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antifeminism lesbians MGTOW misogyny

“Feminism is the clumsy attempt of lesbians to increase the pool of heterosexual women that would become bicurious,” MGTOW explains

Lesbian feminists stealing our women

Men Going Their Own Way have traditionally had a lot of trouble understanding lesbians — or even believing that they exist. But one forward-thinking MGTOW gentleman thinks he’s got lesbians all figured out — and feminism too.

Let’s let him explain:

Feminism is the clumsy attempt of lesbians to increase the pool of heterosexual women that would become bicurious.

Go on.

Because lesbians are for the most part masculine presenting women that are attracted by feminine heterosexual women.

I don’t believe you’ve quite captured the rainbow of diversity that is the lesbian world, chief.

All the hate against men, sexual freedom, sluttiness, propaganda to make boys take hormon therapy …

I don’t believe that’s really a thing, dude.

… and toxic masculinity are used to lower the competition for heterosexual women that only look to the top % of menliest men.

Well, none of that made any sense. But that’s par for the course when it comes to MGTOWs.

This is episode 432,245,578 in the series “Dudes Pontificating About Shit They Know Absolutely Nothing About.”

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Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
2 months ago

MGTOWs have been mansplaining lesbianism again? I’m shocked, I tell you, shocked!

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
2 months ago

I once knew a person who described all bisexual people as “bicurious” and wouldn’t stop no matter how often you told her that bisexuality is not just a phase of curiosity. The term “bicurious” has as a result become a real pet peeve of mine. It’s bi-erasure and so offensive that it’s honestly not surprising to hear it out of a MGTOW.

Well, none of that made any sense.

What does it say about me that it actually did make sense to me?

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

Because lesbians are for the most part masculine presenting women that are attracted by feminine heterosexual women.

While I’m sure some lesbians fit this description, most I know aren’t attracted exclusively to feminine women. And most queer women don’t really want to date straight women, or at least I don’t (I’m bi, not lesbian, though).

propaganda to make boys take hormon therapy

What propaganda is this? One would think if this were real it would be easier to get on HRT.

@PoM

The term “bicurious” has as a result become a real pet peeve of mine. It’s bi-erasure and so offensive that it’s honestly not surprising to hear it out of a MGTOW.

I think it’s definitely bi erasure if it’s forced on someone else like in the example you described, but I also know people who like using that label to describe their attraction or who genuinely are exploring their own sexuality. So I think that like any label it should be for the individual to apply to themself if they so choose.

Nicholas Kiddle
Nicholas Kiddle
2 months ago

Because lesbians are for the most part masculine presenting women that are attracted by feminine heterosexual women.

Mixing up lesbians and straight trans men again is it?

Seth S
Seth S
2 months ago

@Nicholas

Whoa. Not a “masculine presenting woman”, pal. Trans men are men, we think of ourselves as men. Get it right.
(also I’m bi but I do have attraction to women, yes).

The term I hope to god you’re actually thinking of is BUTCH. Butch lesbians are not trans men. They’re masculine women, and think of themselves as women, providing the contrast to femme or “lipstick” lesbians who are the more girly girl lesbians. And it’s a whole spectrum rather than a binary, anyway.

Last edited 2 months ago by Seth S
Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

@Seth S
Nicholas is also a trans guy IIRC, so I think he was suggesting that MGTOWs had mixed up trans men and butch lesbians, which is why the MGTOWs think that lesbians are trying to attract straight women.

Teagan Jeanne Andrews
Teagan Jeanne Andrews
2 months ago

Because lesbians are for the most part masculine presenting women that are attracted by feminine heterosexual women.

“Laughter!” Oh really?

The problem with MGTOW is that it’s entirely sex revolting, whereas feminism has the propensity for being sex positive and being supportive of women, even when it’s expressing itself more radically to counter this kind of red pill misogynistic drivel.

Feminism is the clumsy attempt of lesbians to increase the pool of heterosexual women that would become bicurious.

“Laughter!” You only wish…

“I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one sex and/or gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.”

Seth S
Seth S
2 months ago

I’ll be honest, I’m really not a big fan of using MGTOWs’ stupid false definitions for us, even in satire. Whenever they see that crap it gives them the impression that some of us believe the same thing.

And it doesn’t help when I already find my family’s lack of acceptance to be enough of a Big Red Button for me that I really hate hearing it anywhere else. Swallowing the anger every time is becoming a painful and embittering thing for me when there is no constructive outlet for it, but I have no choice.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
2 months ago

If sexuality worked that way, awful men would be turning women gay.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
2 months ago

Feminism is the clumsy attempt of lesbians to increase the pool of heterosexual women that would become bicurious.

Clumsy? Ha, joke’s on you. It’s deft, artful, graceful — and it works every time.

Shane
Shane
2 months ago

The stupid is strong with MGTOW today.

Moggie
Moggie
2 months ago

OT: LonerBox on the “Sigma male”, a new bullshit category I imagine we’ll be seeing more of. (CW for the video: guy trying to force a women to kiss, when she’s clearly not interested):

https://youtu.be/i4Nnzs3Qlc0

LollyPop
LollyPop
2 months ago

I don’t think women would need The Lesbians to construct an elaborate plot to make them question their sexuality – surely everyone does at one point or another? I remember as a teenager thinking about it a lot, especially as friendships between women can get so intense and all-consuming, and there isn’t the physical distance men in our culture seem to impose on each other (my husband told me this is not the same world over, as men will hold hands with their friends in Indonesia).

But even that being said, I don’t think I could be tricked out of what turned out to be my really rather paint-by-numbers heterosexuality by “propaganda”. The fact this MGTOW believes this is possible suggests to me that he is so frightened by the idea he hasn’t spent any time thinking about his sexuality, and sees it as a fragile thing which could be attacked and subverted.

rv97
rv97
2 months ago

If changing one’s sexuality were possible, I’d wager so many straight women would become gay with the click of the fingers owing to how shitty men can be and typically are. It isn’t so this whole conjecture is a farce.

Last edited 2 months ago by rv97
Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
2 months ago

question their sexuality – surely everyone does at one point or another?

I’ve never questioned my sexuality. It is not uncommon for someone to do it, but it’s not a universal experience either.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 months ago

It’s really telling how much mating is conflated with deception and trickery in these guy’s minds. Lesbians apparently are some sort of combination Venus fly trap and angler fish who have joined together in conspiracy, and these poor men just can’t compete with them.

Meanwhile straight women are dimwitted plankton, or something, just drifting aimlessly into the nearest trap. What a cheerful view of humanity.

the top % of menliest men

He didn’t even specify a percentage of menly men. 100 is a percentage?

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
2 months ago

@Moggie:. RE:. Sigma males. I agree with one of the comments on the video – How many letters of the Greek alphabet must they defile?😀

I’m a self-confessed Pasta Female. My life wouldn’t be worth living without pasta.

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

@Buttercup

Lesbians apparently are some sort of combination Venus fly trap and angler fish who have joined together in conspiracy, and these poor men just can’t compete with them.

Of course they can’t. Who could compete with something that is both a Venus flytrap and an anglerfish?

@Dormousing_it
I’m a π female, I like desserts.

Natsume
Natsume
2 months ago

Well it wouldn’t be the manosphere if they didn’t have to mix homophobia AND transphobia into their toxic misogyny. They wonder why they see lesbians being more successful than them at getting dates…. Without realizing that its their amazing stupidity and phenomenal toxicity that chases women away.

@Moggie: I really should have opened that one in a incognito window, shouldn’t have I? I think it would be a good idea if we all could remind others to do that, when we post links.

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 months ago

You know, I wish lesbians and feminism were all so onboard with trans folk as he thinks. Would make my life simpler

Natsume
Natsume
2 months ago

@Bakunin, yeah. You’d think they’d know better with how eager so called “gender critical” FARTs are to agree with manospherian/alt-right misogyny. Even the ones who identify themselves as lesbians.

Last edited 2 months ago by Natsume
Fabe
Fabe
2 months ago

@naglfar
@Buttercup

Lesbians apparently are some sort of combination Venus fly trap and angler fish who have joined together in conspiracy, and these poor men just can’t compete with them.

Of course they can’t. Who could compete with something that is both a Venus flytrap and an anglerfish?

Sounds like something you’ll find in one of the deeper biomes in the game ‘Subnutica’

Last edited 2 months ago by Fabe
bcb
bcb
2 months ago

Of course they can’t. Who could compete with something that is both a Venus flytrap and an anglerfish?

Maybe a Venus flytrap and butterwort hybrid that gets retconned into an alien in the stage adaption?

Allandrel
Allandrel
2 months ago

Re: Sigma Males

I “love” that these Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Omega and now Sigma screeds come from the same people who complain “I can’t keep up with all these made-up genders and pronouns!”

Really? Because it’s easier to learn the lexicon of a White Wolf game than that of the manosphere. At least Vampire: The Masquerade has real-world roots for most of its made-up names that relate to their VTM meaning somehow.

Nicholas Kiddle
Nicholas Kiddle
2 months ago

Naglfar:

Nicholas is also a trans guy IIRC, so I think he was suggesting that MGTOWs had mixed up trans men and butch lesbians, which is why the MGTOWs think that lesbians are trying to attract straight women.

I am, yes, and that is what I was getting at. I guess I didn’t express it very well because my brain can no longer work out which is day and which is night. Sorry for any confusion.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 months ago

Re: ‘Sigma Males’…

That one isn’t new. I think that one actually was associated with previous discussion subject here Vox Day, who was trying to present it as some sort of super-alpha. In the sense of ‘I am so much better than you I don’t have to care about your petty Alpha/Beta distinctions’. As applied to himself, of course.

What this means, in practice, is that the main difference between Alpha and Sigma is that the Sigmas are the grifters making money selling ‘advice’ to the people trying to call themselves Alphas.

@Allandrel:
Yeah, pretty much. Much like it’s only ‘identity politics’ when it’s something other than white/male/cis/het/etc. The people who spend hours shouting into their megaphones about how their white identities are being persecuted aren’t playing ‘identity politics’, no, not at all…

Moggie
Moggie
2 months ago

In a subculture obsessed with hierarchy, I suppose it was inevitable that there would be a need for a “more alpha than alpha” designation. Sooner or later, the same will presumably happen with sigmas, and tau males will be the new hotness.

Lisa Mullin
Lisa Mullin
2 months ago

Interestingly that’s an idea they share with the TERFs who are ‘political lesbians’ such as Janice Raymond.. Julie Jeffreys and Julie Bindel. That sexuality is a ‘political choice’ and that feminists should choose to be lesbians.

Bindel, WGTOW:
-“all feminists can and should be lesbians. Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men. It does not mean compulsory sexual activity with women.”
-“We think serious feminists have no choice but to abandon heterosexuality”
-“I think it’s time for feminists to re-open the debate about heterosexuality, and to embrace the idea of political lesbianism.”

Raymond:
-“Women are not born Lesbians. Women become Lesbians out of choice’

Jeffreys:
-“The lesbian feminist sees her lesbianism as something that can be chosen, and as political resistance in action”

Jefferys also thinks lesbians won’t exist in the future as they will no longer be needed when women and men are equal.
-“The lesbian is a product of a particular historical moment”
-“Lesbianism needs to exist now to provide a refuge for those women who rebel, and as the basis of a movement for social change.”
-“But in the future, when women’s oppression no longer exists, and heterosexuality as a political institution no longer plays a crucial political role, the possibilities
open to women are likely to be different.”

Bigotry sure is a circle…

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

@Moggie

tau males

Presumably that is the result of being twice a pi male.

NewtonThePlant
NewtonThePlant
2 months ago

Does being a sigma male mean you’re as manly as the sum of all other alpha males?

Xennial Dot Warner
Xennial Dot Warner
2 months ago

Why in the fuck would lesbians primarily be attracted to straight women? That would be completely self-defeating.

Chris Oakley
Chris Oakley
2 months ago

Five minutes with the average MGTOW would have Charles Darwin saying to himself “Y’know, maybe I was wrong about the whole evolution thing.” For real, the instruction manual on my dad’s old VCR made more sense than the nonsense this miggie is spouting.

Last edited 2 months ago by Chris Oakley
Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

@Newtontheplant
That’s what I figured initially, but it appears it means a man who isn’t part of the hierarchy.

@Xennial
I’m guessing they’re projecting. It seems to be common for straight men to fantasize about converting lesbians to heterosexuality, so he assumes that lesbians want to do the reverse.

bcb
bcb
2 months ago

@Allandrel

Re: Sigma Males

I “love” that these Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Omega and now Sigma screeds come from the same people who complain “I can’t keep up with all these made-up genders and pronouns!”

Not to mention “redpilled,” “blackpilled,” and whatever other terms they have.

@Lisa Mullin

Jefferys also thinks lesbians won’t exist in the future as they will no longer be needed when women and men are equal.

Which is extra strange when you consider that a lot of TERs believe that the patriarchy is “biological,” which means women could never possibly be equal to men no matter how hard feminists work (another thing TERs share with MRAs.)

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
2 months ago

Why in the fuck would lesbians primarily be attracted to straight women? That would be completely self-defeating.

Now, in manospherian view, just because your approach to dating women is completely self-defeating, doesn’t mean it’s not valid.

It seems to be common for straight men to fantasize about converting lesbians to heterosexuality, so he assumes that lesbians want to do the reverse.

As for converting straight women to lesbianism, I presume the self-defeating part is that when straight women turn lesbian, they suddenly become masculine and thus unattractive to their fellow lesbians. Hence, the constant desperate need to prey on new straight women. This model also explains how the older generation of lesbians came to being in the first place. Lesbianism is like a pyramid scheme, fueled by the sex appeal of new recruits.

[/snark]

rv97
rv97
2 months ago

@Xennial depending on where you look, some lesbians wish more women were gay. I don’t blame ’em. Their dating pool is already narrow, and some straight women can be really shitty towards lesbians.

Xennial Dot Warner
Xennial Dot Warner
2 months ago

@rv97: As a bi woman? I would draw a distinction between being disappointed that a pretty lady is straight vs. being specifically attracted to women with whom I’d have no chance and might also be bigoted or otherwise hostile. So “entitled straight boys projecting their doomed crushes on lesbians onto sapphic women” seems like a more likely explanation.

rv97
rv97
2 months ago

@Xennial begs the question on how to get guys to be happy to be single without being assholes about it.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 months ago

So, logically: manosphere-ism/MGTOW is the clumsy attempt to make more men bi-curious?

I always suspected it.

Xennial Dot Warner
Xennial Dot Warner
2 months ago

@GSS ex-noob: Doubt it. Remember: they thrive on double standards. Women’s lives are expected to revolve around men, and “rule-breaking” women are despised; but…well, they pride themselves on their lives supposedly not revolving around women. (Right…because centering their lives around hating women for not being Stepford Wives is in no way just an ugly twist on centering their lives around women.)

Abby
Abby
2 months ago

@Policy of Madness A lot of people who would describe themselves as a 1 on the Kinsey scale latch onto to the term bicurious as a label for themselves, because nothing else seems to fit. Because society makes us feel like we must have a label. I realize that a lot of people who use the term don’t use it in that context, leading to miscommunication.

Bina
2 months ago

Migtoes are making my demisexuality take a hard turn for the asexual. AGAIN.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 months ago

@Xennial Dot Warner (great name): Oh, I know that. I just like turning it around to quickly show how completely stupid it is. It probably annoys our occasional passing MGTOWs too.

But if they were truly MGTOW, they’d be hooking up with other men. No need for women at all, like the “political lesbians” that @Lisa Mullin mentioned. They’d be free of all their burdens.

Oh, but they aren’t attracted to men? Have they tried? No? Guess they’re not really GTOW then, are they? Commit to it or STFU, boys.

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

@GSS ex-noob
From my limited knowledge of political lesbians, they didn’t think sex was a requirement, just avoiding sex with men. This is probably why most actual lesbians don’t want them, since for the most part PLs don’t actually have interest in sex with women.

Alan Robertshaw
2 months ago

Hey, Bina’s back!

Nice to see you again. You’re a reminder from the Before Times!

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 months ago

@Naglfar: then the miggies really are the opposite of PLs, except for nobody wants either group?

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@GSS ex-noob, Naglfar – Idk if everyone wouldn’t accept them as lesbians. Lesbian can mean different things to different people, like if someone was asexual but wanting a romantic relationship. But I can see why some might see them as fake.

Also, some people who organize women-only spaces have TERFy ideas, sadly. 9 years ago, my friend (a cis lesbian) told me about pulling out of a writing conference because the organizer was posting about it being only for “women-born women” to exclude trans people. I was thinking, “Hm, that’s a thing?” 🙁

…I mean trans-exclusionary queer groups. “Women-born women” isn’t a thing because people are born as babies, not adults. Hey, TERFs, before you worry about pronouns, get your nouns right.

-Signed, A Grammar SJW 😉

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

@epitome

the organizer was posting about it being only for “women-born women” to exclude trans people. I was thinking, “Hm, that’s a thing?” 🙁

To the best of my knowledge, that term originates with MichFest, a cis women’s only festival that billed itself for “womyn born womyn” and notably had an incident where a teenage trans girl tried to attend and was threatened with rape and death. It seems to be less popular now, most likely because they’ve developed other terms like “natal women” or because the idea of women born women would imply that there could also be women who weren’t “born women.”

As for them not knowing that people aren’t born as adults; well, biology was never their strong suit.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
2 months ago

@Naglfar: that’s how I remember it too. Apparently they didn’t feel that trans women/girls had suffered enough under the patriarchy to “deserve” hanging with the cis AFAB women. (Which we all know is bullshit; “sissy boys” get no respect from the patriarchy either.)

But I have always looked askance at anyone who spells it “womyn”. Trying too hard.

There’s a supportive association of SF/F/H writers called “Broad Universe” who started out as a group for women (thus the pun), and now plainly state they’re for women and non-binary people.

Naglfar
Naglfar
2 months ago

@GSS ex-noob

But I have always looked askance at anyone who spells it “womyn”. Trying too hard.

Same. I also give side eye to “womxn” but for a different reason. Womxn was originally created to be inclusive of trans and non-binary women/femmes, but has mostly had the opposite effect: I’ve only ever seen it used to refer to trans or non-binary women, and therefore it’s just another way of othering, saying we’re not women but “womxn.”