Wikipedia faces a deeply rooted man problem, the problem being that they have proportionately way too many of them writing and editing the site. Indeed, a 2018 survey found that 90 percent of Wikipedia editors are men; only 8.8 percent are women.
This incredibly lopsided gender imbalance leads to sometime curious results. Consider: Wikipedia’s article on International Women’s Day, an official holiday in more than two dozen countries, and celebrated (officially or not) by hundreds of millions of people worldwide, has a Wikipedia entry that is a little over 3000 words long. International Men’s Day, an obscure holiday celebrated by virtually no one, has somehow gotten itself a Wikipedia entry of nearly 8000 words, well more than double the number of words in the IWD entry.
Perhaps even more tellingly, less than twenty percent of the biographies featured on Wikipedia are devoted to women despite women making up, you know, literally half the population.
Wikipedia has made many (largely fruitless) attempts over the years to narrow its deeply ingrown gender gap, recently launching a new initiative designed to “celebrate women” by encouraging women and others to pull together new biographies of notable women for the site in honor of International Women’s Day and Women’s History Month.
Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars are pretty sure there haven’t been enough notable women over the course of human history to merit such an effort.
“”Wouldn’t people have digged up that stuff already?” writes someone called Parzival_007.
I mean if we have to dig up more, we would have to write about ordinary things presented extraordinary. Unless I am wrong about my first presumption of course.
Other commenters sarcastically suggest that Wikipedia’s volunteers write up biographies of ex-girlfriends and the literal woman next door. “Can i do one about Cassie the girl I dated right after college who developed a oxy addiction and robbed my grandmother’s medicine cabinet,” asks someone called Oxynewbdone.
“The ‘problem’ is that there weren’t enough notable females in history to make up that [gender] gap, because history was made by men,” declares shadowfalcon76.
And I mean that literally, as in all the notable women of history already have articles, and yet men did so much more in the past that their contributions just simply outnumber women by orders of magnitude.
You would have to make stories up wholesale from fiction to make up that gap, because human history was simply dominated by men as a matter of course. That’s not a judgment call or anything, just literal fact. Can’t really justify posting articles to Wikipedia without verifiable sources and making up fake people.
Bahard9 agrees:
The problem is they’re artificially increasing the historical female presence in their articles when women did less notable things than men for the development of mankind. That’s a fact.
It’s just like “affermative actions” – when girls get easier tests to access traditionally male-lead faculties.
Airforce987 adds:
For thousands of years of recorded history, it was almost exclusively men that were talked about. The women that were notable already have in depth articles. We can’t go and find more women to write biographies about if there’s no source to draw from.
Frosty-Gate-8094, meanwhile, thinks he’s figured out just why there are, in his mind, so few notable women in the world. It’s because men were willing to risk their lives and careers to invent new things, while women sat on their butts eating bon bons.
“Women weren’t overlooked, he declares.
They simply preferred to take the safer route to life. Scientific inventions were risky and uncertain. Including risk of death or being ostracized (Gallileo).
See how women behaved when Russia attacked Ukraine. That’s the exact reason why women didn’t make big scientific contributions. When faced with challenges, women flee. Men do not have that choice.
I really hope none of these guys are Wikipedia editors.
Follow me on Mastodon.
Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.
We Hunted the Mammoth relies on support from you, its readers, to survive. So please donate here if you can, or at David-Futrelle-1 on Venmo.
Well. If women hadn’t been taught to read, they couldn’t have been able to lie in bed reading, now could they! Of course, they would still be eating the bonbons.
?orAyF6w1BtaDQAJY4m1hRAfqAmLu8Uid&size=770:433
Digged?
@Megi Stardust
Man-brains: they’re simple.
I can’t help but think that it’s likely true that there are fewer historical records of women of note than men– considerably fewer.
I also can’t help but think that’s less likely to be because women weren’t doing anything notable, but rather that when they did– they weren’t noted.
When most of the writers are male, in a male dominated society, are writing under a presupposition that men do everything, it’s easy to overlook it when women do do something. And that’s been pretty much the case from antiquity to recent times, sadly.
I suspect that the imbalance is less Wikipedia editors ignoring women’s contributions, and more the lack of records due to ancient writers ignoring women’s contributions. And unfortunately, you can’t write on undocumented history.
Just a thought…
@ Gaebolga…lol…
These guys haven’t heard of any accomplished women. Therefore none exist.
Holy hell, I figured it’d be skewed, but by that much?? Is that just regular/”official” editors and not just the random people who contribute?
@Alan
Thank you. Always quick on the draw.
@Robert Haynie
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
Of course, it isn’t all completely unwritten, just ignored. Some of it could be found with just a little more research and effort. For these douchebags, it was apparently too much effort to remember the few women they were taught about in history class.
Let’s not forget that when women are considered notable, it is often because of their sway over men with their sexy sexiness, like say, Cleopatra. So they tend to speak about her beauty as opposed to her political acumen or knowledge.
Yes, let’s:
https://twitter.com/TsybulskaLiubov/status/1500075457798189057
When I was a kid I loved the book “Men of mathematics.” In the intro, the author straight up says there were no women, hence the title. Even kid me knew this was nonsense – at least partly because my father pointed out women who were mathematicians, from Hypatia through Emmy Noether.
My mother inundated me with history, biography, and historical novels about women who were in other fields.
Which may be why preteen me knew of Cleopatra as the first (and only) ruler of Ptolemaic Egypt who was fluent in Egyptian as well as Greek, who was noted for her building projects and imperial aims.
This reminds me of a lecture I attended at my local zoo (I was a volunteer there for 10 years). A female zoologist wanted to study monkeys and apes. Her research focused on baboons (I think), specifically the female baboons and their relationships. She realized that most of the community structure and activity was based around the females, including social hierarchies and all that. I apologize to the universe for such a bad summary but it was quite a while ago!
Anyway, one of the things she covered was that since most (if not all) the early researchers were male, they focused almost exclusively on what the male monkeys would do. This was exacerbated by the fact that many male activities are loud and boisterous and out there – although mostly just bluster – so they drew more attention. The gender bias in the scientists matched with the seemingly more active males meant obviously everything important about the monkey “culture” if you will was determined by the males. Meanwhile in the background the female monkeys were getting on with the business of building their community.
It’s not like I didn’t know there was gender bias in science, but it was such an amazing example of how it applied in the real world.
@Alan Robertshaw:
Exactly. I mean, just last week there was this widely disseminated article about women fighters in Ukraine, where women make up more than one-fifth of the armed forces.
But misogynists want to believe that men invariably fight and women invariably flee, so that’s what they see.
I may have posted this before, but one of my favorite moments in my brief (and long ago) teaching career was when the girl who was researching Rosalind Franklin for a report came up to me and said, “Oh my god, Mr. Moregeekthan, those two guys totally ripped her off.”
Half the Ukrainian refugees are children–do these doofuses think that Ukrainian kids should be traveling to Poland by themselves? I’ve read at least one story of a woman who got her children safely situated outside of Ukraine and then went back to fight.
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2022/03/09/wikipedia-wants-to-increase-the-incredibly-small-portion-of-its-pages-devoted-to-women-mens-rights-redditors-dont-think-that-women-are-notable-enough/#comment-3681858
The women of Ukraine who are leaving are generally those who are bringing THE CHILDREN to a location of relative safety. I’m sure that some of the men would be doing this if the Ukranian government would allow it.
AND, the Ukrainian government is not letting deaf men leave…. unless they have other disabling conditions making them not able to fight either in the military or volunteer civic militias…
@LouCPurr
Trick question. They don’t think, period.
@ Ann
I believe men can leave if they are either the sole carer or they are escorting three or more children.
@ morethangeek
As someone put it “The only thing Watson and Crick discovered was where Rosalind Franklin kept the key to her filing cabinet.”
According to her contemporaries, Cleopatra wasn’t a great beauty. She was a brilliant conversationalist tho…
Guess we just have to make more history, then.
This series got really slated; but I love it!
It’s very campy fun; but it’s also surprisingly well researched. They even get Cleopatra’s hand maidens’ names right.
Well, they won’t make the history books, but I am incredibly grateful to the women – nurses and physicians – who cared for me today as I underwent surgery to remove what turned out to be TWO lumps of tissue that did not need to be in my body.
Doing fine at home now. Mr. Parasol deserves an award for being an awesome husband. I am also fairly blitzed out of my mind thanks to post-op painkiller.
@Vicky P: glad to hear it went well and you got the good drugs.
Cleopatra was brilliant, great at languages and politics, but not particularly beautiful. Men really did appreciate her for her mind (And her land). Also not a slut — Caesar and Antony are probably the only men she ever had sex with.
I knew from past experience that the replies to this one would be good 🙂
@Victorious Parasol, I’m so glad you’re ok. what an awful, stressful time.