So over on Ovarit — the Redditesque hangout for TERFs — the regulars in the so-called “Gender Critical” forum were discussing the fact that trans women are still required to register for the draft in the US, as if they were men. Naturally, the “Gender Criticals” found this hilarious.
“You will never be a woman,” one of them snidely announced, addressing all trans women. “And you will never escape the clutches of Uncle Sam.”
That seems a tad mean. No one should have to register.
But then the discussion took a turn.
“Sometimes I sing ‘You will never be a woman’ to the tune of this song,” confessed another commenter.
The song she linked to was, of course, White Town’s 90s hit “Your Woman.” (The video is below if you don’t remember the tune but I think you probably do.)
“I thought I was the only one who did that lol,” wrote still another, with yet one more commenter adding “Me too” with a laughing-crying emoji.
In addition to being rather creepily obsessive, this seems not at all in keeping with the spirit of the song, a gender-bending classic written from the point of view of a woman, but sung by a man.
So I decided to ask that man — the writer/producer/singer of the song — what he thought of this, and of TERFs in general.
White Town’s Jyoti Mishra had this to say:
I am very much for trans rights and transphobes singing my song is yet more proof of how idiotic they are – ALL of that album is obsessed with gender, the construction of gender, gender as a prison and a liberation, gender as a mirage. Not just Your Woman – in The Death Of My Desire, I have a lyric that goes:
“And now the years have forced me to be a man,
I find I can’t go along with this meaningless sham.”
No Marxist can be Marxist without dismantling one of the most oppressive tools of capitalism. It’s not idpol, it’s not an adjunct, I believe it is central in cadre development as much as studying bourgeois economic theory.
Mishra is one of a select number of Marxist pop stars. (The guy from Scritti Politti was another, though he gave it up a long time ago. I’m pretty sure the guys from Gang of Four are still believers.)
Sorry for the rant but human rights for all is a basic thing I will always, ALWAYS fight for.
So, TERFs, stop singing his song! It makes you look like idiots.
But then again so does most of what you say and do.
Anyway, here’s the video for “Your Woman.”
While a one-hit wonder (so far), White Town has other songs well worth listening to. Like, for example, “Wanted.”
You can check out the official White Town FAQ here, which explains a bit more about the meaning(s) of “Your Woman.”
And you can listen to the expanded 25th anniversary version of the album “Women in Technology,” which both of the tracks above are from, on Spotify, iTunes, and various other music sites/apps.
Unless you’re a TERF, in which case you should probably find something else to listen to. Might I suggest the sound of your own farts?
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I, as a trans woman have loved this song for decades. Really glad to hear it’s as affirming as I always thought it was! I will definitely have to buy this album. “You TERFS will never get to claim this song!”
Was the Imperial March snippet their takeaway from the song?
And I’m reminded of how “My City Was Gone”, Chrissie Hynde’s lament about how her favorite Ohio hangouts had fallen to the developers, was scrubbed of those inconvenient vocals to become Rush Limbaugh’s theme song.
(Related Fun Fact: at least in 1985, an AFAB person attempting to register for Selective Service would receive Uncle Sam’s “Your material does not suit our current needs” form letter.)
@ FMO
That reminds me of Norfolk’s finest DJ.
I’m fascinated by how reactionaries always seem completely incapable of understanding what a song is about. It seems to be an almost universal trait for them.
hammerofglass
Ooooh, oooooh, I know this one. Pick me!
I would think it’s much the same process as educated intelligent people tripping over their own feet (or mindset) when interpreting the bible. I lost the link years ago but the logic still holds.
From collected data, researchers found that one of the outstanding differences between bible literalists and traditional theological students and professionals was their field of study or occupation. The arts history & languages majors/ students were perfectly comfortable with treating biblical texts as allegories, legends, poetic license, oral story telling. The maths, computing, engineering folks, otoh,were really resistant to the notion that biblical writing was anything other than (or more than) recipes or instruction manuals.
@oncewasmagnificent
Oh, that’s interesting. I wonder if it’s part of why engineers are more generally prone to woo.
… speaking here, of course, as a polytheistic tech worker who enjoys tarot.
“Most individual engineers are as sensible and reasonable as anyone, but engineers as a group have a noted tendency to pontificate on things well outside their area of expertise, to the point of actual fallacy.”
Back in ancient to medieval times engineering and philosophy overlapped. Or engineers were considered philosophers of some kind. Maybe that’s a reason why, too.
“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. Because when they do, they turn into huge assholes.”
—Probably not H. P. Lovecraft
I wonder why that would be. I would think it could also result in more empathy.
@Cyborgette Thank you! I currently have an engineer who is convinced that my cancer was caused by working at altitude and he’s encouraging me to treat it with supplements and, I think, auras. Seeing him as an example of a type should make it easier to cope with.
@Sheila
Ugh, sympathies. Ignorant people who are Just Trying To Be Helpful are the worst. And best of luck with the cancer 🙁
@ Full Metal Ox
WOW,I don’t know that song but it sounds worst then politicians using Bruce Springsteen’s ‘Born in the USA” as a campaign song
@Fabe:
WOW,I don’t know that song but it sounds worst then politicians using Bruce Springsteen’s ‘Born in the USA” as a campaign song
Then here’s a live performance for you:
@Cyborgette: What does ‘woo’ mean in this context? I don’t recall having encountered it in such use and the link sadly didn’t help me with that.
@Battering Lamb:
@Cyborgette: What does ‘woo’ mean in this context? I don’t recall having encountered it in such use and the link sadly didn’t help me with that.
My name’s not Cyborgette, but here’s RationalWiki on the definition:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo
@Sheila: Uggghhh. I have a chronic condition that isn’t fatal or as serious as any cancer, but isn’t able to be treated effectively, and I have had DECADES of people suggesting all sorts of woo. Much of which is victim blaming, all of which is unsolicited and annoying. I’ve had every supplement known to man pushed on me since the 80s, and exactly ONE of them has been helpful (a little). Many of the suggestions are outright contraindicated.
Either pretend to be deaf, or when you hit your limit, ask “Are you an oncologist?” This is SO not what you need right now, something else to sap your energy.
I hope for the best outcome possible for you. Get better soon (if possible).
@Sheila; @Cyborgette; @GSS ex-noob:
Uggghhh. I have a chronic condition that isn’t fatal or as serious as any cancer, but isn’t able to be treated effectively, and I have had DECADES of people suggesting all sorts of woo. Much of which is victim blaming, all of which is unsolicited and annoying. I’ve had every supplement known to man pushed on me since the 80s, and exactly ONE of them has been helpful (a little). Many of the suggestions are outright contraindicated.
Have I ever mentioned one of my favorite hit-and-run acts of Good Samaritanism? I was minding my own business in the library when some Doctor Fix-it decided to make my flagrant public display of arthritis his personal responsibility; he advised me to (A) eliminate nightshade plants from my diet and (B) take capsaicin supplements.
It wasn’t just the intrusive and condescending advice—it was the internal contradiction. Capsaicin is the active ingredient in chili peppers!
(Same library, different—and more persistent—Doctor Fix-it: some guy was cheerfully regaling one of the librarians with life hacks for living with one arm. He, as far as I could see, came with all the standard parts; she’d been that way for at least the five or so years l’d known her(1)—and I rather suspect a librarian would have some idea of how and where to seek desired information.
(1) I’ve never asked what happened, because it’s none of my damn business until and unless she volunteers the information. I did once call her attention to a request online for a one-armed sensitivity reader—for her to pursue or not at her own discretion.)
@oncewasmagnificent
I’m more than able to differenciate fiction from manuals as a geologist, and everything you listed falls under fiction for me. Neither did I ever meet another geologist who couldn’t differentiate. I’m also not generally sticking my nose on other people’s business. Not all are like that. Then again, religion as a whole is a fairy tale to me. That might play a role there, too.
I don’t mean to be disagreeable, & I have no doubt this entity means well.
But this particular believe being espoused & couched as Marxism?
Tells me they haven’t actually read Marx.
One of the central tenets (I believe # 17) of Marx’s “Communist Manifesto” is the holding of women as communal sexual property by The State.
Not to mention the many indignities inflicted upon the LGBT+ community by the former Workers’ Paradise.
@FMOx: Yeaaahhh… THOSE types. Exactly. That whole “forgetting capsaicin is from a nightshade” is really common. I skip nightshades because I’m either allergic to them or I just plain don’t like them. So I’m not about to put pure nightshade extract into my system, thanks.
We shall team up to be The Metal Ox Duo, and smack them with our canes. Our mission: to get busybodies to learn to STFU.
I have known and socialized with people missing an arm, and I never ask. One of them actually carried around his X-ray to show that his arm hadn’t developed in utero, and he could still wiggle the lumps that were supposed to be his fingers. Which is weird/funny to see wiggling on the smooth end of a stump just below the elbow. He used to draw a face on it and turn it into a puppet. Fun guy, had a nice wife and a couple cute kids.
When I do see someone who might need help (with anything), I ask “do you want any help?” Because even if I think they need it, or it would be quicker if they had help, they might want to plug along on their own. Need is not want.
@ jmc7r: have you read Marx? The communist manifesto does not contain such a statement as far as I can determine.
The Draft of a Communist Confession of Faith (which unlike the manifesto contains numbered articles) says:
“[Communism] will transform the relations between the sexes into a purely private matter which concerns only the persons involved and into which society has no occasion to intervene.”
@ SpecialFFrog:
It’s been a while, but yeah actually. Signet Classics edition.
What you talk about sounds fine, if true.
But there’s a world of difference between espoused values & actual practice regardless of belief system.
@ jmc7r: I’m not arguing that communist countries were paradises. I’m just saying you made a claim that the communist manifesto contained a very specific passage that seems to be entirely made up.
Did you make it up or are you just repeating things you read on dubious internet sources without verification? If the latter I’m curious as to which ones.
@jmc7r
In future, I recommend that you actually read something before expressing a firm position on what’s in it, rather than repeating fascist propaganda. I also recommend that you take your bullshit somewhere far away.
@ SpecialFFrog
It’s been something reactionaries have been going on about since forever whenever communitarian radicalism pops up. In thr Communist Manifesto, the phenomenon is explained as follows:
@ Dalillama: thanks. I kind of wondered if it related to that passage but thought no one could think it meant that. That is “Darwin said the evolution of the eye is impossible” levels of deliberate misreading.
@Dalillama: So Marx was actually dissing the bourgeois treatment of women.
I know there were a lot of communal places set up for the New Soviet Woman to get family dinner without cooking it herself, women’s social clubs, more women working at outside jobs, and so forth. Obviously it didn’t turn out great, but the idea was kinda nice. Have people paid to do domestic drudgery (probably were still women, but they got paid), freeing up New Soviet Woman to have a job, a social life, and spend more time at home with the family rather than all that cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc.
It sounds kind of nice — in theory.