So over on the Men’s Rights subreddit today there’s a dude completely losing it over the issue of … tipping waitresses. Seems that these women, especially the younger ones, sometimes see a big tip from an older guy as a sign that the tipper has feelings for them (in his pants) and sometimes this kind of creeps them out.
Somehow this makes our Men’s Rights Redditor so mad that he’s decided not to tip women any more.
Starski09’s rant is just a teensy bit confusing, so let’s see if I can explain it a little more clearly than he manages to.
It starts with him reading about a little experiment some women on Tik Tok conducted in which they went to work wearing pigtails to see if this increased the amount of tips they got. And it did. Women discussing the experiment on the 2XChromosomes subreddit found this a bit gross, as it suggested that the men tipping the pigtailed women not only were sexualizing them, but were also responding to a hairstyle that made them look younger, even childlike. The women of 2X found this more than a little bit icky.
Starski09 was having none of it. What if the men weren’t sexualizing the pigtailed women, but just trying to help out, as nice older men sometimes do.
I scrolled through and read hundreds of the comments, not one of them mentioned the possibility that pigtails make women look a lot younger and that it could be men see you as young, vulnerable and men want to help you start your life.
Yeah, because sugar daddy fantasies aren’t, like, even grosser than plain old fashioned lust.
Starski09 concludes from this experiment that the men aren’t sexualizing the pigtailed women; it is the women themselves who are sexualizing the situation, both at work and in the discussion on 2X.
No longer is asking someone out on a date or asking for their number means we want the sex. Now just tipping someone has sexual motivation, tipping a young woman or even teen will be sexualized by them. I’ve seen this more and more in my real life the older I’ve gotten, anything men do is sexual while woman can say and do as they please.
So he concludes from all this nonsense that he no longer needs to tip women at all. As he puts it in his title,
we don’t have to tip women anymore and we should completely stop helping any women outside our personal lives, with anything. Women will sexualize anything and everything they can just so they can be offended by it.
Indeed, he complains, women sexualize him all the time. Especially when they give him advice on how to look his best.
I’ve had women tell me what to do and what not to do my whole life. So many women have told me how unattractive and ugly my beard is, how they don’t like it being multi colored and it’s not full enough.
So these women are doing him a little favor by letting him know his beard is shit and he would look better without it. So he just continues growing his beard harder.
I grew it out for years in spite of all the comments I got, no matter how well I kept it trimmed I still got looks on the daily and was treated like a creep for my bad genes.
So you can’t grow a decent beard. Fucking learn to live with it.
If I was a woman going against the grain I would be hailed as a hero and badass for fighting the patriarchy.
Yes, women are often hailed for dressing badly and having crap hairdos.
I’ve been told by women not to wear certain clothes, not to grow out my hair because I look like a child, not to wear certain hairstyles because they don’t look good,
Is it possible they’re, you know, right and he’s a badly dressed baby-faced man with a crappy beard? And they just want him to know so he can upgrade his appearance?
I mean, when women tell me I really need to get a haircut it’s because I really need to get a haircut.
these are all examples of sexualizing a man, telling him he needs to look good for you to take him serious, find him attractive or not be a creep.
I’m not sure telling a guy he looks like shit is really the best way to start flirting with him.
Women don’t understand what men go through their whole lives, how hard we have to try not to be seen as a creep or even a pedophile, how we are constantly sexualized by women openly. Some try it but they often times kill themselves because they weren’t raised into our lifestyle.
What the fuck are you even talking about.
So it is time to fight back by not going out of our way to help them, financial withholding is a good non aggressive way to do so. Let women pick up the tab and support their own.
Plenty of women are happy to pick up the tab.
But of course I’m going to state exactly why I won’t tip them so they know I’m not just a cheap skate,
Yeah, that’ll go well.
mostly going to find way to avoid bringing them my business all together, time to find a barber for starts!
Get him to shave off your shitty beard while he’s at it.
My go to responses are going to be, Sorry, I can’t tip you because of the possible implications and I don’t want to sexualize you by tipping you, have a good day! It’s sad because I always tipped women well and now I’m seeing what all those weird looks were and why they barely ever said thanks.
Women weren’t giving you weird looks because you tipped too much. They could probably sense that you’re so stuffed with weird resentments of women that you would literally go to the Men’s Rights subreddit to lead a crusade of men not tipping their waitresses.
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OK, I do think one shouldn’t tell another person what to do with their hair or beard unless they’ve asked you for advice on the matter.
Everything else this guy says is a variant on “OH, SO I GUESS I’M NOT ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING TO WOMEN AT ALL, HUH?!” There’s a poem on this topic.
Giving that Mr. No-tipping-women mentioned going to find a barber, I wonder if the women giving him grooming advice were the service professionals cutting his hair.
@big titty demon
Sorry. I’m a dance teacher. I teach ballet
This smacks of “yucking someone else’s yum”. It’s definitely not my thing (nor do I pretend to understand all the dynamics at play), but these types of arrangements can apparently work out well for both parties if they go into it with realistic expectations, i.e. an understanding that it is a transactional relationship.
Moreover, I imagine the “actual sugar daddy” demographic and the “old creep leering at servers” demographic don’t have as much overlap as you might think they do.
I don’t know every other Canadian. I tried, but they just keep making new ones. It’s impossible to keep up.
@John
I can’t speak for all cases, but from what I’ve seen from sex workers and/or people proximate to sex work, most “sugar daddy relationships” are just… sex work. Often survival sex work, with all the dangers and dubious consent that entails.
@cyborgette
That’s what I meant by “transactional”, yes. I’m not claiming any expertise in this area, fwiw.
@Moon Custafer:
There’s a poem on this topic.
Don’t expect to see Bonnie in your circle of pals at the local bar any more.
You knew her as Bubba.
@John:
I don’t know every other Canadian. I tried, but they just keep making new ones. It’s impossible to keep up.
Ah, yes—one grievance in the legendary Molson’s Beer Litany:
@Moon: I love that poem and have since it was published. But I love all her work.
Are “old creeps leering at servers” just the guys who aren’t rich enough to be sugar daddies?
Allergy and other things update:
At least I’ve mostly got my old stamina back. Managed a 10 km or so walk today. Adding an air purifier in the living room and cleaning a reusable air filter in the bedroom A/C unit may have helped there.
Still socially isolated though.
Seems as good a place as any to post this.
The MAGA crowd have all been celebrating today. Trump has been victorious in his case against the DOJ.
Well, insofar as the judge has granted his request that he be allowed 40 pages to submit his motion instead of the usual 25. The DOJ didn’t object to the application.
But that’s as good as an acquittal right?
Trump is being, as he points out himself, very reasonable on the back of this. He’s not even suggesting he should be restored as president; just that the election should be re-run.
Now the lamestream media is reporting that Trump’s twitter alternative is about to go under because he hasn’t been paying his bills.
That’s just the sort of fake news you can expect from far left news organisations like Fox.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/trump-social-media-app-facing-financial-fallout
@Alan:
Thing is, Fox’s business news side has always been far more reality-based than their political ‘news’ side (which isn’t exactly a high bar), and particularly their opinion/talk-show side which is actively trying to build their own reality bubble. The people who pay the bills need to know what’s really going on, after all.
This has obviously led to some internal dissent at Fox when their news people and their opinion people end up contradicting each other over the course of a day.
@Elaine
I mean I realise you may be in a bad position with a boss* that won’t support you and you may not be able to afford to change jobs right now, but… consider making the problem known to your boss, with someone else present for moral support if you need. Or look around for another job. That’s seriously bad if people are regularly just coming up to you and making graphic comments and there’s no way you can at minimum “fire a customer”.
*I am assuming you are at a studio, if you’re a private dance teacher… I don’t know how to handle consistent harassment like that, to be honest, without formal structures. You can’t get rid of every client. That’s one reason why I went into union organizing, so there would be such structures. Maybe someone else will have good tactics?
I occasionally wonder if AG Merrick Garland has a small team whose job it is to brainstorm all the far-out things Trump might try and how to deal with them. This is in addition to whatever team (or teams) are currently in place to deal with all the usual things that Trump’s legal team might try.
@ Vicky P
There’s an axiom in combat that skilled professionals aren’t the danger; it’s incompetent amateurs.
They’ll do something no rational person would; so you can’t prepare to defend against it.
A common piece of advice I give to clients up against unrepresented opponents is that they should say to the other side that they can pick whatever lawyer they want, and my client will pay the tab for them to get legal advice. It just makes things so much simpler, and cheaper in the long run.
The irony with Trump’s filing is that what he’s actually asking for is neither unreasonable nor unprecedented.
But instead of making a proper application, he has used the opportunity to push his narrative. His statement starts back in 2016 with the FBI’s attempt to rig the election, and their success in doing so in 2020. But he’s playing to his gallery. And if he succeeds on the application he can say it’s a finding his assertions have been proven.
Hence why the judge said go away and re-apply on actual legal grounds.
The fact he wants extra pages for an application that could legitimately be done on a few sides of A4 does not bode well in that regard.
@Alan
My fencing teacher said much the same thing on a regular basis.
@Alan, Victorious Parasol:
To quote Mark Twain:
From A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court, 1889.
I actually used that quote, or at least the first part of it, in a story I was writing where I was doing a heist movie scenario; the point it was being used for is that professionals tend to be more predictable. The person this was being quoted at pointed out that they were professional burglars, so shouldn’t that work in both directions? “Oh, yes, but our big advantage there is that they have to protect against every possible plan; we only need to succeed with one.”
@Alan Robertshaw; @Victorious Parasol; @Jenora Feuer:
This was the most dangerous screen fight Basil Rathbone—an Olympic-class fencer in real life—ever took part in, versus Danny Kaye in The Court Jester:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG0JF_5APzo
(Which affords me a cue to lament that Hollywood denied Rathbone the gift-wrapped opportunity to win a cinematic swordfight—fencing has canonically been part of Sherlock Holmes’ skillset from the books onward.)
@ jenora, Vicky P, & full metal ox
I guess the principle applies at all levels. Hence the intelligence thing that you should not conflate intention and capability. Don’t plan for what someone might do. Plan for what they can do.
ETA: We use a phrase/principle in Krav training. “Train in anticipation that your opponent is going to be bigger, stronger, faster, and better than you; that they know more than you; and they know what you’re going to do”
But this does crop up in sparring. Everyone knows all the counters to the strikes, and the counters to the counters and so on. So it just ends up with people circling each other warily. No-one wants to make the first move.
So we’d invite people from other styles to train with us. But the hardest opponents were just people with no background. They’d try stuff like high kicks that no-one with any knowledge would even contemplate risking.
Having said that, the easiest opponents were people who’d picked up a bit of stuff from watching UFC or BJJ. You knew exactly what they’d try to do; but of course we’re not bound by any rules. So some of the responses came as a bit of a surprise. ‘Dislocation of expectation’ as they say in the trade. But amateurs apply that innately.
@Surplus: I got a filter for the bedroom back during the big wildfire season a few years ago and have kept it on since. The Flonase my doc suggested works on all but the worst days, on which the pills don’t work either. Takes at least 2 weeks to kick in, though.
@Alan: Not only has he not been paying the bills (duh, what did they expect?), but it’s been de-listed from the Google app store.
@Alan: Google has decreed it won’t carry the app, ever.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/truth-social-android-app-not-approved-google-play-store-axios-2022-08-30/
@Surplus: Getting a decent air filter (and keeping the filter part clean) helped. The Flonase my doc suggested helps a lot, I think because it gets right up there in your nose and sinuses. It takes 2 weeks to fully kick in though. On days when the filter and Flonase don’t work, the pills are also useless for me and I curse my post-nasal drip.
@ gss ex-noob
Wow.
How bad do you have to be that the people who own YouTube think your comments moderation isn’t up to scratch?
@Alan: And how far has Apple come from its “safe walled garden” approach that they’re OK with it?
Google’s lawyers are smart enough to realize that if someone gets attacked or swatted by these bozos, they’re on the hook for damages too. Apple apparently doesn’t care as long as their phones look pretty and sell for way more than they’re worth.
My acting teacher said the same thing about fencing, BTW.
@All: I’ve no idea why my first comment disappeared, then I wrote another, then the first one appeared. I refreshed and everything!
@BTD: Do you follow Jorts the Cat?