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Impeachment Acquittal Open Thread

Well, that was depressingly predictable, huh? Let’s hope this grifter has to face a real court — or ten — for some of his (alleged) other crimes, financial and otherwise.

Discuss!

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Anonymous
Anonymous
12 days ago

I feel silly for crossposting this, but here goes.

Why am I not surprised Trump was acquitted again? If justice is to be done with him, there’s no way it can happen in the halls of a Congress too busy bickering over irrelevant minutiae and covering each other’s asses in the name of party loyalty and preservation of a status quo whose entire existence was a mistake.

If Trump is to be held accountable for anything, the people will need to take matters directly into their own hands and see that the government has no intention of doing what is right no matter who’s in charge. The wealthy always protect their own, even when they’re in allegedly different political parties. Even if he does end up in court elsewhere, they won’t be able to touch him simply by virtue of him being a rich old white man- the exact type of person the system was designed to protect.

banned@4chan.org
banned@4chan.org
12 days ago

Cowards. Forty-three Senators are cowards, and have publicly displayed their cowardice.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
12 days ago

I am so fucking tired. And honestly, even more than the Republicans’ gleeful sadism, I’m disgusted with centrist Democrats yet again backing down, even on the mostly symbolic level of failing to call witnesses. I don’t have words for how fucked we are if they keep doing that, if they keep failing to deliver.

Talking to more center-left friends too, they were often like “McConnell said he’ll vote to convinct, it might actually happen! There is a sea change!” and I was like “You know he’s lying, right?” and basically got told off for being a know-it-all. It’s so exhausting. The naivety and denialism and performative civility is so potent it’s like a death wish.

Republicans, every time: “We are going to rape and murder you and your entire family.”

Democrats, every time: “Wait! Let’s negotiate! What if you only rape and murder my least favorite kid, can that be a deal?”

It’s enough to drive a woman mad.

Last edited 12 days ago by Cyborgette
Naglfar
Naglfar
12 days ago

I am not surprised in the least. At this point, I think the only way to hold Trump accountable is state courts. New York is probably the state that can get him on the most charges, seeing as Florida’s governor still thinks Trump won the election.

@Cyborgette

Talking to more center-left friends too, they were often like “McConnell said he’ll vote to convinct, it might actually happen! There is a sea change!” and I was like “You know he’s lying, right?”

The willingness of centrists (and even some leftists) to still take conservatives at their word is disgusting. It’s just so exhausting that every time they think the Republicans aren’t going to pull the football away this time.

Allandrel
Allandrel
12 days ago

You would think that Democrats would have learned at least as early as the ACA, where they bent over backwards to meet Republican demands and then every last Republican voted against it anyway. They never, ever act in good faith.

Dalillama
12 days ago

@Banned@4chan

Cowards. Faacists. Forty-three Senators arecowardsfascists, and have publicly displayed their cowardicefascism.

They didn’t aquit because they were afraid of anything but a country where people who aren’t cishet white men have rights. Calling it cowardice is excusing them for their knowing choices.

@Allandrel
Again, this is not being done out of naivete, it is being done as a deliberate pretense of opposition. They are behaving as they do because they agree more with Republicans than they do with decent people. Or, put more bluntly, they’re also fucking fascists, and are actively choosing to aid their fellow travelers who’ve stopped pretending they aren’t fascists.

Mabret the Virile Maiden
Mabret the Virile Maiden
12 days ago

What was Nixon so afraid of? surely not the kangaroo court that is impeachment? American “checks and balances” are a total joke.

Xennial Dot Warner
Xennial Dot Warner
12 days ago

Even his accomplices—those Senators who voted to acquit—admitted that he was guilty as the Seven Deadly Sins. And it wasn’t even about him being removed from office; he’d been out since shortly after his second impeachment (and we can thank McConnell for the trial not happening while he was still in office; apparently, they can rush seating a Justice, but will drag their feet on holding a crooked politician accountable).

No; the Senate was given a choice whether to put a restriction on his ability to stage another coup, or to demand that the country subsidize him and his immediate family for the rest of their lives. And they chose the latter option. In other words: Republicans’ claim of “fiscal conservatism” is as monstrous of a baldfaced lie as their claim of being the party of law and order; and he is essentially being rewarded for trying to undermine the country. God help America.

Dalillama
12 days ago

@Xennial Dot Warner
You just have to understand the American dialect: “Fiscal Responsibility” means “trillions for mass murder, not one cent for anything that might help Black or Native people”. “Law and order” means “imprison, enslave, and/or murder Black people under colour of law, and under no circumstances acknowledge our binding treaties with Indigenous nations.” Once you understand what Americans mean by those phrases, everything becomes clear as a bell.

Last edited 12 days ago by Dalillama
LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
12 days ago

So it has been confirmed that you can do anything, anything if you’re a Republican, including trying to get another Republican killed, and get away with it. We’re going to have to deal with a whole lot of shit down the road. They’re not going to stop. This is what they’ve been working toward since the heyday of the John Birch Society.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
12 days ago

I hope Trump repays them this kindness by creating his own party and splitting the Republican party into the fascist party and the less-fascist party. That would be in character for him; like other narcissists, he only understands gratitude and loyalty as directed toward himself, and doesn’t comprehend offering it to others.

Naglfar
Naglfar
12 days ago

@PoM

I hope Trump repays them this kindness by creating his own party and splitting the Republican party into the fascist party and the less-fascist party.

If he does that, it’ll be the end of the less-openly-fascist one. 95% of Republicans voted for Trump.

Seth S
Seth S
12 days ago

This has cemented my desire to move elsewhere in the world once I’m done with my physics degree, either back to Australia or maybe to Canada or New Zealand… some other, more civilized country.

It’s just too risky to stay here. They just gave a blank check to right wing extremists to have another coup as soon as some other Republican demagogue wishes to become dictator-for-life, and it may not fail next time. If that happens, “deviants” like myself and disabled people like my daughter will be among those slated to be removed from “polite” cis straight white able-bodied Christian society that Republican fascists want.

I wonder if this is going to become a trend before a larger problem hits the fan… much like the many scientists and intellectuals that left Germany when they saw the writing on the wall as Hitler took hold…

Herbert West
Herbert West
12 days ago

I have no idea how the USA can be fixed. Half of the population is lost, and likely for good. At this point Trump could literally walk into their homes and shit on their food, and they would thank him and gladly wolf it down. And Trump dying wouldn’t help, there’s enough replacements.
And the political system itself is in shambles. It simply doesn’t work anymore. Even the smallest changes to the constitution that might provide some relief are practically impossible now, and any larger changes might rip the country apart.
And I’ll be frank:
the best fix would be throwing the entire constitution away and writing a new one.
And that’s virtually impossible, I’m aware of that.
I’m very pessimistic about America for years now, since before Trump,but I never really talked about it. Everyone I personally know was just too positive. None believed that the Tea Party might be a proto-NSDAP (in the end they weren’t, but they morphed into the current mess). It’s not even just America, the world is standing before an abysss, and the soon unstoppable march of global warming won’t help, because no one is doing even remotely enough.
I have little hope left that our civilization has any future.

Who?
Who?
12 days ago

From here, yeIs it was predictable. If Trump had still be in power, I would have said that it proved that the republicans are a bunch of spinless cowards.
Today it is a bit different.
We have one party who doesn’t care about the constitution, one party that would be okay, if a murder happened, if the murderer was only a republican. (I am not sure if they would care who the victim was as long as the murderer was powerful enough)
The whole impeachment showed. It was a completly moreal bancrupty for a certain party.
Don’t know if it will work but it had to be done, even if their was no way to get Trump impeached.
And that is why I am not angry about the democrats. They got what was posible.
They even got the one whitness that I have heared mettered for them in the protocoll.
They have made their case, hearing 100 people who good a person Präsident Monster is wouldn’t have chanced anythink.
Sometimes you have to choose your battles and how long to fight them, and not even if it would be very satisfiing to fight until the end.

P.S: The first criminal investigation against the orange one has started and the GOP is now proven an enemy of the United Staate.

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
12 days ago

Meanwhile, American corona deaths are on track to surpass 500k by the end of next week.

Lollypop
Lollypop
12 days ago

@Herbert

I have no idea how the USA can be fixed. Half of the population is lost, and likely for good. At this point Trump could literally walk into their homes and shit on their food, and they would thank him and gladly wolf it down.

It’s the same in the UK, Boris’s government has mishandled the COVID response in perhaps the worst way seen globally (aside from Brazil), leading to worse economic outcomes, mass death and a variant that’s thrown the rest of the world into further danger. And he’s still leading in the polls! While billionaires control the media we’re doomed.

rv97
12 days ago

The Democrats are cowards. We need a REAL force against the Republicans and white supremacist, misogynist and capitalist America! If this has to involve Antifa, so be it.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
11 days ago

You know I don’t mean to be negative, but I keep seeing people say “I hope something happens in the real courts.”

Why do you (people who hope this) believe that anything will be different? There’s no way that a jury could be selected that hasn’t heard of Cheeto Benito and been influenced by the hearings: certainly it’s likely that partisans of either party will try to be on it, specifically to throw the jury one way or the other. You only need one assnoggin MAGA on board to hang a jury.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 days ago

Re: courts
This is a long shot and may not be possible, but would there be any way to get Trump and his accomplices to The Hague? At the very least his negligence in dealing with COVID has killed 400,000 people minimum, and that’s before examining his other policies like forced sterilizations.

Alan Robertshaw
11 days ago

@ naglfar

but would there be any way to get Trump and his accomplices to The Hague?

No. The US isn’t a State Party under the Rome Statute. So the ICC lacks jurisdiction over the actions of US citizens within the US.

Even if the US was to ratify the treaty, and there seems no great enthusiasm for that, jurisdiction isn’t retrospective.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
11 days ago

Boris isn’t just mishandling the virus, he’s engaging in Nazi-esque eugenics:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/13/new-do-not-resuscitate-orders-imposed-on-covid-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties

Stop the world, I want to get off.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
11 days ago

As I have postulated many times, people in trumps socioeconomic group NEVER face consequences

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
11 days ago

@ Naglfar

If he does that, it’ll be the end of the less-openly-fascist one. 95% of Republicans voted for Trump.

It would also be very difficult for the fascist party to win elections. Splitting off even 5% of the Republican vote to a different party would ensure a lot of Republican losses. Many elections are won by smaller margins.

Of course this doesn’t address the coup problem. I’m not sure what could. Coups are already illegal but if you incite one nothing happens to you. Laws with no consequences are just suggestions.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
11 days ago

I’ve heard the rumor that the 1/6 coup galvanized certain Republican lawmakers and bigwigs to seriously talk about forming a Right-Center party to draw off the folks who don’t like the state of the current GOP. What the effects of that move on the political landscape might be (if true/actually comes about) remains to be seen.

Dalillama
11 days ago

@Redsilkphoenix
That party is the Democrats.

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 days ago

@Redsilkphoenix
They’d never do it. If they did, they’d never win any elections. The party is the party of Trump, whether the GOP likes it or not. They built this monster, and every single one of them is complicit in his rise and reign, regardless of how they voted yesterday. Any GOP legislator acting like they grew a conscience is doing so for optics alone.

TheKnd
TheKnd
11 days ago

@Dalillama

Exactly! That’s what the Lincoln Project is for. To “respectable” the Democrats further to the right. There’s a reason those people focus on Democrats and not the Republicans, they are supposed to get “back on track” (as if Trump was some kind of derailing)

Anonymous
Anonymous
11 days ago

By the way, the state courts won’t do dick either. It’s the same system with the same vested interests in protecting people like Trump. If any justice will come to him, I’d expect it to be of the vigilante variety with all of the nastinessthat can end up unleashing, even if it would be justified.

Nobody said tearing down a corrupt system would be clean, but it sure would be nice if it was at least slightly possible to avoid collateral damage.

Klaaraa
Klaaraa
11 days ago

Quick question, who Here interprets McConnell’s “there is no question, None, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the Events of the day”, as him signalling He still treats/sees Trump as the legitimate current president? Because He didn’t say Ex-President? I don’t know enough about English and the speaking conventions to know what to make of that…

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
11 days ago

I’d just like to remind the pessimists here that other wealthy and powerful men have seen the insides of jail cells — Epstein and Weinstein, for two recent examples. OK, both were egregious perverts, but so is Trump …

Naglfar
Naglfar
11 days ago

@Klaaraa
I didn’t read it that way at first, but now that you mention it, it might be. The main takeaway I got from Mitch’s statement was that he is as spineless as ever, seeing as he admitted he knew what Trump did was wrong, yet still voted to acquit.

Gwynfydd
Gwynfydd
11 days ago

@Surplus to Requirements

Boris isn’t just mishandling the virus, he’s engaging in Nazi-esque eugenics:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/13/new-do-not-resuscitate-orders-imposed-on-covid-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties

Stop the world, I want to get off.

I read about this today and feel so very furious and saddened. I work in the UK in day services for adults with disabilities. We are a drop in the ocean really, and so many of the families and other services we’re in contact with have little beyond us. Some people have hardly left their house since March last year.

So many people in this sector are very alone and this is indeed eugenics.

I feel pretty depressed to about the impeachment results but not surprised at all. Feeling for you all there in the US, but we’re not doing much better over here.

Last edited 11 days ago by Gwynfydd
rabid rabbit
rabid rabbit
11 days ago

@Klaaraa:

It’s just part of the weird monarchizing of the US Presidency — once someone’s held the role, they get called it forever. During the campaign, Biden’s team kept going on about what the Vice-President was going to be doing that day, even though he wasn’t the VP, Mike Pence was. You’re still expected to say “Mr. President” to Obama. It’s strange.

Last edited 11 days ago by rabid rabbit
Snowberry
Snowberry
11 days ago

I didn’t watch the Senate Trial this time because I was too busy having fun in the snow to deal with that nonsense.

But based on what I read about it after, it seems to me like the defense was all “Actions don’t matter, only motives! Here are some implausible motives which portray Trump as an innocent angel and the House Managers and a bunch of random unconnected liberal politicians and celebrities as Satan. We will now keep repeating it loudly to hypnotize you into believing it.” Which is more or less how a lot of conservative media works these days.

@Naglfar:

The main takeaway I got from Mitch’s statement was that he is as spineless as ever,

Worse. For a lot of Republicans, it’s genuinely cowardice, but it Mitch’s case, it’s chutzpah, which has been his modus operandi for pretty much his entire political career.

“I guess I can’t overlook it this time, so I’m open to convicting him.” (Obstructs and delays Senate trial) “Nope, I’ll be acquitting instead.” (After trial) “If the trial had happened earlier, I would have voted to convict, but alas, it is too late. Blame the Democrats.”

numerobis
numerobis
11 days ago

rabid rabbit: you don’t call the abdicated monarch by their royal title though. The US (and maybe elsewhere) has a tradition though of giving the honorific for the highest office someone has ever achieved in life — both civilian and military. Unlike in German though you only get one honorific.

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
10 days ago

@Gwynfydd
I work for a small CIC run by and for autistic people (we’re new I’m very part-time, and it’s enough for me), and have a lot to do with our local adult autism service as a service user, because of that I know a fair number of people with learning difficulties; my first reaction to that Guardian article was ‘you touch my friends, you die’. I just don’t understand why people hate disable people so much they’d take away the choice to resuscitate.

Allandrel
Allandrel
10 days ago

@North Sea Sparkly Dragon
I am autistic and have End-Stage Renal Disease, and what’s almost as distressing as the politicians that are trying to kill me are the supposed friends and family that dismiss those efforts or even support them.

When my paternal grandfather died three years ago, I had a lot of trouble processing it because this man who claimed to love me had spent the last ten years of his life voting for me to die.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
10 days ago

@ North Sea Sparkly Dragon,

Perhaps (as something I read once years ago put it) it’s because the disabled are the one minority group around that anyone can suddenly find themselves in whether they like it or not. And some people really can’t handle the idea of themselves at someone else’s mercy, depending on them to do even basic bodily functions. And so they eliminate the folks who are already disabled to avoid being reminded that they too can wind up like that.

Far from the only reason to think killing disabled folk is better for everyone (including the disabled themselves; better to be dead than live life ‘broken’ is the idea there) obviously, but a major strain of unconscious thought that goes into such thinking, I think.

Gwynfydd
Gwynfydd
9 days ago

@North Sea Sparkly Dragon

I work for a small CIC run by and for autistic people (we’re new I’m very part-time, and it’s enough for me), and have a lot to do with our local adult autism service as a service user, because of that I know a fair number of people with learning difficulties; my first reaction to that Guardian article was ‘you touch my friends, you die’. I just don’t understand why people hate disable people so much they’d take away the choice to resuscitate.

Those services sound great. Our service has been delivering support non-stop since March – and we have been providing a massive amount of remote home support for those too vulnerable to attend the critical service. And we have followed utterly rigorous COVID procedures, and not had one case to our credit. And I totally feel what you feel above with a passion.

@Allandrel

I am autistic and have End-Stage Renal Disease, and what’s almost as distressing as the politicians that are trying to kill me are the supposed friends and family that dismiss those efforts or even support them.

Yeah it’s that dismissal of people, people, that really gets to me so much right now with all of this. It’s beyond dehumanising.

@Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani

Perhaps (as something I read once years ago put it) it’s because the disabled are the one minority group around that anyone can suddenly find themselves in whether they like it or not.

Agreed yeah, we could all be in that situation. One woman I used to support had what’s called an acquired disability from a head injury. There is really something in all of it about the rejection of human vulnerability maybe? The rejection of the possibility that we are all dependent on each other in reality.

Joekster
Joekster
8 days ago

Seven Republican Senators voted to convict. That’s five more than I expected, to be honest.

The bar to convict in a US impeachment is so high that it’s a paper tiger when applied to a President- anyone who gets elected will have the support of at least a third of the Senators- anyone who doesn’t have at least that much popular support wouldn’t be elected in the first place.