There’s a guy on the incel-centric Black Pill Club forums who posts what he calls a “Daily Femoid Hate Thread.” They’re always bad, but on Monday he really outdid himself with a post on how women are “designed” to be raped.
[citations needed]
He’s not the only incel to feel this way. Someone called ATF replied with this:
Like it or not, rape is the most natural form of sex. If humans were stripped of arbitrary and 100% artificial moral rules and reverted to acting according to our natural drives and instincts, men would all be raping women and girls left and right. Consent wouldn’t exist.
And someone called King of Suifuel Threads took it a step further:
This justifies previous threads I made about Foids..mthey have NO tangible value except for being receptacles we dump our cum into. This society has become extremely cucked and it’s clear we need to revert back to an extreme dictatorship where women are forcibly chained to the wall and raped (in Final Fantasy 7).
This is what they’re teaching each other on these incel forums, just pure hatred.
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Yeah I’m not even gonna try reading any of the OP. Just… nope. Nope nope nope. Nope.
Also fuck evolutionary psychology and its entire pop culture legacy, but mainly just nope.
I spent my adolescence with a serial killer in town (Peter Sutcliffe). So I learned karate.
To begin with, I had to get over my inhibitions about hitting a pad. Yes, a completely inorganic, non-sentient pad.
I’ve never actually need to use it. Over the years I have had three occsions where I thought my luck had finally run out and I was going to have to resort to violence to protect myself. Every time, as soon as I started mental planning (I’ll count down from 10 and when I reach 2 I’ll go for his face and kneecap in rapid succession…) the man who was threatening me abruptly backed off. It’s almost like my eyes glowed red.
So at least partly cultural.
@ Sheila
You a Bradford lass?
Gawd, I remember those days. It was so awful for women; a proper state of siege almost. And the terrible way the police dealt with the case. Remember “Now he’s moved on to attacking innocent women”? Ugh.
But anyway, he’s gone now. So see if you’re in this video.
I don’t really want to know more about this garbage, but I think it’s strange to claim men would just be raping women “left and right” if not for modern society, even though the OP acknowledges that rape used to be seen as a property crime.
Also, I think it was suggested in Morgan’s The Descent of Woman that in our far-off ancestors, the females, being smaller and lacking the males’ bigger canines, would have been the first to start using tools to crack shellfish and such, since they couldn’t use their teeth to do it. Might not take that much to realize you could also crack a skull using the same method if someone done you wrong. (It’s an old book and I don’t know how believable the hypotheses are, but the various misogynists never seem to realize that if they can just come up with any sort of evopsych rationalizations, then so can everyone else.)
@Naglfar
Not that I know, but I assume “dancecel” means an incel who’s been incel’ed because he can’t dance, like some call themselves “heightcel” because they think their problem is their stature.
@Buttercup Q. Skullpants
I’m reminded of one of the elements of Roko’s Basilisk that I find especially laughable:
Basilisk Guy: So the AI, long after you are dead, creates a digital duplicate of your mind, which is completely indistinguishable from you. It’s impossible to tell which is the original and which is the duplicate.
(Time travel is apparently involved, I guess? How else are they testing the long-dead original?)
Me: It’s VERY easy to tell. The original me is a long-dead human. The duplicate is a digital entity.
Basilisk Guy: No, it’s impossible to tell when you use text-based tests only, like the Turing Test.
Me: Ah, I see. It’s impossible to tell the difference so long as you avoid any and all tests that can actually tell the difference.
Here are two squeaky toys! They are completely identical, and it is impossible to tell which is which. Well, so long as the person examining them is blind, and so cannot see that one is red and the other blue. And deaf, so that they cannot hear that one goes SQUEAK and the other goes SQUAWK. And has no sense of smell, so that they cannot smell that one smells like new rubber and one smells like dog saliva.
But so long as your test meets those criteria, they’re completely identical and impossible to tell apart.
Brilliant!
@Some Chick
I expect it’s the common right-wing belief that anyone who doesn’t want to work has a luxury lifestyle funded by the government.
@Masse_mysteria
And, as we discussed in the other thread, there have historically been many ways for a woman to get rid of her husband.
@Some Chick
By investing their life savings into Game Stop?
@Naglfar
Or having to have laws and severe cultural sanctions curtailing the rights out-groups. Or needing two systems of justice, one for wealthy white men and one for everyone else.
It’s kind of like how men are “biologically” more suited to STEM, so long as they can gatekeep and steal work from women and harrass female co-workers until they leave the field. The narrative is always “women just can’t hack it”, not “men who can’t compete if the playing field is level”.
@Buttercup
It’s also present in the typical fascist contradiction of “[insert scapegoat] are simultaneously weak and easily destroyed but also all-powerful and taking over the world.” Or the other fascist contradiction of how white people are supposedly the master race but somehow are being overtaken by everyone else. Incels avoid that one by insisting that they are subhuman, but somehow still believing they are entitled to sex, which is contradictory in a different way.
@Naglfar – “We are the Master Race, put here to lead everyone. But not enough people want us as leaders, so we have to gerrymander and steal elections.”
And then the violence and cheating they have to resort to in order to maintain power becomes, not an admission of their utter failure to persuade hearts and minds, but further evidence of their mastery. And then the violence is not only justified, but righteous, because the world refuses to recognize their greatness and needs to be taught a lesson.
It’s such a disastrous path, for everyone.
… I don’t remember that bit in Final Fantasy 7…
@Masse_Mysteria
IIRC use of spears among chimpanzees seems to have started with female chimps, soooo yeah.
@ cyborgette
I’m judging a mooting competition this weekend. The problem is about animal sentience and personhood for a chimpanzee. In the run up to that we’ve been discussing the ideas (helps if we actually know something about the issue). I mentioned a thing were chimps have been engaging in possible ritual behaviour. They’ve been seen doing interesting things with rocks and trees; and they’ve developed this thing where they throw a rock at the tree for what seems symbolic rather than practical reasons. I demonstrated what I meant; and missed the f***ing tree!
So one up for the chimps there.
Study here for anyone interested. Ties in with what you were just saying.
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep22219
Masse Mysteria wrote:
I think the OP didn’t really question modernity, but rather the very idea of moral and legal constraints. Incidentally, he seems to intuitively assume that the base nature of human being is being a rapist and probably all-around violent asshole.
Could any kind of society full of assholes function without moral rules? Maybe the OP didn’t bother to think that far at all, because he’s just entertaining the fantasy of free rape. Or maybe he reckons that women’s chastity isn’t really needed (in modern society, anyway) because we already let women have sex with whoever they like.
Oh, snap. I gather that Morgan’s ideas were always considered highly speculative (to put it nicely), but at least back in her day you had to convince a publisher to print your thoughts.
@karalora
I don’t know if it as been mentionned before, but ii, but it comes from a “fake study” urban legend that spread in misogynist circles in 2010. You can read the story on rationalwiki if you want.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shame_and_Guilt_in_the_Aftermath_of_Sexual_Attack
@Lumipuna
This seems like they’re projecting a lot. My guess would be that the reason society ever functions is because usually most people aren’t violent assholes, the violent assholes just stick out a lot.
@epronovost
There is regular awful, and there is “makes up a study out of whole cloth to justify rape” awful. Holy shit.
Animal related brain bleach.
https://mymodernmet.com/wild-animals-interrupting-photographers/
@Buttercup
This actually made me chuckle. Thank you!
@Lumipuna
Could be. Though in that case it would seem interesting that he sees the past property crime situation as “fair enough”. Like having unnatural restrictions on your supposed base instincts is really very bad, unless if it’s to protect your stuff from the other beast people or something.
@Sillabub
The thing that I most remember Final Fantasy 7 seems to be a pro-environmentalist message, so I guess there’s something for everyone?
I think the FF7 reference is a common meme used for mocking commenting rules at various edgelord forums. First, you say something that more or less amounts to inciting violence (and might or might not put you at some real risk at getting banned). Then you ironically pretend to cover yourself by adding something like “but only in [name of a videogame]”. I guess more advanced versions of this joke refer to games that aren’t even about violence.
The fact that many species have courtship and the fact that the mother has to want to care for the offspring in order for it to thrive disagrees.
Re: “starfish sex”
I just recently saw this English expression for the first time, and thought it was rather descriptive for the idea it attempts to express: head and limbs sprawled in five directions, like starfish arms. A related term seems to be “pillow queen” for (typically woman) partner who likes a bit too much on being a relaxed vanilla bottom.
I gather these are both typically pejorative (or self-deprecating) terms, though the starfish thing is more of a favorite of misogynist chanlords who strive discuss women as sexual objects. It implies a woman who’s lacking enthusiasm in sex, just barely consenting (or perhaps not even really consenting). It hints of an insult, suggesting that she isn’t going wild (like the women in porn, or something like that) because her current partner isn’t special enough (like Chad). Unlike pillow queen, it doesn’t really acknowledge that some women (or men, for that matter) really like being relaxed bottoms, at least some of the time.
The Finnish equivalent of starfish sex is lahnaseksi, which literally refers to the bream, a European freshwater fish in the carp family. It’s a fairly well known concept that sometimes comes up even outside dank internet subcultures. I just saw some discussion on it at my local kink community site.
Basically, there’s this stereotype that men are unimpressed with women who just lie there passively during sex, even though the default assumption for “sex” is still missionary PIV with the man on top. In my experience (as a Finnish cishet man), it’s quite ambiguous what sexual style exactly constitutes being a “bream” – or rather, what would be the opposite. What exactly are women “supposed” to do during missionary PIV sex? Anecdotally, it seems at least some women do grow up wondering this.
I get that in practical terms, a woman’s total passivity during sex would be a likely warning sign of nonconsent or unhappy consent. The usual consent guideline is that your partner should show at least some enthusiasm for the sex. In the case of a female missionary bottom, she’d likely at least squirm or whimper a little. Some women get really loud in missionary, while some tell you outright they prefer some other position.
Then again, in kink circles we reckon that consent doesn’t need to look enthusiastic if it’s been agreed freely and explicitly. Some people have an unusual sexual response, or personal reasons to perform sex as a chore. Some people want to roleplay non-consent. Generally speaking, either vanilla or kink sex cannot be expected to look any particular way.
@Lumipuna
Yes. Usually the game referenced is Minecraft, though.
re: pillow queen
I have mostly heard this term in wlw contexts to describe a woman who likes to be touched but doesn’t like to reciprocate. I would assume it could also distinguish between a power bottom and a more passive submissive individual.
Speaking of which, sort of weird question: do cishets ever identify themselves with sex role labels like “top,” “bottom,” “switch/vers,” etc? I don’t think I’ve ever heard a straight cis person refer to themself as one of those, but most allo LGBTQ+ people I know identify with one or more of those. Is it just assumed that all straight women are bottoms and all straight men are tops, so they don’t use labels?
I don’t think being submissive equals being a passive bottom?
At least many kinksters do, but likely not others. Personally, I think of top/bottom as situational descriptors rather than a personal identity. Consequently, I don’t really identify as a switch either, though functionally I may be one.
@Lumipuna
True, hence why I included both adjectives (to describe being passive and submissive at the same time).