Let’s take another brief excursion to the Incels.is forums, where one prolific poster is setting forth a slightly new version of an old incel folk belief — namely, that being raped is really much less traumatic than being an incel.
So many bad arguments here. Just because a women says yes to sex with particular men doesn’t mean she’s saying yet to every man who wants to, er, penetrate her hole. Nor does it mean that raping a “foid” is basically the equivalent to shoplifting or denting a person’s car.
Naturally, though, most of the commenters agree close to a hundred percent with Mr. Deleted Member.
“PIV rape should be a mild annoyance to women at worst,” offers BiryaniCel. “Vaginas were meant to be penetrated. Anal rape is traumatizing though.”
“[C]omplaints of sexual abuse or molestation should only be taken seriously in case of the victim being children or male,” adds another since-deleted commenter.
In a followup comment, the same commenter offers up the thought that
If rape was so traumatizing, and if they’re really avert to it, then women wouldn’t dresses sluttish, nor they demeanor wouldn’t be so provocative and uncaring. the only aversion they’ve is to low-value males.
Sign. This belief about “dressing sluttish” — which is held by many backwards people outside the incelosphere — is why we needed the slut walks in the first place.
“My theory,” explains Divergent_Integral,
is that a large part of the psychological trauma caused by rape stems from societal imprinting that it’s literally the worst thing that can happen to a foid (short of murder). If a foid were to be brought up in a social vacuum, she herself would never come up with the notion that rape is the most awful and traumatizing thing possible. If anything, such a foid would view rape as a minor inconvenience at the most.
This is strikingly similar to Men’s Rights guru Warren Farrell’s take on incest (that is, sexual abuse) — that girls are traumatized by it largely because “girls are much more influenced by the dictates of society and are more willing to take on sexual guilt.”
In another comment, Divergent_Integral adds,
Rape can accurately be defined as ugly men having sex. Period. No need to invoke concepts like consent or force. For even if a foid initially concedes to having sex with an unattractive male, she will soon regret it (or her girlfriends will do so for her) and “realize” that her consent was given either under duress or under false pretext. That is to say, she will redefine her sexual encounter with the ugly male as rape; regardless of what actually happened.
A commenter called Mainländer has this to say:
I suffered so much at the hands of women that my capacity to empathize with them is limited to extremely bad stuff. If a foid is tortured to death, yeah, I’ll feel bad for her. But expecting me to feel bad for some slut who drank too much in some party and some normie with a face below her standards fucked her, when most foids have a “rape kink”? I just can’t take it seriously.
In another comment, Mainlander twists the argument into a justification for statutory rape.
If you think about it, one of feminism’s main goals is making sure normie and below men can’t have any ways of ascending outside of betabuxxing some old roastie.
Can’t ascend with drunken foids, can’t try to just be first with super young foids, etc.
All I can really say at this point is “ugh.”
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@ fred
The vegan thing came to mind as I was reading this. But you articulated the point perfectly.
To some lobster is a delicacy; to me they’re ten* legged friends. Hence all this.
But, if we’re comparing people to food (“Shall I compare thee to a Lancashire hotpot?”) it goes further. There are lots of foods I love; but I don’t always fancy them all the time. One day I might crave beans on toast; but the next day I just can’t face it. I might want something else. I might not want anything. So if you tried to force feed me BoT then it wouldn’t be a defence to say I enjoyed it yesterday.
I’m sure I don’t need to labour the point that that analogy can be extrapolated to humans relationships.
(*not eight apparently)
@ Fred B-C
Ummm… What?
@.45: I’ve pointed out in the past that ideologies only win out by coercion or emotional resonance; being morally or ethically or even objectively correct is neither sufficient nor necessary for an ideology to be adopted on larger population scales. Coercion nearly always backfires if not backed up by use of force, which is what I’m pretty sure the “gun” is a metaphor for here. Regardless, we shouldn’t be using coercion at all when possible, as while it may occasionally be necessary it’s not very compatible with what the Left stands for. Emotional resonance is the harder path, though, particularly when you also need to be correct in some sense.
Jump “from”? Makes me picture a tiny person standing on a penis and jumping off that one onto another one. Which doesn’t sound very respectful! And probably painful for the people with penises! So if women are doing that, they should probably stop. 🙂
@Fred B-C, @.45 – one singular gun! Just one. But seriously, the whole pro- or anti-firearms thing might depend on where you’re from and what experiences you’ve had. I’ve been lucky in that gun violence hasn’t affected me personally, but I also don’t live in the U.S., so it’s not something I think about a lot. To me, though, having peaceful influence is more important than having force. But I don’t know if this is me being sensible or just idealistic.
Speaking of countries, I am curious if you want to share: does the “BC” in your name stand for British Columbia? (I live in Quebec.)
@epitome: Even worse if they’re full-sized women! They might break one of the preshus dicks if they’re leaping about on and off them!
I suppose incels would be just fine having forced sex with a woman they weren’t attracted to, right? Sex is sex, right?
No? Gosh.
What scares me is one of these….people…..managing to get on a jury for a rape trial. Especially if the victim isn’t a “perfect” victim.
Oh look, Squack is imploring a Mammotheer to rethink their plan of action. This from a person whose plan of action is to troll us.
@.45: You seem to be misunderstanding. There’s an or after that. My point is exactly what Snowberry argued. I was using “a gun” as a synecdoche for large-scale industrialized force.
So we can either coerce our way into change (which, to be clear, is sometimes going to be necessary, even if that’s just through some governmental reforms which are backed up by violent and coercive power ultimately) or we can convince our way through. There may be other approaches, but those tend to be the big ones.
And the problem is that the left is not the right. We want a world with cooperation instead of force, peace instead of war, personal development instead of destruction, etc. Every use of the fundamental logic of oppression reinforces it. In particular, the kind of people who are willing to bash in heads have personality profiles that tend to lead away from left-wing outcomes.
@Kat: I doubt he really is imploring anything. He’s just talking. He may be in a debate club and is learning that you can always make an objection. Hopefully one day he’ll learn it is a personal and moral duty to make good ones.
Like Swan Lake in slow motion, but with penises?
Squack apparently imagines the casu marzu will be served by a smiling waiter with a candlelit tablecloth place setting, and the diner is free to eat as much or as little as they want. The supermodel, similarly, will come with mood lighting and be passively waiting on a featherbed to fulfill his every fantasy. He’s erased violence and lack of consent right out of the scene, which was the entire point.
These guys don’t get it, and they don’t want to get it.
@Buttercup
Either that or Squack hears “force-feeding” and thinks that means something like “I had to eat it if I wanted dessert” rather than “food forced into your mouth and down your esophagus.”
…or, you know, Dipshit is a moron and didn’t actually think through any of the implications of his comment.
My money is on “moron.”
Or Squack is a terrible person and feels the need to inflict this terribleness on us.
Porque no los dos?
Si, son los dos.
Also, Squack/Acid Kritana is posting some seriously concerning stuff elsewhere:
https://acidmensrights.wordpress.com/2022/03/25/why-as-a-trans-man-im-going-to-mutilate-my-genitalia-soon/
@GSS ex-noob:
@Buttercup Q. Skullpants:
Like Swan Lake in slow motion, but with penises?
The Nutcracker Suite!
@ Squack
I suspect you don’t know what force feeding involves, so I’ll tell you. First the subject is restrained, particularly the hands so that they can not interfere with the feeding process. Then their head is forced back and the mouth clamped open, in places where force feeding was common there would be a specific apparatus to do this, other wise whatever could be converted to clamping the mouth open would be used, no care would be taken to avoid damaging the tongue or lips. Then a tube would be threaded down the throat, if lucky this would be done by someone who knew what they were doing and the tube would end up in the stomach, if unlucky it would end up in the lungs. A funnel would be attached to the tube, and finally liquidised food would be poured down the funnel. So you see if you were to be force fed it would be quite irrelevant whether you loved the food, you wouldn’t taste it. Oh and if you werree unlucky and the tube went into your lungs? You might well drown, if you survived the immediate feeding you woud get pnuemonia which you might not survive.
Still fancy being force fed your favourite food?
Super Mario Bros.
@Snowberry:
And really only the latter. Coercion can make people pay outward lip service to believing whatever it is they have to pay outward lip service to believing lest they be burned at the stake as a heretic, but it doesn’t actually convince them to actually believe it. I would have thought the Trump years were enough to make that clear: all the racism that had “disappeared” after civil rights laws were passed and visible bigotry had become increasingly stigmatized in public just came boiling right back to the surface as soon as it looked possible to get away with public displays of bigotry again.
The women in Great Britain who agitated for the vote and were arrested for their pains were often force-fed. The process was very painful, as Jazzlet points out, but these women were willing to suffer so that they — and the generations of women to follow — had that right.
Suffragette’s account of force-feeding goes on museum displayCharlotte Marsh wrote to fellow prisoner in 1909: ‘Won’t it seem funny to eat again?’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/22/suffragettes-account-of-force-feeding-manchester-peoples-history-museum
Would someone mind explaining why I was locked out of the site for roughly half an hour, ending a few minutes before the timestamp on this comment?
I did nothing to warrant such treatment, or to deserve having everything else I had planned for today delayed by that amount. I think compensation is owed me. Half an hour at the minimum wage where I am would be seven dollars. Since someone else took half an hour of my time I think it is fair to charge them at least that much, perhaps plus additional damages for their failure to let me choose whether to spend that half hour doing what I wanted to do or doing what they wanted me to do. Now who is the person responsible for this incident?
Squack/the-kid-of-many-names seems to be someone who, due to a lack of positive attention from others, has learned to get negative attention any which way because it’s better than no attention at all.
@Surplus
It wasn’t just you. The site was briefly down for maintenance.
I wasn’t notified of any planned maintenance.
In the future, any such is to be announced at least 24 hours in advance via a top-level post on the site (which can also serve as an open thread), so we can plan around it (e.g. wait until after to catch up and not get interrupted in the middle, while having to hold onto mental state keeping track of what’s done and what still needs to be checked and thus unable to do much else in the meantime).
@ surplus
Unfortunately maintenance cannot always be planned in advance. You have to deal with issues as they arise. Otherwise you get a rod going through your engine block (or is that just me?). And sometimes it’s out of the website owner’s hands. It might be general WordPress thing.
And really David has enough on his plate without adding such notifications to his task. It’s a bit unfair to impose yet another burden on him.
I do appreciate you find these things frustrating. But they’re just part of the vicissitude of life. You just have to get a bit Marcus Aurelius about such matters.
“When men make plans, Allah laughs.”
Thank you, Alan. Signed, a level 3 tech support gal.
@ Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Indeed, I was taught about the suffragettes in history at school, including the force feeding. One of a very few lessons that has stuck with me for decades.