I…worked on this story for years..and…he just…he posted it on Psychology Today.
This screenshot has been bouncing around Twitter today, highlighting a column by couples therapist Greg Matos that attempts to explain just where men and women stand in the dating marketplace today. And though he couches his insights in highly euphemistic ways, I think he’s got the basics right: straight men are doing poorly in the dating world, especially online, because straight women are getting more and more fed up with their bullshit.
He begins by looking at dating apps — which many in the manosphere think have destroyed dating because all the endless flattery women allegedly get on these apps has made them spoiled and only interested in dating the hottest Chads. None of which is true.
The real issue for men on dating apps is a basic mathematical one: there are more of them than there are women.
“[U]pwards of 62% of users are men,” Matos writes, “and many women are overwhelmed with how many options they have.”
That’s one way of putting it, I guess, albeit a somewhat misleading one. Women aren’t overcome by too many good options on dating apps; they’re wading through a fast flowing river of dick pics and crude, generic come-ons from guys who are likely to react with rage if they’re turned down directly.
Take it away, Incel Pickup Lines Twitter account, which collects and posts screenshots of failed come-ons online (and which you should all follow).
Even serious Marxist scholars can have trouble talking to the ladies.
But that actually leads us pretty neatly to Matos’ next observation.
With so many options, it’s not surprising that women are increasingly selective. I do a live TikTok show (@abetterloveproject) and speak with hundreds of audience members every week; I hear recurring dating themes from women between the ages of 25 and 45: They prefer men who are emotionally available, good communicators, and share similar values.
Again, he’s being just a teensy bit euphemistic here. By “good communications” he means “guys that don’t say these things.”
And that leads to Matos’ next point: If guys want to beat the odds and actually meet a live woman who would like to date them, they’re going to have to make some real changes in how they think about and act around women. As Matos puts it, euphemistically as always, guys have serious dating “skill deficits” they need to clear up.
For men, this means a relationship skills gap that, if not addressed, will likely lead to fewer dating opportunities, less patience for poor communication skills, and longer periods of being single. …
Level up your mental health game. That means getting into some individual therapy to address your skills gap. It means valuing your own internal world and respecting your ideas enough to communicate them effectively. It means seeing intimacy, romance, and emotional connection as worthy of your time and effort.
Well, at least some guys are already trying just a little bit harder not to be the world’s most grotesque creeps.
I mean, at least this guy apologized for the “mistake” he’s 100% guaranteed to repeat with another woman, and another, and another.
And this guy? At least he’s asking. AT LEAST HE’S ASKING.
Baby steps, baby steps.
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@Feliks
Nobody is going to read the official incel wiki, and wade through tons of violent misogyny. And nobody forced you to link that. Post links direct links to mainstream science supporting you, or GTFO.
And I’m still unimpressed with your take on astrology. Reprehensible, really? After claiming incel ideology is fact based? Astrology might be pseudoscience but it’s not particularly harmful pseudoscience, AFAIK it hasn’t killed anyone. Incel and MRA ideology are pseudoscience with a large and growing death count.
@Feliks: “ Incels even have their wiki with collected scientific research to support their hateful beliefs, most of which is just common knowledge as I thought, but I can link to this fringe page if you insist. It contains a lot of demeanig and hateful language mixed into factual data, so you canread on your own responsibility.”
Nope.
That’s not it. YOU made a claim about them having beliefs supported by facts. Post the specific claims and the specific links to the facts.
Everything you are writing here just shows more and more why women are correct to avoid you. I honestly hope you remain chronically dateless for the good of women.
Imagine Felik’s pretending he is not an incel yet then decides to link to a literal INCEL WEBSITE to defend incels and their beliefs with his BS about them being fact based.
@Steph
I know, right? Even astrologists aren’t that dumb…
An official incel wiki is just science cosplay masquerading as serious business.
@Feliks
If the Incel wiki cites actual peer-reviewed scientific sources (which you yourself have presumably checked and verified, in order to be able to state with such confidence that they contain valid research), then surely you can tell us what those sources are and what facts they contain and which Incel beliefs are supported by those facts, right? Come on, give us just one journal citation to double-check, instead of telling us to sift through an enormous pile of violent misogynistic BS in search of a mythical grain of truth.
Watch incel boy link porn for his “factually based ” incel bullshit. Or like a study on the mating patterns of insects
Does anyone else think its weird that incels are so obsessed with how ugly they are?
I don’t know about other people, but I don’t think I’ve actually met a human being who I could call truly ugly. Sure, there are hair cuts and outfits that I find ugly. But faces? We’re all humans and the variability doesn’t span to ugly for me. Some extreme face mods make me uncomfortable, but I don’t necessarily count those since those were choices that the person made and represents their personal preferences.
Yes. It’s both weird, untrue, and the same time totally understandable.
Untrue: Every incel photo ever posted online just proves they are about average looking.
Understandable: They have a deep seated belief that they cannot be at fault for their perceived unluck in love. Or if they are it must be something they absolutely cannot change. QED. The uppity womenfolk must judge them on the minorest physical fault.
Presto they can blame women… and as a side effect they will weirdly obsess over their looks. From wrist circumference to canthal tilt.
@Malitia, I think it’s also a half-assed ploy for sympathy. Like, if they keep going on about how they’re hideous “genetic trash” (a phrase they actually use) that no one could possibly love, people will see them as poor sad babies with low self-esteem rather than the hate-filled bigots they really are.
@Russalka
Oh that too… and to wallow in self-pity. As they’re so innocent. Victims of the unreasonable expectations of the ebil womz! “Expectations” they mad up themselves and “womz” who should all be under25-model-mom-pornstar-virgins or why do they even exist?!
EDIT: I kinda get it. Self-pity is a hell of a drug. I was unfortunately very guilty of it in my teen years.
@Rusalka
Very much that IMO. It’s a huge red flag and not a sexy look on anyone, but even then it’d probably work better if they weren’t so gonzo misogynistic.
@bumblebug
I mean it’s very subjective, but I’m picky about men, so yes I’ve definitely met ones who I felt were ugly. But also I’m like Kinsey scale 4-5, so I have no idea how my feelings compare to most women.
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani: Thanks for the word-origin info. So it’s DEFINITELY not a word one should use when talking to strangers.
@Cyborgette
I’ve definitely met men/people I wasn’t attracted to. But I don’t think I’ve seen anyone I’d classify as truly ugly. Just maybe not my type. Maybe it’s a useless distinction between not attractive to me and ugly.
I’m also into men, but find more women pretty than I do men. (Though again, don’t really think I’ve seen anyone really ugly). It’s almost like sexual attraction and relationships are more complicated than looks.
@Feliks
You came on this feminist website to complain a lot about your lack of dates from dating apps. Therefore it’s logical to assume that you don’t have much success with women in general. It’s not exactly a leap of logic to make that assumption.
Then don’t befriend somebody with what you consider to be deeply irrational and reprehensible beliefs. That’s really okay with me. Speaking of irrational, what do you want us here on this website to do? Change all those women on dating apps so that they don’t enjoy celebrities, wine, and astrology? We do not have that power. It sounds as though you’re lucky that they discussed their hobbies openly. You dodged a bullet. Right? Or are you saying that all women are like that (AWALT, as the manospherians say)? Then you are out of luck and had better stick with your very cool, rational, and virtuous hobbies. Leave women alone. They’re all astrologers!*
*Possibly your third wife and your groupies are exceptions to this rule.
@Elaine the witch:
Or lobsters.
Oh, look, Incel Boy finally stops pretending he isn’t one and links to a website of incel toxicity.
Imagine our surprise, not.
@Malitia: But you outgrew that and became an adult.
Incels never outgrow that stage, and since most women don’t want to date people who are mentally and emotionally children, plus those who radiate menace and/or misogyny; of course incels don’t have women falling all over them. Most women flee men that seem dangerous, or just too much hassle to deal with their emotional problems and hissy fits. I got enough problems of my own *waves at world in general* to deal with a whiny misogynist and dangerous boy who insists I serve his every need while looking like a porn star.
The only ugly people I’ve met are ones who have obvious birth defects or scarred from some disease/accident. Like, their features are in the wrong places. And that’s only my lizard brain going “AAH! What’s wrong with their face?!” Which is a built-in reaction, and then my cerebral cortex reasserts itself and I act like a civilized human being.
I saw a little kid out with his teacher who had whatever that is when your face bones don’t connect, so he had wall eyes way far apart, his nose was nostrils in a dent, almost no ears, and he was deaf and blind. “AHH! Wait, this little boy has overcome what must be serious birth defects.” But it was a lovely spring day, he could feel the sun and the breeze and smell the nearby eateries, so he was grinning. I crouched down a ways away and said “Hi!” Whereupon the teacher asked if I knew Matthew and I said no, he just looked so happy. She informed me he was deafblind. She fingerspelled what I said into the hand she was holding and he let go to shake my hand.
Big grins all around. Teacher thanked me for not avoiding him like most people do. I bet he could get a date, he looked intelligent and was capable of having joy and manners. He’s probably in his late 20s now and I hope he’s been that happy thousands of times since.
Matthew looked very odd on the outside, but his personality was beautiful.
Incels look mostly average on the outside — it’s their insides that are truly ugly.
It’s not involuntary: they’ve chosen it by allowing their thinking and personalities to become toxic. Stop hanging out in incel spaces, stop watching porn, do some work on your psyche, and try listening to women and believing them when they tell you how to not be an incel. Or just quit talking to women at all, because we all know one when we see one and as the philosopher said, ain’t nobody got time for that.
Maybe it’s an algorithm thing, but this just popped up.
https://www.popsugar.co.uk/love/why-do-straight-men-hate-astrology-48848255?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=post&utm_campaign=POPSUGARUK
I’m not totally convinced, but that’s my typical Capricorn scepticism.
@Alan
Oh look, I’m a Capricorn too and I feel the same 😅
But yeah, I’ll admit I didn’t know real astrology was that complex, but it still sounds like it embodies a prescriptivism and fatalism that I kind of hate. And also it tries to masquerade as a science in a way that most other forms of mysticism don’t. I like to see the future and myself as more malleable, and to keep my mysticism and science more apart.
… And also I don’t want to deal with people using astrology to “prove” that I’m not a real woman, and I suspect a lot of trans people feel similarly. But that’s a hazard with a lot of things, sadly, not just astrology.
@ cyborgette
This is an interesting take on fate from a science perspective.
I’m a big fan of Sabine and I find her arguments compelling. But I also like her caveat.
In summary her thesis is, there can be no such thing as free will, but the way the world works in practice is such a good facsimile of free will it doesn’t make a practical difference; so don’t worry about it.
But of course it might just be determined that I feel that.
I do though think we can influence actions; and the answer as to how we do that is somehow related to the seeming incompatibly of classical physics and quantum physics.
If the classical universe is totally deterministic, and the quantum one is totally random then how can we make a difference? Well, what if the answer is somewhere in the apparent gap between them? Maybe free will and consciousness is what actually bridges the two?
I appreciate that’s all a bit nebulous. I don’t have the expertise or vocabulary to really express what I mean; or even explain it to myself internally. Bit of Sapir-Whorf there.
But if some day someone wins the Nobel Prize for putting that into proper language then I will be linking back to this post.
@Alan
IDK Sabine, but basically same. I don’t believe I have Free Will, and in practice I don’t believe that matters. However the idea that everything about me can be known by looking at the stars seems extremely insulting and minimizing, esp. on a personal level – you don’t get to know the circumstances of my life, the people who raised and influenced me, the ideas I encountered just by chance, or (of course) the sources of trauma, just by looking at where the heavenly bodies were when I was born. Humans are very social animals, and I find this kind of reductionism basically as insulting as someone telling me that I’ll turn straight because estrogen (LOL), or that I’m a computer geek because Jews have genes for high intelligence (LMAO).
Sure it’s not dangerous (esp. not as dangerous as that last one) because it’s not a systemic bias, but yeah, throwing out Free Will doesn’t mean we get to throw out complexity. Real astrology might be complex, but I don’t believe it’s anywhere near complex enough to do IRL humans justice.
(Still no excuse for judgmentally trash talking people for liking astrology though, I mean WTF. People are entitled to believe weird things. G-d knows I believe plenty.)
Although, there is one way I judge people based on astrological sign… sort of. Not so much the sign itself, but if someone is a Pisces and is always making a huge deal about that, I’ll want to avoid getting too close to them. Just… way too many experiences where “I’m such a Pisces” was code for “I have terrible boundaries, and will emotionally abuse and gaslight my friends while constantly playing victim.”
The sign I don’t care about, but when someone makes it their whole personality? I run. Maybe not always, but often IME that’s a red flag.
(Yes, yes, I know. Such a Capricorn, right?)
@Alan
Why does the article link the full moon issues to astrology? Why not link it to the full moon’s apperance? I can think of more likely explanations for that than astrology.
@ cyborgette
My entire moral philosophy hinges on there being, if not actual free will, then something so near as makes no practical difference. I believe we are moral actors, responsible (generally) for our own decisions and actions. If there’s no free will then it is not right for me to comment or react to anyone else’s behaviour. By definition they can’t help it. Although I guess then neither can I if I do judge them? It’s all very complex isn’t it?
As for the ‘supernatural’. This is one of those things where I hold two completely inconsistent viewpoints simultaneously.
I am very much a subscriber to things like the scientific method. I think everything in the universe is explicable (even if we can’t explain it) by purely natural processes. And frankly I’m a bit worried by people who say the only thing holding people back from evil is the fear of punishment in the afterlife. What if they lost their faith; would they go on a killing spree?
But contrariwise, nothing in this universe could shift me from my pagan sensibilities; and my decision making techniques would make even a neolithic shaman blush. I make more decisions based on signs and portents than the bad guy in a fantasy novel.
I think maybe that’s why this is one of my favourite spots. The juxtaposition of standing stone and radio telescope just so gels with how I live.
@ makroth
?