I…worked on this story for years..and…he just…he posted it on Psychology Today.
This screenshot has been bouncing around Twitter today, highlighting a column by couples therapist Greg Matos that attempts to explain just where men and women stand in the dating marketplace today. And though he couches his insights in highly euphemistic ways, I think he’s got the basics right: straight men are doing poorly in the dating world, especially online, because straight women are getting more and more fed up with their bullshit.
He begins by looking at dating apps — which many in the manosphere think have destroyed dating because all the endless flattery women allegedly get on these apps has made them spoiled and only interested in dating the hottest Chads. None of which is true.
The real issue for men on dating apps is a basic mathematical one: there are more of them than there are women.
“[U]pwards of 62% of users are men,” Matos writes, “and many women are overwhelmed with how many options they have.”
That’s one way of putting it, I guess, albeit a somewhat misleading one. Women aren’t overcome by too many good options on dating apps; they’re wading through a fast flowing river of dick pics and crude, generic come-ons from guys who are likely to react with rage if they’re turned down directly.
Take it away, Incel Pickup Lines Twitter account, which collects and posts screenshots of failed come-ons online (and which you should all follow).
Even serious Marxist scholars can have trouble talking to the ladies.
But that actually leads us pretty neatly to Matos’ next observation.
With so many options, it’s not surprising that women are increasingly selective. I do a live TikTok show (@abetterloveproject) and speak with hundreds of audience members every week; I hear recurring dating themes from women between the ages of 25 and 45: They prefer men who are emotionally available, good communicators, and share similar values.
Again, he’s being just a teensy bit euphemistic here. By “good communications” he means “guys that don’t say these things.”
And that leads to Matos’ next point: If guys want to beat the odds and actually meet a live woman who would like to date them, they’re going to have to make some real changes in how they think about and act around women. As Matos puts it, euphemistically as always, guys have serious dating “skill deficits” they need to clear up.
For men, this means a relationship skills gap that, if not addressed, will likely lead to fewer dating opportunities, less patience for poor communication skills, and longer periods of being single. …
Level up your mental health game. That means getting into some individual therapy to address your skills gap. It means valuing your own internal world and respecting your ideas enough to communicate them effectively. It means seeing intimacy, romance, and emotional connection as worthy of your time and effort.
Well, at least some guys are already trying just a little bit harder not to be the world’s most grotesque creeps.
I mean, at least this guy apologized for the “mistake” he’s 100% guaranteed to repeat with another woman, and another, and another.
And this guy? At least he’s asking. AT LEAST HE’S ASKING.
Baby steps, baby steps.
Follow me on Mastodon.
Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.
We Hunted the Mammoth relies on support from you, its readers, to survive. So please donate here if you can, or at David-Futrelle-1 on Venmo.
@GSS ex-noob: gotcha, and sorry!
But yeah IDK, it kind of astounds me how many straight people (even incl. some straight women IME) defend the most extreme and sexist versions of that trope, as if preferring wealthy partners isn’t a conscious choice with material benefits (as opposed to some biological compulsion or all-consuming kink). It’s pretty wild.
@Feliks
Yes. I think you’re dumb enough to still have red flags on your profile. Because you don’t understand that a red flag doesn’t need to be huge.
Also, the whole “nice guys finish last” thing is an incel talking point. Not actually true.
Get some therapy before you try dating again. Maybe you will learn something useful.
Years ago, I had a blind date with a guy, followed by a first date. Over dinner, he told me that he was skeptical about astrology: no student of astrology had ever been able to guess his birth sign. Are you a Taurus? I asked. It turned out that he was. (He had mentioned that he was stubborn. Just like my mother, a stubborn Taurus.)
Undateable? That’s me. (Although I don’t think astrology was the reason he didn’t ask for a second date.)
@bumblebug
So what exactly “red flags” could I fit in my short description? Was it my education, interests and hobbies (nature, philosophy, reading, movies, walks)? I had never written a single word about my political etc. views, about my expectations other than I am looking for someone nice. What could it be?
Why do you have obsession with incels? They are some internet subculture with hateful and weird language but many of their views are widely accepted and supported by facts, although they make it hateful.
@ Kat
I didn’t say astrology beliefs make women undateable but if you say here that failing on dating apps it’s mens’ fault due to bad personality and attitude, the supposition is reasonable, since astrobullshit is huge intellectual and frequently (in case of judging and rejecting people based on their zodiac sign) moral failure.
@Feliks: Okay, I’ll bite. Which incel views are supported by facts? Widely accepted is not the same thing so let’s leave that one aside.
@Feliks
You seem pompous and dismissive. You seem like you’ve got a big ego. You seem like you think your owed a date. So when you reach out or write about yourself your tone comes off as an asshole. Even the short sentence you wrote describing yourself makes it seem like you think you’re superior to others who don’t share your traits.
@Feliks, “Moral failure”? Give me a freaking break. No one is morally obligated to date anyone else.
Claiming that incel beliefs are supported by facts — now that’s a moral failure.
Incel Boy wrote:
We literally iterated them: blaming women for systemic problems that we didn’t cause. Defending men who “become misogynists” from online dating, and admitting you’re one of them. Being more judgmental about women who like astrology than men who are pieces of shit. Dismissing everything we say about the risk of rape and abuse. Judging women collectively as stupid because a bunch of us on dating sites are into astrology, Netflix, and wine (as if those aren’t guy things too, I mean holy shit all the wine snobs I’ve met were male). And just… generally being super judgmental about petty shit, while at best defending and at worst engaging in stuff that’s actually harmful.
I repeat, if we were talking on a dating site, I’d have blocked you in the first 10 minutes – and it wouldn’t be the first time either.
LOL
but seriously “their views are widely accepted and supported” is part of what’s wrong with society. And facts? If you want to talk facts then you need to provide links backing you up. And not links to Breitbart or whatnot. This is a feminist blog, burden of proof falls on you.
Yeah, that? Making like astrology belief is on the same moral level as misogyny and being a creep? That is another red flag. And also just stupid.
I am still interested in why Astrology is such a bugbear here. I mean, Feliks, did someone turn you down once because you weren’t an adventurous Sagittarius like them? Did the one in a thousand or whatever women who posted in their profile they will only date go-getter Aries really rankle you because they were super hot or something?
Many women have had the experience of being really, really bored by a man who won’t shut up about how he’s into philosophy so that right there is going to be a red flag for some. Especially since a subset of men mean ‘reactionary thought’ when they say they’re into philosophy.
@bumblebug
It is reasonable for you you assume that from what written here but in real life I am self-deprecating and self-belittleing, as well as I was during my trials with dating apps. It was absolutely impossible to read my deep prejudices and alleged grandiosity from several line of text, and that is my point. Why can’t you admit possibility that I am just ugly or dress bad or women online are very picky, or all that? It is like saying that poor people are poor because of laziness, so it is their fault, although there are in fact other factors influencing poverty.
@ Rusałka
I didn’t say that about dating but about navigating choices according to astrology.
Some incel beliefs are factual or generalisations/oversimplifications. It is hatred and dehumanising language that makes them morally corrupt.
@.45
Astrology is deeply irrational, especially predicting someone’s personality traits based on it. I have bad experience from childhood due to family members believing this nonsense.
@Feliks: So generalizing people based on their astrological sign is irrational but generalizing them based on their gender is rational?
It reminds me of the joke that libertarianism is astrology for men.
Also citation still needed for a factual incel belief. Note that if the belief is a generalization or an oversimplification this is not the same as being factual.
@Feliks men who are not conventionally attractive get dates. It’s your personality that is not attracting women, not your looks.
@Feliks
“ but many of their views are widely accepted and supported by facts, although they make it hateful.”
We know that misogyny (I.e what incels advance) is widely accepted but no, incel views categorically are NOT supported by facts. They’re supported by misogyny. And the fact you are parroting their talking points means it is safer for women that they don’t date you.
Oh FFS, read this, and everything related on the blog: https://www.doctornerdlove.com/the-surprising-secret-to-getting-dates-on-dating-apps/
You can trust him because he is a white male.
@Bumblebug: Yes, non-conventionally attractive men get dates all the time. Why, I’ve even known some who married “out of their league” women.
But they didn’t put themselves off as superior, whine about all the women who wouldn’t date them, and parrot incel talking points (while pretending to not be incels).
They do it by not dissing entire groups of people, not thinking they’re owed dates/sex, and not generalizing about “women” as a bloc. They don’t have red flags that they can’t see even after they’re pointed out repeatedly. They don’t make women think “what a misogynist creep and/or a blathering boor.” They don’t ignore when women say they do/don’t find a personality trait appealing. And they don’t have tons of money, either.
They have respect for women, women who are just friends, and they’re not whiny and hateful.
None of the women I know who are into astrology has ever made anyone feel unsafe to meet them. Plenty of men I came across do, including our latest Incel Boy.
@.45: good link.
Even attractiveness standards change. Rubens painted the hawt chicks of the 1600s with plenty of flesh; Twiggy was a hawt chick of the 1960s.
East Asian men were considered not at all sexy; nowadays every teen girl has her bedroom wall covered with BTS (MANY other K-pop boy groups are available; I have recommendations even though I was a teen in Carter and Reagan years) posters and merch.
Also, don’t do anything online you wouldn’t do in public. Dick picks are the same as flashing; if you wouldn’t do it to keep off the sex offender list, don’t do it or you end up on every woman’s HELL NO YOU PERV list.
(I know Feliks doesn’t do that, good for him)
@.45 thanks for the dr nerdlove article, it is pretty good isn’t it!
@Feliks
Aw, you smooth talker. There’s nothing a woman likes more than being told she’s hugely stupid and immoral.
just from listening to him, I wouldn’t date feliks even if he looked and sounded like tom Hiddleston, and y’all know how thirsty I am for Tom Hiddleston.
@SpecialFFrog, Steph
Incels even have their wiki with collected scientific research to support their hateful beliefs, most of which is just common knowledge as I thought, but I can link to this fringe page if you insist. It contains a lot of demeanig and hateful language mixed into factual data, so you canread on your own responsibility.
https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill
@bumblebug
You don’t know if I have dates, sex, girlfriend, third wife, groupies sending me love letters. You only know I had trouble getting matches on dating apps and you assume that is because my personality, not other factors, which is irrational and probably wrong.
@Kat
Anyone can have preferences and judgements about others beliefs. I would find it hard to befriend somebody with beliefs I find deeply irrational and reprehensible, like religious fanatic or someone who believes in Jewish plot to destroy the West, it is similar with astrology.