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So I’ve been puzzling over this comment in the Men’s RIghts subreddit for several days now. The topic at hand? Why the Boy Scouts are doing very badly right now.
None of the regulars can seem to remember that back in its alleged glory days the organization was a hotbed of pedophiles, and that it has shelled out nearly a billion dollars to the tens of thousands of victims of these men. No, as far as the Men’s Rightsers are concerned the real problem with the Boy Scouts is that it’s let in some girls. Which just ruins everything. Ruins it.
Also, it apparently makes women become astronauts for all the wrong reasons.
At least that seems to be the implication of this somewhat confounding comment from someone called grimreefer213.
When you allow females in a conventionally male space then you fundamentally change the space and how men interact with each other, emotionalism infiltrates, now instead of the mission you have to be mindful of what the thermostat is set at so that the little ladies are comfortable.
Yes, men and women tend to prefer different temperatures, and office thermostats are generally set using a formula designed to serve the cooler preferences of middle-aged men. God forbid you have to adjust the thermostat a little to accommodate ONE HALF OF THE WORLD’S POPULATION.
It removes an important element of coming of age as a man, it removes objectivity
The irony of this guy seeing himself as Mr. Objectivity.
and now you can’t be unapologetically masculine and be a good influence on boys because you have to behave differently when girls are around. Everything becomes feminized and the female imperative becomes primary.
Human sacrifice! Boys and girls scouting together! Mass hysteria!
Girls and boys learn and develop completely differently but we tell them that we’re all equal and boys need to man down.
No one in the history of humankind has ever told a boy to “man down,” whatever the hell that means.
It’s messed up, we used to have rites of passage and men had to go out and hunt to take on their burden of performance into manhood, now were becoming soft and when you allow women in then they start to police the locker room.
You know, if you don’t want female reporters in the locker room, you could just declare lockers rooms off limits to everyone for post-game interviews. Fair’s fair.
It’s at this point that Mr. grimreefer213 completely loses it.
Women often don’t become astronauts and governors because they’re compelled to serve humanity and be the best astronaut, they do it because they want to be the first woman to do it and because they’re told they need to be empowered and be world empresses.
There are two possibilities here. EIther grimreefer213 is talking complete twaddle. Or he’s operating on such a high level of Men’s Rightsness that ordinary mortals like you and I can’t make sense of his supreme man logic.
Evidently his colleagues in the Men’s Rights subreddit understand, because they gave him 21 upvotes for this absolute nonsense.
###
I would say it’s a bad thing to hear on a battlefield. Although it might be a good thing, because that means it probably isn’t you.
Do the MRA know that there has been women astronaut for far longer than there has been girls in the boys scout? Technically the first women in space was Valentina Tereshkova in 1963 almost 60 years ago and the first American woman in space was Sally Ride in 1983. I don’t think they know more about space exploration and science then they do about feminism and they know next to nothing of the later.
and now you can’t be unapologetically masculine and be a good influence on boys because you have to behave differently when girls are around.
I recently listened to the Behind The Bastards podcast episodes about Robert Baden-Powell and Baden-Powell would definitely agree with this sentiment. You can’t admire a bunch of skinny-dipping teen boys when there are icky women around.
No woman alive today can be the first astronaut, what with Comrade Tereshkova having done that almost 60 years ago, and Sally Ride almost 40 years ago. Pretty sure all the actively flying astro/cosmo/taikonauts today weren’t born before there were women in space. Same with governors, Prime Ministers, Supreme Court justices, everything but US Presidents.
There’s nothing stopping this confused chap from going out and hunting some animal with his bare hands and a sharp stick. Or joining a fraternity where he can be as Manly as he wants, plus probably get hazed, but at least it won’t be pedophilia since everyone’s over 18. Yay?
I think the Explorer programs have allowed girls in for a long time, too. Probably some of them were in the 82,000 abuse claims that were filed by the deadline.
Since they still don’t allow atheists and agnostics in the US, I guess those boys can’t become Manly Men according to this chump. Unless they go out hunting.
Hmm, there hasn’t been a world empress yet – guess I should do it, since it’ll be a first for women and all. Thanks for the idea, grimreefer213!
In my experience the thermostat is usually set at a level that seems to make one area of the building too warm and the other too cold, so nobody can find a good spot where they can stay and be comfortable, “little ladies” or otherwise.
Where I worked it was also controlled automatically from a control center in another state based solely on sensor readings. After literally years of compliants about how it was 50F in one area while the sensor there claimed it was 95F, a repairman came in and observing our problems, moved it (against all orders and directives) so it wasn’t at the ceiling above hot equipment.
The argument of “But if the employees can control it, they will waste money” doesn’t hold much water when you have employees running several space heaters while the air conditioning is running. It was absurd.
/tangent
Heaven forbid scouts get distracted from their core mission (of scouting enemy positions, I presume) and instead focus on learning to interact respectfully and support others in a social environment.
@ Lumipuna
I understand that was the original intent of Boy Scouts: To prepare the little tikes for war when they grew up.
Didn’t get a lot of that when I was in though. It was mostly just glorified camping trips for me, though some troops were more serious about all the riflemanship, hardcore rucking, physical fitness, etc. Guess the females hadn’t gotten them all “manned down” in those cases.
The whole affair with Boy Scouts is a shame though (to put it mildly). Some of the guys I met were pretty good people. There was a leader from another troop who basically had no kids, nothing much to do in life after retirement, so he became a leader. The joke was he really just wanted to sit next to a campfire and drink coffee all day, but he did have some decent outdoor survival skills, plenty of fatherly type advice, and was just a nice guy overall. You could basically find him at any Boy Scout gathering or major camp, and he’d happily treat any kid like they were in his troop.
Eh, I’m not getting involved with the organization now though. That ship has sailed.
If you have to behave differently when girls are around, maybe you aren’t a good example? Just a thought.
Then it’s a good thing that incels (and the politicians they support) are so calm and even-tempered.
Absolutely. In fact, they are two different species.
That right there suggests a solution to the astronaut problem: rename NASA to the Conventionally Male Space Agency.
@GSS
I usually do the bare minimum of reading to get what’s going on when it comes to child abuse scandals these days, because I just can’t with them, so I don’t know a whole lot about the Boy Scouts problem, but…
Eighty-two thousand. EIGHTY-TWO THOUSAND. Holy. Fucking. Shit. And those are just the claims filed before the deadline?! (Also, Statute of Limitation laws in rape/abuse cases are BULLSHIT!)
Sorry. I just had to do some screaming about this before moving on. Because this fucking planet sometimes…
Okay… Maybe mocking the manbaby whiners will take my mind off this shit for a while…
Yeah, suddenly you can’t (or at least shouldn’t) act like a bunch of frat boy douchebags comparing dick sizes and talking about which actress or fictional character you want to bang all the time. Woe is you.
Curse those females and their emotions! Not like us TOTALLY MANLY MEN who are always clinically, coldly detached and objective in all our dealings… Which is why we made a bunch of “NO GIRLS ALLOWED” internet clubhouses to complain about how women and feminism RUIN EVERYTHING, but why won’t they sleep with us?! Totally objective and not based on any kind of emotion at all whatsoever, guys, totally!
To quote Battering Lamb: “If you have to behave differently when girls are around, maybe you aren’t a good example? Just a thought.”
Besides, it sounds like a large number of those Scout leaders were anything BUT a good influence on those poor boys…
Dude, I bet a zillion dollars you have never passed any sort of “rite of passage”, nor hunted down anything larger than a pizza. He was like this close to literally bringing up mammoth hunting, wasn’t he?
Yeah, because no dude on the planet ever said “I want to do this thing for personal glory and to brag about being the first man to do it”, nope, not ever, they really just wanted to humbly “serve humanity”. Sure, kid. What the fuck are you and your ilk doing for the good of humanity?
These fucking guys.
I think I’d use this Jesse gif instead:
How can I sign up to be a world empress ? Are there any cool costumes that come with the role? Can I quit my day job? Also, the MRA dudes would be dismayed to learn that a woman, Lady Ada Byron, was the world’s first computer programmer and without her he would be typing his screed on ….well, paper. But MRA guys rarely have anything to say about the rights of men. Lol.
Mr. Parasol had a pretty good Scouting experience (except for things like, oh, one of his fellow Scouts falling off a cliff and dying while they were in Mexico), eventually making Eagle Scout, but he’s told me that if we had a son, he’d discourage him from joining the BSA. He’s been very disappointed in them for years now.
I personally think that’s horrifying that an athlete can be bothered in a locker room by a journalist after a game. What possible credible reason can there be for allowing any journalists into a locker room while athletes are cleaning up, possibly after an incredibly disappointing loss for which they may have been at fault and are feeling very vulnerable and are then also naked? A tremendous invasion of privacy.
I can somewhat speak to this! A decade ago I was grad school chums with one of the women who will be one of the first women to walk on the moon in the Artemis program. In fact I never heard her say that her goal was to become an astronaut. Her goal was to fly a specific type of fighter jet, to be fit enough to complete these really long bike rides for charity, and to complete her degree with a meaningful thesis. Excellence in these things lead her down the path to becoming the best astronaut. I can confidently say, I do not hold a candle to that woman. She is monstrously motivated.
But this guy is accurate that at least as of 10 years ago she apparently wasn’t compelled to become an astronaut. She just set out to be the best, and was selected to be an astronaut for it.
@epitome: Do you need a Vice-Empress? I could do the boring bits, turning up at sporting events and funerals, plus keeping the throne warm when you need some me time for a day. I promise not to stage a coup (too much effort, really).
@ epitome and @ GSS ex-noob
I would like to be third in line here. Assistant Empress, perhaps? Empress Understudy? If you have Empress and Vice Empress covered, I really wouldn’t mind at least being third in a row …..I mean , World Empress seems like a tough position and you might need assistance.
@Vicky P
Uhhh… that sounds pretty horrifying. Dare I even ask? (Not implying you downplayed it or anything, was just surprised to hear that.)
@BTD
Wow, interesting story! Do you still know her or have you fallen out of touch?
@everyone else vying for position of Empress and associated titles
We should form a matriarchy that’s egalitarian as well… Really blow the misogynists’ minds. We can all take turns as World Empress, say, everyone gets a turn at least once a month? Or is that too short a term? Either way, we all take turns as to who is the current reigning World Empress and everyone else gets positions in the Royal Court of Tyrannical Feminist Overlords. If the current Empress needs a break or sick leave, we can draw straws to see who fills in for her until she returns, but the catch is you get bumped back a spot in line for your turn to rule. It will be women-only, of course, because MISANDRY!, but naturally, trans women will be allowed. Femme-presenting NBs or others may also be considered, because we need a strong Queer Agenda to Destroy Heteronormativity and Make Homophobes/Transphobes Cry. We will also definitely make sure there are a lot of WoC, to Make Fragile White Racist Snowflakes Cry too. Any other suggestions for our glorious matriarchy?
@ Queen of the Harpies
*drops to knees*
Your worship, I think you need some kind of Simp Brigade for certain undesirables to hate and despise. I am of course unworthy of this great task, but I can kind of cook, maybe clean a little. Perhaps there is a place for me in your organization? Surely one of you would need a footstool?
I understand there would be a somewhat nebulous or hazy need to imply I am getting some sort of favor from this service, though naturally not enough to truely make it worth while because nobody likes a simp. Might I suggest creating an official Friend Zone designation, if that is not too bold of me?
One last thing: We would need something of a uniform. Some preliminary thoughts: The lower ranking simps would wear khakis with bright pink or purple polos, complete with “This is what a Feminist looks like” printed on them in bold. Accessories can include monogramed aprons, name tags (you would probably need to make a point of looking at them before addressing any of us since we are only simps and it would be odd if you remembered our names in the first place), etc. More prominent simps in your government would probably look more official with a suit and tie. The tie is the important part I think, as it can be garishly pink and include the appropriate slogans.
Ok, I thought about this way too hard. ;D
I was in the Scouts for several years as a child and teen ager. It wasn’t Boy scouts or Girl Scouts, it was just Scouts, but there tended to be more boys than girls. Sometimes I was the only girl. I liked the scouting a lot, and it was very good for my self confidence and self esteem.
The thing was, I got a bit bullied and ostracized in school, especially by boys, for being a bookish nature lover, a nerd and Not A Real Girl. This got to me at times. However, precisely these characteristics were valued assets in the Scouts, with the boys sometimes arguing about who got to have Gatecrasher on their team! In the forest, I got to be who I was, and I was appreciated for it.
As an adult I still enjoy being in the forest and I am still a bookish nerd. I have considered joining the Scouts again, as a leader.
I really enjoyed being in the Scouts. I think that’s maybe where my love of OS Maps comes from; and I’m still pretty handy with knots. I’m very grateful to the adults who gave up their time to make it happen.
We did have an initiation ceremony that probably broke the Geneva Conventions; but as everyone had to do it I think that’s fair enough.
I also liked the books. You can write a lot about B-P and imperialism etc. but they really did highlight, and admire, other cultures. Some of it may have been a bit cliched and stereotyping; but they were pretty inspirational.
“On his 13th birthday a Massai boy must single handedly hunt a lion. You probably had cake.”
I remember vividly a story of an Indian boy who stopped the enemy breaking into a building by using his arm as a door jamb. Eep.
The first woman in space was Valentina Tereshkova, a citizen of the Soviet Union, back in 1963. That’s 60 years since the first female astronaut. The first American astronaut meanwhile was Sally Ride, who went to space in 1983. I don’t think either of them grew up in particularly feminist societies – 1940s Russia? 60s and 70s America? – and yet somehow they were still interested in space. Maybe if that poster’s parents had put him in the girl scouts or a co-educational organization like the woodcraft folk, he might have learned something about the long history of women in astronomy and space travel…
Let’s not overlook the other women who contributed to the space program. Hidden Figures by Margot Lee Shetterly makes for fascinating reading. There’s also Amy Shira Teitel’s Fighting for Space. Amy Shira Teitel’s YouTube channel will introduce you to some lesser known areas of space history.
IOW, watching The Right Stuff and Apollo 13 should be just the beginning.
For how female astronauts should be, I highly recommend the “Lady Astronaut” series by Mary Robinette Kowal. If you liked anything @Vicky P mentioned, you will like these books and stories.
(Also she is owned by a tortie who has learned to talk by pressing buttons that say the words for kitty. It’s amazing. See them on YT.)
@QotH: I am definitely interested in being a part of your matriarchy. You’ve thought this out well.
@.45: Nay, we have no simps. All people are valued in QotH’s empire, and we do not devalue so-called “women’s work”, even if done by men. But name tags for all are a good idea, because remembering everyone’s name is hard. The reigning Empress has the fanciest name tag, though. I like your color scheme. The men will be called simps/Friend Zoned by the usual suspects, but in the empire they will be called by their names, or collectively as “the guys”, “the kitchen guys”, “the cleaning guys”, etc.