I…worked on this story for years..and…he just…he posted it on Psychology Today.
This screenshot has been bouncing around Twitter today, highlighting a column by couples therapist Greg Matos that attempts to explain just where men and women stand in the dating marketplace today. And though he couches his insights in highly euphemistic ways, I think he’s got the basics right: straight men are doing poorly in the dating world, especially online, because straight women are getting more and more fed up with their bullshit.
He begins by looking at dating apps — which many in the manosphere think have destroyed dating because all the endless flattery women allegedly get on these apps has made them spoiled and only interested in dating the hottest Chads. None of which is true.
The real issue for men on dating apps is a basic mathematical one: there are more of them than there are women.
“[U]pwards of 62% of users are men,” Matos writes, “and many women are overwhelmed with how many options they have.”
That’s one way of putting it, I guess, albeit a somewhat misleading one. Women aren’t overcome by too many good options on dating apps; they’re wading through a fast flowing river of dick pics and crude, generic come-ons from guys who are likely to react with rage if they’re turned down directly.
Take it away, Incel Pickup Lines Twitter account, which collects and posts screenshots of failed come-ons online (and which you should all follow).
Even serious Marxist scholars can have trouble talking to the ladies.
But that actually leads us pretty neatly to Matos’ next observation.
With so many options, it’s not surprising that women are increasingly selective. I do a live TikTok show (@abetterloveproject) and speak with hundreds of audience members every week; I hear recurring dating themes from women between the ages of 25 and 45: They prefer men who are emotionally available, good communicators, and share similar values.
Again, he’s being just a teensy bit euphemistic here. By “good communications” he means “guys that don’t say these things.”
And that leads to Matos’ next point: If guys want to beat the odds and actually meet a live woman who would like to date them, they’re going to have to make some real changes in how they think about and act around women. As Matos puts it, euphemistically as always, guys have serious dating “skill deficits” they need to clear up.
For men, this means a relationship skills gap that, if not addressed, will likely lead to fewer dating opportunities, less patience for poor communication skills, and longer periods of being single. …
Level up your mental health game. That means getting into some individual therapy to address your skills gap. It means valuing your own internal world and respecting your ideas enough to communicate them effectively. It means seeing intimacy, romance, and emotional connection as worthy of your time and effort.
Well, at least some guys are already trying just a little bit harder not to be the world’s most grotesque creeps.
I mean, at least this guy apologized for the “mistake” he’s 100% guaranteed to repeat with another woman, and another, and another.
And this guy? At least he’s asking. AT LEAST HE’S ASKING.
Baby steps, baby steps.
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@ .45
I’m not sure if I’d call it understanding as such. The thing with art is that everybody’s own subjective experience is equally valid. So we all understand it really. In terms of what it means to us.
I just have that nerdy thing where I like to know about the background to stuff. That can add depth to something that moves me on an emotional level and which I actually like; but also allow me to appreciate and see something in a work that personally doesn’t actually of anything for me.
Like when people post here about their hobbies and interests. I have no desire whatsoever to crochet; but I still like hearing people chat about it. It’s that thing that when someone is knowledgable and enthusiastic about a subject; that alone can draw you in.
That allows you to experience art in a way I never could. So we come from different, mutually incompatible frames of reference, but we both equally get something out of it.
I don’t think there’s any one way to enjoy anything. Like we say in martial arts “The ‘best’ technique is the one that works for you”. I think that’s generally applicable to all aspects of life.
@.45: I had the huffing and puffing and hoping there was an elevator instead of taking even one flight of stairs. Mentioned it to my doc and a basic generic asthma inhaler (albuterol) helped a LOT. Still not 100% but much better. Most days I don’t even have to take as many doses as I’m allowed.
@Alan: I absolutely would DM someone who had that pop up! Might not lead to anything, but I’d compliment your joke. An unexpected laugh is always welcome.
@Incel Boy: I agree with others; a dating app can’t “make you” misogynist — you had to be one to begin with. Probably women could tell that. And everything you’ve said here has been whining, self-pitying, entitled, and yes, mansplaining. Women are not interested in that, no matter what… unless you’re super-rich.
You’re not a survivor, you’re just an icky loser and have been for some time. Work on your personality; your country might have free health care and mental health care.
Take the hint and leave women alone until you get your act together.
Another option would be, that if you swipe me, Monty Hall pops up with a couple of doors and says “Hang on, before you commit…”
[Worst case outcome is you get a pet goat]
@ three cats in a trenchcoat
Sorry, wasn’t ignoring you. But I needed some time to process what you say. And thank you for that; it’s very interesting.
I don’t have your expertise; but you’ve got me thinking about the de-humanisation that you mention, and also stuff like their obsession with robots and the like. It feels like it might all be related somehow.
@GSS ex-noob
Speak for yourself on that please 😐 I get the survival aspect, but given a choice I’d avoid interacting with rich men ever again. The ruling class are morally abhorrent, and TBH I find it incredibly gross how pop culture (even “woke” pop culture) tries to make like every woman just wants a rich bastard.
No hard feelings, just… I grew up constantly hearing “Of course you’d marry a rich man, that’s just how women are, power is an aphrodisiac and you have no choice” etc. We’re entitled to our own choices/preferences, but the expectation around it makes me sick to my stomach.
@ Alan Robertshaw
Yes, but when people like you come in talking all the details about the history and such, it makes “I tried that once” guys like me feel small. ;D
Like one scene I saw from Star Wars: Rebels, where Lando Cal-whatever is on board talking about Sabine’s impressionistic art and how it is reminiscent of the work on whatever planet, etc. Then the main character who’s name I don’t recall gets jealous and goes “I told you your art was good weeks ago!” To which Sabine responds with “Yes, but you didn’t know why.”
@ GSS ex-noob
I got lucky and am recovering quickly, though in leaps and bounds, not a nice linear fashion. I was dragging heavily for a while and when I went back to work after quarantining, I was having trouble keeping up with the slow guy on our team going up the stairs. (I work construction now and the elevators aren’t even installed yet, nor would people like me wearing high-vis be allowed to use them.) However, by the end of the day I was able to hop up them in a fair imitation of my usual, though I stopped to turn red, sweat, and breathe a little at each floor.
This mirrors how I felt when I came down with it. First it was just a sore throat, then suddenly things begin jumping ahead in seemingly exponential ways. So, it got bad there for a bit and I dropped off the radar for basically everything, sleeping 10-12 hours a day and stuff like that, but now my main issues revolve around a lingering cough, runny nose and still breathing harder than usual. If you are using an inhaler, I don’t need to tell you that I am really quite lucky overall and I am feeling pretty good about it in general.
I do hope your condition improves as well. I know people who have suffered Long Covid and some have gotten better over time and others have struggled. Someone I know was talking about a relative who was one of the first to get Covid and two years later she has improved, but is still on oxygen. This is far from “just a flu”, no matter what some people would like to think.
@Raging Bee,
IF I recall correctly (I have a memory like a sieve most of the time :/ ), waifu came from a (I think) Japanese light novel in their equivalent of the high school life genre. The character in question was a creepy foreign language teacher teaching English, and was referring to a photograph of a good-looking young woman he had as his ‘waifu’, aka ‘wife’. Word has since morphed (in English, anyway) to mean any young good looking Asian woman/girl.
A few years ago I read a story about a female reporter who decided to test out the theory that men don’t read dating profiles at all before contacting a woman on them. She created a profile that had every female stereotypical relationship red flag she could think of in it – bunny boiler, obsessive attachment based on just looking at your picture, the whole nine yards. Then stuck (with permission) her friend the professional model’s picture on it. Based on the number and content of replies that profile generated, virtually none of the guys who saw it actually read what it actually said.
Moral – guys still haven’t learned how to think with their big head first when it comes to interacting with women.
@ .45
Well you certainly shouldn’t. Part of the joy for me is, with my total lack of ability, I get to be in awe of anyone who has talent in that regard. I love seeing people do stuff that makes me go, wow, how is that even humanly possible? So I am very impressed that you can actually do it.
It’s like, I like climbing videos, but I do have a bit of experience of climbing. So when I see someone do a route I’m like “I’d have fallen off there”. It doesn’t stop me enjoying watching people do amazing things; but it is a minor distraction.
Maybe it’s like that thing that poor people are supposedly less envious of rich people than middle class people. Because it’s so unimaginable that it’s irrelevant; but people with the privilege to have aspirations feel resentful that they just missed out. Like ‘to not want a thing is to have a thing’.
So if I knew nothing of climbing it would just seem like magic; but I find myself thinking ‘actually, I should be able to do that hold’ and then think I should have worked on it more.
@ redsilkphoenix
“Attractive leggy blonde seeks healthy male. 21-40 yo. Blood group AB+. At least one functioning kidney. Not allergic to chloroform.”
Meet me in my hotel room ;-).
Bring a bag of ice.”
Alan Robertshaw
Responding to your question “ Are there people who really think like that?”
I’m pretty sure there have always been far too many people (I’m thinking of primary school teachers here) acknowledge it without acknowledging it – in the routine question put to playground bullies. How would you feel if someone twisted your nose / pulled your hair/ broke your lunchbox….?
With me and heaps of others tearing our hair out saying of course s/he knows how it feels, that’s why they did it – but not all bullies do. I suspect that’s what lies behind the very common perception that primary aged girl bullies are nastier than their male counterparts.
I’m of the view that the difference between girls and boys prepuberty is not as large as people presume – it depends more on what kind of lenses you have in your presumption meter.
@bumblebug
The problem is I can’t be picky if I get no matches, no chances to talk with somebody on these apps.
@cyborgette
It seems extreme and blown out of proportion, diminishing harm done by actual rape; also it is baseless to assume that most female users are concerned about this, since it was proven that they are driven by looks (sexual attractiveness) of users they “swipe right” (the same with men). In real life also violent men and rapist have more sexual partners and involuntary celibacy affects mostly shy, mentally disturbed men or those with bad health, certainly not psychopaths, thugs and criminals.
Female hobbys as expressed on dating apps profiles are frequently celebrieties, wine drinking, Netflix and, what I find especially disturbing, astrology, including astrology-based judging other people. It is really sad.
@GSS ex-noob
I see you correctly identified me as member of hateful online American subculture, despite me not using their language and saying that I am not inhabitant of Anglophone world.
Thats true that women can smell misogyny and sexist avoid men who despise and abuse them, as we see in countless examples offline, because statistically violent and misogynist men have fewer sexual partners than “nice guys”. Thank you for genuine care about my mental health. This is not sarcasm.
@Feliks
Wow, solipsist much? You have a bunch of women literally telling you why we’re so hard to date, and you just respond by denying it and substituting your own version. You claim I’m blowing things out of proportion about the danger of rape and abuse, in a comment section full of rape and abuse survivors (including me). Fuck all the way off with that.
IDGAF if you look like Harvey Weinstein or Robert Pattinson, right now you are not boyfriend material for anyone. And for the health and wellbeing of your would-be girlfriends, I hope you stay lonely until you fix your attitude.
@ Feliks Dzierżyński
The only thing I really question in your list of hobbies there is celebrities being a hobby. I don’t see a little wine drinking or Netflicks to be deal breakers, and although I don’t buy into astrology, one of the most interesting women I matched with was all about it.
She asked me my sign and then, based on it, started making these assumptions about me, practically inventing my life story from it. What was fascinating to me was that she wasn’t describing my actual life’s story, but what, with some modification, I had often aspired to be, what I have been slowly working toward my entire life and hope to take large steps for in the next year or so.
I never met her in person, as she turned out to be looking for someone to settle down with and be a father figure to her son, which was not my aim, but talking with her was interesting.
Anyway, I do find it interesting in a different way how you seem to think you can’t be picky without any matches. The only way that makes sense is if you swiped right on most, if not all the women on there. Otherwise, if you are picking and choosing, there is an argument to be made that you are picky to some degree.
People say there’s nothing to astrology, but nearly every Capricorn I know was born in January.
@Feliks
Maybe you’re not getting matches because you’re triggering red flags. You do not come across as a safe person to meet with in the real world. You are dismissive of safety risks and dismissive of people’s hobbies. You seem a bit mean as well. Also entitled to a woman’s time and attention.
If you come across the same way on an app I would be worried that if I did reach out to you and then decided I wasn’t interested that you would be one of those assholes that tries to convince me to give you a chance or argues that my lack of interest is unfair.
Basically, you seem like a creep and an asshole who doesn’t actually like women that much.
Feliks. You’re saying Because Statistically violent and abusive men have fewer sexual partners than decent or nice guys. Where are these statistics?
Even thinking about it with no numbers to go by, it’d be quite reasonable to put these men into the can’t-keep-a-girlfriend group because most women with no history y abuse would remove themselves from the danger zone promptly. Certainly on a really rough or quick overview.
Let’s see… I don’t care much about celebrities (other than paying attention to what nonsense politicians are up to), but I like Netflix (Stranger Things!) and wish I could still drink wine (liver says no). I’m not into astrology but I have tarot cards, crystals, and a witch’s almanac. I’m undateable. Undateable!!!
Funny thing re astrology – I’m on a forum for LGBT+ people in tech jobs, and a clear majority of people there are into astrology. Most of them are much smarter and more experienced techies than I am.
I don’t like astrology myself because it’s often prescriptive, and in particular because my sign is considered extremely logical and masculine (and I’m neither LOL). So I kind of dread what cis people will throw at me if they get wind of that. OTOH I like tarot. I wouldn’t base a major life decision on it, but Magic Is Psychology and ideally these are all tools for interfacing with our unconscious minds. IDK if tarot readings have ever shown me something I didn’t know, but they’ve very often helped me face truths I was in denial of.
And while we’re on tarot BTW, I might as well plug the Silicon Dawn deck (be warned a bunch of these are super NSFW): https://silicon-dawn.cards/
Sadly no longer in print and goes for a very high price on eBay, and also reputedly harder to read than most decks. But the cards are gorgeous and really appeal to the SF geek in me.
@cyborgette
I substitute “my own version”, which is based on statistics and easily observed facts accepted by majority of people for your version, which is just your opinion about my person and expression of your alleged preferences.
@bumblebug
Your comment is perfect summary of this discussion. I may be mean, give “red flags” or whatever, but:
1. why do you assume I’m so stupid to express it in my dating apps’ profiles? You think I written in the description “dumb bitches begone”, “astrology is for retards” or something like that? Or do you think I just look like bad person, smiling on my photos?
2. In real life being mean, violent, abusive etc. does not harm mens’ sexual success, even contrary, so why there is this blaming male users about their failure?
I’m about 95% sure the “cashier at Kroger” one is a copypasta.
@Feliks
Citation needed.
Secondly what is wrong with wine drinking and Netflix as hobbies?
@Feliks
The funny thing is you ARE using incel talking points. The claiming being dateless turned you to the misogyny. The trope about women not wanting “Nice Guys”.
This is basic incel nonsense. Incels aren’t just anglophone either.
@Alan: I wonder if anyone ever wanted/got to keep the goat? I’ve a friend who lives on many acres who’s had all kinds of small to medium critters; they’d probably take it in.
Also, ether is easier to get hold of, so your putative AB+ kidney enthusiast should check for that too.
@Cyborgette: I meant that, of all the ugly crass men I can think of, only the super-rich ones ever get women. Gold diggers and social climbers, but cis women nonetheless.
@.45: I have had strep (repeatedly) and mono, plus flu and colds, and NEVER have I had a throat as sore as with Covid. But only for 3 days. The thing that helped me most was getting another booster. It seems to help flush out hidden reservoirs of the virus. A couple of days after that, I suddenly felt a whole lot better.
If your breathing stays iffy, do get an inhaler. The one I have can be used 4x/day; I only use it 2x, maybe 3x when I’m doing more aerobic things. It’s good to carry around and have handy when the breathing problem kicks in — you’d probably only need it when you’re actually climbing stairs.