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dating tips MGTOW MGTOWs explain sex misogyny

“When a woman doesn’t orgasm, she is telling you her vagina is broken,” and other sex tips from the MGTOW subreddit

Today, some practical advice for the straight men from the MGTOW subreddit. The topic? Female orgasms and how not to give them, a subject on which your typical MGTOW has vast experience.

A fellow called ironmanknowsjoe sets the tone for the discussion:

A man doesn’t have to give a woman anything. That includes orgasms.

Our old friend fiend DangZagnut sets forth his philosophy of sex:

If she doesn’t cum it’s her problem.

When a woman doesn’t orgasm, she is explicitly telling you her vagina is broken, and she feels bad, and should feel bad. She’s an incomplete woman, and it’s entirely her fault for being some kind of freak. This is an excellent time to hold her down, nut in her, and tell her female orgasms don’t matter.

Remember: when looking to MGTOWs for advice on sex, or on anything really, just make sure to do the exact opposite of whatever they recommend.

It’s not my job to make her orgasm, it’s my job to make me orgasm.

if she doesn’t, it’s her problem, she can break out the power tools when I’m done or whatever makes her happy. …

If I don’t orgasm, I don’t blame her. Her job is to lay there like a starfish with a bored expression on her face, while I do all the work. If she wants to orgasm during intercourse, she should fantasize about someone else, it’s not like I’m not doing the same.

I don’t know why these guys love to explain just how bad as sex they are.

An anonymous commenter has similarly strict rules about orgasms.

The female orgasm is literally the most selfish and pointless thing in the world.

First, it has ZERO biological purpose and socially, dating and sex is already all about women.

How so?

A man has to make himself datable (physically and financially) then he has to approach a woman. Then he has to pick a place, entertain her all night and pretend to give a shit about her mindless nonsense, then he has to pay for the date and then, if he did all the “right things” he gets to have sex.

This is such an old-fashioned way of dating that I can’t help but wonder if he’s been on any dates at all in the past twenty years. Or ever.

This should be the part that’s for the man, but NOPE, he still has to now worry about pleasing her and if he fails in his final task of making her orgasm, he’s labeled as some kind of failure.

Fuck that. You take me out on a date and pay for my dinner and make me laugh and I’ll worry about making you orgasm.

As if. You’re not going to have an orgasm with this dude this way either. He would probably spend the whole date complaining that you were emasculating him by paying.

There’s really no way to win other than to think and act the exact opposite of whatever MGTOWs say.

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epronovost
epronovost
24 days ago

Good God, some people really hate sex and yet seem to be obsessed with it.

On another note, David, you need to make a quick spell check on that post. You’ve got a “now” instead of a “how” in your first paragraph, “as sex” instead of “at sex” after your third quote.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
24 days ago

I read the title of the article and I knew it was going to be awful, but this

This is an excellent time to hold her down, nut in her, and tell her female orgasms don’t matter.

is even more disgusting than I’d expected.

I don’t know why I keep hoping to see some scrap of empathy from these dudes. So far I never have.

Steph
Steph
24 days ago

A man has to make himself datable (physically and financially)

It is amazing to me that the genuinely believe that this only applies to men. That women don’t also have to make themselves dateable.

Full Metal Ox
24 days ago

And if your date chooses to have agency in bed, she’s a slut. (And contaminated goods, because she must have learned that somewhere.)

.45
.45
24 days ago

“A man has to make himself datable (physically and financially)”

Ok.

“then he has to approach a woman.”

Got it.

“Then he has to pick a place”

Check.

“entertain her all night”

She keeps coming back for more, so I guess…

“and pretend to give a shit about her mindless nonsense”

Oh-uh, I wasn’t pretending. Fellas, is it gay if you give a shit?

I suppose I should thank them for setting such a low bar and making me look good, but damn…

R. Bridger
R. Bridger
24 days ago

they think life is a dating sim 🤣 if you select the right dialogue options and give her the right items, then you win, and the reward is sex. what a joke.

Jon
Jon
24 days ago

Sex to me has been better when the other person I’m with is really active.
I’ve had sees where someone laid there bored but it wasn’t particularly pleasurable.

Also, causing a woman to have an orgasm or her enjoying having sex with you kinda increases the odds of a repeat for well sex.

But in any case MGTOWs shouldn’t be talking about sex with women. They’re supposed to be going their own way.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
24 days ago

What if… and this is just crazy talk… many of these guys have GTOW?

Because it sounds like most of them have never met a woman except the mom who brings their food to the basement.

Jon
Jon
24 days ago

https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2021/05/25/when-a-woman-doesnt-orgasm-she-is-telling-you-her-vagina-is-broken-and-other-sex-tips-from-the-mgtow-subreddit/#comment-3663063
Eh I’m not a fan of this view of insults. Plenty decent men do live with their parents a lot of the time due to economic forces where doing so is simply more practical.

Crip Dyke
24 days ago

I read this a couple hours ago. I might have commented then, but couldn’t.

There’s a lot of stupid stuff in the manosphere and I like laughing at it. There’s also a large number of things that are terrible but raise complicated issues and I feel it’s good to talk about them.

The subject of David’s OP here just made me sick to my stomach, literally nauseated. Particularly this:

When a woman doesn’t orgasm, she is explicitly telling you her vagina is broken, and she feels bad, and should feel bad. She’s an incomplete woman, and it’s entirely her fault for being some kind of freak. This is an excellent time to hold her down, nut in her, and tell her female orgasms don’t matter.

I would never send someone to prison for writing this kind of thing, but make no mistake, I find the odds that someone who would write this in all serious is someone who has abused and raped in the past to be so high I can’t read this without thinking of the women he has probably hurt.

I don’t feel amused or superior. I don’t feel an opportunity to grow or to have a discussion that could help a community grow.

I just feel stabbed in the gut with a poison blade, desperate to puke the toxins out.

Snowberry
Snowberry
24 days ago

Back when I first heard about the Miggies, several years ago, it at least mostly made sense for them to talk about women so much, because they were all about the reverse Lysistrata plot.

After it became obvious that their refusal to have sex would not meaningfully be noticed by anyone or meaningfully punish women (because they were just a tiny group screaming into the void and not an actual social movement), they then tried to justify not having sex with women in other ways – while still obsessing over having sex with women. It’s a lot like a not-eating-cake group which spends half its time complaining about how cake is revolting and no one should eat it, and half its time complaining about how unfair it is that other people eat cake.

Now it’s like they’re changing into a new kind of PUA subculture, except somehow a little more toxic.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
24 days ago

@Snowberry: That’s a good analysis. Like most of the right wing/manosphere, they’re doing it partly for attention. Yelling louder so someone will notice them for something.

@Crip Dyke: it made me nauseous too. Let’s hope he’s only fantasizing and hasn’t ever really been that close to a woman.

And these guys wonder why they can’t get girlfriends…

Ninja Socialist
Ninja Socialist
24 days ago

I’m not sure why these guys want to have sex with people they so clearly despise. It would be nice if they’d stop whimpering about women all day and maybe fix themselves before they hurt someone.

Ninja Socialist
Ninja Socialist
24 days ago

@Steph, they somehow manage to ignore all the hairstyling, plucking, dieting, waxing, make-up, clothes etc (never mind having to sit through boring dates with dull men who tell awful jokes and only talk about themselves and still trying to be interesting) that most of us do while dating.. It’s like they’ve never met any actual women in their lives.

Last edited 24 days ago by Ninja Socialist
Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
23 days ago

I feel like if a woman suggest to do in bed that i do with my husband, which is we start out with me on top so i can grind and get the stimulation I need to orgasm and then changed positions for him, they would run out of the room screaming. These are the type of people I imagine don’t like changing positions and just want to keep the woman in a position where she can’t do anything

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
23 days ago

Also I started my new summer job and way to many creepy old men have a little mermaid fetish. The comments that have been said to me while their granddaughter/ daughter are out of ear shot have made my skin crawl. Even more when you think about Ariel being 16.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
23 days ago

But for miggies the only women that blip on their radar are the ones they want to have sex with and they “obviously” woke up like that with no effort involved. Hurl.

Also, I concur that these guys sound like abusers or worse. A lot of dehumanizing going on.

LollyPop
LollyPop
23 days ago

pretend to give a shit about her mindless nonsense”

Pretty bold for someone who spends their time posting to the MGTOW forum.

“When a woman doesn’t orgasm, she is explicitly telling you her vagina is broken, and she feels bad, and should feel bad. She’s an incomplete woman, and it’s entirely her fault for being some kind of freak.”

Isn’t this like fifties-era bad and rejected psychology? The whole Freud vaginal vs. clitoral orgasms thing. I always assume I have a handle on modern misogyny but then something which feels truly left-field and antiquated pops up and surprises me.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
23 days ago

Yelling louder so someone will notice them for something

What scares me is that they’re not stopping at yelling.

Alan Robertshaw
23 days ago

Early Tinder

I like the tactical use of a cat here.

comment image

Chris Oakley
Chris Oakley
23 days ago

I…I got nothin’.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
23 days ago

Just because you don’t know how to use the equipment, doesn’t mean it’s broken.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
23 days ago

Just because you don’t know how to use the equipment, doesn’t mean it’s broken.

I were thinking of one of my grandad’s sayings: “A poor workman blames their tools or the materials.”

He’d have not been over impressed with this lot.

.45
.45
23 days ago

@ Elaine The Witch

You: “I feel like if a woman suggest to do in bed that i do with my husband”

This dude: “if she doesn’t, it’s her problem, she can break out the power tools when I’m done or whatever makes her happy.”

Or whatever makes her happy…

By his own logic, he should be down with your position. (Pun not intended, but left in anyway.)

Full Metal Ox
23 days ago

@weirwoodtreehugger; @Threp:

Just because you don’t know how to use the equipment, doesn’t mean it’s broken.

I were thinking of one of my grandad’s sayings: “A poor workman blames their tools or the materials.”

He’d have not been over impressed with this lot.

And consider the option of following the damn instructions.

Alan Robertshaw
23 days ago

@ full metal ox

following the damn instructions.

Never! Sex should be like assembling Ikea furniture. You bluff your way through it.

Ok, it might end up taking longer than you thought, it doesn’t quite look like you imagined, and you have a few bits left over. But you can chill over vegan meatballs afterwards.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
23 days ago

This is an excellent time to hold her down, nut in her, and tell her female orgasms don’t matter.

There’s edgeplay, and then there’s just being edgy about playing on people.

ObSidJag
ObSidJag
23 days ago

@Alan Robertshaw: love the glimpse of “Early Tinder,” especially after wading through that…ugh…verbiage earlier (honestly, I don’t know how the dark lord keeps his sanity after immersing himself in such drek, but I digress).

In the pic, is it just one cat, or are there 2 (maybe the other guy’s holding a dog–kinda hard to tell from the pic)? Also, is it just me, or does the one prospective groom look like Teddy Roosevelt?

As to the…er…hum, body of the text, there aren’t words enough to describe how loathsome I find them. Otoh, nice of these entities to give me the 411 on just how inept & clueless they are re sex.

Last edited 23 days ago by ObSidJag
Full Metal Ox
23 days ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

Never! Sex should be like assembling Ikea furniture. You bluff your way through it.

Funny you should use that metaphor:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IKEAErotica

And presenting a squirrel…nutting in…the world’s most patient Bernese Mountain Dog:

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
23 days ago

If two people having sex are to only care about their own orgasms, wouldn’t masturbating save everyone a lot of hassle? Though I assume that would also cut out the validation of having got to inflict yourself on another person.

This kind of reminds me of some sort of sex education material that was included in a calendar they gave us at school when I was in my teens. It was supposed to be giving you the facts in a hip and cool way, and it caused some stir since some instances deemed it inappropriate or whatever. There was a line about how there’s no point in having sex if there’s no feeling* involved, since if there’s none, then you’d be better off doing push-ups, at least you’ll get more fit.

Then again, I don’t think people who think of orgasms as a job would respond well to that kind of advice.

* I assumed this didn’t mean you have to love everyone you have sex with, just that you shouldn’t rush into sex just for the “achievement”.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
23 days ago

It’s not my job to make her orgasm, it’s my job to make me orgasm.

if she doesn’t, it’s her problem, she can break out the power tools when I’m done or whatever makes her happy. …

There doesn’t seem to be much point in having partnered sex at all unless you’re helping each other experience something that cannot be experienced solo. Most people want something more than just a release out of their sex, usually some combination of intimacy and fancy sensations and partner assisted orgasms. Most people reciprocate with sexual services, but usually you do have to at least reciprocate with something.

MGTOW seem to favor this (convenient for men) traditional view where simple intercourse is seen as good enough for the man, and therefore it “should” be good enough for the woman too. It’s not really seen as one person serving the other, just two people selfishly rubbing their genitals on something soft.

rusalka
rusalka
23 days ago

If two people having sex are to only care about their own orgasms, wouldn’t masturbating save everyone a lot of hassle?

Exactly my thought. Especially considering that their idea of sex (laying there like a starfish…?) seems like a total waste of time. Why don’t you just go and fuck a fleshlight instead of another human being!?

Having said that. I wish I could believe that none of these people actually ever had sex with a live woman. But sadly I don’t… I’m curious about sex and have an unhealthy interest in reading online comments so I had the displeasure to read a sad amount of sexual accounts (and ideas people hold about sex) that were not fundamentaly different from the vile shit these dudes are spouting – not as obviously misogynistic, just infuriatingly, arrogantly ignorant about women.

Lakitha K Tolbert
Lakitha K Tolbert
23 days ago

Okay, this entire thing, that whole thread, is so wild and over the top, I just feel like none of the people in that thread, actually believe any of the sh*t they wrote.

Not that people like that don’t exist or don’t think that way, but people like that don’t tend to be gleeful and bragging about it. There is definitely an element of trying to be as shocking as possible, while standing around shooting the sh*t with the”boys”, either for sh*ts and giggles, or for internet acclaim, of some kind.

Is there such a thing as “non-virtue signalling”? Is “vice” signalling a thing?

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
23 days ago

For what it’s worth, I’ve long grown wary of the kind of language where you “give” a woman orgasms, like she has relatively little agency on the matter.

Reportedly, some men make it a matter of personal pride to give their partner the most mind-blowing orgasms ever, whether she wants it or nor*. Since some women don’t orgasm easily (or at all, or don’t orgasm easily from the kind of stimulation their partner can/will provide), the end result is social pressure to orgasm, awkwardness, shame about poor orgasm function, faked orgasms etc.

If I had a partner, I’d consider it my business to “help her pursue orgasm”, as I’d put it. Or rather, presumably she’s want to experience all kinds of sexual pleasure, including but not limited to (assisted) orgasms. I certainly know I do. I don’t orgasm that easily either, and it’s not necessarily something I’d want to focus on in partnered sex.

*I’m half joking, but controlling your partner’s orgasms in this manner is actually a (somewhat niche) type of BDSM play called “forced orgasm”. In this context specifically, I feel it very appropriate to talk about “giving” someone orgasms. Of course, forced orgasm play is only feasible with someone who orgasms easily and gets off on being forced to orgasm.

Jesalin, Sapphic Goddess of Lust
Jesalin, Sapphic Goddess of Lust
23 days ago

Never! Sex should be like assembling Ikea furniture.

Sounds great to me, I always end up with ‘extra’ screws..

Full Metal Ox
23 days ago

@Lumipuna:

Reportedly, some men make it a matter of personal pride to give their partner the most mind-blowing orgasms ever, whether she wants it or nor*. Since some women don’t orgasm easily (or at all, or don’t orgasm easily from the kind of stimulation their partner can/will provide), the end result is social pressure to orgasm, awkwardness, shame about poor orgasm function, faked orgasms etc….

…*I’m half joking, but controlling your partner’s orgasms in this manner is actually a (somewhat niche) type of BDSM play called “forced orgasm”. In this context specifically, I feel it very appropriate to talk about “giving” someone orgasms. Of course, forced orgasm play is only feasible with someone who orgasms easily and gets off on being forced to orgasm.

Not to mention that surprise—at least some people with clitorises have a refractory period, and continuing to abrade away at the raw sensitized tissue of someone who’s done for tonight is no favor.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
23 days ago

@Full Metal Ox

And consider the option of following the damn instructions.

Steady on there! Let’s not get too extreme.

Moggie
Moggie
23 days ago

entertain her all night and pretend to give a shit about her mindless nonsense

If all your date partner talks about is “mindless nonsense” to you, isn’t that partly on you? Try to date someone you have interests in common with! If you don’t do that, chances are she’s as bored by you as you are by her.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
23 days ago

A man has to make himself datable (physically and financially)

I feel like there are a few important words missing here, such as “emotionally”, “socially”, and “non-murderously”.

Crip Dyke
23 days ago

I always end up with ‘extra’ screws

Jesalin wins the entire internet.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
22 days ago

A man has to make himself datable (physically and financially) then he has to approach a woman. Then he has to pick a place, entertain her all night and pretend to give a shit about her mindless nonsense, then he has to pay for the date and then, if he did all the “right things” he gets to have sex.

This is such an old-fashioned way of dating that I can’t help but wonder if he’s been on any dates at all in the past twenty years. Or ever.

I’ve dated in every decade from the early 1970s to the early 2000s. This dating expert — isn’t. Pick a place? Entertain me all night? Pay for the date? WTF.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
22 days ago

@Alan Robertshaw, @ObSidJag

That photo is priceless. I eyeballed the guy with glasses and a cat, put myself in the place of an unmarried young woman at the turn of the twentieth century who liked to read and had an adventurous spirit, and said to myself, Well…maybe.

As for the other guy holding some sort of animal, my boyfriend’s guess about the identity of the creature was, “Bear cub.”

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
22 days ago

@Lakitha K Tolbert

Is there such a thing as “non-virtue signalling”? Is “vice” signalling a thing?

As far as I’m concerned, every word these guys write (including “the” and “a”) is virtue signaling. It’s just that their virtues are hatred, yelling, and attempting to shock their readers.

Alan Robertshaw
22 days ago

@ Lakitha K Tolbert

Is there such a thing as “non-virtue signalling”? Is “vice” signalling a thing?

Short answer, yes.

The original meaning of virtue is more akin to ‘character(istic)’ or ‘value’. It doesn’t have any inherent positive or negative connotation.

And in the sociological meaning of ‘virtue signalling’ that’s how the word is used.

So wearing a swastika is virtue signalling in the original technical sense.

It’s only the colloquial use of the term that implies someone is trying to look good.

Last edited 22 days ago by Alan Robertshaw
Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
22 days ago

@ Alan

It’s only the colloquial use of the term that implies someone is trying to look good.

I assumed the colloquial use was specifically about “woke” people trying to look good.

Virtue signalling with a swastika is trying to look good for a different definition of good, but people doing that don’t call it that because virtue signalling is something Other People do.

Lina
Lina
20 days ago

Unless you plan to have A baby there is also ZERO biological need for a man to orgasm. Why do these idiots even argue like that? Women don’t need to orgasm? Well the female orgasm does increase the likelihood of pregnancy actually, but expecting them to know anything would me too much.

I mean these dudes are aware that being shitty in bed Leads the woman to not want to sleep with them?

Lina
Lina
20 days ago

Male orgasm also doesn’t matter if she is on birth control…. yikes these sociopaths are definitely not having sex anyway, I guess. They just fantasize too much about it, but in a horrible way. The hell is going on with men like this.