So you’ve probably heard the news: Conspiracy theorist and professional yeller Alex Jones has been ordered to pay $4.1 million in compensatory damages to a family who lost a child in the Sandy Hook school massacre, which Jones had been calling a “hoax.” Jones is likely going to have to pay a much greater amount in punitive damages.
I found myself wondering just what the biggest idiots on the internet thought of these latest developments, so I took a stroll through Patriots.win, the Reddit-like successor to the long-ago banned TheDonald subreddit, home to an assortment of MAGA-minded conspiracy theorists who aren’t necessarily big fans of Alex Jones.
So let’s take a peek at some of the more, er, intriguing responses.
StrongIsland is all-in for red-faced Alex, and rather down on the “demons” opposing him.
Alex Jones is exposing Unvalde and demons must punish him, I will continue to have his back and speak of his greatness!Â
Dagoat4l warns that there is a huge conspiracy afoot aimed at the heroic Alex Jones, truthteller.
Rich and powerful people are behind this. AJ not going to quit. We will lift him up. He’s tried to warn us for so long.
TRUMP420KUSH thinks that if they can go after Alex Jones, they’ll soon be going after everyone with “thought crimey” beliefs.
Alex Jones was the first to be “Cancelled” and now look where we are. It won’t be long until average Joe is getting dragged into court for thought crimes.
[T]rudeau_is_a_faggot sketches out what he thinks the big conspiracy here is.
It was August 5th 2018 that Alex was banned off youtube and from the rest of social media. Four years ago tomorrow. Exactly 3 months until the 2018 midterm elections.
They wanted Alex off social media for the midterms back then in 2018, and now they are trying to stack the deck for the 2022 midterms by taking out Alex and Infowars completely.
They do not want Alex and infowars reporting on all the criminal shit going into the midterms and what you can bet will be widespread election fraud during and after the election.
Remember the lesson learned in 2018. First they come for Alex, then they come for everyone else.
Squatch1111 thinks that ordinary civic-minded MAGAs are the real target here.
It’s not so much the money. It’s the precedent it sets. It’s a new political tool to shut us Trump supporters up. See someone on video counting stacks of ballots late at night with no poll watchers around? Or stuffing ballot boxes at 2am in the morning? Don’t say anything… you can be liable for damages to that person (and by default, not jury decision).
N3V1K thinks the real fake news comes from the mainstream media — and the big companies with big ad budgets that support the media.
Any Sponsor that had advertisements aired on CNN or any MSM during that shooting needs to pay also.
JMaN, by contrast, thinks that the real winner here is … Alex Jones?
Alex got well over $4 million worth of publicity, advertising and a platform.
Stupid commies!
PhantomFUZZÂ thinks it’s about guns, baby, guns.
Even Alex couldn’t fathom the full evil of the US deep state. He couldn’t imagine it was real and that intelligence agencies would not only ignore tip offs about shooters but would seek them out and gas light them into killing innocent Americans so they could push gun confiscation under the guise of stopping mass shootings they foment.
Then there’s Nerdrem1, who also thinks something fishy and gun-related is going on — but argues that Jones himself is “controlled opposition” and not to be trusted.
Yep, there’s no limits to the depths these people will go for their great plan or whatever they call it, and one of the top priorities is disarming the people. This was an attempt at that, nothing more or less. Alex Jones is controlled oppo and a sacrificial lamb to protect higher ups
He also had some thoughts about baby farms.
In my opinion it was real kids that got killed but it wasn’t their real parents on the news. They were just kids from underground baby farms, the parents are paid actors, the killers were cia/FBI/mercs, and this alex jones bullshit is just to cement the official story
DownGoesAJÂ Â is also not a big fan of Mr. Piece of Shit Jones.
I’m thrilled to see this piece of shit take a hit, just wish the damages were higher. Pot stirring piece of junk had to look that mother in the eye and apologize, trying to pretend he didn’t believe what he said, or even say what he said. There’s too much on record from that big mouth and I’m delighted he has been bitten in his big fat ass. …
[A]ll you AJ knob suckers are perpetuating a hoax bigger than Russia gate or anything else. Stop supporting this ego maniac and look at the facts.
Facts, huh? I haven’t seen many of those in this discussion. But everyone gets their own conspiracy theory. It’s the MAGA way.
Follow me on Mastodon.
Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.
We Hunted the Mammoth relies on support from you, its readers, to survive. So please donate here if you can, or at David-Futrelle-1 on Venmo.
@ jenora
I preferred Alex Jones when he didn’t promote bizarre and unsubstantiated theories; back when he was Bill Hicks
@ opposable thumbs
It’s not the security you needed to worry about; it’s the Princess Royal. She’s a convicted criminal!
@ full metal ox
That is such a sad story. I know we shouldn’t remote diagnose, but that almost has shades of Capgras Syndrome.
@ gss ex-noob
I have nothing to add to your very valid point, but I didn’t want you to feel left out in my responses.
But overall, there’s just so much to unpack here. So many interrelated issues. People choosing their own realties. The role of media in pushing false narratives. Tribalism being more important than truth etc.
My area of interest is quite narrow. People misreporting or misunderstanding legal proceedings; and how people will no longer accept a court ruling that goes against their pre-existing convictions. Not that they don’t agree with it; but that it must be inherently flawed. Already seeing that with the Alex Jones result. The trial was flawed, the jury is stupid, the judge is biased etc.
I think it does tie in with the bigger picture. It’s the same mindset as the Jan 6 crowd.
The legal process didn’t find the election was rigged; therefore the legal process must have got it wrong; and thus you do not have to accept the ruling.
But back when some people called feminism “women’s lib,” those same people said that “women’s libbers” were lesbians. No, I don’t suppose manospherians will ever come up with coherent arguments.
We’re just having a legally nerdy discussion about the statutory cap on damages. Someone made a really interesting point:
“It’s funny how civil claims have maximums but criminal sentences have minimums.”
That was one of those stop you in your tracks things. Like was always aware, but never considered.
As a side note, I’m really glad to hear steps are being taken to address the medical records being tossed around. Honestly – who keeps med records on a phone? I’m having flashbacks to all those warnings our security team sends out on a semi-regular basis. Not to mention my last company’s client-facing documentation explaining that [Product X] did this, that, and the other thing to assure that PHI would remain protected; and where you could go to read the whitepapers explaining in more detail why it was safe and therefore a product you should buy.
Sheesh. All those years of sitting through educational modules going through the technical and the social engineering ways that could be used to violate HIPAA, and AJ’s team of chuckleheads does an infodump. Though I was glad to hear the plaintiff’s team did the right thing and zapped it when they realized what it was.
As another side note – @Alan, I watched your livestream from yesterday, and shared it with Mr. Parasol. Turns out he’s quite the BlackBeltBarrister fan and was delighted to see you.
@ Vicky P
Yeah. We have sometime called GDPR(s). That relates to all private information; not just medical. I must confess some of the new provisions people moan about, I really like. For example, we can’t do work on trains any more, and we’re not allowed to use the phone in public, even if we anonymise the parties. I do a lot of “Sorry, can’t talk, out and about, people can hear”. As someone who uses speciesist unironically, I don’t feel guilty that those people are cows.
Ooh, ask him to say hello next livestream. I really enjoy doing the things with Dan. It’s bewildering to me how popular they are. Dan now has set me up a channel of my own. I’m just so useless I haven’t done anything on there yet. It’s going to trend a bit more artsy and animal rights though.
Currently though people are still obsessed with ‘that’ trial (as I insist on calling it). It does throw up a lot of opportunities for talking about general legal subjects though. There’s some interesting stuff in the unsealed materials. Nothing that goes to the trial itself; but the transcripts of the motions and inter lawyer emails are something to behold.
I am aiming to do a video, possibly tomorrow, about whether Jones will have to cough up the full $45m punitive damages. That is turning out to be a less than obvious answer. Normally you would expect the judge to just deal with the cap straight after the verdict; as happened in that other trial. But of course this judge has made it very clear that she can’t stand Jones, or his lawyers. So even if he is entitled to the damages being knocked down, she ain’t going to be the one who does it.
@Alan
Those restrictions sound familiar – every year we’re reminded that it’s best not to do anything if you can be overheard or somebody can read over your shoulder, and of course there’s the ongoing reminder about what can and cannot be stored on various devices. Plus usually a little something about how if your work laptop is stolen, you’re only in trouble if you didn’t follow security protocol, which ranges from “did you make sure your car was locked?” to “did you do all the stuff the security IT folks tell you to do?”
Years of practice has made most of this second nature; most of my friends have only a vague idea of what I do for a living or who I work for. Fortunately most of my friends work for companies that also have strict non-disclosure policies, so if we do talk about work, it’s more about the personalities we encounter.
I’ll pass your invitation on to Mr. Parasol, thanks! Speaking of whom, we were talking about her this morning and sympathizing with her situation. OTOH, she’s a Texas woman, and we tend to be a resilient bunch.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/judge-maya-guerra-gamble-alex-jones/
@ Vicky P
This was a sad tale; although ultimately with a just outcome.
https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/04/sra-abandons-prosecution-of-junior-solicitor-who-lost-briefcase/
She certainly is. I love her.
It’s weird though, when the Jones fans say the judge obviously hates the defendant and is biased against him, we can only respond “well, yeah”. I don’t think her conduct is unjust though. She gave Jones & Co every opportunity.
Your article sums it up every well.
This seems to be an opportune excuse to share John Scalzi’s recipe for Schadenfreude Pie. (I presume interested parties could substitute olive or coconut oil and apricot gel for the butter and eggs):
https://whatever.scalzi.com/2006/09/26/how-to-make-a-schadenfreude-pie/
@FMOx: While on the topic of Scalzi-isms, do we think AJ still has candy in him?
(perhaps a tipstaff could be used for the pinata)
@GSS ex-noob:
While on the topic of Scalzi-isms, do we think AJ still has candy in him?
(perhaps a tipstaff could be used for the pinata)
I like the way you think, but that candy would likely be unsafe for consumption—being full of horse meds, colloidal silver, and assorted dubious virility-enhancing snake oils. (1)
(1) Almost certainly not containing actual snake oil—much less the correct Chinese species, Enhydris chinensis, which does contain the omega-3 fatty acids common to much aquatic wildlife and have some therapeutic value.
(That, by the way, is how the term “snake oil” came to denote quack nostrums. Chinese expats in the U.S. Wild West imported a picturesque folk remedy from the Old Country—whereupon medicine-show hucksters, catering to white colonizers’ perpetual fascination with Mysterious Health Secrets from Otherlandia, proceeded to peddle knockoffs. With Chinese water snakes being in short supply and the FDA not yet even a gleam in Upton Sinclair’s eye, these often had as base local rattlesnakes—when the manufacturers even bothered that much; a lot of purported snake oils were made from plain old suet or lard; one analysis revealed mineral oil, beef fat, red pepper, and turpentine [ https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/fun-fact-what-was-snake-oil-used-to-treat-in-the-american-west-in-the-19th-century ].(2)
(2) Also not to be confused with Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab’s signature fragrance Snake Oil, a beautiful vanilla/patchouli/spice perfume marketed with Gothic drama galore but without medical pretense. Or actual reptilian content: https://blackphoenixalchemylab.com/shop/general-catalog-perfume-oils/ars-amatoria/snake-oil/)
We’ve done our livestream on whether Jones will in fact have to pay the full $45.2m.
If you don’t want to wade through all that, the short answer is, it’s far from straightforward. He certainly has grounds for arguing he shouldn’t.
His depictions of judiciary on fire though may not exactly endear him to the appeal court.
Well, word has gone out that Alex Jones’ texts have been turned over to the January 6 committee:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/politics/alex-jones-january-6/index.html
@ Vicky P
I don’t know if you saw the relevant hearing, but Bankston was positively gleeful in how he asked at the start “Can we just check the livestream is working? We’ve had a lot of requests from government agencies and law enforcement who want to see this…”
But I understand they sent the Dropbox link the moment the hearing was concluded and the judge had said it wasn’t her job to stand in the way of Congress.
And as to the SNAFU generally; more commentary here.
@Alan
I’ve mostly seen clips of the hearings – this is a big local news story to us, in addition to the national/international audience. But yeah. I heard Jones’ attorney asked Judge Gamble to save them from the big scary feds, and Her Honor said, basically, “It’s not my job to save you from your own stupidity.”
@ Vicky P
Another lawyer’s discussion of what happened here, focusing on the mechanics of cross-examination.
@ Vicky P
I like his analysis; and very much agree.
We don’t have televised trials as such here (*see below); so the US ones do present us with an opportunity to illustrate advocacy points. Both on our vids; but also when we do the formal advocacy training.
This was a very good example of what we call confronting with a previous inconsistent statement.
It was almost a model of how to do it. That may not be surprising as both here and in the US a lot of trainers use the National Institute of Trial Advocacy methodolgy. NITA also had the best advocacy trainer in the world. Irving Younger. He was amazing.
But the trick is to paint them into a corner, with no wriggle room, before pouncing.
This is what televised court proceedings are like here. Not quite as spectacular as across the pond. CW for content.
@Alan
I’m certainly no attorney of any stripe, but I do analysis every day as part of my job, and sometimes that involves discovering who on the other side screwed up. From that perspective, I can appreciate Bankston’s methodical approach to the situation.
I like that we got to see more of Judge Gamble in the Legal Eagle vid. You really get a better sense of her approach to the whole mess. As Mr. Parasol has commented to me, if his mum spoke to him in that tone of voice, he’d already be apologizing.
(My mum-in-law is a lovely woman, and I’ve never heard her use that tone of voice. But nobody wants to disappoint her, so she doesn’t have to use it.)
In contrast, Jones’ attorney reminds me of the guys I knew at uni who were sloppy with their coursework and tried to charm their way out of trouble. Pfft.
@ Vicky P
My admiration for the judge has attracted a few Alex Jones’ fans who do not agree with my appraisal; to put it mildly. We have agreed to differ. Well, I’ve agreed, they want me executed for treason. That does give me a jumping off point for a video about R -v- Joyce. That might actually appeal to them; it is a sort of limits of free speech case.
Jones’ lawyer though! Now I am loathe to comment on another lawyer generally. Litigation is hard, and we all make cock-ups. I can use the televised trials for examples; but a lot of the time we just teach from our own experiences. I think the new barristers find it reassuring when we list off a litany of personal embarrassments.
But well, wow. In a way his totally unapologetic crapness is almost awe inspiring; he just owns it. It’s like he saw a casting call for Hollywood stereotypical sleazy lawyer; and decided that was his brand. No-one chooses that haircut unironically.
He looks like within ten minutes after each hearing he’s in a clip joint snorting coke off a lap-dancer’s arse.
And that he’d be perfectly unphased for that to be his description in Legal 500.
@FMOx: Nobody eats the candy that comes out of a prefilled pinata anyway. Particularly when it’s this old. We’ll send it to a Superfund site. Far away from any snakes.
Black Phoenix does lovely work.
@VP: That still from the video made me think, “Gurning. That’s textbook gurning, and he’s not even trying like old guys in contests do.” Looks like he’s had something large shoved up his butt. Like JUSTICE. (Or maybe a tipstaff)
Never ask a question in court that you don’t know the answer to. And don’t let them know you’re going to ask it. And try not to grin when you do, but in this case, we’ll make an exception. Lawyer was perfectly correct to make sure the livestream was working, and did at least refrain from a fist pump or doing some Cabbage Patching on air.
@Alan: I read (well, skimmed through) that and was wondering what happened to the guy, since his name didn’t ring a bell, but Wikipedia provides and I said “Oh, Lord Haw-Haw!”
But just reading what the Law Lords said there, I was already convinced he was a treasonous bastard before I realized he was a famous treasonous bastard.
@ Vicky P
This may interest you. Jones’ lawyers have been summonsed to appear before the judge.
It’s to do with the release of the confidential medical information.
Because of the nature of the material being discussed this hearing is not being televised. We have someone in the court though who’s been given permission to live tweet.
Judge is very unhappy with them.
And we’ve just heard that she’s adjourned the hearing so they can lawyer up themselves.
That’s never a good sign.
@Alan
I had a feeling that was going to happen. I’ve had to report some suspected HIPAA violations from time to time, and even though I’ve never had to be involved in a court case about it, the standard ethics and HIPAA training emphasizes that you don’t release PHI (except under specific circumstances, and when in doubt, check with your manager or the corporate HIPAA team or both).
As I said before, keeping medical records on a phone is NOT COOL. I mentioned a product of my old company – without getting into proprietary stuff (‘cos NDA), the PHI itself was kept elsewhere. You could get to it via a smartphone, but you’d have to jump through some authentication hoops, and while I can think of some ways to capture the PHI (which I won’t describe), you’d have to work at it. So again I wonder why anybody would store medical records on a phone.
Right now, I wouldn’t trust Jones’ legal team to pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.
@ Vicky P
We would have to self report to the BSB had that happened here. We have to self report for any potential breaches of our handbook. We also have to report anybody else’s misconduct we become aware of*.
And we have all sorts of rules about keeping information. We have to be registered with the Information Commissioners Office. Everything digital has to be stored with super secret squirrel encryption. Physical documents have to be in safes. We have to destroy information as soon as we’re legally allowed to etc.
They do take breaches really seriously. And we get bollocked (and fined/disbarred etc) by both the BSB and ICO if we cock up. So there’s quite an incentive not to.
But yeah, this is serious. Texas lawyers seem to think he’ll avoid disbarment; but he is very likely to be sanctioned.
(* It was the case that people who were victims of misconduct were obliged to report it; as was anyone who knew about it. There seems to be a more understanding approach now that it’s up to the victim whether the matter should be reported.)
@Alan
Sounds familiar. Whenever I’ve had to report a (suspected or actual) violation, it’s either because a co-worker made a mistake (for one of those, I had to write them up because I was their team lead) or on one memorable occasion, another vendor had screwed up pretty royally. On that last occasion, thankfully other processes kicked in so that no patient data was compromised, but since that particular vendor was already on our naughty list, their carelessness didn’t do them any favors.
I’ve forgotten exactly what the fine is for a HIPAA violation these days (to a humble geek girl like me, it’s big money) in addition to being grounds for termination. Plus it’s embarrassing as heck. When I had to call my boss to report the vendor screw-up, we were both wound up pretty tightly, even though there was no question of this being our fault. I didn’t sleep well that night, and didn’t really calm down until my boss was able to tell me, “It’s okay – no actual compromise happened because of X, Y, and Z.”
All of which is a long way to say that I am really appalled and offended that Jones’ legal team was so sloppy, and I am glad that Bankston did what you’re supposed to do: delete medical records that you are not allowed to have.
@Alan: So the terrible lawyer who let the confidential info out of the bag is going to have a mark on his Permanent Record (like we were threatened in school?). Which will show when anybody checks him out?
That’s going to cut his business even further, after the LOLs of this trial fade.
Even rednecks know violating HIPAA is bad (though they usually spell it wrong). He’s definitely out of the ambulance-chasing business, and the fake slip and fall scam.
When the lawyer has to lawyer up, that is srs bzness.