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Jesse Singal is famously bad on trans issues. Is he an incel apologist, too?

A 25-year-old California incel was recently arrested and charged with hate crimes, after he allegedly sprayed women with pepper spray in a series of attacks that he filmed and put on YouTube. With the hate crime “enhancements” on top of his various felony charges, he could face up to 13 years in prison.

This gentleman, who I will not name, is not your typical incel, in that he actually went out in the world and acted out his hatred of women. While a number of incels have of course attacked and killed innocent victims, most incels simply fantasize about this sort of thing.

Indeed, over on Incels.is, the most popular incel forum, the regulars bemoaned the “Pepper Spraycel’s” arrest. It’s “ovER for saint pepperspray,” lamented one. “So fucking sad,” wrote another, “he was so based for doing what he did. It’s over for us. Time to rope.” Their only criticism? Saint Pepperspray turns out to be good looking, certainly handsome enough to score a “Becky,” so, while still a hero, he’s actually a “fakecel.”

Jesse Singal, the former New York Magazine writer turned Substacker, thinks these guys are getting a bad rap. Singal, perhaps best known for his appalling takes on trans issues, seems to be turning into some sort of incel apologist.

In a recent Substack posting, Singal roundly criticized that Center for Countering Digital Hate report on incels I also wrote about critically on Tuesday. Some of his criticisms of the report’s methodology were spot on. (I’m not going to summarize; you can go read it.) But unfortunately the whole piece was in service of a position on incels that I think is not only naïve but dangerously naïve.

To hear Singal tell it, the sorts of appalling comments I quote above — exceedingly common on Incels.is and wherever incels congregate — aren’t appalling comments for real. They are, rather “desperate, attention-grasping LARPing.” Incels are just playing at being psychopathic, violence-obsessed, woman-hating assholes to score internet points with other LARPers like them.

People say such terrible things about incels, Singal laments, but only a “very small percentage” of them are serial killers or harassers.

[M]ostly they are this sprawling sad-sack community of disaffected young men with a diversity of views on various subjects, including women. There are creepy men’s rights activist incels, but there are also more straightforwardly tragic ones, hobbled by physical or mental disabilities, who blame themselves rather than women for their shortcomings.

What on earth is he even talking about? Go on Incels.is right now. Try to find one of these “sad-sack” incels who doesn’t hate women with the very fiber of their being. Show me this alleged “diversity” of opinions. Even the much vaunted “Incels Without Hate” forum on Reddit was taken down … for containing too much hate.

Also, there are essentially zero “men’s rights activist incels,” creepy or otherwise, because MRAs at least pretend to be activists who think the world can be made better for men (in their view). Incels reject any this sort of activism out of hand as an empty “cope.” Most of them are deeply committed to the idea that nothing can get better. That’s part of what makes them so dangerous. That’s one of the reasons they, or at least that “very small percentage” of them, go out and kill people.

Singal would know this, if he knew shit about incels.

Would Singal say the same sorts of things about the vicious racists on, say, Stormfront? Would he excuse them as mostly “sad sacks” who are just “LARPing?” I rather doubt it. Why is it that only those who hate women are given these sorts of apologias?

Singal also wants us to know that incels haven’t killed all that many people, if you think about it. Sure, he breezily acknowledges, some

incels do, very rarely, commit horrific acts of violence. It’s not a nonexistent threat.

I’m sure the loved ones of those killed by incels will be glad to know that the incel killers weren’t imaginary.

But there’s a lot of danger in the world, and people aren’t always good at appropriately evaluating and triaging risks, so I think there’s always a danger that some shiny new threat will attract more attention than it should … [E]ven a liberal estimate of [the number of people killed by incels] would be dwarfed, by almost an order of magnitude, by the number of murders in Chicago in 2021 alone, and is far lower than the number of Americans who succumb to Covid every day.

Using similar logic, you could point out that even in the worst years in the 19th century, the number of lynching victims was really pretty low compared with the total black population. Why, you could ask, have people made such a big deal of this “shiny” danger?

I think people did because hate crimes are not only uniquely abhorrent but they are also acts of terrorism designed to keep the hated population “in line.” And these crimes don’t happen in a vacuum — in most cases there are countless others that commit no hate crimes but who root for those who do. That’s made explicit in those horrifying photos of public lynchings in which giant crowds of white people surround the body of the victim with huge grins on their faces.

You get a similar response on the Incels.is forum every time an incel kills. And for every incel who posts about murder there are innumerable “lurkers” in the forums who agree but don’t speak up. One of the scariest things about he flawed but still useful Center for Countering Digital Hate report was that it showed just how disturbingly popular Incels.is has become, with some 17,000 members (including 4000 who actually post on the site) and 2.6 million visits a month.

All that is enough to keep me worrying about them. It would be nice if I could, like Singal, blithely dismiss everything posted to that site as inconsequential LARPing. But it’s not LARPing, and it’s not inconsequential.

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Love Is All We Need
Love Is All We Need
2 years ago

@ Raging Bee, “When apologists like Signal talk about the small number of people actually KILLED by some group of haters or terrorist-wannabees, they’re trying to get us to ignore the far broader and deeper effect of the movement, and mindset, that encourages the killers.”

Yes. See here:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/brother-far-gone-male-influencers-110104711.html

And here:

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

I see that in addition to our lovely, sweet Elaine you have here also “Tyrant Bitch”

Elaine IS lovely and sweet…and brilliant and beautiful and creative and caring. Not the thing who wrote that comment could understand.

And the blog’s author doesn’t “have” me. NO damn man “has” me. I have men. Of my choosing.

I like this blog so I comment here sometimes.

Jazzlet
Jazzlet
2 years ago

Don’t you just love it when some guy joins a commennt section, talks a load of trash and then tries to get some of the long time commenters in trouble? /s

Not that he will succeed, but damn talk about misreading the room.

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding something here, but it almost seems like Lard has a point. (Damn…)

This makes the so-called disclaimer below bullshit.

Disclaimer: I am most definitely not trying to be an incel apologist here. 

This infuriates me!

Edit: Just noticed I missed your second post. I guess I seized on “celibate men” as a rather wide net and didn’t pick up that you were focusing on manosphere type guys who are actually members of a given online community?

Blah blah blah, the tone of this reminds me of the entitled, complain-y backpedalling commentary that my assistant gets from entitled jerks who get all fascinated but don’t meet my standards. I loathe that attitude with all my divine fury.

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

@Jazzlet

Don’t you just love it when some guy joins a commennt section, talks a load of trash and then tries to get some of the long time commenters in trouble? /s

Not that he will succeed, but damn talk about misreading the room.

Hah, exactly, good point.

My long-sought new guy that my assistant just finished training is coming next Wednesday to worship at my altar, whixh excites me incredibly so just to upset trolls like Lard more I’m going to tell my assistant to be extra insulting wheh she dismisses the next applicant who I deem unacceptable.

Last edited 2 years ago by TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
.45
.45
2 years ago

@ Love Is All We Need

At the risk of backpedaling, my apologies for any offense I might have caused

Elaine the witch
Elaine the witch
2 years ago

Oh lard, am I not sweet and lovely enough for you? Am I not feminine and lady like enough? You can suck the fattest part of my ass and forever step on legos. I’m throwing out real solutions but you apparently don’t care about incels enough to make them no longer incels. Maybe you should just shut up

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

@Elaine

I love your wrath. It’s inspiring. So is your power.

Elaine the witch
Elaine the witch
2 years ago

@ gss

Your on to something. You shouldn’t knock it till you try it, asexuals and lesbians have heard that argument forever.

Tbh though I’m so bisexual I really don’t understand straight people or gay people. I can’t wrap my head around being attentive to only one set of people. But that’s okay. I don’t have to understand it. People are able to choose for themselves what’s right.

Elaine the witch
Elaine the witch
2 years ago

@stacy

The good Lord decided that my dog had to die but people like lard get to keep on living and I’m going to make it that dumbass’s problem.

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

@Elaine

I am so sorry for your loss and offer my very sincere condolences

Ada Christine
Ada Christine
2 years ago

@Tyrant Bitch Goddess

you accept female applicants for worshiper?

Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse
Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse
2 years ago

I’m sorry I missed replying, but I’m so sorry for your loss Elaine

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

@Ada Christine

Yes, sometimes but my being mostly het makes our relationship a little different than with my men worshippers. Like this isn’t the most typical example but is one example: my assistant is sometimes my friend and sister-goddess but the relationship is still hierarchical overall and she still recognizes my divinity and does devotional rituals of worship to me, and there are times when she has protocol obligations towards me.

Love Is All We Need
Love Is All We Need
2 years ago

This just in from Youtube. A raging debate in the Incel Multiverse: “Ricecel VS Currycel”. (And Chang = Asian Chad but isn’t Chang a LAST name?) And MiddleEasterncels don’t get their own Foodcel moniker (Falafelcel? Hummuscel?)

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 years ago

@David: Along with being a rather run of the mill troll, Lard has just personally insulted both Elaine and the Goddess Stacey. Long past time for him to go away from here and back to incel-land.

(If need be, Elaine and I could perhaps use some of Stacey’s discarded gear to whip him out of here. Or support Stacey from 3 steps behind as she does it.)

@All We Need Is Love: You can’t expect incels to understand something as complicated as a naming convention that’s opposite to their own. If someone says his name is “Chang Wei”, obviously that must mean Chang is his personal given name, because that’s how White Republican Jesus decreed it.

Also, if the East Asian and South Asian men are so bad at getting women, why are there SO MANY of them? 18% of all the people in the world are Chinese, 17% are Indian. Someone’s gettin’ it if 35% of the world falls into those categories, never mind the surrounding countries.

Love Is All We Need
Love Is All We Need
2 years ago

GSS ex Noob, the video is talking about S and SE Asian men’s experiences here in the States.

OK, so I found a number of recent articles written about Incels and what to do about them. The “Bringing Incels Back In” section of this one is curious, if not controversial. What about girls and women who are just as rejected and lonely? Seems we’re going to have to bend over backwards for male incels because they are unable to be humble about their circumstances and endure them without wishing or causing violence against others like women are somehow able to manage. So women suffer in silence and nobody pays any mind while the world has to scramble to make sure male incels are “brought back in” and coddled so they don’t blow up the world.

https://gnet-research.org/2022/08/15/understanding-the-incel-experience-online/

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
2 years ago

@GSS ex-noob:

Also, if the East Asian and South Asian men are so bad at getting women, why are there SO MANY of them? 18% of all the people in the world are Chinese, 17% are Indian. Someone’s gettin’ it if 35% of the world falls into those categories, never mind the surrounding countries.

Ah, but when incels talk about “getting women”, they don’t actually mean women. They mean tall, statuesque, pale-skinned blonde supermodels, or at least someone who could be a serious candidate for being on the cover of Vogue one day. Women who can serve in the role of status trophies, in other words.

And then the source of the problem is obvious, since those are maybe 0.1% of the world’s women, being fought over by 4 billion men …

Old School HTML
Old School HTML
2 years ago

@TyrantBitchGoddessStacey – Glad to see you back! I left mundane dayjobland in part so I can figure out how to monetize my “magical” nature/personae — not quite as strict as your worship services, but there’s perhaps some overlap? (How are your wings working? I’d love to at least see sketches of your space & gear.)

If @DavidFutrelle would be willing to facilitate it, I am cool with him sharing my contact info to facilitate future discussion.

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

@GSS ex-noob

If this was in-person, it wouldn’t be discarded gear; we’d get you done up fully to your tastes. If you haven’t handled a real whip of any kind before we might just give you a lunge whip, just to carry as a threatening-looking token of office. Then again when wanker idiots like this actually see living goddesses like us in full regalia in person they are so stunned they just gape and stammer and usually do get the fuck away and stay away with one screamed, enraged command. They can’t handle that some of us live the reality of what they grossly and creepily hear about or see online in their gross incel basements. And they can never imagine that we’d have to spend a day doing set up even just for the 5-second dramatic entrance I just described.

Oh, if that was in person I’d make sure you had a hot guy of mine to borrow, if you wanted, as obedient handsome escort and/or motive power for whatever regal little chariot we could have someone build (which honestly would take 4 months in reality, but why not?)

Full Metal Ox
Full Metal Ox
2 years ago

@Love Is All We Need
 
This just in from Youtube. A raging debate in the Incel Multiverse: “Ricecel VS Currycel”. (And Chang = Asian Chad but isn’t Chang a LAST name?) 

I would’ve thought “Wang” as a term for an East Asian Chad (because one possible meaning is “king”—although that’s asking for too much cultural homework—and because of the obvious phallic pun.)

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 years ago

@Goddess Stacey: I would be honored to borrow a handsome male helper. I can handle a small whip or one of those short handles with several strands, which I can’t remember the name of. Slap that against my glove and look murderous. Black suede, please, and no stilettos since I have 2 bad ankles. I can do my own ordering, and have quite good yelling thanks to theater training sans microphones. The echo of my yell will bounce back at about the same time the incel gets to the exit.

I literally heard a (respectful) man’s neck crack as he spun to face me in my full gear, and he immediately knelt, so I shouldn’t be a disappointment.

@FMOx: Nah, you know what White incels think about the size of Asian men’s, er, wangs.

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

@GSS ex-noob

All this is why I love you!

I would be honored to borrow a handsome male helper.

You could use him as a helper if you wanted, but to me, as gorgeous as their handsome selves are, they are in a position that’s far more subordinate than just helper.

I can handle a small whip or one of those short handles with several strands, which I can’t remember the name of.

Some kind of flogger? We could get you so divinely awesome-looking.

Slap that against my glove and look murderous. Black suede, please, and no stilettos since I have 2 bad ankles.

You work that style! If it’s from your heart that’s what matters.

I can do my own ordering, and have quite good yelling thanks to theater training sans microphones. The echo of my yell will bounce back at about the same time the incel gets to the exit.

This is why I like you.

I literally heard a (respectful) man’s neck crack as he spun to face me in my full gear, and he immediately knelt, so I shouldn’t be a disappointment.

Was he hot? Did you feel hot? Did you both feel awesome? Was the energy of your power radiant and multi-verse resonant? That last part is the most important.

Love you so much!

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
2 years ago

I can handle a small whip or one of those short handles with several strands, which I can’t remember the name of.

Cat o’ nine tails.

The echo of my yell will bounce back at about the same time the incel gets to the exit.

A Mach 0.5 incel. That’d be a sight to see. Or is that echo bouncing back from some much farther distance, e.g. in the Alps?

Lard
Lard
2 years ago

@GSS
I personally ofended them?! You are pathetic and just evil. Elaine called me “dumbass” and expressed sadness that people like me (which means anyone who disagree with her on the internet) are alive while her dumb dog died.
Stacy is quite obvious incel troll (look at her name) making fun of feminsts.