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Dunning–Kruger effect grandiosity jordan peterson misogyny red pill

Why won’t women DEBAAATE MEEEE? An aspiring Red Piller’s lament

I thought that Reddit’s Red Pillers were all about conning women into bed. But some, it seems, are more interested in debating than dating.

Alas, a good debate can be harder to arrange than a mere hookup, an aspiring Red Pill Redditor reports in a recent post on the Ask The Red Pill subreddit.

Snoopy_ESP complains that the women he meets are all very “basic,” only interested in the most superficial conversations. And when he tries to steer the conversation to what he considers more intellectually engaging subjects the women just can’t keep up with his massive brain.

If you divert [the conversation] to deeper or more complex issues (geopolitics, social changes, new world order, scarcity of resources, politics, philosophy …) they are already lost and they answer with “I don’t know” or they answer you with the simplicities that they have heard in the TV

Yes, I’m sure hearing your thoughts on such fascinating topics as “the New World Order” and “scarcity of resources” must be quite a treat.

They are so basic, you get out of commenting on a series on Netflix and they are unable to have a debate arguing against your ideas because they don’t know about anything that TV hasn’t told them

I almost feel bad for these poor ladies, denied the pleasure of a real debate with someone as notable as Snoopy_ESP just because they’re so basic and stupid.

So Snoopy_ESP has to set aside his desire to debate some random woman he’s buttonholed at a bar.

I think the smart thing to do is to give up and adapt your conversation to theirs so that there are no frictions or they feel intellectually inferior.

Such a thoughtful lad!

A commenter called urbanfoh agrees that women are a bunch of basic bitches of the intellect.

Evolutionary speaking there is no incentive for women to take risk (apart from AFBB [alpha fucks, beta bucks]). Most men will be attracted to them no matter what as long as they are not disabled, very annoying or very ugly.

Evo Psych strikes again!

Womens crab in a bucket mentality even further incentivises women to stay at the mean of the cohort. And being excluded on basis of her views is devastating for a woman while offering no benefit.

Crabs? That’s one small step away from lobsters. I’m betting this guy is a huge fan of Jordan Peterson. Just a hunch.

Men on the other hand need to prove their status in some way. Be it physically, financially, socially or intellectually. Men need to either climb a hierarchy by proving their skills or challenge the very hierarchy itself. Being average is the worst strategy for men.

Definitely a Jordan Peterson fanboy.

One manifestation of that is that womens IQ is closer to the mean while most retards and most geniusses are men. Men are more likely to deviate from the mean of intelligence, interests, acceptable views, politics, finance etc to find a way to prove ones worth to women.

Another one of the “geniusses” who frequent this subreddit offers his boldly heterodox ideas on the subject, which just happen to be exactly the same as his Red Pill brothers and which also — surprise! — bear more than a little resemblance to some of Jordan Peterson’s most famous talking points.

“[T]here’s more genetic variation and risk-taking in men across the board” writes drewcer.

No matter what they say, you can’t go against biology. And biologically, women are the selectors because they hold the key to genetic immortality. Men compete for that genetic immortality in a dominance hierarchy.

“Dominance hierarchy,” huh. Where have I heard this incredibly original idea before? Oh yeah. That last guy, who got it from Jordan Peterson. It’s almost as if these guys have no ideas of their own. Maybe, just maybe, they’re the real intellectual basic bitches.

Which is why their bell curve is more spread-out in areas like IQ, income, etc. And women tend to group around the middle.

Funny that you hear feminists complaining so much about how all the rich people are men but they fail to realize all the homeless people are men, too.

It’s not even a men’s rights issue to me. It’s just biology, and biology is unfair. The good news is we live in a time where we can understand how the game is played (as individuals, anyway – mainstream society is still oblivious) and use it to be our best selves.

Wait, you want to be your own “best self?” Mister, you’ and your pals are in the wrong place for that.

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Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

Best ST captain?

That bloke who only speaks in allegories.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
6 months ago

No ‘debate me’ thread is complete without the Captain Marvel response gif. XD

https://images.app.goo.gl/fDvAPJDivGzgSmfRA

comment image

(At least one of these has to work right.)

TVTropes of all places pointed out on one of their Star Trek pages something to keep in mind when debating whether TOS or TNG is/was the better series overall: evidently franchise creator Gene Roddenberry did not like character development of any kind on his series, which was likely a big factor on why TOS only went three seasons on its original run while TNG got 12 in before stopping. Roddenberry wasn’t as involved with the second series as he was the first.

And this seems like as good a spot to post this article as any other:

http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/columns/freshly-rememberd-kirk-drift/

It’s a look at ‘Kirk Drift’, or how Kirk got parodied as nothing but a womanizer when the TOS clearly showed him as anything but, and how that overall phenomenon might get applied to society at large over things more serious than a fun fictional character.

Something to think about. I think.

Last edited 6 months ago by Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
6 months ago

I used to think Brussels sprouts were gross, but then I had some that were actually prepared well on a bruschetta and it was pretty tasty. Not that I’m trying to talk anyone into eating something they don’t like. I’m a lifelong broccoli hater and nothing on this earth will convince me broccoli is good.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
6 months ago

Purely from my life’s perspective:

Picard is an admiral (and an admirable one, too).
Kirk is a captain, and a decent one.
Sisko is a diplomat, not a soldier.

Janeway is a commanding officer. The sort you say “Sir/Ma’am” to voluntarily.

I’d serve with any of them, though.

😛

Last edited 6 months ago by Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
6 months ago

@Redsilkphoenix
It’s been a while since I read up on the subject, and I don’t remember which of the TOS peeps’ ST memoirs it was mentioned in, but as far as I remember TOS was always under threat of cancellation when the season drew to a close, and it was twice saved by some sort of letter-writing campaigns. For third season the company wanted to cut the budget, and Roddenberry told them he’d leave if they did that. The company thought it was calling his bluff when they went ahead with the budget cuts, but he left anyway. Less of a budget and all that made the third season… it’s own thing, so the ratings sank and the third letter campaign was unsuccessful.

But even is I remember that correctly, it’s unlikely to be the full picture.

Also, trying to correct people’s ideas about TOS Kirk is not a fun chore. I can understand that people who aren’t familiar with the series don’t know any better, but I’ve ran across a couple of people who seem to regard themselves as pretty solid fans and still evidently believe that all the women in TOS fall in love with Kirk the moment they see him or some such.

@ Threp

I’d serve with any of them, though.

I’m not up on Sisko, but I’d serve any of those (and probably Lorca from Discovery‘s first season to boot) before anyone from the new movies, because those don’t even seem to have a chain of command and that’s just a disaster waiting to happen.

Last edited 6 months ago by Masse_Mysteria
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
6 months ago

@Masse_Mysteria

I suppose I should confess that I’ve not seen any of the new movies. 😀

Just never had an interest – Trek, to me, isn’t something you confine to a single tale spun over a couple hours, but a journey of weeks with people you like (or at least can tolerate). Same with Babylon 5, and the old series of BSG.

Robert
Robert
6 months ago

Dates are supposed to be chill and to find common interests, a debate is the opposite of what a date should be, it just shows how socially incompetent they are.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
6 months ago

Thank you, David,

Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
6 months ago

Thanks David. I was worried about Naglfar too.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
6 months ago

Thanks, David, that’s good to know.

Lizzie
Lizzie
6 months ago

@Redsilkphoenix, thank you for that Strange Horizons recommendation, it was very interesting!

Contrapangloss
Contrapangloss
6 months ago

Masse Mysteria,

I wonder if any of that can be attributed to a drift in visual language?

Bad attempt at ill informed show analysis incoming

In TOS, they frequently do close face shots of female crew members and aliens with a really gauzy focus and soft lighting, and vibrato violins in the score.

They’re (I think) intended to clue the viewer in to the idea that “Oh, this alien is supposed to be really pretty!” Or “Oh, this alien is supposed to be really mysterious”. Or fanservice to the assumed male audience.

Most of the time, there’s nothing really in the plot to suggest there are supposed to be any legitimate romantic feelings happening, outside the initial “Oh, that person looks nice.”

In TNG and DS9, the same sorts of shots are used a lot more sparingly and almost exclusively when either a creeper is extremely obviously being a creep about a female crewmember (Cough cough-Barclay in the holosuite-cough cough) or when the woman in question IS totally digging whoever (usually Riker, sometimes Picard, unless it’s Crusher and then it’s almost always Picard).

In Voyager, the same sort of soft gauzy lighting/focus combo is pretty much absent in the first two seasons except for a couple shots of poor Kes, who’s trapped in the awkward Doctor/Paris/Neelix/?? situation.

Folks who grew up on later trek may be primed to see those face establishing shots as a heavy handed “OMG Why is she already totally into Kirk already it’s been like 2 seconds?! WTH?!” or “Kirk Why Are You So Horny”.

When it probably wasn’t meant to be that way? I mean, it’s an old show so it does have some problems, but I don’t think that it meant to imply Kirk was always 100% deciding if he wanted to kiss every alien he ever met.

Side/note: I’ve got to admit to loving the spoiler thing, because I feel really awkward leaving giant comments that only maybe 1 other person actually wants to read.

Xennial Dot Warner
Xennial Dot Warner
6 months ago

@ Alan:

Best ST captain?

That bloke who only speaks in allegories.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra!

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
6 months ago

Why doesn’t he just go here:

https://memegenerator.net/instance/82475992/argument-clinic-is-this-the-right-room-for-an-argument

instead of annoying women who were hoping to find a decent man to date?

If projection was taken away from right-wingers, they’d have nothing to say or think.

Women are smart enough to cut their losses when they come across a loser, it’s true! It’s just that the losers don’t realize they are.

I would ask these boys:

  • with views like yours, why are you using terms from a movie written by two transwomen?
  • how do you feel about ruining your health with a terrible diet and then getting a raging tranquilizer jones because even with a Dr. and Professor title, you’re too stupid to realize they’re addictive?

I’mma say Sisko, though I’m old enough to be Kirk-positive, as he was the only Captain for so long, from my tiny-personhood to several years after I was married. So I think it’s a tie there?

Nobody’s even mentioned poor Archer, LOL. He had a doggo! (And terrible writing)

Brussels sprouts are evil and Kirk would have destroyed them.

@Policy of Madness: Yes, this is the “make an excuse and back away slowly” kind of guy.

And the X-inactivation is also the reason tortoiseshell and calico cats exist and are almost always female. They’re only male if they’re chimeras or XXY. (I recently lost a calico. 🙁 )

@Muscovy Duck: Hi! I’m pretty new here too, but the group is good people. And yes, constant debate is just exhausting.

@David: Good news on Naglfar. And I anti-recommend the cheap Lenovo, because the one I was gifted can’t hold a charge worth a damn and has a stiff keyboard.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
6 months ago

@ Contrapangloss

Ill-assorted responses follow
That is fascinating stuff, since I don’t really know anything about it. Might be interesting to look at other shows from the sixties to see if they did that too.

This makes it even more interesting when people complain about shipping Kirk and Spock, on the pretext that they wouldn’t have meant it like that back then, when any number of things people see in the series these days might not have been what was intended (not to mention that people were already shipping them in the sixties, but oh well).

Also, Captain Christopher (in Tomorrow is Yesterday) pretty much gets the dame of the hour treatment when he meets Kirk for the first time, and I think I’ve seen someone use ”it’s different because he’s a man” as a rebuttal for that, so I kind of assume there’s some wish fullfilment stuff going on too.

I’ve read some fan theorizing by people who make it seem obvious that Kirk’s actual skirt-chasing is not a constant thing since there isn’t that much left after you take out the instances of ”Kirk mating in captivity” (as someone put it) and flirting with old girlfriends and the like, plus the show also has women who do not fall in love with anyone, or go for some man besides Kirk on purpose, so. But apparently if you go into a whole list of women Kirk is not interested in, you’re suddenly obsessive or something, so it’s not like I’ve had this conversation often.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
6 months ago

@David

Oh, thanks so much for mentioning!

Patricia J Wilton
Patricia J Wilton
6 months ago

Well, those were certainly some words…

Lailette
6 months ago

It couldn’t possibly be that women are socialized to defer to men & protect the male ego, nope, it’s gotta be biology 🙄

If a woman likes him, she doesn’t want to argue & risk scaring him off. If she isn’t into him, why would she bother having an unpleasant argument? Especially when doing so could put her safety at risk? I doubt he comes across as an open minded & good faith debate partner, so there’s no incentive to engage. He might also be unintentionally selecting for women who don’t enjoy debates.

Of course, plenty of women online would love to school his ass. Not sure how they’ll explain that fact away.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
6 months ago

Thanks, David, for the update on Naglfar. I miss you, Naglfar, but I certainly understand your absence: sometimes other things need to get done.

Last edited 6 months ago by Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)