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hypergamy MGTOW misogyny

Win a date with a MGTOW!

How every date goes, according to MGTOWs

It’s fair to say that Men Going Their Own Way are somewhat critical when it comes to women’s behavior. A case in point can be found in a recent posting on the MGTOW subreddit from a guy who was evidently quite furious that a woman on a date with him asked him what he did for a living.

Because in MGTOW-land, that’s not a normal thing to ask someone on a date — it’s a declaration that all she wants from you is your money. (LOL.)

Some of the commenters offered their suggestions as to what the OP could have said back to this allegedly money hungry lady.

So I’m going to present you with a little quiz. Some of the answers below are real things that MGTOW Redditors suggested as a response. At least one of the answers is one I made up. Can you tell the real from the fake?

FUN AS HELL MGTOW DATE QUIZ

A date asks you what you do for a living. Which of the following answer(s) were suggested by MGTOW Redditors, and which were just made up?

T/F “A job that gives me money for what I do, not for who I am.”

T/F “Show me some nudes so I’ll know what I’m getting for my money.”

T/F “I don’t answer questions from women. Blanket ignore.”

T/F “I work. How much do you weigh?”

T/F “Do you spit or swallow? If we’re going to cut out the bullshit, we should do it both ways.”

T/F You should have asked her the same question to see if she said professional hoe.

T/F I’ve had people ask me that before they even knew my name! The correct response is “Goodbye”.

T/F Women are not known for their honesty and truthfulness … They will never come out with how many cocks they have ridden, so why even engage?

ANSWER KEY:

The second question is made up. The rest of the quotes are verbatim from the MGTOW subreddit.

As is this lovely piece of advice:

From then on you know that it is a business arrangement discussed. Just calculate wether it makes economic sense to rent her for a few years or not. Since she is obviously not interested in you at all, i would make it clear that this is money for (young) hole.

You would, huh? I will eat my cats if you’ve ever said that or anything close to that to a woman on a date in real life. You just wish you could.

Only one commenter (out of several dozen) noted that “what do you do for a living” is pretty standard date stuff, which makes me wonder if any of these MGTOWs (aside from this one guy) have ever been on a date with anything that’s not inflatable.

Oh, one more thing, I lied about the whole “win a date” thing. I trust that none of you are disappointed, and I hope that none of you have ever accidentally gotten stuck on a date with one of these guys..

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ginger
ginger
1 month ago

OK, I’m confused. I thought that MGTOW were, well, going their own way. Without women. So why is this guy on a date..?

MexicanHotChocolate
MexicanHotChocolate
1 month ago

That’s a pretty standard ice breaker in the United States. If he’s going to be mad about, he should be mad at American society for being materialistic, not her for asking.

Full Metal Ox
1 month ago

Off-topic: @Bookworm in hijab:

Are there any special content warnings you’d like over Ramadan? Food, perhaps?

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
1 month ago

Since she is obviously not interested in you at all, i would make it clear that this is money for (young)* hole.

You would, huh? I will eat my cats if you’ve ever said that or anything close to that to a woman on a date in real life. You just wish you could.

David, if it’s possible for me to rescind your bet, I’m gonna do it. Keep in mind that he didn’t specify that he would say this on the first date. The tenth date or the twentieth date might be the perfect time for him to mention that he’s buying, say, a burrito and a small iced tea for “(young) hole.” Or he might wait until they’re married. Or have their third child. Some abusers play a long game.

*A manospherian who uses an opening parenthesis and a closing parenthesis correctly!

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
1 month ago

YOU’RE SO BEAUTIFUL, SERENA–AND SO COLD!

Lend her that lovely, warm jacket of yours.

Contrapangloss
Contrapangloss
1 month ago

So, I don’t date on account of being ace, but I will converse with people! What I’m interested in if I ask “So, what do you do for a living?” usually is one of the following:

1) Is your job something I’d find interesting to know more about? Or something I’d rather NOT know things about?

2) What jargon can I use without without making things awkward? Do you live in a similar level of acronym soup?

3) I assume that you, like me, have no life outside of work and dog, and I’d prefer not to talk about my dog 100% of the time. Even if he is the cutest dog in the history of dogdom. Also, this conversation is so awkward and I want to escape so bad but how do people converse again anyway? WHAT DO YOU DO AT WORK? THIS IS A NORMAL QUESTION NORMAL PEOPLE ASK NORMALLY RIGHT? (please send help).

Maybe if our culture was a little more set up for people to have lives outside work, we’d have more normal conversation filler questions than the traditional work & weather?

Xennial Dot Warner
Xennial Dot Warner
1 month ago

It’s called “small talk.” It’s called “she’s feeling you out.” It’s called “maybe she wants to hear your cringey workplace tales, and wants a starting point.” It’s called “hey, you’re the one jumping to transactional conclusions—or just putting your insecurity on display—here.”

Last edited 1 month ago by Xennial Dot Warner
happy cat
happy cat
1 month ago

But… what kind of questions does he want to be asked? Wait, I don’t want to date one of those people ever so maybe I don’t need to know.

Mogwitch
Mogwitch
1 month ago

Most people spend a very significant part of their lives trying to earn money, and a lot of their adult and social interactions are at work. It’s perfectly normal to ask a question which is basically “so what do you do most days”, it’s normal small talk outside dates as well.

Manospherians seem oddly defensive about this. I’m not sure if it’s because they are more likely to be unemployed or in marginal jobs than the rest of us, in which case I can empathise with the defensive feelings but not the hostility. It sucks having no money, and I’ve always felt like a failure when I was unemployed or in a crappy job, even when I know that’s not how the world works and I don’t think that way about anyone else in the same situation.

I suspect though, these people actually earn much the same or higher than the rest of us ( most of them seem to be from white, reasonably well off families, they are all men, and less of them are teenagers than it appears ). I’m sure it’s another self injury from measuring themselves against myths of alpha males who show dominance through buying things.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 month ago

Oh no! He lied and I won’t win a date with an MGTOW! How ever will I survive?!

Chris Hall
Chris Hall
1 month ago

My hat is off to the MGTOW in the last quote and his unique way of avoiding the pitfall of getting whether or weather wrong

LollyPop
LollyPop
1 month ago

I remember I was at a party with an ex partner when I was about 23, and when I responded “I work at Tesco” (big UK supermarket, if that doesn’t translate!) to a man who asked what I do for a living, he said “uh” and then turned around and stopped talking to me. My mum said she used to get the same thing when she said she was a SAHM.

So I guess the question can be loaded, but pretty much like how any question can be loaded. It’s such a ubiquitous opener for conversation in society that it would be exhausting to find it offensive.

Nicholas Kiddle
Nicholas Kiddle
1 month ago

I’ve been too disabled to work for the past ten years so it’s not my favourite small talk question to have to field, but at least I can recognise that it is just a generic small talk question and not part of some nefarious plot.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
1 month ago

I’d love if “what do you do?” wasn’t the go to getting to know you question because most people don’t have a super interesting dream job and most of the time it doesn’t actually tell you that much about a person. It also forces people who are unemployed to share that information up front and while it shouldn’t be stigmatized to be unemployed, it is. However, imagining that everyone who asks that question has some sort of nefarious agenda is just ridiculous!

Personally, I’d much rather discuss pets, hobbies, and favorite movies/TV/books/music than jobs when getting to know someone because that tells you more about them.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 month ago

I don’t really understand the point of asking someone’s weight on a date. If they’re there, you can already see what they look like, so if you’re the kind of person to harp on people for being fat (or any other shape for that matter), you already have that information. Or is it to see if they’ll lie (since it’s so easy to tell a person’s weight at a glance)?

Regarding asking about working, I get that it can be a sore topic for a lot of people, which is why I usually only ask it if it somehow comes up and it’s more of a follow-up question (“You work in Helsinki, then?”). Then again I also feel like it gives you room to be vague without going full-on “A job that gives me money for what I do, not for who I am.” At a point where I mostly preferred not to name the company I worked for, I just said I was working at a company archive, which probably was dry enough to not bring up any more questions. Now that I think of it, I should probably come up with some sort of a strategy for my discussing current job too.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

@Masse_mysteria : a lot of people are not able to judge weight from seeing someone, but nonetheless find very very very important to know the exact figure, in order to properly judge and shame people who aren’t in the very restricted area of allowed weight for their size.

Some try to rationalize that as “but it’s for future baby sake !”, but really, it’s because they have an almost physical addiction to following the norm.

francis
francis
29 days ago

that makes me tjin of a dating guide for men that I found it told you to come up with a pretentious description for your job so bin man would become sanitation transport enginer.

.45
.45
29 days ago

This may sound a little weird, but most of my dating experience is via Tinder and I avoid asking anything about jobs until after a few days of contact (yeah, yeah, I’m slow Jug).

To my mind, I don’t know this person and don’t want them to know where to find me until I feel comfortable with them. Based on the behavior of the women I seem to connect well with, they think similar thoughts. (Not so much for the hot to trot ones who are DTF right off, but I don’t seem to connect well with them anyway.)

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
29 days ago

@ Full Metal Ox, that is so sweet of you! I’m good; no CWs needed 😄. And at the moment I am only an hour-ish away from diving headfirst into a huge amount of takeout from our local Indian restaurant…

Regarding this post, I agree that “what do you do for a living” has the potential to be awkward; classist assumptions make it kind of a minefield.

Maybe if our culture was a little more set up for people to have lives outside work, we’d have more normal conversation filler questions than the traditional work & weather?

Contrapangloss, ^^THIS^^

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
29 days ago

That’s what people of all genders ask people of other genders when they first meet.

I realize that his parents know he lives in their basement, so they don’t have to ask, and he doesn’t interact with anyone else, so he’s confused by this common, innocuous question.

Obviously he didn’t want to answer with “I live in my parents’ basement”, so he took offense.

If he’s on a date (arranged by his parents), he’s not a miggie and should be banned from that subreddit.

I guessed the first one was fake.

rabid rabbit
rabid rabbit
29 days ago

@GSS ex-noob:

Same here. #2 just seemed all too plausible, while #1 could actually seem like an interesting (and therefore non-MGTOW-produced) answer, until you realize it’s just a whiny baby answer.

bcb
bcb
29 days ago

@Ginger

OK, I’m confused. I thought that MGTOW were, well, going their own way. Without women. So why is this guy on a date..?

Me too. I thought Red Pillers were the pick-up artists who might go on dates, but MGTOWs didn’t because they were going “their own way.”

Full Metal Ox
29 days ago

An out-of-the-wild-blue-yonder opening question I recall: “What zip code do you live in? Do you own or rent?” The querent was a woman of my mother’s generation (we were visiting a mutual acquaintance in a nursing home) and a realtor (which may have primed her worldview)—but is that a normal conversational icebreaker? It had the distinct air of a social litmus test, whether or not she intended it thus.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
29 days ago

An out-of-the-wild-blue-yonder opening question I recall: “What zip code do you live in? Do you own or rent?” The querent was a woman of my mother’s generation (we were visiting a mutual acquaintance in a nursing home) and a realtor (which may have primed her worldview)—but is that a normal conversational icebreaker? It had the distinct air of a social litmus test, whether or not she intended it thus.

Where I live, the common opening small-talk question is “Where did you go to school?” meaning which high school did you attend. It is 100% a social litmus test. I ask people sometimes who have asked that question of me, “What kind of information does the answer give you?” and none of them have been able to articulate it. What high school someone attended is absolutely a social class indicator. It tells people what prejudices they should have about you and what assumptions they should make about you and your family. I imagine your acquaintances were using the answers they got in much the same way.

ginger
ginger
29 days ago

@bcb I’m relieved that I’m not the only reader who is confused about this.

.45
.45
29 days ago

@ginger

[Man’splain]
Well, you gotta remember the individual manosphere types like to mix and match from different philosophies and make up their own little worlds. The only common factors are that they view women as somehow defective or inferior, and there is no need for these imaginary worlds to match up with the real one or even be logically consistent within themselves. So, MGTOWs, Redpillers, Incels, etc, all tend to have overlapping viewpoints, and any one of them may identify as X, Y, and/or Z regardless of actual philosophy.
[/Man’splain]

ginger
ginger
29 days ago

@ .45

Ah. Thank you.

Kevin
Kevin
29 days ago

Night time, Serena was beautiful but so cold; he began to slip the chain of his crucifix from beneath his collar… sorry everyone, couldn’t resist.

Last edited 29 days ago by Kevin
Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
29 days ago

PoM,

What high school someone attended is absolutely a social class indicator.

Where I live that usually means “who are we likely to know in common”; with a couple of exceptions, our high schools all have roughly the same cross-section of class, race, etc. But I can see how in some places it would be a loaded question.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
29 days ago

@Bookworm in hijab : I might be misreading what you say, but there’s high school (college and especially lycée) for elite in France, and there is a ton of gaming the system and trick about that.

I should know. As an apparently above average intelligence white people, the system worked correctly to throw me toward them, and the % of dark skinned people dropped rather fast with years.

Compared to the USA, I suspect it’s much more about non-white not knowing the tricks (like taking russian first foreign language because the “good” lycee have a russian teacher), and the definition of “elite” seem at least somewhat larger (AKA more “white and middle class” than “white and very rich”)

(twas in the Jura, so a relatively sparsely populated region, but I don’t think it’s any less prevalent in Paris)

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
29 days ago

@ Ohlmann,

there’s high school (college and especially lycée) for elite in France, and there is a ton of gaming the system and trick about that.

I’m in a pretty rural area and our schools draw from the catchment areas of who-lives-closest. No equivalent to lycees, etc. So yes, to a certain degree where I am you can guess at social class based on which high school, but overall our population is pretty homogeneous from one end of our school board to the other. I can think of one “rich kid school” and one “considered to be fairly rough” school, but otherwise not TOO many differences.

Except in sports prowess. That rivalry is fierce.

Aaa! I’m late! Must run!

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
29 days ago

@Bookworm in hijab

I live in my state’s major metropolitan area and our school system is very diverse. We have busing, to try to make each school more diverse than it would be with neighborhood schooling, but nevertheless the variety of schools is wide. We have a Catholic private school system, magnet schools, traditional schools, and regular schools. And of the regular schools, some are “better” than others, meaning better funded, with more facilities, and more experienced teachers and a less poor student body. Our city is highly segregated, with some areas being up to 90% black, and other areas being up to 100% white. So there is a lot of social information conveyed by which high school a given person was able to attend.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
29 days ago

It’s exciting even to think about meeting and talking to someone new. I’ve only been with one new person in person in the past 12 months, and I already knew almost exactly what he did and where he worked because he works with my partner. And I had met him before once or twice. Even so, I’m sure I still asked about his particular field that’s slightly different than my partner’s. It’s probably a good thing I had an undergraduate degree in the area that they work in, because I needed one just to follow their small talk. 🙂

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
29 days ago

@nicholas

I’m sorry to hear that. The small talk question about work must be really annoying then.

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
29 days ago

@policy of madness

After talking to my husband about his school experience I’m glad I attended public school in my itty bitty town even though I hated it. He attended Catholic school and apparently nuns and priest still did put their their hands on kids. He had a pretty good memory from elementary age where he was being a little smart ass and a priest grabbed him by his hair and lead him down the hallway.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
29 days ago

@Ohlmann

a lot of people are not able to judge weight from seeing someone, but nonetheless find very very very important to know the exact figure, in order to properly judge and shame people who aren’t in the very restricted area of allowed weight for their size.

Just in case I’m missing a joke here: can anyone tell people’s weight just by looking at them? Not just the probable ballpark, but accurately? It seems like a bit of a useless skill outside of very specific circumstances.

Other than that, asking someone their BMI to know whether to fatshame or not seems legit.

Dalillama
29 days ago

@Masse_Mysteria
My husband can, he’s a tailor. It’s mostly a parlor trick, since most passersby aren’t coming to him for a bodysuit.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
28 days ago

PoM, in our region it’s more “at your high school, which language classes/maths classes/ extracurriculars did you participate in?” A school might draw from an area with both wealthy and poor populations, so knowing someone’s school itself wouldn’t give that info, but “academic” versus “regular” versus “easier” classes are (wrongly, unfairly, and often harmfully) assumed to be associated with social class.

It’s so hateful the way wealth and/or level of education (or the lack thereof) is used as a reason to sneeringly write people off.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
28 days ago

Where I grew up “Where did you go to school?” was *absolutely* a class signifier. Allowing for changing times, of course; the lily-white high school X my older brother went to was largely Black by the time I was in high school. Once after a multi-school event, one of the moms was driving several of us home, and a Black girl from X said her house was “just off ABC Street”. And we all knew what side of ABC Street she lived on. The side with cheaper houses and a less-equipped school.

Meanwhile, I went to Y, which meant mostly-white and some PoC and it was a very good school, but not so much as neighboring school Z, which signified your parents were rich to filthy rich, white, and you probably got a very nice car for your 16th birthday and went on to become today’s 1% and heaven forbid there be any apartment buildings (clutch pearls). The PoC were “the help” and didn’t live there

5-10 years after I graduated from Y, it had become majority PoC too. Z is STILL filthy rich, but a bit more Asian.

@rabid rabbit: #1 probably means it’s a very crappy job with no customer-facing portion.

@Nicholas Kindle: me too, but since I’m married I can always cop out with “I’m a housewife”. Not a very good one, mind you. 🙂

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
28 days ago

GSS ex-noob, that’s been the sense I get from schools in an area of high-population density; I wonder if that accounts for the difference? Ours draw from such big areas to get enough students; we get a variety of income levels. So your school might be in the centre of Town ABC, and draws from both the wealthy and poor sides of Town ABC as well as the surrounding countryside.

Btw, that’s just our rural school board; in our closest city (different Board) it’s definitely the same “which school you go to correlates with class, race, etc”, though I say that from hearing stories rather than personal experience.

School reform to eliminate these biases and biased funding: it is needed! No kids should be disadvantaged by their schools.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
28 days ago

@Masse_mysteria : depend on the degree of accuracy.

To take an actual example, most people are able to ballpark my weight with an accuracy of about 5kgs. But some people are very very bad at it, and tend to see me as weighting like 15 or 20 less than I do. They also often change their opinion of me immediatly.

(to give an idea, at 15 kgs less than my current weight doctors would start to get concerned)

More rarely, I have seen people concerned about me being underfeed just because they see my ribcage. Apparently it’s unusual, but not problematic, I just store fat elsewhere and isn’t terribly toned.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
28 days ago

@ Ohlmann,

But some people are very very bad at it, and tend to see me as weighting like 15 or 20 less than I do. They also often change their opinion of me immediatly.

I assume you mean when they find you’re heavier than they thought, they judge you? That’s awful! I’m sorry you have to deal with that.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
28 days ago

@ Dalilama
Oh, cool. I guess that comes from practice, then? I was mostly thinking that it could be a useful skill for people who regularly have to lift other people or some such.

@ Ohlmann
Thanks for the additional info. I’m curious because I’d have a hard time eyeballing anyone’s height, let alone weight, so this is of interest, but sorry to hear about people trying to guess your weight to judge you. That’s never happened to me, and I can’t even imagine.

That said, I also have visible ribs, and no medical person has even seemed to think it (in itself was) unusual in the least, that’s just how some people are.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
27 days ago

I’ve seen the suggestion that “how do you spend your time?” is a bit less loaded than “what do you do for a living?” since the wording allows for a reply about work OR hobbies.

I’ve come to the conclusion that most people have no idea what any weight, as described in numbers, looks like. For one thing because it can look completely different depending on height, build, muscle-to-fat ratio, how the person is dressed, etc.

Ted
Ted
26 days ago

Moon Custafer, I live in the capitalist U.S. of 2021 and know multiple people who have burnt out from school and work.
More to the point, no one should be forcing another person to walk on eggshells – indeed, eggshells that require *literal mind-reading.*