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empathy deficit femoids incels misogyny rape

Incel: “Worrying about rape is the real privilege”

Incels are so convinced that they suffer more than anyone else in history ever, that I guess I shouldn’t be shocked that some of them actually profess to being envious of rape survivors – because at least someone was sexually attracted to them.

Take, for example, a commenter called BrettyBoy who recently posted a thread on Incels.is with the distressing title “worrying about rape is the real privilege.”

“Like the topic title says,” he begins,

if you have to worry about being raped by the gender you find attractive, you’re privileged because while I don’t support rape, if you have people of the gender you find attractive lusting after you, it is a privilege and to avoid the rape you can just stay indoors anyway so no, I’m not privileged compared to normal fags like they like to imply, I get treated like a damn baby in real life because of being autistic and on top of that, I’m sexually frustrated so all them feminists claiming ‘male privilege’ can easily fucking avoid rape by staying indoors, not hard to do, indoors activities are pretty nice anyway.

So all the women of the world should remain at home at all times? Not only is that, you know, absurd, but indoors can be as dangerous at outdoors, given that the overwhelming majority of rape victims know their attackers.

Still, as an “undesired autistic [male] that just deal[s] with constant bullshit in this misandrist, autistic male hating society,” he’s convinced that he’s won the oppression Olympics.

I have a bunch of personal problems which normal fags aren’t entitled to any details about but it’s more than about my dry dick but when you suffer from personal problems, even a slight inconvenience is harmful to your health because you’re getting kicked when you’re already down.

Dude, I’m sure your life is no picnic, but literally everyone in the world suffers from personal problems. If you want people to have empathy for you, you really need to show some towards others.

At least I’m not the loser killing myself like normal fags do all because of lockdown, normal fags even have break downs over lockdown which just comes to show how privileged they really are …

For waht it’s worth, it’s a myth that suicide rates have increased during the lockdown.

if we’re gonna play the game of mocking, I can do it better, watch me.

‘Oh, lockdown, so depressed, time to kill myself. No point in actually trying to enjoy any indoor stuff, it’s the end of the world’.

‘Haven’t had local casual sex in 2 days, I’m so depressed’.

‘Haven’t seen my local girlfriend/boyfriend for two hours, no one knows the struggle’.

How did we get from rape fears to this sad attempt at mockery? I’m not sure, but others in the thread were taken by his initial thesis on rape and how it’s not such a bad thing.

“[I]magine getting raped by a stacy,” wrote one commeter wistfully, following the comment with a row of emojis that wordpress doesn’t support.

Another commenter directed his ire at women who try to make men feel bad about the whole rape thing.

Foids complain about their risk of getting raped because they love making men feel bad. Meanwhile, we’re at equal risk of getting raped by faggots but we’re not allowed to complain about it.

That last bit’s not actually true, even if you include prison rape in your numbers.

Another commenter picks up this theme, suggesting that homosexual rape is somehow much worse than the heterosexual variety.

Those privileged whores don’t even have to worry about homosexual rape, like what some men face in prison, those whores cry about the small possibility of HETEROSEXUAL rape.

You know, this is just too stupid for me to even waste time formulating a response. Get over yourselves. dudes.

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Lizzie
Lizzie
1 month ago

How contemptible these people are.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
1 month ago

Although they say that being raped by a someone from a gender you’re not attracted to is awful, but being raped by someone from a gender you are attracted to is NBD, you just know these asshats are for the corrective rape of lesbians.

Mexican Hot Chocolate
Mexican Hot Chocolate
1 month ago

One of my nephews is autistic. And when I was a tutor in college, I worked with a few autistic students. I’m on the edge of rage that this joker weaponized his autism in his little screed.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 month ago

I’m on the edge of rage that this joker weaponized his autism in his little screed.

That little tidbit jumped out for me, too (alongside the massive amount of other awfulness). As we’ve observed on WHTM many times, way to chuck people under the bus.

My daughter has several autistic friends in her class and all of them are a) Vastly different and unique, and b) Lovely people.

What a nasty little rape-apologist loser.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 month ago

Of course incels don’t understand rape is about violence, not sex.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 month ago

GSS ex-noob,

Of course incels don’t understand rape is about violence, not sex.

^^THIS^^

I would say that this not-understanding is (at least somewhat) deliberate. I think it’s convenient for them, for their ideology, to pretend that every interaction ultimately boils down to one’s ranking on some mythical hotness scale. I think believing/claiming to believe this lets them shift the goalposts on themselves ; that it’s a way of rationalizing and explaining why all their get-a-girl strategies fail miserably. (As we saw in a previous article here, that one saying that incels will always be incels even if they get a girlfriend.)

Rape is about violence and about power; about using violence in order to control and dominate. Incels are obsessed with power: how to get it, how to use it, how to take it away from others. I don’t believe their ideology is about sex/attractiveness any more than I believe rape is about sex/attractiveness. It’s about having power.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

Well, I am privileged in that it’s something I don’t fear most of the time, since I’ve been lucky to avoid people who are abusive that way.

But I’d rather not have to worry about it at all.

Also, this is particularly wrong, because it implies that women can’t rape other women:

Those privileged wh*res don’t even have to worry about homosexual rape

(Unless you take “homosexual” in this context to just refer to men, which hasn’t how the word’s been used for decades, but anyway.)

epitome of incomrepehensibility

Oh, maybe OT, but I was just thinking about this.

It’s nothing compared to rape or other serious physical or sexual violence, it’s just an example of how unwanted attention is, well, unwanted.

If BrettyBoy is going to pull neuroatypicality as a “boo hoo poor me” deal, well, here’s an example of the combo of ADHD + “flattering” attention being a pain: people friending me on Facebook only to flirt with me (this happened twice in the past year). It bugs me because it sends my mind into a spiral of “what do I do??”

1) If I’m direct and say, “If you’re hitting on me, I’m not interested, I’m already in a relationship,” I’m afraid someone could get all “Nice Guy” and be “Ha ha, imagine you thinking that, you ugly [insert misogynistic insult of choice]!”

2) If I just “unfriend” them, I’ll worry that I’m being mean. And then berate myself for accepting an invite from someone I didn’t know in the first place.

So, thus far I’ve just gone with option 3: say vague things and then ignore them if they try to message me again.

At this rate, I’m glad I’m not super hot. Not joking! Fielding lots of advances like this would be exhausting.

.45
.45
1 month ago

You know, I find it sad that this kind of thing is so par for the course here that the derogatory use of “fags” left and right in his little rant didn’t even seem to be worth commenting on…

Full Metal Ox
1 month ago

@Bookworm in hijab:

(As we saw in a previous article here, that one saying that incels will always be incels even if they get a girlfriend.)

That one’s simple, however illogical: incel has become their identity, and once something has been installed in identity—no matter how damaging or demonstrably untrue—any challenge to it is going to be received as an attack.

Besides, an actual flesh-and-blood girlfriend would inevitably fall short of the simultaneous Blessed Virgin (except for you!) HB10 Stacy, dispenser of sammiches, therapy, 24/7/366 undivided attention, and Magical Validating Sex. Oh, and it doesn’t count unless you started enjoying her favors in high school, when the universe owed them to you.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
1 month ago

@Full Metal Ox

Besides, an actual flesh-and-blood girlfriend would inevitably fall short of the simultaneous Blessed Virgin (except for you!) HB10 Stacy, dispenser of sammiches, therapy, 24/7/366 undivided attention, and Magical Validating Sex.

HB10 Stacey had also better dispense a No-Problems Life and a Lucrative Job That Entails No Work At All.

If she doesn’t, I’m gonna have to quote Oda Mae in Ghost about this type of situation: You in danger, girl.

Snowberry
Snowberry
1 month ago

weirwoodtreehugger:

you just know these asshats are for the corrective rape of lesbians.

Given that, for at least some of them anyway, lesbians aren’t real – they’re either ugly girls who can’t land a Chad, or attention wh*res who are trying to attract the attention of a Chad with the promise of a threesome – I’m not so sure about that. I mean, sure, I could easily see a pro-corrective-rape attitude which sometimes targets specific women who happen to be lesbians, but because they won’t have sex with incels, not specifically because they’re into women.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

I smell a self-proclaimed autiste who probably think it’s just a convenient label to have.

@WWTH : of course since only men are heterosexual don’t you know ? That strange belief is actually pretty common, and show up at the end with the guy who say that females are not at risk of prison rape. (AFAIK they are, and not just from the jailers)

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
1 month ago

Being autistic is no excuse for being an arsehole. Life is sometimes crap for autistic people, because capitalism means anyone who isn’t able to pretend they’re a robot (hey, neurotypicals, how do you do that?) is left out of the class of ‘human’. But if you’re a a white male autistic person, you’re going to get diagnosed earlier, supported at school earlier and are less likely to end up in prison or misdiagnosed. Lots of autistic people have ‘personal problems’ and health issues. I’ve yet to meet one who thinks rape is fine and a privilege. I say this as an autistic person who has many friends and colleagues who are autistic and literally work for an organisation to help autistic adults. If one of my peeps said anything like that, they’d be getting a lecture and dragon flame scars.

mcbender
1 month ago

On the one hand, wishing rape or sexual assault on people is awful… on the other hand, part of me really hopes it happens to the people who say this so they can learn how wrong they are.

I know I’ve discussed it at least once here; I’m AMAB and have been sexually assaulted by a woman in the past (and would have called myself a heterosexual man when it happened; I’m neither, but I didn’t know that then). It took me years before I even recognised it for what it was; I used to tell it to male friends as a “funny story”. (Not all or even most sexual assaults are committed out of attraction, but that was at least what she claimed, as she was refusing to believe my requests to stop touching me. So what happened to me even fits the narrower definition this incel is talking about; always nice to be able to prove someone wrong, I guess?)

Also, “stay indoors”? I was indoors when it happened (in a pub, sure, but that’s not outdoors!). Most rapes and sexual assaults occur indoors. Where does this moron think they happen, out in the woods?

The very rhetoric these people use, framing this sort of thing as something a person might enjoy, or denying that it’s possible to sexually assault someone who has a penis, makes it even worse for the people it happens to. We second-guess ourselves, we come up with alternate explanations, we repress and sublimate the feelings. And if we do try to open up about it, half the time people congratulate us and say they wish it happened to them. Anyone who says that can go fuck themself.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

@mcbender : quite litteraly, they thinks rape is a black (or indian or any outgroup) man who suddenly choose a random individual in the street and forcefully make sex with her. Else it’s consensual ; and if the victim is a woman and isn’t white, properly dressed, with bruises, she was asking for it anyway.

I wish I was exagerating to make a point.

rabid rabbit
rabid rabbit
1 month ago

CW: discussion of rape typologies

@Bookworm in hijab:

Rape is about violence and about power; about using violence in order to control and dominate. Incels are obsessed with power: how to get it, how to use it, how to take it away from others. I don’t believe their ideology is about sex/attractiveness any more than I believe rape is about sex/attractiveness. It’s about having power.

The one thing that gives me some hope (a very little some) that these guys haven’t actually moved on to actually raping anyone is the extent to which they don’t grasp this. Of course, you’re right about how refusing to grasp it allows them to shift the goalposts on themselves, but it also means that while they’re just talking about it, they can still tell themselves it’s about sex.

I mean, a normal person — or, well, there are enough assholes out there that maybe assholedom is normal, so let’s stay a decent person — spots someone they find attractive and thinks thusly (depending on context and personality): That person is attractive to me. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were mutual. I should approach them/find out their name from a friend and whether they’re single/flirt with them/stare at them wistfully for a few seconds because I know I’ll never have the guts to approach them/run away in fear/etc. These people, on the other hand, think That woman’s hot; she should immediately jump my bones, immediately making it her fault if she’s not interested. At that point, if they act on their desire despite her lack of interest, it’s no longer about she’s hot (or she’s not hot so she should be grateful I’m interested) but about how dare she say no. We all know that, but I don’t know how many of them realize it, especially if they’ve never acted on it themselves. Never having had to actually deal with resistance, they can keep telling themselves it’s all about the sex, and might even believe it. (I’ve never looked into the research on this, but I can’t help but suspect that a number of first-time sexual offenders honestly believe that it was about sex, and only get turned on by the power as a consequence/during the act. But I could be wrong there.)

It never struck me before, but it occurs to me that one of the signs of just how toxic the incel movement is is that if you took them at their self-evaluation — awkward, feeling rejected, feeling inadequate, poor social skills, etc. — you’d expect them to become power-reassurance rapists (the “gentleman rapist” who uses as little violence as possible and convinces himself there’s a relationship with his victim, even that she’s enjoying herself), but the ideology pushes them towards anger-retaliation or even sadistic rape.

Not that I’m trying to suggest that any kind of rapist is forgivable, but it’s not the greatest advertisement for inceldom that you could sum up its effects as “We take wannabe rapists and turn them into even worse wannabe rapists!!!”

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
1 month ago

I don’t mean to be dismissive of anyone sexual asualt experience. But these people just do not understand that penetration hurts. It hurts so much to be penetrate when you don’t want to be. real physical pain that tears you up inside and makes you bleed and leaves you sore for weeks afterwards.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
1 month ago

I am super reluctant to use a blanket statement like “rape is about power” because not every rape is the same. I dont want someone to come here and think, “well my partner was horny and didn’t accept my no but it wasn’t about power for them so I must not have been raped.” That’s an unhelpful formulation. There are many ways that rape occurs and every rape is a violation even if it was a romantic partner who is otherwise kind and loving but just not listening to no.

rabid rabbit
rabid rabbit
1 month ago

@PoM:

True, but on the other hand, not listening to “no” is implictly saying “My ‘yes’ is more important than your ‘no,’ ” which is by definition a power thing. It’s an overly broad blanket statement because it’s not always obvious, but boiled down to essentials that is what happens.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
1 month ago

@rabid rabbit

Rape is ultimately an exercise of power on the sense that it requires a certain degree of power to pull off. But exercising power is not the sole possible motivation. It certainly is the motivation sometimes, maybe even for a plurality of rapes. But I am reluctant to make a blanket statement that may exclude from the definition some instances of sex without consent based on a different motive.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 month ago

PoM, I think you have a really good point, and I would never want seem to invalidate anyone’s experience. I’m sorry that it came across that way! I think Rabid Rabbit’s way of putting it

not listening to “no” is implictly saying “My ‘yes’ is more important than your ‘no,’ ” which is by definition a power thing.

is a better way of saying what I was trying to express. I think it’s about “power” in terms of whose right to bodily autonomy is going to be respected, and whose isn’t, whether or not literal force is involved. I’m sorry if my way of phasing it hurt you, or anyone.

On a personal note (I don’t at all mean this to contradict PoM’s point though) I’ve never been raped but I’ve been threatened and harassed by people who used overtly sexual language to intimidate me. I know for a cold hard fact that they weren’t checking out my sexy body, unless it was my hands or something. I felt, in those instances at least, that the sexually explicit stuff was meant to “remind me of my place” and to assert, in the crudest terms possible, their rights, as men, over my body and my movement through public space.

Krasnaya Koshka
Krasnaya Koshka
1 month ago

Maybe I’ve only

Krasnaya Koshka
Krasnaya Koshka
1 month ago

Maybe I’ve only taught extremely autistic students, but they’d never come up with stuff like this. They have a hard time figuring out conversations with their family, let alone contemplating denigrating women.

GSS ex-noob:

Of course incels don’t understand rape is about violence, not sex.

As Bookworm in hijab has already said, Exactly.

Ninja Socialist
Ninja Socialist
1 month ago

Is homosexual rape somehow worse? Honestly, these guys are the biggest bunch of whiners. When women complain about rape we aren’t attacking ALL men, just those who rape. The dudes who have to rush in and screech “Not all men” must have very guilty consciences.

Ninja Socialist
Ninja Socialist
1 month ago

Forcing women tp stay indoors, wear baggy clothing and go out with escorts puts all the blame for rape on women.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@Elaine & @mcbender, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to minimize actual sexual assault by ranting about irrelevant stuff. It’s been bothering me since yesterday that I might have come across that way. You both are great and didn’t deserve to have that kind of awful shit happen to you (no one does).

@Krasnaya Koshka, experiences of autism can vary widely. I don’t want to talk for autistic people because I’m not one myself, but I didn’t know my younger cousin was autistic until she told me. In any case, I agree that using autism as an excuse for misogyny is all kinds of wrong.

Last edited 1 month ago by epitome of incomrepehensibility
personalpest
personalpest
1 month ago

As another autistic person, I’d like to thank all the posters who made supportive comments about the morality of autistic people, especially North Sea Sparkly Dragon. BrettyBoy is using his condition as an excuse for being a bigoted asshole with a poor moral compass. The last thing the autistic community needs is for this lowlife to make himself our self-appointed representative.

mcbender
1 month ago

@epitome
Thank you for including me in that, I think? For what it’s worth I don’t feel it’s my place to judge what you said, and I had been worrying that I myself was contributing to the minimisation Elaine was talking about (which I want to acknowledge and address).

What happened to me was fairly minor in all honesty, especially in comparison to what a lot of women and people perceived as women go through, and the point I was trying to make was that even a mild sexual assault can really mess a person up.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
1 month ago

@ Ninja Socialist,

Forcing women tp stay indoors, wear baggy clothing and go out with escorts puts all the blame for rape on women.

It absolutely is victim-blaming bs, yes. Plus, it doesn’t work even according to its own twisted logic, given that most rape isn’t by strangers but by people the victim knows or lives with. Possibly by those very same “escorts” who are supposed to be protecting us when we go out. And baggy clothes certainly didn’t act as deterrents to the men who harassed me. So…nope, fail on the whole “ladies*, here’s how to not get raped” thing.

*obviously not only women can be raped or sexually assaulted, but we know that that’s who these backwards advice things are always aimed at.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@mcbender – Yes, it was that I was afraid I was taking up other people’s space by worrying about something only tangentially related.

It’s something I find interesting (and I kind of dislike/am baffled by Facebook…like, I just don’t get how it works half the time) but I was afraid that by being off topic, I was potentially minimizing more serious things.

Anyway, CW for this, but I did have a colleague once who bragged about touching this guy in a sexual way when he was much drunker than she was. I think my thought at the time (I was 19) was “Hm, people are silly when drunk,” but looking back on it, I realize how predatory this was. So it is worth pointing out how people can be sexually assaulted by women too.

Assorted misogynists seem (or rather pretend) to think that feminists want to be able to get away with all sorts of abusive behaviour. Probably projection on their part. 🙁

Acid Kritana
3 days ago

Ok, this is just ridiculous.

I support not calling men incels as an offense, but people like this I do not support in any way.

I’m gay, so seriously, don’t know why he keeps saying things like “f*gs.” Kind of offensive.
Also, as for the r*pe thing, I’ve had AT LEAST 3 instances of se.xual violence perpetrated against me.

The first time, I was touched inappropiately by a male, but what was worse was that I was literally called a “r*pist” by a male feminist who then said, “Men who claim are suspiscious.”

The second time, a girl tried to make me have s*x with her. When she asked, I said no, she still pressed. I said no and that I was gay, and she still pressed and even said, “I can turn you.” She kept going on so much that I had to report and block her.

The third time, a 42 year old woman came to me online and asked me what my age was. When I said 17 she said “Good.” She wanted to pay me money to date me (despite knowing I’m gay). I also blocked her. (Turns out that she also harassed another 17 year old gay boy with the same thing.)

Guess I have privilege because of it?

(Wow, can’t believe I’m actually basically agreeing with you David Futrelle on something.)