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Dunning–Kruger effect MGTOW whaaaaa?

They’ll upvote pretty much anything in the MGTOW subreddit

For example, see this post in which a MGTOW-friendly Redditor waxes rhapsodic about … his washing machine. (Or, as he accidently calls it in his headline, his “machine machine.”)

For countless millenia washing clothes required toil, hardwork and time. Women would congrugate at a stream or perhaps a well and chatter amongst themselves whilst washing their family's linen.

Now I fill up the drum, throw in the diturgent and press a button for nice clean clothes.

Technology has made an outdated mode of cleaning easier and more efficient. Days that were once spent cleaning are now spent on more productive efforts.

I don't hearken back to the days of manual washing of clothes - there's no descent into nihilism or 'black pill'. It's a good thing. Nor has it made me see the world in a different way; I've not become enlightened or taken the 'red pill'. It's just a more productive and easier way to live and spend my time.

I’ve read through this several times to see if I’m missing some important subtext but I can’t find any. If he wanted to gloat about women using technology developed by men, wouldn’t he have said something about that? Or should we classify this with MGTOW cooking posts, in which MGTOWs boast about making unimpressive dinners? Should we expect to see more MGTOW celebrations of other trivial accomplishments, like tying one’s own shoes or peeling a potato?

I give up.

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Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
6 months ago

I dunno, I’m also inclined to wax rhapsodic about my washing machine (and my dishwasher).

Do you think his post is maybe intended to indicate that he can do without women, since he can wash his clothes by himself?

Full Metal Ox
6 months ago

@Bookworm in hijab:

Do you think his post is maybe intended to indicate that he can do without women, since he can wash his clothes by himself?

That, as well as an implied abhorrence of women congrugating (sic)to chatter!—we can’t be having with that!

Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

I suppose this is vaguely relevant…

The dishwasher was invented by a lady called Josephine Cochran. She made quite a bit of money selling supplies to gold prospectors, and ended up living in a posh mansion.

She was in the habit of throwing dinner parties; but got annoyed that her servants kept chipping the crockery. So she decided to show them how to do the washing up properly; but when she tried, she kept breaking things too. So she said “Bugger this; I’m going to invent a machine to do it” (I’m only slightly paraphrasing there).

When her alcoholic husband died leaving piles of debt; she patented the machine to get some cash.

Her company is now owned by Whirlpool.

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
6 months ago

I feel like everyone, even when married should do their own laundry cause we all have our won ways we like our clothes clean. I’d be actually really upset with my husband if he tried to wash any of my dresses or leggings.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
6 months ago

Next, he brags he’s able to microwave a frozen dinner all by himself! And then he boasts that he can button his shirt up just like a big boy!

Chris Oakley
Chris Oakley
6 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

The dishwasher was invented by a lady called Josephine Cochran.

She wasn’t the only inventor in her family….her brother Zefram created warp drive.

Trying
Trying
6 months ago

Easily the best post I’ve ever seen a mgtow make. No racism, homophobia, transphobia and only a little sexism (maybe).

Robert Haynie
Robert Haynie
6 months ago

I don’t think there is any subtext.
I think it’s just this guy who likes his washing machine, even if he doesn’t know the proper name for it.
It’s a bit of a shock, I know, but t’would seem not all posts in the MGTOW arena have to be virulently misogynistic. This time it’s just a guy who can operate a washing machine, and feels justly (?) proud of it. (Lord knows there’s a crapload of guys who apparently can’t.)
I suppose the concept that most women are going to be okay with that hasn’t really crossed his mind yet…

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 months ago

I think his point is that, as a self-sufficient MGTOW, he doesn’t need to rely on anybody else (specifically, groups of chattering women) to get his chores done. I mean, ignoring the fact that Other People invented and manufactured his washing machine, Other People manufacture, deliver, stock, and sell him his detergent, Other People make the fabric and assemble his clothes and ship them, and he’ll need Other People to service his machine should it break. And some of those Other People are undoubtedly women.

Regardless, it’s certainly a 180 from the usual “we should all live like the cavemen did” posts.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

I don’t understand. I’m just going to assume he accidentally posted in the mgtow subreddit when he meant to post in the “I love my appliances” subreddit.

Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

@ mish

There’s probably someone at Hotpoint customer services reading an email and going “Eh, do we even sell ‘cock carousels’?”

TB Tabby
TB Tabby
6 months ago

I felt like this the first time I realized I could simply go to Walgreen’s to buy the things I needed instead of hoping my father had time to go to the store. Instead of sitting around waiting, I could just get it. It changed my life.

Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

@ t b tabby

instead of hoping my father had time to go to the store

To tie this thread into the art one on the other page, Artemisia Gentileschi was the first woman to be admitted to the Florentine Academy of Fine Arts.

The practical upshot of that was, she was then allowed to buy her own art supplies rather than having to get her dad to buy them for her.

moregeekthan
moregeekthan
6 months ago

I think their is a possibility this post may have been made by a veritable unicorn: the one MGTOW who is actually a man going his own way. And to happens to have used all the time and resources he has freed up to become an appliance enthusiast. If so, he will likely eventually catch on that no one else on the subreddit has, in fact, gone his own way; and will follow Mish’s advice and decamp for a proper “I love my appliances” subreddit.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
6 months ago

Well, it’s no Daz commercial, but the guy really does like his laundry.

And … that’s kinda neat, really. There is a quiet satisfaction in getting the basic chores out of the way efficiently, and if he wants to pause a moment and give credit to the tool as makes that happen, good for him!

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 months ago

I think the subtext of this post is that this MGTOW has unlocked the “Laundry Is No Object” achievement on Steam, and wants to express that he doesn’t need a woman to do his laundry for him. He does this with only a minimum of misogyny!

But never fear, the other MGTOWs have filled that gap for him:

All inventions geared toward household convenience were either made by a husband sick of the wifes bitching, or a man trying to impress a woman by making her life easier.

I guess “wanted to make a buck” isn’t a real motive, and “women who invent stuff to make their own lives easier” don’t exist.

There’s a second comment thread on the post, that somehow manages to drag sexbots into the conversation, while mocking both consent and slavery, in three little comments. So lest you thought MGTOWs were making advances toward the ultimate goal of not letting women live rent-free in their heads, never fear, it isn’t happening.

ObSidJag
ObSidJag
6 months ago

@ Alan Robertshaw:
“‘There’s probably someone at Hotpoint customer services reading an email and going “Eh, do we even sell ‘cock carousels’?”

While a coworker asks, “And if we do, how do I get one, and what kind of service warranty do I need to get?”

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
6 months ago

@ GSS ex-noob

And then he boasts that he can button his shirt up just like a big boy!

Credit where it’s due: buttoning shirts is hard.

I assume it’s one of those routine things you just kind of do on autopilot, so I have no idea why I frequently skip buttons altogether. Not to mention that even though I started buttoning the top button on my shirts like a year ago, I haven’t been able to update the routine and still start buttoning from the second button, and have to go back to do the top one.

Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

@ masse mysteria

buttoning shirts is hard.

I sometimes wear shirts with detachable collars. So they’re fastened with collar studs. And if you think buttons are hard! 😀

Full Metal Ox
6 months ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants:
 
I mean, ignoring the fact that Other People invented and manufactured his washing machine, Other People manufacture, deliver, stock, and sell him his detergent, Other People make the fabric and assemble his clothes and ship them, and he’ll need Other People to service his machine should it break. And some of those Other People are undoubtedly women.

You’d think that the pandemic’s revelation of the fragility of the supply chain have underscored the interconnectedness of humanity by now.

@ Alan Robertshaw:

“‘There’s probably someone at Hotpoint customer services reading an email and going “Eh, do we even sell ‘cock carousels’?”

@ObSidJag:

While a coworker asks, “And if we do, how do I get one, and what kind of service warranty do I need to get?

As of 2015, one could be found at Balboa Park in San Diego, California.

(@Alan: Warning for where they got the tails for their horses:)

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2015/feb/03/balboa-park-carousel-history-predates-1915-expo/

Assembling a Cock Carousel from vintage carousel roosters could have the potential to be a good consuming geekish hobby, with the opportunity to learn vintage machine history and maintenance and accrue useful life skills thereby.

Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

@ full metal ox

Warning for where they got the tails for their horses

Aww, bless you for that; that is so sweet and considerate!

‘Historical’ stuff like that doesn’t really affect me I must confess. The past is past as it were. It’s just stuff in the present that gets to me. Having a nice row with the racing fraternity about the Grand National!

But that was actually very interesting. There’s a fairground museum that I’ve driven past loads of times that I really want to see; but I can never find it! I’m beginning to think maybe it’s just hoax signs like we were talking about before.

Fun fact though, English merry-go-rounds are the only ones to go anti clockwise!

(Or is it clockwise? Well, the other way to everyone else anyway)

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
6 months ago

I just tossed a load of king-size sheets into my washer. Way more convenient than going down to the river and banging them on rocks. I’m going to make my husband hang them out on the line, though, because he’s got longer arms.

@Masse_Mysteria: no kidding. I’ve been buttoning my own shirts upwards of 50 years now and I STILL get it wrong semi-regularly. Especially when the bottom button has fallen off and I haven’t put it back on. Starting from the bottom is the only hope I have of getting them straight. Being at home this past year has at least maximized my use of t-shirts and sweatshirts. Which I sometimes put on backwards.

@Chris Oakley: rimshot.

Re: the sale of cock carousels, if you don’t want to go full fairground attraction, I suppose you could get a giant lazy susan and some dildos?

Hexum7
Hexum7
6 months ago

I’m trying to make any sense of this, I’ve constructed a scenario in my head wherein a shy hapless 30-something bachelor living with his parents, has just been told by his retired ma and pa that they are no committed to doing his laundry any longer. Diss smally facing the maw of the mysterious metal beast that his parents kept in the cellar,he had no alternative but to wax nerdishly (always helps me to disconnect from boredom) on the not exactly complex button pushing chore at hand

Otherwise, unless he’s well over 90 years old when the first automatic electric washing machines were invented (I looked it up) I can’t figure how he entertained the notion that his perspective on life might have been changed by confronting Mister Machine M. Machine.

Full Metal Ox
6 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

Fun fact though, English merry-go-rounds are the only ones to go anti clockwise!
(Or is it clockwise? Well, the other way to everyone else anyway)

Every merry-go-round I’ve ever seen here in Yankistan has gone left-to-right from the standpoint of an onlooker and counterclockwise from the perspective of a rider; you’re the only guys not going widdershins.

Note also that a Pussy Carousel is a conceivable option for interested parties:

http://enchanted-tails.com/carouselcatsfrontsm.JPG
http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/images/amusement/301/m004%5Ecarousel_from_roland_summit.jpg

Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

@ full metal ox

 you’re the only guys not going widdershins.

Ah well “Turn thrice widdershins” is bad luck; so we’re just taking sensible precautions. 😉

The Witches’ Reel:

Cummer, go ye before, cummer go ye

If ye willna go before, cummer, let me

Ring-a-ring-a-widdershins

Linkin lithely widdershins

Cummer, carlin, crone and queen

Roun go we

 

Cummer, go ye before, cummer, go ye

If ye willna go before, cummer, let me

Ring-a-ring-a-widdershins

Loupin lightly widdershins

Kilted coats and fleein hair

Three times three

 

Cummer go ye before, cummer, go ye

If ye willna go before, cummer, let me

Ring-a-ring-a-widdershins

Whirlin skirlin widdershins

De’il tak the hindmost

Wha e’er she be

Seth S
Seth S
6 months ago

hm. I kind of wonder if this particular fellow has some kind of neurodivergence that has given him this singularly odd but generally harmless… interest. I have a feeling that MGTOW subreddits do tend to attract men who feel they don’t belong or wouldn’t be accepted by a neurotypical partner and might thus feel forced to “go their own way”, and I know a lot of neurodivergent men seem to feel very othered. The majority of them are just better able to cope constructively with those feelings of othering and loneliness than to join a forum dedicated to hating women…. but, clearly, at least this guy has a solid and constructive hobby, so I’m not gonna hate on him for that.

The reason I say, is that by some odd coincidence or quirk or perhaps a logic that I don’t understand, my 7yo daughter with down syndrome also calls ours the machine machine. There’s just different emphasis on syllables in the two words, “MAH-sheen mah-sheen”. I have no idea why she calls it that, if it has to do with her mildly impaired hearing (and refusal to use her hearing aids) or what.

Last edited 6 months ago by Seth S
Full Metal Ox
6 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

I first encountered the Witches’ Reel at the age of thirteen—however suspiciously apropos that figure might sound—in the form of this dramatic recitation by Vincent Price:

Pip
Pip
6 months ago

… maybe I am missing something here, but I really don’t get posts on WHTM like this one? Isn’t this site here for pointing out, criticizing, and mocking toxic masculinity? What’s toxic about saying “I am glad I have a washing machine”? Isn’t the regular joke to rag on MGTOW dudes for never actually doing anything but whining about women? Why are we sitting here trying to belittle a dude for starting a conversation that isn’t about belittling women?

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
6 months ago

@ Alan

detachable collars

Well that seems like a whole other hassle. Reminds me of how I as a child was sometimes annoyed when a couple was getting ready for a fancy party and the man needed his wife’s help with his cuffs, which I assumed just meant that he was a klutz or something. It was only later that I learned that cuffs might not have buttons and that cufflinks are probably cumbersome (at least if you don’t wear them all the time and so aren’t used to them).

@ GSS ex-noob
Buttoning from the bottom up seems like a good idea! I might try it if my only available option wasn’t to start with the second button from the top.

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
6 months ago

@masse mysteria

I think that comes with the idea if you need someone to something basic for you as an adult it means your incompetent. Which really sucks for disabled people. A lot of the times I need my husband to do buttons for me or even tie my shoes because my fingers don’t move in the way they need to do these task anymore. Doesn’t mean that I don’t know how to. Just that I’m losing the ability to.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
6 months ago

@ Elaine
Point taken. I hadn’t thought of that. Though perhaps on the occasions I was thinking of, it’s also a dash of that wife-as-mother stuff, where a woman offers her husband the same care she offers for her children.

Also, my childish “I never have problems with my cuffs!” was completely unwarranted in any case, seeing as my shirts only rarely had cuffs, those cuffs always had buttons, and I think it’s already been estalished that I’m just not a champion at buttons.

Alan Robertshaw
6 months ago

@ mass mysteria

Well that seems like a whole other hassle

They are worth it. We have to wear different collars in court to outside; so being able to swap them means you only need one shirt. And then if you’re out in the pub later you can just not have a collar at all. Also if you have to stay away for a few days you can take spare collars and avoid laundry.

cufflinks are probably cumbersome 

Oh yeah, especially as the shirts are double cuffed. So you have to try to get them through 4 layers of material. Handy though if you ever need to demonstrate how a wormhole works.

Last edited 6 months ago by Alan Robertshaw
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
6 months ago

You’ll take my cufflinks when you pry them from my cold, neatly starched shirt!

Love those things – best ones are my Edwardian ones with chain connecting the two plates instead of a pin or T bar. Easy as doing up a button, those.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
6 months ago

I have a feeling that MGTOW subreddits do tend to attract men who feel they don’t belong or wouldn’t be accepted by a neurotypical partner and might thus feel forced to “go their own way”

I’ve seen no evidence of this. MGTOWs seem to be MGTOWs because they have bought into the idea that women are evil. Hence the obsession with women: it’s their belief that women are evil that defines them, and giving up the obsession would mean the loss of some definition of themselves.

Some of them appear to have had bad experiences with women; others have not, but the notion is still there. They’re still attracted to women, presuming that they were attracted to women to start, but feel like the evils of women will just bring them down and their attraction is, itself, a sign of women’s manipulative evil.

It’s just bog-standard male supremacy, and trying to armchair diagnose MGTOWs with neurodivergence to explain them is unwarranted.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
6 months ago

@Masse_Mysteria: My mom taught me the “start from the bottom” trick when I was a young’un and completely unable to button correctly. You can SEE the bottom few buttons and button holes, which means you have a better chance of getting halfway up correctly.

@Alan: It’s been a while since I was on a carousel, but I think I remember it goes around more than 3 but less than 9 times, so it’s safe.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
6 months ago

@ Alan
Interesting stuff about detachable collars. I was vaguely aware of them before, ut they make more sense now (not just in an old-timey sense).

Incidentally, I kind of wanted to make this the year when I’d actually find a dress shirt that fits me, but I’ll probably need to wait out the pandemic. On the plus side, the pandemic is likely to mean no shenanigans requiring dressing up, so there’s that.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
6 months ago

Regarding shirt buttoning, wasn’t there a scene in Cheaper By the Dozen on that? The original, based on the actual life of Frank Gilbreth, not the later remake. Gilbreth was a workplace efficiency expert, one of the first ‘time and motion men’, and there’s a scene in the movie where he has his wife time him buttoning his shirt from bottom to top and top to bottom to see which one is faster. (Top to bottom, because you can let gravity do a bit of the work for you on moving your hands.)