Not all incels spend their time fantasizing about being the next Elliot Rodger. No, some of them are less interested in contemplating mass murder than they are thinking about rape and other forms of abuse.
Over on the Incels.is forums, a prolific commenter calling himself SlayerSlayer argues that murder isn’t as intrinsically interesting as ongoing abuse. It’s “all so calculating,” he writes.
Nothing about it is animalistic or hedonistic. I don’t even consider murder that evil. I mean, in some ways you are putting people out of their misery. The tendency is that you don’t even know the people you murder too. How is that satisfying??? There is no more gratification killing a random human than there is to murder a dog, or a cow. Murder is generally a fast death compared to the many ways you can die.
So you’re almost doing people a favor by killing them.
By contrast, he continues,
An abuser abuses all his life and lives happily. They abuse because they don’t have a care for rules at all. There’s just something more alpha and masculine about abusing those weaker than you and wanting to live and be happy and naturally have your way thru sheer physical force and intimidation. You look forward to your life being better at the expense of others. There is a satisfaction in basking in the meekness of others.
But abuse can’t be truly satisfying unless there’s some sort of real connection between the abuser and the abused.
Abuse isn’t torture, and for some reason I am not into it. I am not a pure sadist in that I would not find it satisfying to inflict pain on others for its own sake. There’s no connection there. No context. Abuse is abuse BECUASE of some kind of strong, lasting bond that tethers you together. It’s being a happy retard tard socking a tetherball on a stick all day. There is tactile sensation in a punch or choke.
Abuse is almost loving.
In a fucked up way, abuse is a form of love. It’s about feeling secure that you can be a really flawed person and still be enough to hold that relationship together.
In a followup comment, he elaborates on his love for “redneck” abuse.
The abuse I find more appealing is about being a trashy wife beater, not a Havery Weinstein sort of power boss sort of thing. It seems like Harvey became a slave to the power.
Well, that’s one (incredibly wrong) way of looking at it, I guess.
Whereas if you are a fucking redneck who fucks his cousin and punches her when she doesn’t make me a sandwich– thats more about a man asserting his dominance
A better way to put it– harvey’s style of abuse is something arises out of insecurity. He abused them because he never got the girls as a teen, and wants payback. Redneck abuse comes out of a place of security, He does it because the bitch was stupid, and needed to be put in her place.
A self-describes “fascel” called Lv99_BixNood agrees with Mr. Slayer’s argument:
There’s probably nothing more satisfying than beating the shit out of a hole and knowing she will still stay because she’ll never find a guy as good-looking as you again. Only works for Chads of course.
Anyone who thinks incels can be “cured” by finding them girlfriends, or even just encouraging them to visit a sex worker, should reconsider. No one deserves to have to put up with these guys and the swirling rage hiding (not very successfully) behind their façade of normality.
Follow me on Mastodon.
Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.
We Hunted the Mammoth relies on support from you, its readers, to survive. So please donate here if you can, or at David-Futrelle-1 on Venmo.
I’ve lived around a lot of those “redneck stupid bitch holes” and let me tell you what happened when the redneck abuser abused them.
So yeah, Trashy redneck women put down the dogs they lie with. Just incase the poor little incel didn’t know.
This is one of the many things I just don’t get about incels; even from their own perspective.
Isn’t it a defining trait of traditional masculinity that you protect those weaker than yourself? I can’t imagine anything less masculine than bullying the vulnerable; it’s like the antithesis.
I’ve never understood why you’d attempt to demonstrate strength by subjugating only those who can’t fight back. It’s advertising cowardice. Even in the traditional masculine depiction of inter personal violence heroes fight against the odds. They adapt, improvise, and overcome. Even fiction, myth, and legend recognises there’s nothing heroic about a cakewalk.
“We are 300 Spartans! How many are you Parthians?”
“There’s three of us. Mix up with the ferry crossing.”
“Oh. Er, well tell Herodotus to bump up the numbers a bit.”
He’ll die alone.
@Alan Robertshaw
I suspect the reason is because, at least to the likes of Incels and their fellow travelers; that established rubric isn’t the script of “traditional masculinity” that appeals to them nor do they idolize. The form of “traditional masculinity” that such ilk appears to uphold, value and advocate for; is the seeming notion of “masculinity” as power and power as a means of dominance and the concept of taking that toward and dominance as a bestowed right to not defend; but to attack, to engage in belligerence and to do so to display and exert power, control and enforcing their dominance upon others, and the resultant feeding and satiation of their own ego when doing so.
I don’t know if their are far more educated and researched sources, persons and essays on the subject, but at least given my personal experience navigating these kind of men even as a man myself: intuitively this seems to be the whole ideological paradigm that such men, like Incels and MGTOW’s, but also other various reactionaries and ilk cut from similar cloth, like Nazi’s, White Supremacists, Christian Fundamentalist Domminionists, Fascists, Homophobes, Transphobes, GamerGate and the various other members of the rouges gallery of bigotry and hate; which these various groups seem to adhere to and their actions, behavior and rhetoric seem to indicate.
To them, Masculinity isn’t a mere state of being, nor a trait that anyone across the gender spectrum can express and hold; it is a weapon to use as cudgel against others and a tool to uphold their power and dominance they inflict against others and the only remote “protection and defense” that comes close into the ballpark of use for them is as a shield for their own ego and dysfunctional insecurity and fears, deluded hatreds, and myopic, self aggrandizing, chauvinist egos.
All the same, it’s a notion of masculinity that I find to be utter trash and never bought into. Frankly it’s a notion that I’m actively and openly hostile to because of it’s amorality and how disconnected and toxic it is.
So a Chad lording it over Incels is bullying and therefore bad, but an Incel managing to dominate a woman is masculine and alpha, therefore good?
As a side note, it seems most abusers are miserable assholes, taking it out on anyone in their power. Not saying that excuses anything, just that the claim abusers live charmed lives is dubious at best.
@Elaine
Is that 6 separate instances of Women dealing with abusive spouses or…
@Fabe
oh yeah, this was 6 different people. But imagine if it was all the same 2 people lol. Be like a Reba song then.
Dude’s really underselling rednecks here. There are probably federal agents buried somewhere on their property from the Prohibition days and you think you’re going to smack them around and get away with it?
When they actually tell the truth about themselves…
Yes, put the typo in ALL CAPS.
Make you a sandwich? No, I’m sure you think this is a pretty story of a brotherhood of batterers, but a batterer isn’t going to fight your battles about male dominance for you.
Yeah, enough of a violent asshole that she’s afraid to run — because she knows you’ll come looking for her. Also, you didn’t allow her to have a job, so she has no money, or friends, so she has no support network. That said, sometimes a person — in this case, a battered woman — has to make a way out of no way. Shoutout to all the battered women who did just this. Much love. Much admiration. And to the ones who haven’t made it out yet, call a battered women’s hotline. If you think the batterer will search your phone, delete those calls from your Call History. I’m rooting for you. ♥♥♥
@alanrobertshaw – thank you for the phrase “it’s like advertising cowardice” – I have always been mystified at the idea that hurting someone weaker than yourself somehow proves one’s superiority, it never made any sense at all to me.
“Slayerslayer” is an abhorrent coward who has completely failed at being a human being.
@elaine- I will have to check the details, but in the forties and fifties in Australia there was a readily available rat poison present in most Australian homes, and when the law was changed to restrict and record its purchase, apparently the rate of unexplained sudden male deaths dropped noticeably.
I sense a strong undercurrent of admiration, almost love, for batterers inDouble Slayer’s writings. I cant psychanalyse these incels. That’s beyond my capabilities. However, he wants to be the abuse victim. That he is fantasizing a “Chad” (as oppossed to a morbidly obese movie producer) as being the bestest, mightiest abuser in the world, I’d wager that he would get off being the submissive partner of a muscular alpha in a BDSM situation, but toxic masculinity refuses to allow him to get there.
Im assuming that SS is presuming he’d be rejected by the BDSM scene, or really, any sexual activity, hes left to creating degrading head dramas, where da alpha bro is his idol. Thats how it reads to me- that he is identifying (not emphasizing with what he considers to be the woman’s role, in deference to his ideal man. To an incel, being female, or “feminized” is the most degrading role he can think of, thus perfectly natural for him.
I know a few people here are involved in consenual BDSM. I’m not, but I’ve always been interested in the dynamics of gender and and cultural sexual mores. I’d be interested in whether this rings true to those in tune with that community. Mind you, I’m not suggesting that the roleplay role actually involves degradation or abuse, just that that is the only way he can conceptualize being a “sub”.
Speaking of people not competent to analyse other’s minds, particularly that incels, how the fuck is it possible that Jordan Peterson is a practicing psychologist? My mind is boggled.
BTW, SS, abuse IS torture
Ugh, you’re finding the really nasty ones lately, David. Still, good to expose them for what they are and hope fervently that they’re getting put on a watch list, if they’re not already.
I dunno, tell that one to the families of all the murder victims who died slowly. You complete and utter asshole.
For those who don’t lash out with abuse because they’re already miserable, this is unfortunately true, from what I’ve seen. And fuck you for thinking that’s a good thing.
bUt tHeRe’s nO sUcH tHiNg aS tOxIc mAsCuLiNiTy, amirite?
Yes it fucking is, you piece of shit.
No it fucking isn’t, you piece of shit, no matter how many times you, other abusers, abuse enablers, or even abuse victims repeat this garbage.
Cool. Wanna feel it for yourself? No no no, from the receiving end.
So trashy = classy? Insecure toxics assholes “asserting their dominance” (committing acts of violence) against helpless individuals = “secure”? What ass-backward dimension did you ooze out of and how quickly can we shove you back in?
tl;dr Go fornicate an entire cactus patch, you abuse fetishizing fuckstain.
(Decided to put all that under the spoiler tag because I’m just an avalanche of rage here. I do wish it wouldn’t automatically put everything in italics, though. Can that be tweaked?)
@Elaine
Wow… Just…
I’m not saying those assholes didn’t have it coming, but. Damn. I guess I feel fortunate that I don’t know that many abuse victims (probably because then I’d be in prison).
Hugs?
@Hexum7
No, don’t start this armchair reverse psychology thing here. That’s almost as bad as “this raging homophobe is probably a Queen buried deep in the closet” type thinking. This is a misogynistic asshole having violent fantasies about how much he’d like to abuse women. Don’t try to reverse this into some sympathetic hidden kink. He is a repulsive creature who has just told us exactly who he is in so much graphic detail. Fuck him.
Apropos of nothing, I think we need an Open Thread at least once a month, preferably with kittens. Who wants kittens?
@Hexum
I sense a strong undercurrent of bullshit:
“I can’t psychoanalyze these guys, obviously, but let me tell you how I know that what they really want is a big dommy daddy.”
@David
Nitpicking, I know, but why does that thing say “Awaiting for Approval?” Shouldn’t it be “awaiting approval” or “waiting for approval?” “Awaiting for” just sounds weird.
Maybe capybaras as well as kittens, they are so calm and friendly. I am really enjoying the Jorts (and Jean) Twitter thread, a great combination of kindness to oneself and others and successful unionising activism by two cats, one of them a boofhead ginger charmer. An antidote to the dregs David alerts us to, and a reminder that there are many people doing good things in the world.
Of all the reasons women stay with batterers, “he’s good looking” is near the bottom of the list.
That…also describes non-abusive relationships.
If you have to literally hold women hostage in order for them to be around you, then perhaps you’re not the manly alpha stud you think you are.
@Elaine The Witch
Good. For. Them. In my better moments, I’m all about rehabilitation, but after reading this incel nonsense: Sounds like they got what was coming to them.
I’ve read that woman-abusers – and child abusers – are at the bottom of the prison totem pole. I have anecdotal evidence, as well.
Regarding how weak and pathetic and cowardly this admiration for using one’s strength to hurt those too weak to stop it, it brings to mind the contrast between this and childhood role models of mine such as Superman and He-Man.
They have more power than just about anyone, but are defined by using that power to help and protect those weaker than they are. And even when this requires them to use their power against others, they use force as a last resort and only the minimum force necessary.
One of the directions that the He-Man and the Masters of the Universe voice director gave He-Man’s voice actor John Edwin was “Be strong enough to be gentle.” That may as well be moon-speech to these people.
@.45
If that were true, none of the people I know whose partners were abusive – myself included – would have gotten involved.
So if I go to an incel site and post that I want to beat the shit out of all the incels on there, then obviously the reason they don’t like me is because of my wrist size….
@ Gaebolga
Don’t be silly, it’s not just wrist size.
There’s also canthal tilt.
@Fabe:
Is that 6 separate instances of Women dealing with abusive spouses or…
@Elaine The Witch
oh yeah, this was 6 different people. But imagine if it was all the same 2 people lol. Be like a Reba song then.
Or like this real-life example of Murder on the Missouri State Express: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy
I’m reminded of something Mr. Parasol is fond of saying: “Their logic is not like our Earth logic.”