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incels mass shooting racism

8 dead in massage parlor shooting rampage, most of them Asian women: Open thread

This afternoon, a 21-year-old white man named Robert Aaron Long allegedly went on a shooting rampage at three massage parlors in the Atlanta, Georgia area. He reportedly killed eight people, six of them Asian women. He was arrested after a car chase.

This gives off the distinct whiff of an incel shooting, though at this point that’s just speculation. Obviously racism may have played a role as well.

Please post any reliable information on the shootings you run across.

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Dalillama
4 months ago

@joekster
Just don’t do it again, or I swear that I will explain in painful detail why you’re factually, historically, and ethically wrong, and I will not be taking any care for anyone’s feelings at that time. In future, I strongly recommend that you not lay claim to any moral high ground derived from your faith.

Joekster
Joekster
4 months ago

@Dallama- rest assured, I won’t.

joekster
joekster
4 months ago

@Dalilama
If I had any sense, I’d leave it there. But then, letting ill enough alone has never been my strength, so once more into the breech.

I am responsible for how I am perceived- and I clearly did not do enough to show that I include myself in the group that I am criticizing here (US white Christians). This mangling of our teachings is not a problem for other people- it is a problem for my people*. My own small corner of that community (specifically, US Reconciling United Methodists, though there is no reason that should mean anything to anyone here- I’d be happy to discuss further if anyone is interested) is working to heal some of the harms our community have done- we deserve no special praise or notice for that. We’re late to the party, and we’re struggling to catch up, and sometimes I think we do more harm than we do good. I do not claim any moral high ground because of my faith- I claim only that my faith offers a perspective that those outside it do not possess into the motivations of this criminal, and that is all I wished to offer.

My faith is important to me, and I value the perspective of others on it as a way to identify errors in that faith that I cannot see myself. However, my faith journey is not worth causing harm to others- especially not to members of those very communities that same faith has harmed and is still harming. I will not bring up the subject again. I will continue to follow this blog, and will comment when I think I can do so without triggering other folks, and while being mindful of the fact that this is not my space. I’ve no wish to fight, or to persuade, only to understand and, perhaps, be understood. I do wish you the very best, and healing and peace, so far as such are attainable, and I regret any harm my above words have done to you or to others in this group.

*I’m sure others will argue that the bigots have our teachings exactly correct, and it is my corner of the Christian world that is mangling them- that’s an argument I’ve had several times since I was a teenager, both with the bigots and with people hostile to Christianity who argue the bigots are more or less correct about our religion, and that this is why they reject my religion. This probably isn’t the place to re-enact the argument. I’ve read Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. They’re not entirely wrong, but I don’t think they’re entirely correct either- and my own faith is more influenced by the likes of Bishop Shelby Spong and Rev. Nadia Bolz-Weber.

Contrapangloss
Contrapangloss
4 months ago

@Joekster,

I know exactly the rock and a hard place you’re in, because…um… recent import to the pnwumc and all that jazz, with a bonus of Baptist missionary grandfather who warned me about charismatic Methodists and doctrinal soundness or lack thereof.

I wish I could tell you a good place to wrestle with what you’re wrestling with, and a good place to be helpful in healing the harm, but I’m at a loss.

Just, maybe not right here, right now? Maybe some open thread in the future that isn’t the result of the intersection of racism, misogyny, and the particular ‘Christian’ zeitgeist that intersects the two (and quite a few other problematic things).

Or on a USRUM page somewhere. I don’t typically hang out in those haunts online, but maybe you’d find something useful there? Because, yeah, we’ve got to fix our house somehow, but here is not where we fix it.

Last edited 4 months ago by Contrapangloss
Joekster
Joekster
4 months ago

@Contrapangloss: I think you’re right on all counts. This really isn’t the place.

Joekster
Joekster
4 months ago

@Contrapangloss: I used to hang out on the Progressive Methodists FB page- but I deleted my FB account for other reasons lst August. Maybe it’s time to get back on.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
4 months ago

@Contrapangloss:

Maybe somewhere at Patheos?

epitome of incomrepehensibility

while being mindful of the fact that this is not my space

@Joekster – if I can interject my two cents: please don’t feel unwanted. I mean, of course it’s not your blog, but it’s your space to the extent that you’re a commenter here.

(Forgive me if this is too literal-minded.)

That said, I can see the misunderstanding: talking about Christianity as if the issue were the murderer not being a good Christian. To me, that’s besides the point, because no one should act like that, but I didn’t think that you were trying to say Christians were better than other people.

…As for the whole situation, I just don’t have adequate words, but the amount of racist and misogynist terrorism that’s happened in the last few years frightens me. I wish healing and justice for the friends and family of the victims.

Joekster
Joekster
4 months ago

@Contrapangloss: thank you for the reminder about PNWUMC- I really need to start following Hacking Christianity again. I’m in GPUMC, and Jeremy Smith has been a bit of an inspiration to us here in the midwest.

@Surplutorequirements: I think Patheos is a great idea. I’ll spend some time looking around there.

@epitome: I take your point about being more concerned about the murderer being a bad Christian than his being a terrible human being. I was specifically responding to Hambeasts comment about Christians acting in an unChristlike way- but nobody should ever hold up the average Christian as a role model. I’ve always been moved by Ghandi’s comment about Christ vs Christians- and that’s evidence that it’s not just a US Christian problem either- our kindred in Europe have often done quite as badly as we have. I don’t feel unwelcome here- but I am a cishet white Christian male. There’s plenty of spaces for folks like me to air our grievances- there aren’t so many for people who aren’t like me in those ways.

@all: The murders were absolutely horrible, and the murderer’s attempt to justify them with his religion- well, it either does harm to Christianity or fully embodies the darkest aspects of the faith. Either way, it’s reprehensible, and as Contrapangloss said, we need to get our house in order.

And with that, I’m going to stop hoarding the air in here 😀.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
4 months ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/21/us/atlanta-spa-attacks-mario-gonzalez.html

Just in case you thought this police department couldn’t get more reprehensible. Soft paywall.