Categories
mass shooting misogyny racism

Check out my piece in the Washington Post on the Atlanta spa killings

Check out my piece on the Atlanta spa shooter in the Washington Post.

As an explanation for mass murder, it’s a head-scratcher. According to police, after being arrested, Robert Aaron Long told them he carried out shootings at three spas in the Atlanta area on Tuesday because he’d been feeling overwhelmed by his own sexual desires. “He apparently has … what he considers a sex addiction,” a sheriff’s department official said, and viewed the spas he targeted as “a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate.” Long has been charged with the murder of eight people, six of them women of Asian descent.

Long evidently wants us to believe that he is the real victim here, a perpetually frustrated man with a “sex addiction” who could not help but lash out at the women he blames for his problems. As bizarre as this reasoning is, Long isn’t alone in embracing it. It’s a logic I often see among the misogynists I’ve been tracking on my blog, WeHuntedTheMammoth.com, for more than a decade.

Warren Farrell makes an appearance, along with The Thinking Housewife (remember her?).

Follow me on Twitter.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

We Hunted the Mammoth relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

106 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
7 months ago

I got my first covid shot

.45
.45
7 months ago

@Elaine

Congratz. Try not to dislocate anything celebrating.

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
7 months ago

@ .45

You have no idea fella. I tried to ride my husband the other day and my hips & knees started sounding like fucking fire crackers. Then this fucker looks up at me and says

“you really are secretly dead and your body cracking from the Rigor Mortis isn’t it?”

He makes this stupid joke because My skin is always cold like a corpse.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

@Mogwitch : certainly, as long as someone can understand the risk, rewards, and effect of a product he or she should be allowed to take it. The danger is more that it could hide the symptoms and let the cause continue to cause troubles.

@victorious parasol : theses extremists have a lot of implicit assertions. I don’t have quite a bit of them, which make their saying particulary hard to follow. Like, at which moment the fact he had a “porn addiction” would change anything ? I guess the answer is particulary ugly and racist, and they don’t explicitly say it because of that.

.45
.45
7 months ago

@Elaine

Well, then tell him if he doesn’t like it, he can do all the work then.

On a more serious note, to basically repeat what everyone else is saying: He had a bad day?!?! No, his victims had a “bad day”, he was just a religious fruitcake who figured the best way to solve his problems was to kill people who did nothing to him.

Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

It’s ironic, a lot of these MRAlt-Right characters (for want of a better label) are obsessed with the Joker, the Batman character. You see all the memes; and that guy who shot up the cinema. But this whole ‘one bad day’ thing was the central premise of The Killing Joke; the moral of which was everyone has bad days, and they don’t crack up.

“I’ve proved my point. I’ve demonstrated there’s no difference between me and everyone else! All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’s how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.”

“He’s fine. Despite all your sick, vicious little games, he’s as sane as he ever was. So maybe ordinary people don’t always crack. Maybe there isn’t any need to crawl under a rock with all the other slimey things when trouble hits. Maybe it was just you, all the time.”

tessarion
tessarion
7 months ago

The connection to conservative Christianity surprised me, though I guess it probably shouldn’t have in retrospect.

(I will say that those folks who blame women for temptation aren’t being particularly good Christians, given that guidance that’s *explicitly given* in the Bible by the Big Man Himself for these sorts of situations is literally ‘cut off your genitals if they’re causing you to sin.’ It’s all on you, guys, not the women!)

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

@Mogwitch:

As far as I can tell, they think what women want is to have power over men, so we use our power over men to have power over men.

Styx, a now-defunct perfume by Coty, had a blatantly witchcraft-themed marketing campaign in the U.S. in the 70’s; I’m still amazed that the stuff was available at the corner drugstore.The product line, packaged in black with a logo suggesting a devil’s tail, included the likes of “Destiny Drops”, “Spell-Spinning Spray”, and “Bewitching Bath Brew”. Each bottle came with an incantation that you were supposed to recite while applying the product; Styx’s pitch clearly spoke to an old-school Screw-The-Rules-I-Have-Magic approach that had never heard of the Wiccan Rede.

“I summon the spirits, the powers that be, Whisper my message, enchant him for me.”

“Styx river, Styx water, mystery double – turn him my way or bring him trouble!”

The idea of occult-power-in-a-bottle was mightily intriguing, but where were they hiding the potions that would allow you to fly, shapeshift, or conjure lightning? To Full Metal Calf, Summon Boyfriend seemed to be a downright anticlimactic end goal.

Last edited 7 months ago by Full Metal Ox
Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
7 months ago

one of my tattoos is Matthew 5:30. From the King James Version. That passage says
” and if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. For it is profitable to you that one of thy members should and not thy whole body should be cast into hell.

I got that tattoo to cover up some of the scars from my sexual assault. Because looking at the scars caused from that were contributing to my depression and making me want to kill myself. As everyone knows, suicide is a big no no for Christianity. To a lot of Catholics, Tattoos are also a big no no. Many asked me why I have tattoos and consider myself a Catholic. That quote was interrupted by me that if having those scars covered by tattoos brought me peace and helped me to heal Then god has no problem with them. If they are apart of the thing that keeps me from committing the bigger sin of suicide that would cast my soul into hell then it’s a good thing.

This quote also has another teaching as well though. This guy should have crushed his hands, cut of his genitals, Had himself locked away, anything if it would have prevented him committing the bigger sin of taking a life. Or harming another person. That’s what conservative Christians should be saying instead of trying to find excuses for what he’s done.

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

But this whole ‘one bad day’ thing was the central premise of The Killing Joke; the moral of which was everyone has bad days, and they don’t crack up.

Not to mention that the other characters’ bad day came about by the Joker’s deliberate choice. And that Barbara Gordon would later, in one of the greatest Canon Saving Throws ever, reinvent herself as a crime fighter and pioneer the role of Tech Support Superhero.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
7 months ago

@Full Metal Ox

And later she faced the Joker and won.

“Oracle online. Attitude at optimum.”

Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

@ Elaine

To a lot of Catholics, Tattoos are also a big no no

One of my friends has a tattoo of the verse in Levitcus saying not to get tattoos.

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

One of my friends has a tattoo of the verse in Levitcus saying not to get tattoos.

”All Cretans are liars”, said the Cretan.

Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

Argh, I’ve lost The Game!

(Cretan paradox > Prize for seeing a donkey but not thinking of its tail > game)

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

And now I’m reminded of a Doctor Strange|Spider-Man story that began with Strange making an inspection of various dimensional planes—including a blank white un-dimension that he needed to check to ensure that Nisilette the Unimaginable had not yet been imagined. (Lest something happen too awful even to tell us about, because then we’d go and imagine it.)

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/523824.html

Alan Robertshaw
7 months ago

@ full metal ox

For somebody ‘unrelenting’ she sure likes to put her feet up.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
7 months ago

Notice the exact same “men” who preach about “titty power” ruining their lives also get profanely angry when women who have actual pain and difficulties with their daily activities get breast-reduction surgery.

Hopefully the also-racist cop gets his ass fired.

@Elaine: I see why you love him so.

@Full Metal Ox: I know! Flying or being invisible would have been way more useful! Maybe being able to stop time during math tests!

Also, that Dr. Strange bit makes my head hurt. Tautological much?

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

And now this comes out: those wicked exotic temptresses ranged up to 74 years of age (and the seniors killed may well have been there as plain old therapeutic massage clients):

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56446771

(Not that conventionally attractive young women, even if they’re using massage as a context for sex work, are rightful prey either; it’s just that the facts erode this guy’s professed excuse even further.)

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
7 months ago

It’s begun.

https://www.ipcamlive.com/60401b8d3413c

Apparently at a spot in the middle of nowhere named Geldingaladir. So, not a threat to lives or livelihood.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
7 months ago

No doubt about it. There’s nothing else that this could be.

comment image

Allandrel
Allandrel
7 months ago

The Epimenides Paradox (aka the Cretan Paradox) always drives me up a wall. When I first heard it, I had to spend an hour with google just trying to understand where the supposed paradox is.

For those unfamiliar, it is:

“All Cretans lie all the time,” says Epimenides, a Cretan.

So? Well, according to the so-called “logic” of the “philosophers” of the ancient Mediterranean, if all Cretans lie all the time, then Epimenides, as a Cretan, must be lying. But that means that”all Cretans lie all the time” is a lie, well then all Cretans must tell the truth all of the time, in which case Epimenides is telling the truth and all Cretans lie all the time and so on and so forth.

This, apparently, was considered an unsolvable logical paradox, and one philosopher supposedly worried himself to death over it. Even though the “logic” involved is laughably stupid:

“If ‘all Cretans lie all the time,’ is a lie, then all must Cretans tell the truth all the time.”

What?

For FUCK’S SAKE, you ancient nincompoops. This isn’t a game of “Knights and Knaves,” where everyone either says nothing but truth or nothing but lies. People can do both. The rest of us learned this at approximately the same time we learned what a lie IS.

If Epimenides is lying, then that at least one Cretan tells the truth at least some of the time. Like, people, y’know, observably do. It does not in any way indicate that Epimenides must be telling the truth right now.

There, I solved your damn paradox in five seconds because I understand that “All A are Y” being false does not necessarily mean that “All A are X” must be true. I understand this because I am able to observe reality. Seriously, your “logic” follows the exact same path as “If ‘all cardinals are red’ is not true, then all cardinals must be brown” despite having seen both red and brown cardinals.

Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

@Surplus to Requirements:

Context, please: what’s “it”? Is this the show that you were grumbling about having been denied? “Geldingaladir” yields a complete null on Google.

Leo
Leo
7 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw
It should also be noted on how much of an asshole the Joker traditionally is to the women in his life
He beats, mocks, and degrades, Harlequin for instance.
The type of asshole these mra-alt right types cry about the only ones attracting women as opposed to “nice guys” like them.
them identifying with a girlfriend beating monster helps show “nice” they’d probably treat any woman who’d shack up with them

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
7 months ago

No, it’s the volcano in Iceland finally waking up that I was also waiting for.

TV? That seems to have become a complete wasteland of reruns lately. I don’t know how some of the shows I routinely watch are even going to make it to 22 episodes by early June, given how few they’ve aired thus far since last September and how few weeks are left until then. Especially inexplicable is tonight’s MacGyver being a rerun when they could have aired the missing episode from last week! Why wait any longer than that?

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
7 months ago

The following statement is true.

The preceding statement is false.

😛

Anonymous
Anonymous
7 months ago

@Ohlmann
Well, how else do you think shit like this can be deterred? God knows that giving them incentives to not act like monsters doesn’t work, and my cynical side suggests that the only reason that harshness doesn’t work is because it’s used too inconsistently (read: only on the underclasses and not against the genuinely guilty) and in ways that defeat the purpose of the punishment fitting the crime (which I view as “if you can’t control your desires then we’ll have to do it for you”).

ginger
ginger
7 months ago

@Big Titty Demon

Thank you for your suggestion. I will do that.

ginger
ginger
7 months ago

David, as usual your Post article is spot-on.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

@allandrel : you should not be *that* dismissive. While you put it in layman terms, that’s non-trivial boolean logic, and mathematics were just in their infancy. It’s similar to how the earliest known mathematic problem can be solved in seconds by anyone with second grade mathematics.

It’s useful to remember that science and mathematics did not just give use iphones, but also a ton of powerful shortcut that make a ton of thing look trivial in retrospect.

@Anonymous : you know, shit like that happen with white terrorists because they know the cops and state have their back, and that white people are never suspicious. And for a bunch of other reasons, but for purpose of dissuasion, if they got half the checks black people had and knew the police were actively hostile to them, the number of shooting spree would be much, much lower.

Also, you’re sort of right saying harshness is too inconsistently applied. But it go farther : harshness isn’t necessary as long as people are consistently caught and punished. You need the punishment to not be a complete slap on the wrist, but you absolutely not need to threaten offenders with a long and agonizing death after weeks of tortures, that won’t be any more dissuasive than ten years of prisons. In fact, if it’s *too* harsh it might be counter productive and you might end up with people not taking the option seriously.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
7 months ago

but you absolutely not need to threaten offenders with a long and agonizing death after weeks of tortures, that won’t be any more dissuasive than ten years of prisons.

See, for example, the way England’s “Bloody Code” of criminal punishments emphatically did not work in the 1800s. Turns out capital punishment or transportation to Australia for petty crimes doesn’t make people stop committing crimes. (Note, though, I am NOT equating theft of a pocketwatch with murder.)

I wish I had an answer. I wish there were an answer, that would not just punish this evil but more importantly deter future acts like this. I try to raise my own children to know they have consequences for their actions, and to get them to think before they act. But they are basically decent people with a strong sense of ethics, so that approach works. What works, though, to change the people who do not see the value of empathy, or even the essential rights and inherent worth of others?

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
7 months ago

It’s becoming clearer that the businesses were spas, not brothels, which proves that the shooter’s claim that it was about sex and not race is total bullshit. If it was about sex, well, Atlanta is basically the world capital of strip club but he didn’t shoot up the Cheetah Lounge. Instead, he deliberately targetted Asian-run and staffed businesses. One even had ‘Asian’ in the name.

One victim was a new mother out for a relaxing night with her husband–that’s not a situation where one goes to a brothel.

The media partly to blame here–the term “massage parlor” was thrown around way too freely when it would have just been easier to say ‘spa’. There’s racism behind that.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 months ago

“All Cretans lie all the time,” says Epimenides, a Cretan.

This paradox is not solved by the observation that proving that “All S are P” is false doesn’t mean that “No S are P” becomes true. If “All S are P” is false, then that could mean that “Some S are P” is true, which could mean that “Some S are not P” is true but doesn’t necessarily.

If Epimenides is telling the truth that “All S are P” then “All S are P” is actually not true because at least one S is not P. This means that “Some S are P” could be true (but isn’t necessarily) but “All S are P” is definitely not. Therefore Epimenides is clearly lying, as “All S are P” is not true, but if he is, then our evidence that “All S are P” is false has disappeared and “All S are P” might be true again.

So the paradox still stands and is not resolved.

Last edited 7 months ago by Policy of Madness
Full Metal Ox
7 months ago

@LindsayIrene:

The media partly to blame here–the term “massage parlor” was thrown around way too freely when it would have just been easier to say ‘spa’. There’s racism behind that.

I jumped to that conclusion in my first comment, and my apologies.

Meanwhile, on tonight’s episode of Do You Have As Much Emotional Intelligence As A First-Grader, here’s a six-year-old boy allaying his four-year-old brother’s incipient tantrum by using the regulation techniques he learned:

http://twitter.com/Ashleyoutloud/status/1371298855078170630

Allandrel
Allandrel
7 months ago

@Ohlmann:

No knowledge of mathematics is necessary to understand that there are more possibilities than “all Cretans lie all the time” and “all Cretans tell the truth all the time.” All it requires is basic observation that any young child who understands the concepts of lying and the differences between “all, some, and none.”

Policy of Madness:

If Epimenides is telling the truth that “All S are P” then “All S are P” is actually not true because at least one S is not P. This means that “Some S are P” could be true (but isn’t necessarily) but “All S are P” is definitely not. Therefore Epimenides is clearly lying, as “All S are P” is not true, but if he is, then our evidence that “All S are P” is false has disappeared and “All S are P” might be true again.

That doesn’t make any sense. By establishing that it is impossible for “All S are P” to be true, but it is possible for “Some S are P” to be true, the so-called paradox is solved. You don’t go back to the start because there is no need to – you have established a logical explanation for Epimenides’ claim.

Why would you need evidence that “some S are P” is possible? “No S are P” is even more of an unfounded supposition that “some S are P,” so why doesn’t it require evidence, but is assumed if “all S are P” is untrue?

Let’s put this another way:

“All S are P” is false. We know that at least one S is not P.

“No S are P” also cannot be true, as it creates the paradox.

But that leaves endless possibilities between those two options. All those need is to be possible for the “puzzle” to be resolved. We don’t need evidence for them.

I’m reminded of the Young-Earth Creationists who argue that if anything in biology is wrong, then their interpretation of Genesis MUST be right. “Not Option 1” does not automatically mean “Option 2” unless you have established that there are no other options. And nothing in the Epimenides Paradox, or in what you just outlined, does that.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 months ago

@Allandrel

“No S are P” is a red herring. It’s irrelevant to the discussion and logically impossible to prove from the premises.

But so is “Some S are P” – it’s irrelevant.

“All S are P” implies “Some S are P” – if all Cretans lie all the time, then some Cretans also lie all the time.

But if “All S are P” is false, then we have no evidence whatsoever with respect to “Some S are P.” If at least one Cretan is not a 100% liar, then that implies absolutely nothing with respect to “Some S are P.” It’s not an easy concept. Let’s sub in some other terms.

All mammals are reptiles. We know this to not be true – cats are not reptiles. So does that mean that some mammals are reptiles? Well, no. It turns out that there is no animal that can be accurately described as both a mammal and a reptile, so disproving the premise that all mammals are reptiles does not mean that some mammals are reptiles.

But let’s try a different set of terms. All warm-blooded animals are mammals. Again, we can observe that this is false. Some warm-blooded animals are birds. Does this mean that no warm-blooded animal is a mammal? Well, of course not.

So disproving “All S are P” provides us with no logical information about “Some S are P” – “Some S are P” could be true or it could be false, and there is no way from the evidence that “All S are P” is false to say which.

The only statement of relevance is “All S are P.” Is it true or is it false? Introducing other statements is leading you down a path.

Last edited 7 months ago by Policy of Madness
.45
.45
7 months ago

Just read some more info on our wonderful “sex addict”. Long story short: He was tossed out of his church, kicked out by his family, spent over an hour in the spa before the shooting…. if I had to theorize, I’d say it was most likely that he went in expecting a happy ending to help his feefees, didn’t get it, threw a fit, the boss (most likely the first victim) told him to take a hike, so bang bang was the obvious solution in his mind.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
7 months ago

What if Epimenides was lying about being Cretan, huh?

Apparently this murderer is just plain racist and disapproves of people finding comfort in a spa setting. Maybe if he’d had a hot tub and an occasional massage, he wouldn’t have been so uptight?

Nah. He’d still be a fundie with a terrible attitude towards women and ethnic minorities.

.45 may have it sussed out.

Allandrel
Allandrel
7 months ago

@Policy of Madness

But if the only thing you can prove is that “All S are P” cannot be true, there is nothing to solve and no paradox. The paradox is dependent on the chain of reasoning that “if ‘all S are P’ is false, then ‘no S are P’ must be true.”

Otherwise there’s no circling back to the beginning. Epimenides is just wrong, and the “right answer” cannot be determined from the information available. That’s not a paradox, that’s just a scenario with incomplete information.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 months ago

@Allandrel

Epimenides is just wrong

If he’s wrong, then “All Cretans lie all the time” is false, but it also means that our evidence that “All S are P” is false has evaporated, because the only reason to not believe it to be true is that Epimenides must be lying if it is true.

Yes, it’s a circle, and that’s what makes it a paradox. If we have evidence that “All S are P” is false, then our evidence of it being false is gone.

You don’t have to think it’s a particularly interesting paradox. It really isn’t. It’s a valid logical paradox, but as you’ve grasped, the paradox kind of evaporates once you leave the process of pure logic and start to look at the state of the real world. The dichotomy paradox is much more interesting, at least to me, as it sort of bends the brain the same way calculus does.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
7 months ago

Perhaps Epimenides was a hypocrete; not consistently performing up to his own cultural standards.

Dalillama
7 months ago

@PoM

It’s a valid logical paradox, but as you’ve grasped, the paradox kind of evaporates once you leave the process of pure logic and start to look at the state of the real world.

Which is one reason why the concept of ‘pure’ logic is entirely meaningless outside of mathematics.

The dichotomy paradox is much more interesting, at least to me, as it sort of bends the brain the same way calculus does.

Not really. Calculus involves quite complex mathematical techniques. The dichotomy ‘paradox’ is a game of semantics.

Allandrel
Allandrel
7 months ago

@PoM

It’s a valid logical paradox, but as you’ve grasped, the paradox kind of evaporates once you leave the process of pure logic and start to look at the state of the real world.

At this point, it’s really starting to sound like the old physics joke where a chicken farmer asks a physicist for help, and the physicist offers a solution that will work – assuming a spherical chicken in a vacuum.

Last edited 7 months ago by Allandrel
Ohlmann
Ohlmann
7 months ago

@Allandrel : but in the end, the physicists are instrumental for a lot of things, ranging from GPS to proper building method.

A lot of theorical problems, like physician simulations or the logical problem in the cretean paradox, are voluntary simplified a lot, because that make them solvable. Then once we understand what the **** is going on, engineers can use approximate results inspired from theses theoritical construction to do concrete stuff.

The cretean parafox introduce the fact some logical statement can be problematic even without involving real world wonkery. Starting from there, either you accept that some statement are neither true or false (AKA, someone saying “I am lying” is neither lying nor not lying), or you accept that you can make things that look like logical statement but aren’t. (AKA someone saying “I am lying” isn’t saying something that have a sense).

Note that it’s *still* pretty basic stuff. But pretty basic stuff can be awfully useful on the long run.

(Dalillama : the cretean paradox isn’t about semantic, and have just as many deep ramification as the dichotomy. Also, pure logic is, quite litteraly, a field of mathematic, so your sentence isn’t anywhere near as meaningful as you seem to think)

Dalillama
7 months ago

@Ohlmann
The cretan bs is not a part of mathematics. Pure logic is a part of mathematics. Thus, pure logic has no relevance in that matter, q.e.d. Furthermore, if you had actually read the comment to which you refer, you would note that it was the Dichotomy ‘paradox’ which I described as a meaningless game of semantics, although in fact the Cretans are liars bit is as well. Please do work on your reading comprehension in future. Would it be easier for you if I made my point in French?

Last edited 7 months ago by Dalillama
Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 months ago

I can only feel pity for you, Dalillama. Being the #1 foremost authority on every single subject known to humanity seems to have sucked all the joy and wonder from your life. I’m so sorry that you seem so miserable.

Dalillama
7 months ago

@PoM
I don’t claim to he the #1 expert on anything, but knowing more about any given topic than you or Ohlmann is a much, much lower bar to clear, and I’ve known you long enough to be fairly confident that I am more expert on absolutely any topic than either of you, or indeed both of you put together.

PS: I also take joy in pointing out all the ways you’re wrong. Perhaps it’s petty of me, but I am at peace with that aspect of myself.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
7 months ago

@Dalillama

I know your goal is to insult and hurt me, but you can’t. Whatever is causing your deep insecurity and need to prove yourself is neither my doing nor my problem. You do whatever you feel a need to do to soothe yourself but don’t expect me to engage with it.

Reaktor
Reaktor
7 months ago

@Policy of Madness:

I know your goal is to insult and hurt me, but you can’t. Whatever is causing your deep insecurity and need to prove yourself is neither my doing nor my problem.

There’s nothing deep to analize there, Dalillama is just a reckless bully and abuser that should have been banned ages ago.

Dalillama: 5% bluster, 5% hatred, 90% hot gas.

Mabret the Virile Maiden
Mabret the Virile Maiden
7 months ago

The negation of “P(X) is true for all X in set S” is not “Q(X) is true for all X in set S”, but “P(X) is not true for at least one X in set S”.

Contrapangloss
Contrapangloss
7 months ago

Things are getting real salty in the mathematics fandom, eh? Can we not just enjoy things?

Like, yeah, the Cretan paradox is easy (and not a paradox) enough once you figure out out what Mabret just said. Does that mean being confused by it is stupid?

Not at all! The first time bouncing against this kind of statement is rough on everyone. Some people just encounter it sooner than others.

Also, it’s a good lesson in recursive definitions, and how they can trip someone up! And remembering the proper negation for IF Cretan THAN liar structures.

Does that mean it’s awesome? And anyone who has brains MUST understand how valuable it is to math and logic and the natural order of things?

Nah. It’s not that cool. Cool enough to be worth staring at (and wrestling with on first spotting in the wild). But not a great “no one cares about the origins of math like I do” rubric.

I’m gonna go stand out in the rain and see if I can rinse some of this salt off.

TL;DR: Nobody is an idiot for loving the Cretan paradox, and nobody is an idiot for thinking it is a paradox.