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Jesse Singal is famously bad on trans issues. Is he an incel apologist, too?

A 25-year-old California incel was recently arrested and charged with hate crimes, after he allegedly sprayed women with pepper spray in a series of attacks that he filmed and put on YouTube. With the hate crime “enhancements” on top of his various felony charges, he could face up to 13 years in prison.

This gentleman, who I will not name, is not your typical incel, in that he actually went out in the world and acted out his hatred of women. While a number of incels have of course attacked and killed innocent victims, most incels simply fantasize about this sort of thing.

Indeed, over on Incels.is, the most popular incel forum, the regulars bemoaned the “Pepper Spraycel’s” arrest. It’s “ovER for saint pepperspray,” lamented one. “So fucking sad,” wrote another, “he was so based for doing what he did. It’s over for us. Time to rope.” Their only criticism? Saint Pepperspray turns out to be good looking, certainly handsome enough to score a “Becky,” so, while still a hero, he’s actually a “fakecel.”

Jesse Singal, the former New York Magazine writer turned Substacker, thinks these guys are getting a bad rap. Singal, perhaps best known for his appalling takes on trans issues, seems to be turning into some sort of incel apologist.

In a recent Substack posting, Singal roundly criticized that Center for Countering Digital Hate report on incels I also wrote about critically on Tuesday. Some of his criticisms of the report’s methodology were spot on. (I’m not going to summarize; you can go read it.) But unfortunately the whole piece was in service of a position on incels that I think is not only naïve but dangerously naïve.

To hear Singal tell it, the sorts of appalling comments I quote above — exceedingly common on Incels.is and wherever incels congregate — aren’t appalling comments for real. They are, rather “desperate, attention-grasping LARPing.” Incels are just playing at being psychopathic, violence-obsessed, woman-hating assholes to score internet points with other LARPers like them.

People say such terrible things about incels, Singal laments, but only a “very small percentage” of them are serial killers or harassers.

[M]ostly they are this sprawling sad-sack community of disaffected young men with a diversity of views on various subjects, including women. There are creepy men’s rights activist incels, but there are also more straightforwardly tragic ones, hobbled by physical or mental disabilities, who blame themselves rather than women for their shortcomings.

What on earth is he even talking about? Go on Incels.is right now. Try to find one of these “sad-sack” incels who doesn’t hate women with the very fiber of their being. Show me this alleged “diversity” of opinions. Even the much vaunted “Incels Without Hate” forum on Reddit was taken down … for containing too much hate.

Also, there are essentially zero “men’s rights activist incels,” creepy or otherwise, because MRAs at least pretend to be activists who think the world can be made better for men (in their view). Incels reject any this sort of activism out of hand as an empty “cope.” Most of them are deeply committed to the idea that nothing can get better. That’s part of what makes them so dangerous. That’s one of the reasons they, or at least that “very small percentage” of them, go out and kill people.

Singal would know this, if he knew shit about incels.

Would Singal say the same sorts of things about the vicious racists on, say, Stormfront? Would he excuse them as mostly “sad sacks” who are just “LARPing?” I rather doubt it. Why is it that only those who hate women are given these sorts of apologias?

Singal also wants us to know that incels haven’t killed all that many people, if you think about it. Sure, he breezily acknowledges, some

incels do, very rarely, commit horrific acts of violence. It’s not a nonexistent threat.

I’m sure the loved ones of those killed by incels will be glad to know that the incel killers weren’t imaginary.

But there’s a lot of danger in the world, and people aren’t always good at appropriately evaluating and triaging risks, so I think there’s always a danger that some shiny new threat will attract more attention than it should … [E]ven a liberal estimate of [the number of people killed by incels] would be dwarfed, by almost an order of magnitude, by the number of murders in Chicago in 2021 alone, and is far lower than the number of Americans who succumb to Covid every day.

Using similar logic, you could point out that even in the worst years in the 19th century, the number of lynching victims was really pretty low compared with the total black population. Why, you could ask, have people made such a big deal of this “shiny” danger?

I think people did because hate crimes are not only uniquely abhorrent but they are also acts of terrorism designed to keep the hated population “in line.” And these crimes don’t happen in a vacuum — in most cases there are countless others that commit no hate crimes but who root for those who do. That’s made explicit in those horrifying photos of public lynchings in which giant crowds of white people surround the body of the victim with huge grins on their faces.

You get a similar response on the Incels.is forum every time an incel kills. And for every incel who posts about murder there are innumerable “lurkers” in the forums who agree but don’t speak up. One of the scariest things about he flawed but still useful Center for Countering Digital Hate report was that it showed just how disturbingly popular Incels.is has become, with some 17,000 members (including 4000 who actually post on the site) and 2.6 million visits a month.

All that is enough to keep me worrying about them. It would be nice if I could, like Singal, blithely dismiss everything posted to that site as inconsequential LARPing. But it’s not LARPing, and it’s not inconsequential.

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ lard

Please don’t disparage departed animals. That poor hound has done nothing to you.

.45
.45
2 years ago

Just like Tinder. The ultimate sin for a troll on WHTM is being boring and predictable

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

Creepy gross incel Lard is upset that a Goddess like me exists and rules over tall, sexy gorgeous men that I choose! I love it so much when an incel is upset! I hope creepy gross incel Lard just keeps thinking about the fact that I definitely judge cis men by appearance. I don’t care how “nice” a cis man is or how much he thinks he “built civilization” (such bullshit) or whatever else makes him think he is just supposed to get whatever he wants. If he’s not tall, handsome and with a ripped body I don’t care about his existence.

Gross creepy Lard thinks not only I’m a troll but that I am making fun of feminists? I live my own style of radical sex-positive feminism. So what if some other feminists like me and some don’t. Not all feminists agree with each other. Fucking Feninism 101, idiot.

Creepy gross incel Lard can’t handle my name. I’m a tyrannical about rejecting in as harsh and bitchy and dramatic a way that I can men who don’t meet my exacting standards of attractiveness as a way of making a fucking living artistic statement.

So Fucking deal with it creep. I hope all the entitled rejects cry.

NOW GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY PRESENCE!!!!

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Lard arrived to this site with the same sort of disparagement he complains of.

He has no place to complain but still does.

Raging Bee
Raging Bee
2 years ago

“Rice-cel vs. curry-cel — which has it worse in dating?” As if any white-cels care about either of those two groups…

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
2 years ago

@Lard: Your bad faith is not as well-disguised as you seem to think it is.

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

He has no place to complain but still does.

That’s how it always is.

It’s definitely the case with the gross unattractive men under 6′ tall who dare to think I should have anything to do with them. I know that from experience. I just want cis men who aren’t tall enough to be attractive to be far away enough that I don’t have to deal with them, though if they are still aware of my reason for rejection then that’s good. Same with cis men with ab muscles that aren’t up to my standards.

Incels are despicable, but I don’t want to be distracted from receiving the worship of the men whose bodies I choose. So I’m going to go get an outfit ready and work on a set-up for Wednesday. And just to make incels mad, I’m going to purposely be even more outrageous in my level of bitchiness when it comes to rejecting unsuitable and unattractive gross creeps who don’t have a body up to my standards and who aren’t tall enough.

Jazzlet
Jazzlet
2 years ago

@ Lard

Dissing Elaine’s dog is plain nasty.

I don’t think you understand anything about evil if you think that anything anyone on here has said to you is “evil”.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

@TyrantBitchGoddessStacey

I know we’ve had this discussion before, but for the benefit of others I’m revisiting a couple of points. Mr. Parasol is 6 ft 5, but he is not ripped in the way you’d want your worshippers to be ripped. Since Mr. Parasol will not be in your presence, this is not a big deal. Add on the fact that he’s mine and therefore would never be available for your consideration, and you not only respect that but have told me that you are happy that we’re happy … we’re cool.

See, folks? I don’t insist that Stacey admire my husband. Frankly, I don’t insist that anybody admire my husband, in part because he gets all cutely embarrassed when I tell people how great he is. All that matters to him is that I love him truly, madly, deeply; and (to paraphrase our wedding vows) that we will hold to each other until the gates of death.

TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

@Victorious Parasol

Exactly. If he wasn’t yours and it was even an issue, which it’s obviously not, then yes, ***because of this***:

he is not ripped in the way you’d want

I would be livid at the thought of him being in my presence. Let me be absolutely clear about that. YES, it’s because he’s a man and therefore no matter what else my first judgement is 100% based on appearance. (Haha, incels and NiceGuys!
Don’t like that? My conventional attractiveness and my whip together are my answer.) Let me also be absolutely clear that all that is completely fucking irrelevant for the reasons you, VickyP, say. Your relationship sounds beautiful and I wish you only happiness always with him. The whole fucking point is women’s choices. So light and love to you in your beautiful relationship.

Creepy incels can still run away in fear of me and if they think I’m mean then GOOD.

Last edited 2 years ago by TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

Ah, Lard in banned. I was going to say thank you at least for apologising for the dog comment.

In other news, and perhaps to lighten the mood, there’s a case in the US at the moment. It’s about whether parody is protected speech. The Onion have put in an Amicus brief. Hats off to their lawyers. Assuming the judge doesn’t throw them in gaol.

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TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
TyrantBitchGoddessStacey
2 years ago

Lard is banned by popular demand, and frankly I would have banned him just for the dog thing (I deleted his comment).

That was despicable and he deserved it for that.

His apology was bullshit! He gave it to another man only and not to Elaine and to the sweet animal and her/his spirit itself!

I hope he’s miserable and I’m so glad that I upset him.

Elaine the witch
Elaine the witch
2 years ago

What the fuck did lard say about my dog

Elaine the witch
Elaine the witch
2 years ago

Oh no I called the person who wants to suck incel dick without sucking incel dick a dumbass. How horrible of me

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 years ago

Aw, another lying incel got bounced from here. I hope his pwecious fee-fees are hurt.

He is not worthy of being seen by Goddess Tracey. Or any woman, really.

But still he’s going to wonder why no women will give him the time of day. Because you’re an asshole, asshole. Most men probably don’t like him either.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 years ago

@Stacey: Perhaps some day I can get properly set up by your Goddess self. And I will of course treat one of your men as he deserves. I do have my own over-the-knees black suede boots, with low heels.

Yes, Mr. Neckcrack was attractive and younger than I and I felt like I was walking on air the rest of the night.

When I was young I wanted to grow up to be Emma Peel. Alas, I didn’t manage it.