy now. We pull it out of its box every year, straighten it up, good to go. Although obviously the presents have to go elsewhere, since there’s only 3-4 inches of clearance.

Bravissimo! I recall, in grade school art class, having folded and cut snowflakes from thin, brightly colored metal sheeting with shears—meteorologically incorrect quadrilaterals, since we hadn’t the finesse to fold them into thirds and sixths.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Found a vid!

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
1 year ago

One court case that I heard about back in the 1980’s involved a (I think) California judge who was ruling on whether a guy who owned five movie theaters in a large city had an illegal monopoly there. The judge ruled no, since there was nothing to stop someone else from opening a sixth theater if they so desired. (I read about this case in an opinion column in my paper’s editorial section, so I know nothing about this case beyond what was in that column.)

Anyway, the judge was a big movie nerd, and stuffed his opinion with as many movie titles as he could and still have it make sense. From what I understand, the local lawyers had some fun playing ‘spot the movie title’ reading that thing.

Back before the Internet broke free of its government compound and went on a rampage across the world, there was a court case involving a woman who sued her military veteran neighbor because she couldn’t sleep with the constant flapping noise his flag made. Even back then folks accused her of being anti-American because of her suit (she wasn’t, she just wanted some quiet at home). The dispute was resolved when the veteran switched out his noisy nylon flag for a much quieter cotton one.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

Some US flags on military uniforms appear to be backwards.

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That’s because

(a) the flag code says the union should be in the highest position of honour. And on military vehicles that’s at the front.

(b) it’s meant to evoke battle flags, which would be flying backwards if you were advancing. So if it was the other way round it would look like you were retreating.

They also allow monochrome flags for the military.

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Full Metal O
1 year ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

They also allow monochrome flags for the military.

So as not to compromise camouflage, I’d hazard a guess. (And now I’m wondering if that particular convention is part of what lies behind the increasingly achromatic flags popular in U.S. right-wing circles, as a knowingly adopted military affectation.)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

@ FMO

Yeah.

If you look closely you can see the patches are just held on by velcro. So you can swap the regular ones for the camo ones when it becomes operationally appropriate.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
1 year ago

O/T, but just in case anyone likes uranium glass.

clever4agirl
clever4agirl
1 year ago

Ok I love uranium glass
. . .time to turn on subtitles (it’s not you I can’t hear without subtitles)
. . .am am I learning about stannary law? I have just been tricked into learning something, sonova-

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 year ago

@Alan, you do look spiffy in your official barrister garb. How extra-silly does the wig look on you and your pal’s shaved heads?

Although, shaved heads and wigs could let you officially Walk Like An Egyptian.

@clever: That’s what Alan does, secretly edumacates us gud.