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empathy deficit MGTOW misogyny

MGTOW Etiquette: Don’t hold doors open for women because they’re a bunch of ungrateful bitches who barely know how doors even work

Destroying doors entirely is another option

A handy tip from the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit. You can literally save seconds by not holding doors open for women.

Stop holding the door (self.MGTOW)

submitted 2 hours ago by MotorAggressive5115

A fun exercise that is simply just impolite but a good mental mindfulness routine is to stop holding the door for women. When you first start doing it you realize how little door experience women have from simps holding it their whole lives its like they forgot they had hands. Older women like Karens who have boomer simp husbands might look at you like you raped them when the door comes flying back to do its third law of motion thing that our forefather Isaac Newton figured out except instead of a dumb broad with a thousand d cow stare I believe reading it was an apple.

What a ray of sunshine this fellow must be!

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Brassica
Brassica
4 months ago

I am sitting here giggling envisioning a “thousand cow stare”…

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
4 months ago

Jesus, that GIF makes my blood pressure spike. Men are terrifying when they get that way, and I’ve seen them in that mode a bit much in my life.

bekabot
bekabot
4 months ago

The thousand sheep stare is when your eyes close fast while you’re listening to stuff like this and you drop straight off to sleep.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@Cyborgette – I had a totally different thought, which was “huh, that’d be fun to do”…IF no one would miss that door, and it was a tad softer. 🙂

But, yeah, I wouldn’t want to be near someone who’s so angry they’d destroy property (not necessarily “properly” in the capitalist sense, but something that people use or share). It sucks that you’ve seen people do shit like that in real life. :/

…I mean, guess I have to some extent; I’m not a man and not tall, but I’ve definitely smashed things when angry in the past. Thankfully not for a long time. And no, I don’t want to be a person like that either, it’s not fun, but it must be hundreds of times worse to be/feel threatened.

Overanalytical mood, sorry. At least there’s not much to analyze in the post itself: the premise is laughable (“how little door experience women have” – uh, sure) and the last sentence is a garbled mess.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
4 months ago

This is extremely something that did happen outside his head.

As for the door smashing gif, it reminds me of a classmate I had in grade school who sometimes broke things by just fidgeting with them. One time during recess, he wrestled with the classroom door and accidentally lifted it off hinges.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 months ago

@cyborgette : I agree with that sentiment. I suspect the video is orchestrated with a fake door, but people, mostly men, being ridiculously aggressive is all too common 🙁

If you want to see a positive, it’s pretty much the same phenomen as people being suddenly able to lift a car to save someone behind.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
4 months ago

[Y]ou realize how little door experience women have . . .

This is new news to me.

Last edited 4 months ago by Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
4 months ago

The extent that manospherians are obsessed with door holding will never stop being funny to me.

Most people – of any gender – are just halfway decent and will not slam the door in the faces of people that are behind them and it’s really not a big deal to most of us. But to these dudes, it’s just apparently all they can think about.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
4 months ago

It feels like a simple piece of etiquette: The first one to the door/through the door, holds the door for the person behind them. Regardless of gender, age (to a certain degree), attractiveness, whatever. If you simply can’t hold the door, either because of mobility-issurs or just because your hands are loaded with stuff, say “sorry”.

Do we honestly need to spell this out? Really?

Why are these dudes so allergic to basic courtesy?

Moggie
Moggie
4 months ago

I recall a classroom discussion about equality, decades ago, where a boy complained about door-holding, like it was a gotcha. It’s something which probably seems like a big injustice when you’re 13 years old, but becomes insignificant when you’re a normal functioning adult.

.45
.45
4 months ago

Concerning GIF: Isn’t that one of the UFC guys on set or whatever, with Dana White laughing about how flimsy their doors are? I.E. Could be staged for the drama, or just your everyday angry guy who has spent most of his life fighting and got his feefees hurt.

As for the main premise, dude could have just said “Here’s a good way to be a petty dick for no reason.”

Viscaria
Viscaria
4 months ago

I’ve never before considered my woeful lack of door experience. Can I even hold doors? Open doors? Identify doors? Will some man please come along and teach me what a door is and what to do with it so that I can leave my bedroom

Alan Robertshaw
4 months ago

I’m so polite I even hold revolving doors open for people.

But honesty; they do make such a fuss. I sort of imagine this is how they see door holding.

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Moggie
Moggie
4 months ago

@Viscaria, can you see a large rectangle? You need to turn the knob on your side.

Alan Robertshaw
4 months ago

@ moggie

It’s not always that easy!

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Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
4 months ago

I can’t really see why anyone would give MGTOW time-saving tips considering that they are a bunch of people who seem to routinely go on and on about things that have nothing to do with our shared reality. “Just go already or stop talking about it” would suffice.

Though I’m pretty sure I could have saved a lot of time in my life by not wondering awkwardly whether I should stay put to hold the door open when the next person is x metres away and may not even be making for this particular door. This may or may not have something to do with the fact that I’ve worked at a place where one door would close so swiftly that I was routinely afraid of hitting myself with it.

Moggie
Moggie
4 months ago

@Masse_Mysteria, that sounds related to that thing where you’re approaching someone you know in a corridor, and have to decide how soon to acknowledge them. Too soon, and you have to keep on awkwardly acknowledging them until you pass; too late, and you look like you’re trying to ignore them. It’s a minefield.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
4 months ago

@Alan,

Gif #1 – that’s from the original Clash of the Titans, isn’t it? Man, I need to track down a copy of that movie and see how well it’s held up. I recall it as a pretty fun romp when it first came out.

Gif #2 – I take it that’s why you don’t drink and drive even a little when your vehicle is the TARDIS? XD

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
4 months ago

@ Moggie,

that thing where you’re approaching someone you know in a corridor

Whew, not just me, then! I’d add, though: that thing where you’re approaching someone, and you think you know them, so you wave and call hello, and there’s that thing where you keep awkwardly acknowledging them until you pass, and then as you get close you realise they’re not who you thought they were.

That’s…that’s my life.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
4 months ago

I had a creepy coworker once who always wanted to grab my hand and he’d always be sure to hold doors for me. I preferred to open and close my own doors. Where I live now, it’s much more common for younger men to hold doors for older women, sort of a sign of respect, I guess, in the vein of helping a little old lady across the street. I don’t mind when men my sons’ age hold doors for me, but I don’t care if they don’t, either. I taught my sons to have respect for women overall.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
4 months ago

Bookworm, Weirwood Tree Hugger, You both summed it up perfectly. Holding a door for the next person through is just common decency.

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
4 months ago

I think they are confusing women with Worf from Star Trek. He couldn’t handle doors.

https://youtu.be/yKdqBHExH9I

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
4 months ago

I just started thinking generally about door handles. About how even some dogs and cats – and velociraptors in Jurassic Park – can operate them. Clever girls they are.

I’m vaguely aware that in US many (?) doors have knobs instead of proper handles. Hardly ever seen such thing here. Compared to a handle, a knob seems incredibly impractical for everyone, and outright accessibility limiting for people with various disabilities. Just from pandemic hygienic perspective, you’ll presumably share germs with other people more efficiently if you have to take a good grab of the thing. Though it probably does help slow down velociraptors.

With regard to disabilities and door handles and velociraptors, I remembered that my long ago coworker had a hook prosthesis for hand (I don’t remember which one). She was so discreet with it, it took me several days to notice. Another clever girl, she was.

Alan Robertshaw
4 months ago

@ redsilkphoenix

Jason and the Argonauts I think. Another great Harryhausen film!

@ lumipuna

Last edited 4 months ago by Alan Robertshaw
Snowberry
Snowberry
4 months ago

This is really dating myself, but it reminds me of Shampoo from the Anime/Manga Ranma ½. It was a running gag where people would be going about their day when suddenly she would bust down a wall, walk through the hole, and cheerfully announce something or other. She was far from the only character who engaged in rampant property or scenery destruction, just the only one who would do so in order to casually enter a building.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
4 months ago

That reminds me of a string of Kool-Ade ads from the 1980s. In these, people would be going about their ordinary business on a hot day and someone would remark upon their thirst.

That’s when a large, animated, walking talking jug of Kool-Ade would bust through a nearby wall and announce that the solution to their problem could be had for the low, low price of … well, whatever the heck Kool-Ade cost back in the 80s, which I’m guessing is a lot less than it costs now.

Another character I’ve seen who will routinely bust through a wall and then announce something is Marvel’s The Thing. The first live-action Fantastic Four film features an instance, in which he busts through a wall out of nowhere, announces “No, Vic, it’s clobbering time!”, and proceeds to punch supervillain Victor von Doom across the room. In fact it is this punch that initiates the film’s final fight.

Marvel’s stable has at least one more wall-buster: the Hulk, of course. But he doesn’t tend to announce anything right after doing so, preferring instead to be the strong, silent type during combat situations.

Alan Robertshaw
4 months ago

Bit of trivia.

At Jonestown, it was Flavor-Ade they drank, not Kool-Ade. So really we’re getting the saying wrong.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
4 months ago

@Surplus – Nowadays, it’s the Kool Aid drinkers who burst into threads to announce that we’re all wrong.

Re: doors, I wonder if the OP gets angry when automatic doors hold themselves open for women?

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
4 months ago

@epitome

Hey you don’t have to feel bad about it! TBH I also have a history of anger problems; it took a lot of work to get that stuff under control. (And then I had to learn the ropes all over again when I started HRT, and started actually Feeling things that had been numbed out for 15+ years.)

Unlearning this stuff is hard, especially for people with a bunch of trauma. And being self-aware about it, and consistently doing better, counts for a lot more than being Pure and Innocent in my book.

Full Metal Ox
4 months ago

This brings back memories of my dad, and a mannerism of his that used to drive me into a froth: whenever the family was passing through a door, he’d often grab me by the scruff of the neck and push me through ahead of him.

I finally figured out where it was coming from:

(1) Dad was an impatient man.

(2) I was, and remain, a chronic dawdlebug.

(3) Dad was a child of the Depression who’d had “Ladies first!” ingrained with the force of a geas—with the result that he couldn’t bring himself to enter a door until all the women and girls in the party had preceded him.

tim gueguen
4 months ago

The guy smashing the door is former MMA fighter and UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Quinton “Rampage” Jackson.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
4 months ago

Were all his Rampages so poorly staged?

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
4 months ago

@Threp: It’s pro wrestling, or next of kin to it.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
4 months ago

@Surplus:

Dude looks like a toddler having a shitfit in a playhouse. Not many pro wrestlers would stand for that back when I were paying attention to that world – they’ve a bit more self respect in their dramas 🙂

(Of course, the writers of said dramas don’t always agree!)

LollyPop
LollyPop
4 months ago

thousand d cow stare

I live next door to a field of cows and their stares, against popular belief, are full of intent and seem rather thoughtful. It’s actually pretty unnerving! I think they must have been fed as young uns using a quad bike because they run over every time me and the husband pull up on the motorbike.

And on another note, it makes me sad that Karen has been nearly fully co-opted by the sexists. Even left wing young men seem to use it in a “aren’t middle age women awful” kind of way.

sarah_kay_gee
sarah_kay_gee
4 months ago

I mean, “holding the door open for women” isn’t really a thing, For normal humans, it’s “holding the door open for people“. If you go though a door that’s not automatic and that’s going to shut and there’s someone in a reasonable distance behind you, you hold it open. It’s really not a gendered thing, it’s just normal human politeness, at least everywhere I’ve lived.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 months ago

@lolypop : not all middle aged women !

the “Karen” phenomen is basically trying to create a label for a form of unsufferable behavior, who largely was left alone beforehand. The bad thing is that generalities are made. The good thing is that that kind of bad behavior is now significantly more shameful, which is a condition for it to happen less often.

LollyPop
LollyPop
4 months ago

@Ohlmann

Oh yes I agree. I understand the context and I’m pleased there was a way to spotlight that behaviour (I spent a significant portion of my working life thus far in retail. I have been Karened multiple times and belittled. In my experience, men behaved this way less often but were significantly worse and more aggressive when they did). I also know lots of Terfy, upper/middle class white feminists have railed against “Karen” in an extremely un-self-aware and tone deaf way.

But I also think that misogynist men are gleeful about “Karen” and that it is uncomfortably loved by the worst people on the internet. It’s no ones fault outside of those circles and I’m not going to stop using the term but it still sucks.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 months ago

I didn’t think of the misuse by misogynist, but it make complete sense.

And I also agree with the pattern of male karens to be less common but much worse. Part of it is that men are more trained toward upping aggressivity and intimidation when their approach fail, while women are more trained toward negociation or deescalation.

Applied to asshole, it mean assholish women aren’t less toxic per se, but they do it with less outbursts and more background radiations.

Hambeast
Hambeast
4 months ago

As a 61 year old cis/het woman, I’ve held doors for hundreds, if not thousands of people in my life. I’ve also had a probably equal number of doors held for me by all sorts of people.

So, I think it’s more of a “silly men who don’t know how polite society even works” thing than an “ungrateful bitches who barely know how doors even work” thing.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@sarah_kay_gee & @Hambeast – Yes, in my experience it’s pretty non-gendered.

I mean, I’m aware it used to be considered more of a men-to-women “chivalry” thing, along with stuff like giving up your seat on the bus, but that doesn’t mean it’s like that now.

It seems the MGTOW sorts have a narrow and static view of life, like, “Okay, I read this somewhere or saw it in a movie, must be 100% true all the time.”

@Cyborgette – Thanks and don’t worry about me! I’m not anxious about the door business. I was just thinking how it must have been hell for my parents & brother those times I smashed plates and cups, because it’s like threatening violence, and I think I need to be aware of that. But without letting guilt get in the way of actually doing better. If that makes any sense.

It is a tough process, though. I wasn’t smashing plates [note to PUAs: not meant in a sexual way!], but I did yell much too loudly yesterday when my mom startled me. She looked at me like, “What is wrong with you??” (I was anxious about something unrelated; shouldn’t have taken it out on her, but it’s sort of like a split-second reaction.) Anyway!

Ninja Socialist
Ninja Socialist
4 months ago

I’ll never forget getting locked in my flat because my girly hands and tiny irly brain just couldn’t figure out how to open that door/s, Seriously, what is wrong with these guys? I open doors for men, women and children all the time because it’s the polite thing to do. These asshats problably expect sex just because they open a door for a women.

Ninja Socialist
Ninja Socialist
4 months ago

@Cyborgette: I’ve known men like that. They loved punching holes in walls. One tried to punch a hole in a wall in my home which was over 100 yeas old. Unfortunately for him lath and plaster are much less forgiving than the usual dry wall one now finds in buildings. He broke his hand in a bunch of places and barely dented the wall. He was a truly terrifying man to be around. We had to rescue his wife one night when he was out because she was afraid he’d kill her.

Ninja Socialist
Ninja Socialist
4 months ago

Could MGTOW please live up to their name and go the hell away already? I’m disgusted by the fact they feel the need to spread their toxic beliefs to young men who have no real world experience with women.
I think in the future we could minimize misogyny by encouraging girls and boys to be friends instead of dividing them into boy/girl groups. It’s hard to understand each other when they’re separated from each other at all times. Maybe we wouldn’t end up with men who think women are a different species.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
4 months ago

My main problem with the whole ’Karen’ thing is that it no longer refers to just a certain kind of rude behavior. Based on my own (very limited) observations on how it’s being used, it’s turned – or is turning – into shorthand for ‘OMG! That unattractive middle-aged woman thinks she’s PEOPLE, acting like she’s got the right to be heard when upset hurrhurrhurr!’ Or something along those lines, anyway. Even when said woman has a legitimate complaint she’s called a Karen for acting ‘uppity’ (for lack of a better term here) instead of accepting poor service as her lot in life.

Kinda like the way the term ‘Mary Sue’ morphed over the years from the ‘I’M the center of this story! It’s all about MEEEEEEEEEE!’ kind of story-breaking character to ‘I don’t like this female character; she doesn’t act like the man’s trophy the way she’s supposed to. MAAAARY SUUUEEEE!!!!!’’. One more way of being told to shut up. :/

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
4 months ago

@Redsilkphoenix

My main problem with the whole ’Karen’ thing is that it no longer refers to just a certain kind of rude behavior.

And then there’s the problem with the fact that some actual people are named Karen. As far as I’m concerned, this tactic was sexist and ageist from the get-go.

MV96
MV96
4 months ago

Wasn’t “Karen” invented by black people to highlight some white women’s entitlement?

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
4 months ago

@MV96 : I remember that. It don’t change the ageist/sexist opinion.