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The Top Five things about women I learned from The Federalist’s “Flyover women” article

Makin’ babies

Carrie Gress is a Fellow who doesn’t want to live like a man. Gress, a five-time mother and a fellow at a think tank called, rather generically, the Ethics and Public Policy Center, has just published a piece in The Federalist celebrating what she calls the “flyover women” — the salt-of-the-earth, sometimes not-so-glamorous mothers who stand up against Cultural Marxism and “radical feminism” and jobs, if possible.

Ironically, Gress’ definition of the “flyover women” sounds at times like a series of insults:

Fly-over women are the moms and daughters and wives and sisters and friends the media overlooks because they are religious or frumpy or don’t have sexy day jobs. They are considered uneducated doormats.

But apparently these flyover gals have sort of cornered the market on babies, and that’s all that really counts: babies, babies, glorious unaborted babies.

What we will never see in the splashy pages of Vanity Fair, for instance, are the many happy women who buck the feminist narrative, loving, nurturing, consoling, clothing, cleaning, and adoring their numerous children without trying to live like men. …

They know the preciousness of a tender embrace from small arms, a little face learning to offer kisses … .

Weirdly, from someone with pretentions of being a scholar, Gress seems to think that this whole mothering thing is something that no feminist will ever experience, though in fact the overwhelming majority of adult women in American society eventually do get around to having babies; as Jill Filipovic notes in a recent New York Times op-ed, “86 percent of American women ages 40 to 44 are mothers.” And a lot of these mothers are feminists.

So what else besides baby love distinguishes flyover women from the regular ones? Here are Five Things I Learned About Flyover Women (and women in general) from reading her piece in the Federalist:

Flyover women hate Marxist fads like dialectical materialism and building the revolutionary party.

They reject all the latest Marxist fads, propagated with clever sound bites, high-end advertising, and popular hashtags.

Women love just carrying shit around.

She knows, as women have for millennia, that being a woman is synonymous with carrying something.

Women are boats and boats are women:

Women traditionally have been seen as a kind of vessel that transforms whatever it holds. We see it in the Romance languages, where words like “ocean,” “ship,” and “oven,” are feminine. This is why boats are named after women.

Flyover women are huge slobs — because of abortion.

Their bodies are often tired, hair not always perfectly coiffed, and nails rarely manicured. Their homes may not be camera-ready, their meals probably aren’t gourmet, and talking points aren’t ready on their tongues. But mostly, the issue is that they don’t believe in abortion and they do believe in the sanctity of marriage.

Feminists want women to become more manlike by having abortions.

Ironically, whether they know it or not, feminists’ unspoken premise insists men are superior to women and women must become like them in the pursuit of equality. Therefore, to be equal, women must be able to eliminate the consequences of sex, like men, and rid themselves of unborn children through unrestricted abortion.

There’s more weird stuff in there but I’ll leave it at this; my brain is already scrambled enough from trying to make sense of all this.

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Podkayne Lives
Podkayne Lives
28 days ago

I’m not clear on how women are supposed to become more manlike by having abortions, since cis men don’t get abortions, and they are the overwhelming majority of men…but never mind.

I’ve learned from this that I am a flyover woman, in every way possible except that I’m a feminist who lives on the West coast. But I have kids! And I’m frumpy and religious! My hair is never coiffed! I’m always carrying something! And I’m a middle-school teacher, which can’t count as a high-flying career.

Moggie
Moggie
28 days ago

If “being a woman is synonymous with carrying something”, why do women’s clothes lack pockets? Checkmate, The Federalist!

Does she provide any facts to support these assertions? For example, on the “sanctity of marriage”: as far as I recall, Arkansas has a much higher divorce rate than California or New York, and one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy.

epronovost
epronovost
28 days ago

Weird, for her feminist women are trendy, prim and, to certain extent even, smart. Yet, for many feminist women are unlikeable ugly, fat slobs with tattoos are piercings. For yet another group, they are “man-ish lesbians” and for another princesses who have never done anything in their life beside studying liberal arts and having sex. At that speed, one of them might realize that feminist women are pretty god damn diverse and are all of the above and then some at the same time.

Tim
Tim
28 days ago

Short of anything else this argument is linguistically ridiculous. “Oven” is masculine in some romance languages, at least in French, “Le Four”. If you’re going to brainlessly use language to make baseless claims about half of the population, at least get it right.

Allandrel
Allandrel
28 days ago

OT: The newest attempt to resurrect TSR, Inc. by one of Gary Gygax’s sons has sparked some all-too-common hullabaloo when Gygax Jr. made an interview that was basically a Great Hits of Old White Guys Mad That Other Kids Are Allowed In The Clubhouse.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-on-new-tsr-wotc-beefs-trademarks-licensees-5e-more.680877/

The criticism has been followed with the usual bad-faith defenses, my favorite of which is claiming that rejecting LGBT+ elements is an attempt to “let fantasy be fantasy without injecting real-world concerns into it.” Because clearly nobody is trying to play in a fantasy world where their character can be LGBT+ without facing discrimination, right? That they mean “let fantasy be MY fantasy” could not be more clear.

There’s also bonus racism in the interview, because of course there is.

Ten Bears
28 days ago

A rare thing indeed when I can read one of these through to the end.

Oh, right … looonnnng time lurker, you know the rest. Don’t have anything to add, just it’s a rare thing indeed when I can read one of these through to the end.

Alan Robertshaw
28 days ago

When I first heard the term flyover country it confused me a bit. Over here flyovers are a type of motorway bridge. So I just had this image that the middle of America was all roads. It did sort of make sense; there’s sayings here like ‘sleeping under the flyover’ to indicate societal and urban decay. So I thought it might be that.

Another Laura
Another Laura
28 days ago

Oh, dear. I’m afraid that just hearing about someone like me might make Ms. Gress’s head explode. I’m a fat, frumpy, mother of two who’s been married to her husband for 36 years, and at the moment I live in the most flown-over of fly over states, Oklahoma. Though I’d never intended to be a stay-at-home-mom, my youngest child was born on the spectrum back in the days before anyone really knew what that meant and she required a level of care that we damned sure couldn’t afford to pay for, so guess who stopped working until the kid was in high school? Hell, my husband and I are practically poster children for Traditional Family Values, and he, I , and both grown children are all feminists. And atheists.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
28 days ago

And flyover women ignore the flyover Hispanic mothers that are doing the even less glamorous jobs of picking their crops and working in their slaughterhouses, for no money and injuries. They’d LOVE to work 9-5 at the WalMart checkout like White Flyover Women do, and spend cozy weekends with their non-aborted kids.

Of course they have talking points, mostly conspiracy shit promulgated by Cheeto Benito and his handlers.

@Podkayne: Obviously you’re supposed to move.

@Moggie: Pockets are one of the smallest yet largest differences between how men and women are treated. One day my husband had to wear a pair of my jeans (hadn’t done laundry) and he was aghast at the teeny front pockets and no back ones. I personally wear men’s jeans now, because pockets. Particularly during quarantine, so I could fit everything I needed into them rather than carry a bag that would get cooties.

One time a friend of mine won at a minor awards show, and she made her lovely suitable-for-awards gown, and we other ladies were admiring it and she proudly said “IT HAS POCKETS” and there were literal gasps, oohs, and ahhs as she stuck her hands into them. I may have said “we’re not worthy”.

And yes, the conservative areas have teen pregnancy and divorce rates greater than the coasts do.

@Another Laura: maybe you should trade houses with @Podkayne.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
28 days ago

Their bodies are often tired, hair not always perfectly coiffed, and nails rarely manicured. Their homes may not be camera-ready, their meals probably aren’t gourmet

Hey now. Some of us fit this description without being fascist trad wives and I demand representation.

Carla van der Meer
Carla van der Meer
28 days ago

WTF did I just read? I assume this person is paid to produce this drivel, which is very depressing.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
28 days ago

I think even flyover women would like to be thought of as more than gestational envelopes.

They are considered uneducated doormats.

(goes on to condescendingly describe them as frumpy, out of the loop, and tongue-tied)

Readers get whiplash when you simultaneously reduce people to, and praise them for, their body parts. Are flyover women unjustly ignored, or should they shut up and get back in the birthin’ room?

Snowberry
Snowberry
28 days ago

@Podkayne Lives:

I’m not clear on how women are supposed to become more manlike by having abortions, since cis men don’t get abortions, and they are the overwhelming majority of men…but never mind.

I thought it was pretty clear – men don’t risk pregnancy from casual sex, so women can be “more like men” by engaging in causal sex without having babies by getting abortions.

She seems to have forgotten the existence of birth control, or somehow thinks that abortion *is* the primary form of birth control for most casual-sex-engaging women. And probably also that desiring baby-free casual sex is a “man” thing, “real women” have sex mostly to make babies. Which, if true, I’m left wondering how men are supposed to be “real men” in her world.

Fabe
Fabe
28 days ago

@Allandrel
RE: TSR
WOW,that was yeah. But judging from the at least the 1st three pages of the comments a lot of people are not impressed either.

Full Metal Ox
28 days ago

Dear Fake Geek Boys: you seem to be forgetting that Jennell Jaquays was involved with D&D pretty much from the ground floor as a game designer and illustrator:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennell_Jaquays

LollyPop
LollyPop
28 days ago

“Therefore, to be equal, women must be able to eliminate the consequences of sex, like men, and rid themselves of unborn children through unrestricted abortion.”

I’ve been thinking about the idea of consequences for women in right wing/manosphere circles because it’s something the MGTOWs talk about A LOT. Like how modern women want a life free from consequences, with the help of simps and big daddy government etc. And I realised in their minds appropriate consequences should be:

A woman being too overtly pretty/glamorous/dressed revealing/happily flirting = rape
Sex = pregnancy. Always. In every circumstance. As if there aren’t myriad ways to prevent it which aren’t abortions, even if none are 100% reliable.
Pregnancy without man around = no government or family support. Destitution. Social shame. Ideally death.

So basically the life of Tess Durbeyfield. Apparently it’s the only way to get us to behave.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
28 days ago

Theses clown love to think they represent the “silent majority” when they are a tiny fraction of a sliver of a part of the general population.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
28 days ago

@Allandrel : I have seen that TSR debacle from very far away. I was sad but not surprised to see that go awry.

TSR was a shit firm, who was quite mismanaged. Gary Gygax is a legend but his stuff didn’t age particulary well, and they were plenty of (probably mostly unintentional) racism in earlier D&D. I never heard of his son, so him suddenly remembering that his father created tabletop RPG looked more like a cash grab than anything else.

Mostly_Lurking
Mostly_Lurking
28 days ago

Well, that gif is a whole lotta NOPE.

And so is the incomprehensible garbage this lady is spewing, like WTF?

clever sound bites, high-end advertising, and popular hashtags

Yes, we all know conservatives never target their simple-minded base with empty catchphrases (Make ‘Murica Great Again!!!) or flashy flag graphics. Oh, and high-end advertising is CAPITALIST, which they definitely hate.

being a woman is synonymous with carrying something

So whenever dudes pretend to be all chivalrous and carry something for a woman, they’re erasing her femininity? What about door-holding?

Romance languages, where words like “ocean,” “ship,” and “oven,” are feminine. This is why boats are named after women.

Orrr, it’s because men tend to treat women like objects and vice versa?

Therefore, to be equal, women must be able to eliminate the consequences of sex, like men, and rid themselves of unborn children through unrestricted abortion.

Yes, I can’t even tell you how many men have had unrestricted abortions. We really outta make them take responsibility.

Mostly_Lurking
Mostly_Lurking
28 days ago

@Allandrel

So I just did a speed read on that Gygax thing, and

On Wizards of the Coast, Lorraine Williams, & Original TSR

They just took as all corporate raiders do the treasures and then tried to make them their own. American Indians did the same thing they would, um, wipe out another tribe many times take the women and children and murder off everything else and leave to make your tribe that much better, room to grow.

What the hell??

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
28 days ago

[W]omen must be able to eliminate the consequences of sex, like men

Because I am a feminist and thus think about this sort of thing instead of accepting the received wisdom, I know that a man cannot eliminate the consequences of sex. But a man might ignore the consequences of sex.

Snowberry
Snowberry
28 days ago

Don’t really care much about gaming, so I only briefly checked it out of boredom. But I get the impression that Ernie Gygax thinks he’s owed the rights to TSR’s old games as part of his “cultural heritage” or some other weird group birthright-type thing where WOtC appropriated D&D from his family and friend group(s), and he wants to reclaim them. And also, his idea of “nonpolitical” is “semi-compulsive regressive cisheteronormativity with a dash of casual 1970s racism” which is, these days, a pretty openly political take. (It always was, it was just partially normalized by the culture and invisible to the average middle class white man back in the 70s and 80s.)

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
28 days ago

Yes, I can’t even tell you how many men have had unrestricted abortions.

The author instinctively veers toward ranting against abortion specifically, while ostensibly talking about women generally choosing childfree lives, as in the stereotype of liberated successful career woman she writes about. I doubt she really believes abortion is the main reason why liberal women (and most conservative women) manage to not have as many as 5-10 children.

Likewise, pregnancy is described as “consequences of sex”, in classic anti-abortion language, even though in the context of the piece, it should be the consequence of being woman. Or at least the consequence of having sex while being woman. Supposedly, conservative women deserve credit for accepting this consequence, whereas men deserve to have sex without consequences, because that’s their natural lot in life. And then she asks why feminists see “male lifestyle” as superior and desirable.

Quite often conservatives recognize that liberal men also support abortion/contraception in order to avoid the “consequences of sex”, inasmuch as those consequences affect men in the first place. But then, you couldn’t claim that having consequence-free sex is an inherently male trait that women try to emulate.

Allandrel
Allandrel
28 days ago

@Snowberry

<blockquote>And also, his idea of “nonpolitical” is “semi-compulsive regressive cisheteronormativity with a dash of casual 1970s racism” which is, these days, a pretty openly political take. (It always was, it was just partially normalized by the culture and invisible to the average middle class white man back in the 70s and 80s.)</blockquote>

Indeed, this seems to be a very common idea, that “agrees withe my political asumptions” equals “nonpolitical,” and anything else is “political.”

Especially the aggressively political idea “people different from me exist and matter.”

I especially love it when these guys claim that a work that “used to be nonpolitical” has been taken over by the SJWs, and it is something like Star Trek or Star Wars that was always very political.

Vic
Vic
28 days ago

This is why boats are named after women

The Titanic
The Arizona
The USS Ronald Reagan

Are those women’s names?

Mrs Morley
Mrs Morley
27 days ago

We see it in the Romance languages, where words like “ocean,” “ship,” and “oven,” are feminine. This is why boats are named after women.

Except they aren’t.

Let’s just take some examples from French.

Ship– le navire
boat – le bateau
Ocean – l’océan (masc)
Yes, “the sea” is “la mer” – feminine. In Latin though,mare is neuter.

Oven – le four

Ok, that’s three for three.

rusalka
rusalka
27 days ago

We see it in the Romance languages, where words like “ocean,” “ship,” and “oven,” are feminine. This is why boats are named after women.

Funny… In German, another language with grammatical gender (and closer related to English at that) these words are male and neutral (der Ozean, der Ofen, das Schiff)… it’s almost like this stuff is constructed. You know, like gender roles… What’s less funny though is that this kind of language phenomenon actually has an impact on speakers. Like there’s a difference in how people perceive things as more feminine or masculine depending on the pronoun their language uses for a certain word. Hence there’s often a association of “male” with the sun in many languages, while the german sun is “female” and also perceived as such.

Other “things” female in German include: Weapons, bombs and violence. I wonder what that flyover woman would think about that…

Last edited 27 days ago by rusalka
Dalillama
27 days ago

Ships are assigned female pronouns in English because their launching is considered a symbolic marriage between the ship and the sea, the latter represented by King Neptune.

bekabot
bekabot
27 days ago

You know what her flyover women sound like to me? They sound like people who could stand to get a better deal.

Speaking as a leftist, folks. Back over to you.

bekabot
bekabot
27 days ago

“there’s often a association of ‘male’ with the sun in many languages, while the german sun is ‘female’ and also perceived as such”

Pretty much all northern European people, whether their languages are Germanic or Celtic, have a masculine moon and a feminine sun. J. R. R. Tolkien stuck to the same scheme when it came to ‘sexing’ his Two Trees of Valinor.

I don’t know about the Russians. I did notice, though, that in the <i>Despicable Me</i> movies, Gru (Russian) is identified with the moon while his girlfriend, Lucy Wilde, is identified with the sun.

Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
27 days ago

Count me in as another harried slob who’s a feminist. Most of the time, looking elegant is not a priority. That was even truer when my son was little. In fact, becoming a mother made me a lot more of a feminist.

If anyone’s interested, I had a bit of a rant about pockets on Medium
https://medium.com/@sheilacrosby_4873/pockets-8cd3d02f925?sk=1e9b938f8acffea845aa8ea6d902c415

Pazuzu's Petals
Pazuzu's Petals
27 days ago

Hello all. Eight-year lurker here. Might go back to lurking again after this, but this struck a nerve.

I live in a rapidly growing town, in a very red part of a blue state. My family has been here for many generations. I am surrounded by assholes like the one who wrote that article, and more move here every day. They’re steadily paving over my hometown to make room for all the consumerist amenities their lifestyles demand. It is infuriating.

I probably didn’t need to tell anybody this, but in my experience the average bourgeois Diet Fash who reads The Federalist is nothing like what that article describes. Being a down-home, salt-of-the-earth, folksy American Gothic traditionalist is just a manufactured identity they latch onto. Most of them are rootless, cultureless, white-collar caricatures who work in the military-industrial complex and have never hoed a row in their lives. They move to my town, get a big stupid pickup and an arsenal of impractical firearms they might shoot once or twice, and then go around acting like they’re Just Folks. They’d be nothing but comical if they weren’t so dangerous.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

Notorious Ph.D.
Notorious Ph.D.
27 days ago

We see it in the Romance languages, where words like “ocean,” “ship,” and “oven,” are feminine. This is why boats are named after women.

First: That’s not how language works. At all.

Second: agreed with @Mrs. Morely. Same goes for Catalan, another Romance language, in which all those words, plus “sea” and “boat” are masculine.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
27 days ago

… el océano/el mar, el barco/el navío, el horno … I mean, come on! By this person Spanish isn’t a Romance language now????

Last edited 27 days ago by opposablethumbs
Some Chick
Some Chick
27 days ago

How do they manage to lump materialism in with marxism? it’s like she doesn’t even have the basic understanding of Marxism.
Also, she doesn’t seem to understand how humans work.

KayJayBay
KayJayBay
27 days ago

ah yes, those romance languages and their feminine words, like in Spanish, el barco, el mar and el horno.

Steph
Steph
27 days ago

I had no idea that not having children and having paid work made me “a man”.

People like the author are typically transphobes who insist our gender identity is a matter of biological reality based on sex.

But apparently my gender is actually based on lifestyle choices / the lifestyle you lead?

Steph
Steph
27 days ago

Incidentally I never had children and actually that is something that fills me with great sadness – but not having kids has nothing to do with work or feminism or whatever buzzwords conservatives like to blame things on.

I just never met anybody to have kids with. That said I would never want to be a SAHM. Wanting to be financially independent is a key part of my personality. Yes dear author, woman can feel like that too!

Susan
Susan
27 days ago

Not only is gender in romance languages only barely correlated with biological sex, but the words for oven and ship in French are masculine. Also, vagina. Moreover, “latest Marxist fads” is hilarious. What could she even have in mind?

.45
.45
27 days ago

@ Pazuzu’s Petals

“big stupid pickup truck”.

Yeah, that reminds of one time I hesitated about asking a coworker if she would use her pickup truck to help me haul some stuff. I knew she was obsessed with her “baby” and had a lot of self image invested in being a country girl with a fancy pickup. Turned out although she was quite serious about keeping it clean, she enjoyed taking it out mudding and whathaveyou, so she was happy to help.

Most of the other people I know legitimately use their pickups for real pickup stuff like farming and such, but you can usually tell that at a glance when it is covered with dents and scratches, rusting out in places, and has the tailpipe held up with baling wire.

Pazuzu's Petals
Pazuzu's Petals
27 days ago

@.45

Sounds about right. Wear and tear is a decent indicator of use most of the time. I have a big ol’ diesel pickup myself, and it’s in pretty good shape overall but rarely clean. I use it for hauling things, and pulling things, and getting up my driveway when it becomes impassable. I gotta laugh when I see some dude tooling down the road in some shiny new contraption with a hyperextended cab, a 4-foot bed, and a damn Gadsden flag license plate. Like bro, your individualism is not as rugged as you seem to think it is.

Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
27 days ago

Just thought to add – in Spanish slang vagina’s a masculine (el conejo) and dicks are female (la polla)
Also, chickens are male.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
27 days ago

@Sheila : mostly same in french.

‘mostly’ because there’s half a dozen term for either, and at least one of the term for penis is masculine, even if most are feminines.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
26 days ago

Pazuzu’s Petals, have you seen the model testicles that some of those shiny-unscratched-pickup-truck drivers like to adorn their hitches with? 🙄

Nequam
Nequam
26 days ago

@Bookworm: Occasionally I am tempted to go out there with a set of heavy-duty snips and “Please Spay and Neuter Your Pets” stickers and fix the vehicles.

Full Metal Ox
26 days ago

@Nequam:

@Bookworm: Occasionally I am tempted to go out there with a set of heavy-duty snips and “Please Spay and Neuter Your Pets” stickers and fix the vehicles.

By an odd bit of synchronicity, this was yesterday’s featured Word Of The Day on a Livejournal I follow: https://prettygoodword.livejournal.com/845347.html

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
26 days ago

@bekabot

You know what her flyover women sound like to me? They sound like people who could stand to get a better deal.

Speaking as a leftist, folks. Back over to you.

This leftist likes the way you think.

Pazuzu's Petals
Pazuzu's Petals
26 days ago

@Bookworm: oof, yeah I’ve seen them. They’ve always been thankfully rare around here, but they do pop up from time to time. Usually on trucks, but not always. Once I saw one of those ungainly-looking 3-wheeled motorcycle things sporting a pair. Seeing crap of that nature always makes me really grateful that I don’t have neighbors.

EDIT: I just remembered that a similar, um, accessory exists for the AR-15. Never seen that in the wild, never hope to.

Last edited 26 days ago by Pazuzu's Petals
Hypatia's Daughter
Hypatia's Daughter
24 days ago

Yeah, pockets are nice.
But the best (seemingly trivial) thing that happened for Mothers (who were women, by the will o’God) was the handicapped laws that required ramps, lowered curbs & other changes that made it easier to use a wheelchair and A BABY CARRIAGE in public spaces.
Mothers have been lugging kids & pushing strollers over curbs & cobblestones and up steps for at least 200 years and nobody gave a damn how hard it was. Babies were left sleeping in strollers on the sidewalk because it was too hard to get up steps into the stores. (Nowadays, you would be charged with neglect if you left a baby unattended outdoors.)
Nobody ever thought of passing laws to make life easier for Mothers, but they did for the handicapped, because women’s problems are invisible and it’s THEIR problems, not society’s, and they deserve to be inconvenienced anyway, because Eve.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
24 days ago

@nequam: Your gib. I like the cut of it.

@Hypatia’s Daughter: YES!!! Curb cuts are a boon to everyone, but particularly women pushing kids in strollers. It must be much nicer for the kids as well, not having to fall off a giant cliff just to cross the street, or get hauled up another one. Wheelie luggage toters of any gender also like them, as do people who can walk but not lift their feet up high. Same with ramps, which are also good if you’re just tired. Even for the sacred old white men.

I had a broken ankle a couple years back and used all those everywhere, plus some elevators. (And men’s jeans, because pockets instead of purse is so much easier).