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There’s an old joke. Two elderly women are at a restaurant. One of them says “The food here is terrible!” And the other replies, “And such small portions.”
In the Men’s Rights subreddit today, a guy asserts that “modern women aren’t … worth dating,” that they’re “loud, abrasive, and generally unpleasant to be around.”
And he complains that these apparently worthless–or at least worth-very-little–women don’t want to date men.
In a post on what he calls “the rising epidemic of sexless men in feminist society” a fellow called Wasteofoxyg3n lays out his, er, critique of modern dating.
“Something I’ve noticed is that with the rise of feminism, less and less men are in relationships,” he begins.
In the past, it seemed like every guy had a wife. You never heard of 30 year old permavirgins.
Actually, some 62 percent of American men between the ages of 25 and 54 are married or living with a partner. And 30-year-old “permavirgins” are rare as well; only 9 percent of those in their 30s are virgins, and that drops to 6 percent in their forties.
All of that seemed to change with the rise of feminism. Every straight guy I’ve talked to seems to struggle with dating in some capacity.
First and foremost, women’s standards have increased drastically. in the past, women would just marry some guy from her village/town/whatever. Nowadays, they have BILLIONS of men to choose from. It’s no longer about choosing a guy in spite of his flaws, but choosing a guy WITHOUT any flaws.
Think of every guy you know who is married or has a girlfriend. How many of these men are absolutely flawless?
Second, most men are too afraid to approach women. In the past, men would buy women flowers and try to woo them. Nowadays, you can’t even say hi to a woman on the street without being called a “creep” accused of harassment.
Well, maybe you can’t say hi to a woman without being accused of harassment, but for most of us men that isn’t a problem.
How tf are you supposed to meet women anymore? You can’t approach them on the street, you can’t approach them at the gym, you can’t approach them at the library, you can’t approach them ANYWHERE. Unless you’re crazy attractive, most women will display a “get away from me!” attitude towards you. The only way left is through online dating, and we all know how well that goes for men. It’s almost as if men are being forced into a system where women have all the power.
Among online dating users, according to one survey, “83% of men have met in person with someone they first talked to online.” Women are actually less likely to have met with someone in person.
And now, after all this complaining about small portions, we get to the part about how the food sucks:
Last, but not least, modern women aren’t even worth dating. I’m probably going to get some flack for this, but it’s honestly true at this point. So many men are no longer bothering with dating and are instead choosing to focus on themselves, simply because it’s not worth it anymore.
So wait, who exactly is refusing to date whom here?
As a whole, modern women have been raised by feminism to hate and fear men. I don’t think I’ve ever met an old woman who was as loud, abrasive, and generally unpleasant to be around as the women from my generation. Modern women always ask what we have to offer but never wonder what THEY have to offer.
Feminism has completely ruined dating. It’s conditioned women to no longer view [men as] human beings. I don’t want to play the part of dancing monkey, bending over backwards just to impress some woman just so she can use me for a free meal, ghost me and then make a post on the TwoX subreddit about how many “red flags” I had.
Dude, posting this to the Men’s Rights subreddit is pretty much all the red flags you need.
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I don’t think I’ve ever met an old woman who was as loud, abrasive, and generally unpleasant to be around as the women from my generation.
How many women outside your libidinal target profile have you even deigned to pay attention to? I can think of cantankerous old crones galore.
Or, y’know, you could go get involved with real-life meatspace activities that allow you to interact with women just as fellow human beings sharing worthwhile pursuits, without trying to extract dating opportunities from them as well.
And then if you happen to get to know one of those participants to the point where there’s mutual liking between you, you can try asking her for a date.
But if you’re expecting to unilaterally parlay your random interactions with female strangers into opportunities to pursue them romantically, with absolutely no indication whatsoever that they are interested in romantic opportunities with you, then yeah, you are not unreasonably going to be regarded in many cases as a harassing creep.
And finally, guys, for the Nth time: If you don’t think it’s fair that men are routinely expected to pay all the costs of a date with a stranger (and neither do I, as it happens), then either (politely) make that position clear from the get-go when issuing an invitation, or refrain from issuing invitations involving activities that cost money.
Don’t just go along with patriarchal traditions of man-pays-for-date because you think it’ll improve your chances of getting some nookie, go on the date while pretending you don’t mind shelling out the money, and then resentfully whine about the exploitative unfairness of it all if you don’t end up getting some nookie. Have the courage of your convictions for once in your life, sheesh.
I am surprised to hear that 9% of men in their 30s are supposedly virgins. That sounds like a very large percentage. Are we sure about this?
@a35362: “I am surprised to hear that 9% of men in their 30s are supposedly virgins. That sounds like a very large percentage. Are we sure about this?”
As I understand it, that number is (or recently was) applicable to the adult population worldwide. The percentage for Americans specifically is lower, according to the CDC:
Poor baby. You can’t find a woman who has no standards.
Best advice I ever heard about dating, for both men and women, as to find your passion, and then get involved in a group about it. Whether it was saving rare butterflies or the game Go, or vintage buildings, or birding (which has a very interesting range of people), or baking the best cookies or even politics. Go into it without the goal of meeting a someone for dating, just finding people who share your interests.
You will be getting to know a range of people, not at a meat-market dating pool (e.g. a bar), but people who already are your “tribe”.
Hope this makes sense, I had dental surgery yesterday…
This still happens all the time? People tend to marry those they actually have some likelihood of meeting.
My nan (before mellowing in old age) used to shout at a neighbour “I’ll have your gizzards out!” during arguments. The other tipped a whole roast dinner on my grandad’s lap when he made a poorly received joke about the cooking. If anything we’ve got more polite.
@Kimstu:
Such a shame that that requires you to have both money and time, and nobody in the working class has both anymore …
@CoveredinCatHair:
Of course, said group might only exist online, and be very geographically dispersed, depending on what that passion is …
In the past, men would buy women flowers and try to woo them. Nowadays, you can’t even say hi to a woman on the street
In the past, women generally were not dating randos they met on the street. That was not considered respectable behavior.
@Surplus to Requirements:
Well, many such activities (e.g., volunteering) don’t require spending money. But you’re right that engaging in any social/community real-world activities requires spending time. For that matter, engaging in social/community online activities also requires spending time (and usually money too, unless one has free internet access and access to a device).
There is pretty much no way for anybody to find a compatible sexual and/or romantic partner that doesn’t involve the investment of significant amounts of time in one form or another. (Except perhaps for a West Side Story-style “lightning strike” of love at first sight where both participants immediately recognize and acknowledge their mutual attraction, which is, to say the least, rare.) It’s not reasonable for MRA types to expect to shortcut that process by just immediately declaring their own unilateral attraction to random strangers that they encounter in day-to-day life.
I don’t know what the percentage of asexual men is, but I’m sure they make up a large part of that. Some portion of the rest is guys like incels, with personalities so repellent no one would have sex with them, even for pay. But I think the majority of that 9% is men just not interested in having sex that much.
Yeah, the Old Woman Who Gives No Fucks is basically a stock character by this point, I can only assume he has some kind of perceptual filter that prevents him even observing the existence of women he doesn’t find fuckable. Either that or he never sets foot outside or reads anything besides MRA screeds.
@Full Metal Ox:
“How many women outside your libidinal target profile have you even deigned to pay attention to? I can think of cantankerous old crones galore.”
Thank you, yes, so much this, especially your last line. I can name at least 10–in my family alone.
I include myself at the top of the list. Like you, I’m also a Full Metal Ox (have always liked your screen name, btw).
@FM Ox: IKR? My first thought was “He’s never met any women of a certain age, has he?”
Old women DGAF and have been loud and rude since forever. I bet Neanderthal crones of 35 yelled at everyone. We’re just tired of being shushed or told not to make a scene, and we will let you mansplainers know it. I do it all the time on behalf of younger women.
@ObSidJag: We got us a full metal ox club in here! If three counts as a club. Good year for crones, I guess.
Nowadays, they have BILLIONS of men to choose from.
In fairness, yes, there is a bit of a woman shortage: In China and India together, men outnumber women by about 70 million. Maybe these poor sods should have a closer look at what might be causing that shortage…?
Darn, I was hoping it would be about prison food.
But I did get all the way through it, rare thing these day’s …
“I don’t think I’ve ever met an old woman who was as loud, abrasive, and generally unpleasant to be around as the women from my generation.”
Well obviously, he hasn’t met THIS old woman LMFAO
@FMO
My first thought was “he very obviously never met my mother…” xD
She once yelled at a poor woman in a car standing at a red light because she got hit by washwater. Nothing could quell her wrath, even though it was quite apparent it wasn’t an attack, just the fluid being tossed around… she also will argue and make a fuss in syores, which is why I refuse to go shopping with her anymore. She also argues with my dad every night.
On topic. Yeah, ye good olde days, when women were property and their fathers decided who to date and/or marry… because, well, that’s the main reason people married back then. Also, I met quite a few guys in person who I dated over the years (and gals). Met all but two in person before dating, and one of them I met in person a few times before dating anyways. All sharrd interests with me. But if your only interest is to put your partner down, well. Tough luck, buddy.
@Ten Bears:
Darn, I was hoping it would be about prison food.
But I did get all the way through it, rare thing these day’s …
The article, or the prison food? (I was recently boggled to learn that Maruchan produces prison-exclusive ramen flavors:
https://www.theramenrater.com/2019/09/25/3293-texas-beef/
https://www.theramenrater.com/2020/03/09/3444-maruchan-ramen-noodle-soup-hot-n-spicy-vegetable-flavor-united-states/)
MRAsshole: “I fully KNOW I am not making any sense. How else can I get through to you?”
Heh, I’m in that “lucky” 6% myself (42 years old, but don’t ask me about life, the univese and everything). I’m disappointed about that fact, but not resentful, as I admit that it’s my fault for being too much of a shut-in. And in any case, right now I’m willingly staying out of the dating pool, not due to some MGTOW nonsense but because I hate my current life so much that, as far as I’m concerned, bringing a partner into it would be an act of cruelty (and I’m not interested in casual sex of any kind as an alternative).
@Reaktor, I’m over 40 and a virgin too. Though I’m not American, so I don’t think that 6% would count me.
@Reaktor, I’m over 40 and a virgin too. Though I’m not American, so I don’t think that 6% would count me.
TIL there’s prison ramen! As my great-aunt (another woman who spoke her mind) always said, “‘Spose I’m not ready to die, I learned something new!” And indeed, she loved learning little things. My brother and I would look up fun facts before she visited to see if she knew any of them. I think she said that right up till her final illness. Not super-well-educated, but endlessly curious. My grandmother (her sister) had red hair and the temper to go with it all her life. Bro and I are still scared of her and she’s been gone since the late 70s. Old Southern women do NOT take shit.
I know so many people who met/dated/married after becoming friends online through groups, mailing lists, etc. about a mutual interest that I can’t even count at this point. None of them are models, though (male or female), which is what these boys are looking for and hot women get tired of being hit on. Can’t blame them for wanting real men instead of needy boys, with similar interests, less whining, and maybe even rich or Chads.
OT: I ended a very long friendship today because I am done with her ableism.
Hi all, I know this off topic but I’m really hurting right now. I had a very good friend who over the past few months has become increasingly ableist and shaming to me.
She didn’t used to be like this but over the last several months she has implied that I’m weak for talking about my disabilities and about mental health issues. I do a lot of disability activism and work with others with disabilities to try to help make their lives better, so of course I talk about it sometimes. Of course not all the time, but sometimes yes. She accused me about a week ago of using the term PTSD lightly because only people who are diagnosed should use it. I am diagnosed. She knows that and I told her so again and she implied that I’m weak again. She doesn’t come right out and say that I’m weak of course, she’s pretty passive aggressive and so won’t do that but she keeps saying people who handle things differently are so strong. Today was the final straw when I mentioned I have an inspection for my section 8. She asked how often I have to do it and when I told her once a year, she said it was overkill. I told her their reasoning is basically to hold the landlords in check. I’m in a special section 8 program for people with disabilities and landlords will especially try to take advantage of PWD because there’s a chance some of us may not realize something is a fire hazard, etc. Then she came back with something about “well, that’s why you shouldn’t label yourself as disabled”. Ummm, excuse me? How am I supposed to get services I need as a PWD if I don’t “label myself”? Ugh… then right after the “label” comment she said she has another friend who has way worse disabilities than me, but she doesn’t talk about it, and that means she’s so strong.
I had it after that. I finally came back at her and told her in no uncertain terms to stop calling me weak, and never compare people’s disabilities. Her response to that was to gaslight me and say I lashed out and I was being mean. At that point I had had it.
She didn’t used to be like this but she’s been dating this conservative guy and I think his ways of thinking and behaving are rubbing off on her. I’m just so sad and hurt, we’ve been friends for a long time but I’m done. I’m not taking a bunch of ableist garbage and I’m not going to stop talking about my disabilities and other disability issues just to make her comfortable.
Sorry for the OT… I just had to get this out. Thanks anyone for listening