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cis-splaining misogyny TERFs transphobia Uncategorized

The Pronoun Pipeline: How innocent cises trick themselves into turning trans, according to some idiot

The wrong kind of pipeline

Watch out, cises, those transes are sneaky! First they trick you into listing your (regular cis) pronouns in your bio in solidarity with trans people — a seemingly innocent move that slides you into the “trans pipeline.” And before you know it. you’re a full-fledged trans person yourself.

At least according to this “gender critical” dingbat:

That has got to be the slipperiest slippery slope I’ve ever seen. Who knew?

H/T — r/GenderCynical

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Viscaria
Viscaria
11 days ago

You know, I list my pronouns (she/her) online first and foremost to normalize the practice and to show support to the trans community, but I also do it because I don’t like being misgendered online! And considering most of these “gender critical” jabronis list “adult human female,” etc, in their profiles, I’m guessing they don’t much care for it either. They as much as list their own pronouns, but they make sure not to actually do that because doing so could make someone believe they’re considering the needs of trans people. They’re vice signalling.

Seth S
Seth S
11 days ago

I guess asking an actual trans man what his experience was and what the thought process was behind discovering his identity is too complicated for them. After all, when you’re this invested in bald-faced bigotry, it’s best not to cloud your paradigm-affirming speculation with anything so trivial as truth or personal experience…

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
11 days ago

Huh. Actually, I just never (intentionally) misgender people because I’m not an asshole, not because I’m staring down a trans pipeline. But if I was an asshole, I still wouldn’t do that specific thing because even though I am a cis woman, I have been intentionally misgendered by men as a way of attempting to humiliate me. It angers me greatly, and thus, because I imagine a similar response in trans people, I never would misgender them even if I was a giant gaping asshole. You know, treat people as you would want to be treated and all that. We might be circling back to “don’t be an asshole” though.

Moggie
Moggie
11 days ago

“If you declare your pronouns, you might discover something about yourself” is a weird threat.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
11 days ago

Huh. I’ve had my pronouns in my Twitter bio for ages and yet they remain she/her. Should I feel offended that the transes forgot to come along and trans me up?

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
11 days ago

I’ve been wondering more and more lately if I am nonbinary.

occasional reader
occasional reader
11 days ago

Gender euphoria !?
Is it not dysphoria ? Is it a pathetic attempt to put under the bus an acknowledged mental trouble ?

Last edited 11 days ago by occasional reader
Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
11 days ago

@occasional reader
I’m not the best person to say, because I’m cis, but I believe gender dysphoria is feeling all wrong in the body you’ve got, often feeling like an empty suit of armour, or like a remote control robot. It generally takes years to put your finger on what’s wrong.
When you start to become your true self, usually with hormones, it’s common to have gender euphoria. I’ve seen it described as finally having the right sort of gas in your car, or finally having your shoes on the right feet instead of the wrong ones. Sort of, “Oh my! Is this how it’s supposed to be?”

Terra
Terra
11 days ago

@occasional reader

Gender Euphoria is the opposite of dysphoria. It is the sensation of being at home and at peace with yourself. It is the ineffable feeling of rightness with your body.

Imagine waking up, looking into the mirror, and smiling. “Yeah, that’s me. Hey, good looking.” Or putting on gender-appropriate clothing and seeing how it turns that indistinct, slightly wrong thing that is you into a person you can start feeling empathetic towards or even love.

I think everyone has the potential for this sensation. Still, it is most prevalent in transpeople, simply because the difference is so much greater when your whole life has been spent in part coping with a body that never feels like it is right. These moments where it actually is right become precious.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
11 days ago

Additionally, the term gender euphoria also serves to highlight something other than the suffering of being trans. And it can be really powerful. My first experience with gender euphoria came from shaving my chest (my body-hair is a big cause of dysphoria for me, especially my torso and arms). It was such a powerful feeling that made me realize ‘shit, I need to do something with this’. I was willing to stay closeted and live in silence before then.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
11 days ago

So close, and yet so far.

Seriously though, this kind of gradually increasing experimentation leading to a major lifestyle change is common for… a lot of things. Including both harmless ones (being gay, trans, ace, part of a fandom…) and ones that are very harmful (drug abuse, theft and con artistry, rape, fascism…). This “slippery slope” is literally just how people change their personalities IRL.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
11 days ago

Gosh, gender identities sure are fragile, malleable, plastic things. All you gotta do is confirm your own pronouns in a twitter bio and have nice opinions towards other people, and all of a sudden you’re living in upside-down land!

Therefore the most important thing in the universe is to make sure that no one ever alters their gender identities, especially if it makes them feel better about themselves.

These people, I tell ya.

Seth S
Seth S
11 days ago

@occasional reader
Gender euphoria is admittedly the biggest thing that brought my condition to my conscious attention, but nothing like they’re describing it because it didn’t involve ANY other people or their reactions to me.

It came on me privately, in my bathroom, looking at myself in the mirror in a binder, fake beard and masculine contour (ie full dress to be a drag king) at a time when I’d barely heard of trans men and didn’t know any personally (though I soon would). It was the first time I ever liked my reflection, and not just liked… more like “where have you BEEN all my life??” And even then, if you’d asked me then if I was a trans man I would have told you no, of course not, I’m a woman. It still took me another good 6 months to figure it out and connect all the dots…

My gender dysphoria was not strong enough to be an indicator, it was more of a vague discomfort I felt at seeing myself in photos or in the mirror, and the reason I tried to always be the one in the friend group that took the photos so I couldn’t be IN them..

The weirdest thing I’ve discovered about being trans is that the more comfortable I am as a man, the more comfortable I ALSO am in the more feminine aspects of my personality, tendencies, and so forth… I’m not a terribly masculine guy but it’s okay. Maybe that’s because I feel safer telling people to go fuck themselves if they don’t like it than I did before, but idk.

Last edited 11 days ago by Seth S
Allandrel
Allandrel
11 days ago

This is definitely a real thing that happens to real cis people, yes.

Katie
Katie
10 days ago

The more I read about the “arguments” of Terfs, the more I’m convinced that in the same way that a lot of the most virulent homophobes are closeted that a lot of Terfs are some flavor of trans, and trying to avoid dealing with that.

bcb
bcb
10 days ago

Okay then, let’s see about the slippery slope of cissing people:
1)Some expectant parents look at a sonogram and determine what they think the genitals of a fetus without a fully-formed brain look like.
2)They hold a “gender reveal party” to tell the world what genitals their fetus has.
3)You are born.
4)CisActivists all demand to know what your genitals look like, and force their cis ideology on you from the day you are born.
5)A lot of adults with a lot of power in your life tell you that if you aren’t cis, they will kill you.
6)Others say that if you aren’t cis they will try to get you sent to prison.
7)Still others say they have lots of compassion for the plight of non-cis people, so if you aren’t cis they will try to make sure you get sent to a prison, but they’ll call it a “mental hospital” instead of a prison and you won’t get the due process rights of a criminal trial, and they’ll tell you it’s “for your own good.”
8)You pretend to be cis because you don’t want to be killed or imprisoned.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
10 days ago

Gender “euphoria” from lying to people and affirming the lies? I thought that was just compulsive lying or psychopathy. The gender part in that, I don’t understand.

P.S., thanks Occasional Reader and Terra, for clearing that up. Dingbats like the one in the example always like to pick medical terms or other such big words out of the air and throw them around to sound smart. Never works.

Last edited 10 days ago by Katherine the Adequate
GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
10 days ago

So these (expletive deleted)s simultaneously think gender only comes in 2 kinds, and you can’t change AND putting pronouns in your profile will make you trans.

Makes as little sense as everything else they believe.

I was misgendered ALL THE TIME from birth to about 30, so I appreciate people letting me know their pronouns up front so as not to embarrass us all.

(she/her/hey you/dude*)

*”dude” has been omni-gender for decades. “The Dude” is cis male, though he appreciates a good rug.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
10 days ago

@Katie: It does sorta look that way, doesn’t it? I mean, if you’re secure in your cis or straight identity, you shouldn’t be threatened by trans or queer people. It shouldn’t affect you at all.

Yet the supposedly manly men and anti-LGBT politicians/crusaders get caught with other men, or in a dress, serial rapists like Cosby preach morality to others, and let’s not even mention Catholic priests.

I had fallen out of touch with a friend and got back in touch, and naturally inquired about her kid — “how’s Dave doing?” The reply was “brace yourself — Dave is Courtney now”. Because they live in (spit) Texas, where it’s still very dangerous. I was all “oh, tell her I said hi.” Because I live in California, and am not surprised when someone I know comes out as queer or trans. Because they’re HAPPIER.

I am, however, an incurable yenta, so I only want to know what gender(s) someone’s interested in to fix them up with someone else nice. If that’s what they’re looking for.

Luzbelitx
10 days ago

Oh… I remember back in the day when I got into drag for artistic purposes (i know rite)….

I didn’t know the term “gender euphoria” but that was exactly what I felt. Like a long lost part of me saying hi from the other side of the mirror. Marvelous feeling. You can’t get it from “lies”.

Also, maybe it’s a weird thing to pick up on but… they/them are the two forms of the same pronoun. As in, nominative / possesive. I knida follow they train of thought in the text, but the aurthor’s grap of grammar seems shaky.

As for the carpinchos… sadly a few of them have been shot, becasue assholes gonna ass >:-( still, they seem to have been isolated incidents… which is a tiny bit less worse, I guess?

The major of Mar del Plata, a seaside district around 400 kms away from Nordelta, has offered to “welcome” the carpinchos to s town that has its own carpincho population.

I guess it’s not the worst possible outcome, but still very much unfair.

Jon
Jon
10 days ago

many terfs also declare someone a man or woman online based purely around their typing by the level of perceived aggression towards them.
Because obviously the loving and empathetic hearts of womybn wouldn’t allow them to show such hostility against anyone but trans people.

occasional reader
occasional reader
10 days ago

Thank you all for the information !
As i often read about dysphoria here, i was thinking she was just trying to make a bad joke about the opposite.
Well, if you have experienced this euphoria, kudos to you, then !
And sorry for my misunderstanding. Those people show bad faith so often that i am doubting everything they write… (that does not excuse my lack of culture, though).

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
10 days ago

Reading this thread, it seems a lot of people kind of blunder into discovering that they’re trans.

Is there any way this could be improved? Some self-test a person can perform that is likely to trigger such a discovery, if there is one to be made in their case? Perhaps also for nonbinary? And if so, any way to disseminate the knowledge widely, short of being able to write a really progressive sex ed curriculum and get it taught in every high school in the world?

Terra
Terra
10 days ago

I think it is not easy jot this down in a handy personality quiz. It took me over 35 years and change to come to the realization – and not for lack of “signs”. Denial is a hell of a drug, and getting off it is not easy.

Some things that help are seeing others who transitioned – regular, ordinary people. Allowing people to experiment without treating it as something hugely meaningful. You want to go by they/them for a while? Great, see how that agrees with you?

Another is demedicalization. Accept that we are just people, with slightly different needs than the 90%, but no less human and normal. This one is slightly controversial in the community, but it is a way to lower the barrier.

Oh, and of course, normalize the fact that gender variance exists. I know cis people who are grateful for being able to put pronouns in bio because they keep getting misgendered otherwise (cis-men in caregiving profession in particular)

Luzbelitx
10 days ago

@occasional reader

As far as I’m concerned, there’s no need to apologize. You keep learning, and so de we all 🙂

I don’t think there would be gender euphoria if there weren’t gender stereotypes and gender dysphoria to begin with… but then again, maybe yes? Self discovery is all about figuring out our true selves, and nothing is more powerful than finding out our truth, in whichever aspect of life.

@Surplus

I don’t think there’s such a clear cut way to finding out your trans/non-cis, “acid test” like. Because there is so much cultural baggage to unpack first.

However I do find that telling our stories and the way we discover and experience our identity does help a lot, in the sense that it makes others realize they might be going through the same or at least similar processes.

@Jon

I was often “accused” of being a trans woman by TERFs online, despite being AFAB. It’s actually way more common than I thought at first.

I remember one specific time when a TERF was dispatching her speech about me not being able to menstruate or give birth… joke’s on her, I guess, since I do/did both?

Not Edward
Not Edward
10 days ago

What is wrong with these people? So terrified apparently of “turning trans” (I mean WTF? Really?) they object to people specifying their gender? Speaking as someone whose job means first contact with someone is often via e-mail, a bracketed (Mr / Ms / whatever) on an e-mail address or a specified gender on a profile has mostly little to with trans issues that I can see and mostly for the convenience of the recipient: it always makes things much easier, especially if someone has a non-gender-specific name like “Chris” or an unusual name I’ve not heard of. It’s always an utter pain in the bum when formality requires a “Mr / Mrs” etc and the “Sam Smith” or whoever you are writing to hasn’t left you the slightest clue which or which pronoun to use: whether “Sam” whatever gender they are is cis or trans has nothing to with anything.
For alleged feminists it seems a bit odd to apparently argue that (cis) women are so spectacularly sweet and girly and (cis) men always so spectacularly aggressive and manly (or whatever cliche they are currently operating to) that the reek of manliness or femininity so leaks even out of every communication they make so that no-one could ever fail to distinguish which someone is or require it to be specified.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

I see “cis” is a place-holder like “neurotypical” or “straight”. There’s a bunch of things in there, and these people are just showing their feelings about some, mostly feelings about trans women. It’s the agony of ignorance. Imagining playing a role playing game and acting like everything is warrior or an archer, and staying ignorant and afraid of the other character types.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
9 days ago

many terfs also declare someone a man or woman online based purely around their typing by the level of perceived aggression towards them.

Or just be someone who does something they associate as male.

TW: sexual abuse

There was a news story a few days ago about a woman teacher who was charged with raping her student, a boy of 13 or 14 years old.

The teacher is a cis woman, but they assumed she was trans because she wasn’t super pretty and delicate looking and because they apparently think a cis woman would never sexually abuse a child.

It was very gross.

Kind of amazing though, that TERFs claim to be feminist but only consider you a real woman if you’re pretty, sweet, small in stature, and have given birth.

Seth S
Seth S
8 days ago

@Surplus

The biggest things that would have helped me would have just been more exposure to the idea, specifically for me, of trans men, and that trans people are real/not just crazy (I’d only ever previously heard of trans women, so the idea that trans men existed simply didn’t cross my mind because I spent 38ish years not even knowing, plus I’d bought into the “they’re just sick” ideology about trans women for years because that’s how I was raised and what the media tended to portray through the 80s and 90s), and greater social acceptance for people to explore their gender. I could say a lot about the lack of trans male visibility, but it’s sort of beside the point.

I can’t guarantee more exposure would have helped in my case, because my parents are religious and ridiculously conservative (we’re already butting heads about what treatments they think I should get… I’m in my 40s, my medical decisions should be entirely up to me, but given that I’m stuck living with them for the time being they “don’t want the money I’m saving to go towards mutilating my body”, so I’m stuck using low dose testosterone pills instead of normal dose injections, and they absolutely won’t use masculine pronouns for me, nor my chosen name), but it certainly wouldn’t have hurt.

I am, however, a binary trans person, and that’s not everyone’s experience. There is, as far as I know, no litmus test for “trans people” because our experiences are just too varied (What about genderfluid? Nonbinary? Agender? Genderfae? I have no idea how people figure that out, yet I know multiple people who are in one of each of those non-man-nor-woman categories). I just want people to be at least free to explore their gender wihtout stigma. They need to be able to ask themselves “why do I feel uncomfortable when I see my photograph/reflection? Do I need a makeover/change of style to express myself more authentically? Is it a body image issue I need to look at, or social pressure from people I might need to get out of my life? Am I just dissatisfied with how my sex/gender is treated socially? Or is there something deeper going on with me and my identity, as a person?” and experiment with their preferred presentation without being mocked, ridiculed, or treated like they’re mentally sick. The current social climate is not really HELPING, especially now with such drama about who uses what public bathroom. But it’s better, on the whole, than it used to be (at least people know trans people exist now, and I can put my pronouns and preferred name in my medical file and reasonably expect my GP will try to honor it.)

Alan Robertshaw
8 days ago

One thing that surprised me a few years back was how cool, and knowledgeable, my Nan and her friends were about trans women. I must confess I hadn’t imagined that would even be a topic of conversation amongst 90 year old Yorkshire ladies. But apparently it was all down to a particular character in their favourite soap opera.

See here for more details…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayley_Cropper

So I guess this is one of those examples of why representation matters.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

My first experience with gender euphoria came from shaving my chest (my body-hair is a big cause of dysphoria for me, especially my torso and arms).

@Battering Lamb – I’ve experienced something maybe sort of similar, although I’m cis. When I get a thicker hair than usual growing in my chin, it irritates me until I pull it out. Partly it’s the texture, partly it bothers my sense of my own gender – if that makes any sense.

And I guess everyone has different ways of feeling comfortable with their gender. It doesn’t bother me to have hair on my legs, for instance, and I don’t usually wear make-up. But I’m pretty sure of being a woman.

Putting “she/her” pronouns on my profiles hasn’t changed that. Maybe if I put “he/him”? Is language magic that way?

(Speaking of language, I just started as a full-time student in linguistics today. I’m enjoying all the courses so far, but I’m exhausted!)

hammerofglass
hammerofglass
8 days ago

That whole “getting euphoria from lying to people and having them believe my lies” line is projecting so hard she can use it for Power Point presentations.