Categories
anti-Semitism crank magnetism grandiosity roosh v

Roosh V blames The Jews for “most modern evils,” including his own

Roosh and antisemitic writer E. Michael Jones

Two years ago, the infamous pickup artist Roosh Valizadeh announced that he was giving up his life of sinful fornication and getting himself right with God. Or at least right with a right-wing God, whom he apparently met in person after taking a megadose of ‘shrooms. (No, I’m not kidding.)

Now, instead of penning rapey pickup manuals, he writes posts on his blog with titles like “I Lived Most of My Life Under Demonic Influence,” “There is No Identity Without Christ,” and (somewhat unexpectedly) “Why I Don’t Trust American Dentists.”

Guess who else he doesn’t trust? The Jews.

Roosh has hated on Jews for a while now, and at one point he even got one of his tweets banned in France for promoting an antisemitic ASMR video. But he’s now getting serious about his antisemitism, blaming Jews for “most modern evils” from fornication to the Reformation.

In a recent post, Roosh reviews a book called “The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit” by a Catholic writer named E. Michael Jones, described by the Anti-Defamation League as a man “obsess[ed]” with “the damage that he believes Jews are inflicting on the Catholic Church and western civilization.”

Roosh’s book review — basically a series of long quotes from Jones’ book interspersed with relatively brief bits of editorializing from Roosh — blames Jews for everything from the Russian revolution to internet porn, and even for Roosh’s own fornication-heavy previous life.

If you decide to turn away from God, there will be a Jew to catch you with one of his degenerate movements, pseudo-intellectual ideologies, or money-making schemes. I fell for the Jewish trick of sexual liberation and paid dearly for it. Many others fall for greed, cosmopolitan living, new atheism, pornography, or the self-glorification that comes from Jewish-run social networking and dating apps. I must conclude that Jews are God’s punishment to those with weak faith. If you stray too far from God, you in essence become a Jew.

(Emphasis mine.)

In another section of the review, Roosh declares that:

Once you learn how to recognize Jewish names and physiognomy, it doesn’t take long to see that just about every moral degradation under the sun is spearheaded by Jews. There are certainly gentiles involved in such movements, but if Jews were wholly absent, many social revolutions and degeneracies would simply not exist.

There are a lot of similar proclamations in Roosh’s post. We “learn,” among other things, that:

Jews hate manual labor. … Unless you do manual labor, it could be argued that you are Jewish in character. …

In a society without tradition, rootless Jews can flourish. Their very first task when parasitizing a new nation is to break down the traditional order …

While many men have fantasies about defeating Jews or ridding them from the land, understand that they would never have gained power in the first place if people stayed close to God. Without faith, a man will not be able to resist the traps that the Jews set out for him, so the solution to constrain the Jew becomes a personal and then societal decision of faith.

Roosh is really cranking the antisemitism up to eleven.

Couldn’t he have found a God who was somewhat less of an asshole?

Follow me on Twitter.

Send tips to dfutrelle at gmail dot com.

We Hunted the Mammoth relies entirely on readers like you for its survival. If you appreciate our work, please send a few bucks our way! Thanks!

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

102 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 month ago

@Naglfar – Yeah, most people come away from a drug trip with a sense of interconnectedness and love for all beings. Roosh didn’t get that memo. After his conversion, he never once expressed remorse for all the women he manipulated, used, and outright raped. He only took down the Bang guides because they didn’t fit with his rebranding as spiritual authority. He disavowed them because they were damaging to men, but never said one word about how damaging they were to women. It’s clear he still holds women in contempt and regards them as obstacles. Whatever wisdom he received from the shrooms was very, very limited. Just enough to make him even more insufferable.

Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
1 month ago

I think Roosh has created his God in his own image.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
1 month ago

@Buttercup:

Yeah, most people come away from a drug trip with a sense of interconnectedness and love for all beings. Roosh didn’t get that memo.

I wonder if this is actually a viable test for psychopathy. (Disclaimer: Not claiming that Doosh necessarily is one. It would take a scientific study to test the hypothesis, with qualified psychs to diagnose the study subjects.)

… anyone else finding the new(ish) placement of the comment form persistently irritating? Middle of the page where you can’t just control-end or biiig-swipe to the bottom to get to it? Also when quoting the most recent comment, a common case, they’re not adjacent, and in fact maximally far apart without putting the form at the top, where control-home would make it easy to find. So it’s a big scroll-and-scan to get to it with each separate snippet you’re copying and pasting …

You almost couldn’t find a worse placement for it if you intentionally tried. It’s the least easy thing about the site redesign to get used to, IMO.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Surplus
I agree re: the comment box, I remember when the new layout was implemented I asked if the box could be moved back to where it was, but apparently not.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
1 month ago

Just discovered something startling: there’s a fairly recent, fairly popular movie where about half the characters are trans, and probably most people who’ve seen it haven’t realized this.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

@Surplus

Please do tell?! I might want to watch it. 🙂

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Surplus
What is it?

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 month ago

The comment box placement is confusing to me too, and I’ve only been here since it was that way, so it’s not like I’m complaining about “the good old days”.

@Surplus: don’t keep us in suspense any longer!

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
1 month ago

RE: comment box. What I find really weird is that when you post a new comment, it appears at the top, before the comments that came before. And then you reload and it moves to the bottom.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

I’d add my vote to putting the comments box below the last comment. It can get a bit fiddly scrolling up and down to cut and paste quotations.

Also, by the time I get up to the comments box, I’ve usually forgotten who I’m responding too and what I was actually going to say.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

I would agree that I’d prefer to move the comment box to the bottom, but I asked David back when we got the new layout and he said it wasn’t possible. Maybe there is a way that we just don’t know?

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

The comment box at the bottom would be a lot better but I do like the dark mode option for this site. It’s better for me and makes it less likely to have a seizure

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
1 month ago

Even the producers probably didn’t intend the implications.

The movie is “Bee Movie”. Most of the characters are worker bees, complete with stingers — which makes them AFAB. Yet half appear to identify as masculine — presenting masculine in voice, being referred to with masculine pronouns, and so forth. The only logical inference is that roughly half the bee characters are trans men!

tim gueguen
1 month ago

Doosh heading in the antisemitic direction isn’t a surprise. It’s an all too common path for those who get drawn into conspiracy theories, assuming of course the conspiracy theory they’re draw into isn’t antisemitic in the first place.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 month ago

@Surplus: d’oh!

What about the two Ant movies? Don’t some ants have the same type of breeding/gender deal?

Dalillama
1 month ago

@tim gueguen

assuming of course the conspiracy theory they’re draw into isn’t antisemitic in the first place.

All conspiracy theories are antisemitic in the first place.

Re: Unintended trans characters, the cartoon Regular Show features a protagonist who’s a her male anthropomorphic bluejay. His romantic interest is a lady cardinal with red plumage and a crest. When fans pointed out to the showrunners that only AMAB cardinals are red and crested, they said they hadn’t know that, but agreed that clearly she must be trans, so that’s canon now.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Surplus
I’ve seen that movie (though it’s been a while) but never really thought of it that way. A movie that I have seen discussed as having significant numbers of trans characters is Jurassic Park, and in that case it appears to be deliberate. The scientists originally announce that all the dinosaurs on the island are AFAB, but it is later revealed that the frog DNA spliced in allowed them to become male.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ naglfar

There’s also the bit with the helicopter seatbelt. Malcolm, somehow, ends up with two female catches; but he still manages to splice them together to make it work. Nice bit of foreshadowing.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@Naglfar – This made me laugh:

Are you maybe thinking of The Satanic Temple? They’re the ones who performed a pink mass to make Fred Phelps’s mothers ghost gay

Not that it’s nice to mock someone about a dead relative. But it’s just so ridiculous and over-the-top (and the Temple seems to have chosen a deserving target).

Oh yes, thanks for the other article linked. I forgot that I commented on it (it was 5 years ago).

I just hope I wasn’t conflating those guys’ hatred for Middle Eastern people and/or Muslims with something Roosh himself said. I mean, he’s said a lot of awful shit, but I don’t want to misrepresent people.

Roosh Nostalgia Moment (I know, that sounds weird): About 5 years ago, I went to a demonstration against his antifeminism and “joking” rape advocacy, since he was leading some meetup in Montreal. And that night, a woman he tried picking up at a bar recognized him and spilled beer on his head. (I didn’t see that, but much fun was made of it on WHTM since Roosh was extremely whiny about it.)

@Surplus – I like your logic 🙂

Reminds me too of Gary Larson, The Far Side cartoonist, who mentioned getting a lot mail correcting him for a cartoon where the “husband” mosquito comes home to his “wife” and says something like, “Tough day at work, I must have infected half the city.” Their nitpick was that only the female mosquitos bite. Larson wrote, “But it’s perfectly fine that the mosquitos wear clothes, speak English, etc.” [again, paraphrased]

(Actually, he was probably embarrassed, too – he liked to be scientifically accurate.)

Last edited 1 month ago by epitome of incomrepehensibility
Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 month ago

@epitome of incomrepehensibility

(Actually, he was probably embarrassed, too – he liked to be scientifically accurate.)

Yeah, he probably was, especially considering his environmentalist work.

Have you read There’s a Hair in my Dirt!: A Worm’s Story by any chance? Larson very obviously had no love for those who were all for protecting only the cute animals and who didn’t understand how things actually worked…

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 month ago

That’s an excellent observation about Bee Movie. Reminds me that all the ostrich ballerinas (that is, they are presented as ballerinas) in Fantasia are male (although as there is no dialogue we don’t know their pronouns). And yes, this must also apply to the all-female worker ants in Antz. Not sure about the characters in A Bug’s Life?

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

The analogy have its limit tho. Or rather, question what you think define a gender. Bee workers are the typical example of something I would define as agender (and asexual). On the other hand, their roles as caretakers of their sisters *is* traditionaly within the feminine roles. They go on more “traditional” masculine jobs like foraging later in their life cycle.

Bees also have the thing that biological males and females are *wildly* different, including having only a single set of chromosomes for the males. Maybe it’s overthinking it, but you could describe them as having three sex (queen, worker, males), and describe the subcategory of workers as separate gender, since it’s not physical but influe a lot on their behavior and expectations.

(I am talking of traditional western gender roles. I am well aware that in actual reality, they varied a lot, and there have been plenty of warrior and forager women)

Chris Oakley
Chris Oakley
1 month ago

@Katherine the Adequate: The next time Roosh V says something that makes sense will be the first time. His worldview has all the consistency of melted chocolate. If I were the gambling type I’d bet even money that this time next year he’ll be identifying as a Marxist. That guy changes his persona more often than I change the liner in my wastebasket(and I change my wastebasket liner every other day).

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@Jenora Feuer:

Have you read There’s a Hair in my Dirt!: A Worm’s Story by any chance?

No, but it looks like fun, thanks!

I got my anecdote from A Prehistory of the Far Side (which also has a story of how the captions of two of his cartoons were switched with Family Circus ones, with surreal results)

Last edited 1 month ago by epitome of incomrepehensibility
Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 month ago

@epitome of incomprehensibility:
Oh, it was fun, yes. I especially liked the page about the human Harriet talking about how romantic the birdsong was… followed by seeing the translations, in which most of the birdsong translated as stuff like ‘MY nest, stay away!’ and various birds cussing each other out.

As I said, Larson obviously really didn’t like people who overly romanticized nature. There’s a reason the story is told from the point of the worms, one of the lowest parts of the food chain but also a part without which a lot of modern plant life wouldn’t be anywhere near as viable…

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Chris Oakley
I can’t really see Roosh being a Marxist, because that would mean he’d have to care about someone who isn’t him.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

Bad news: Parler is back up, now hosted by Epik: the home of incels.co and Gab.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
1 month ago

That weirdly dressed QAnon guy who was part of the failed coup attempt has been arrested:

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/man-pelosi-lectern-qanon-shaman-arrested-capitol-1112191/

I wonder how long until they’re *all* arrested? After all, as they themselves say …

comment image

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

Speaking of Judaism, and following on from our discussion about religious history, some folks might find this of interest.

https://nlisrael.typeform.com/to/RdsY3ZNS

It’s a talk about the interface between Judaism and Zoroastrianism.

I’ve already submitted a naive question about the three wise men.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

I have a lot of love for zoroastrism because one of the nation I like in a videogame about ancient cultures clashing are zoroastrist birdmen. It’s not terribly hard to draw at least some comparisons with judaism, altho they are likely more superficial than I think.

While that might be a misconception, I had the feeling that old text in the bible are less monotheistic and less manichean than the newer one. In the old testament, the Pharaoh give strong vibes of being supported by third party deities that just aren’t as powerful as the god of the jewish ; meanwhile during the new testament the evil peoples are much more cartoonishly evil and visibly on the side of Satan and there’s neither mentions nor hint of a third force.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ ohlmann

Me too; so I’m really looking for forward to this.

I am hoping they will address just how much cross pollination there was between the two faiths. There’s also the historical thing of how the OT was composed. There is a theory it was ‘commissioned’ by the Persian government. So maybe they’ll address that too.

As for you point about other gods, it seems that was the common belief at the time. It was just a matter of which god was best. The OT though is full of references that seem to accept their are other deities; they’re just not as good as YWHY/Elohim*.

But the first commandment is ‘Thou shall have no other gods before me’. It prohibits worship, not belief. So it’s more establishing the hierarchy. The religious language used tallies with the secular proclamations of kings. In other words; there may be other kings or pretenders** vying for my throne; but I’m top dog.

Although Maimonides did argue the interpretation was that no other gods actually existed. He knows a lot more about the Torah than me, so I’d be tempted to defer. But the fact it was something he felt the need to comment on shows the common belief at the time.

* whilst YHWH was definitely meant to be a single god, there’s debate as to whether Elohim was plural; and the OT uses various traditions as source material.

** as in the claimant to the throne sense, not that they weren’t real.

Last edited 1 month ago by Alan Robertshaw
Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Alan Robertshaw

As for you point about other gods, it seems that was the common belief at the time. It was just a matter of which god was best. The OT though is full of references that seem to accept their are other deities; they’re just not as good as YWHY/Elohim*.

One of the reasons I tend to lean towards the theory that multiple different people wrote the OT over a period of centuries is that it used various different names for God. Elohim is used in some sections, while others use YHWH or Adonai, which would imply a shift in beliefs over time as the people moved from a polytheistic belief system in which Adonai was king of the gods or the most powerful one, to a system with only one god.

Proponents of the “Ancient Aliens” conspiracy theories tend to believe that Elohim refers to a race of aliens which created the world, a theory which I do not endorse for obvious reasons.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ naglfar

the theory that multiple different people wrote the OT over a period of centuries

I think that’s generally accepted now. The discussion centres around the actual sources of material. Bit like the gospels thing. But this seems to be the consensus for the time being.

comment image

would imply a shift in beliefs over time as the people moved from a polytheistic belief system in which Adonai was king of the gods or the most powerful one, to a system with only one god.

Again, that seems to be the accepted theory. Although God later does a retcon and says the other gods were all actually him all along.

https://biblehub.com/exodus/6-3.htm

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

today I met one of my new professors and we talked about the weather cause I was outside. I tried to say “it’s a tab bit nippy out here” but what came out was “it’s a tit bit nipply out here”. Didn’t help that my own nipples could cut diamonds at the moment and I wasn’t wearing a bra. I need to just burry myself now.

Robert
Robert
1 month ago

I would say that anti-Semitism is the last refuge of the incompetent, but its
often among the first.

It has to be the laziest form of bigotry around.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
1 month ago

@Surplus: that cartoon brought back memories of many happy gaming hours. “Oooh NOOO!” *explosion* MAGAts aren’t at all cute, though.

@Naglfar: I guess it’ll make it easier for Biden’s FBI to keep an eye on them all?

@Lainy: At least he’ll remember you? I started my first day in college by literally having the desk fall over with me in it. As freshmen generally had the same students in each class, I was the one who suddenly had about 30 people I saw all day making desk jokes.

And of course Freddie Mercury was born into a Zoroastrian family.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

@GSS

My professor is a woman.

Chris Oakley
Chris Oakley
1 month ago

@Robert: If anti-Semitism is the first refuge of the incompetent, racism is a VERY close second.

Last edited 1 month ago by Chris Oakley
Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
1 month ago

I, for one, am not surprised that monotheistic beliefs did not, as it were, spring, fully formed, from the brow of Zeus. As for the origins of the OT, might I venture an hypothesis of my own?

It’s an early attempt to create an encyclopedia.

Hence compiling a bunch of writings together, and the subject matters covered: the then-current creation beliefs, a capsule summary of the histories of the peoples in the region, treatises on law and moral philosophy, assorted adages and folk tales contemporary to the area, documentation of royal genealogies, commentaries on all of the above, and so on, and so forth.

Someone made an effort to document beliefs and practices throughout the to-them-known world, and compile everything they felt sufficiently important into a single combined work that would serve as a useful reference guide for any educated person. This effort likely included committing to writing heretofore only-oral traditions in some cases.

This hypothesis explains some of the peculiarities, too, for example that Genesis contains two slightly different creation stories in which the various plants and animals and such are created in a different order, but which are very similar to one another in broad strokes. These might have been the creation myths of two tribes living close by to each other, which had mutated somewhat from a fairly recent common ancestor, and which were finally given written documentation, side-by-side, by some anthropologist of the time.

Then the exact purpose and origins of the compilation were forgotten — probably also a gradual process — until it ossified into a holy book, the reference guide becoming increasingly the be-all-end-all first and final word on many topics, likely during one of history’s many periods of contraction, strife, and anti-intellectualism (an obvious candidate would be the big Bronze Age Collapse, or maybe an earlier collapse in Egypt).

Of course, history churns ever on and then we got newer schisms, books added or removed, controversies over what to include, and the like (as is well-attested with the early Church and the New Testament in the first centuries CE). Two of the results of such things would then be the Jewish Torah and the Christian Old Testament. Most likely there’s a subset that could be called the “Really Really Old Testament” that includes Genesis and predates Moses, perhaps an encyclopedia used by Egyptian scholars of a Jewish bent circa 1600 BCE, and then volumes added during/after the Exodus, including, obviously, Exodus itself but also Daniel and some others. (Non-Jewish Egyptian scholars had their own books documenting the majority beliefs, such as the Pyramid Texts. Egyptian Jews would quite logically have wanted documentation of their own to help sustain their own way of life and of understanding the world, and their own history. Think majority, white-Christian-centric texts in a present-day American university, and then the books assigned in Black, Indiginous, Ethnic, or etc. Studies classes, except 3600 years ago.) A trauma happened, during which there was a schism of the society and a large exodus of the Jewish minority. The descriptions point to a natural disaster as the precipitating incident, for which the Thera supereruption is the obvious candidate given the time-frame. It likely accelerated a structural-demographic crisis in Egypt at the time, as they lost a key trading partner (Minoan Crete) and experienced agricultural difficulties. Most likely, some sort of proto-Nazis gained political power and instituted pogroms, as often seems to happen during economic contractions. Jews fled or were expelled from the collapsing “Weimar Egypt” in increasing numbers, and hence the tales of Exodus. Passover seems to be related to a pogrom carried out around the relevant time.

I will of course accept any insights or corrections from Jewish members of this site. No disrespect to their beliefs or faith is intended here, only intellectual curiosity about the origins of the Old Testament and Torah.

One thing I will say is that the present-day versions of the Jewish holy books seem to be among the most useful instances of the holy-book genre. Full of debate as much as prescription, and weighted toward pragmatic advice and time-tested sets of laws and norms. Well, except for all the anti-gay stuff in Leviticus, anyway. I get the distinct impression of a more intellectual-friendly thing with the Talmud and Torah than with the Christian bible, where questioning anything is likely to be taken as blasphemy and the answer to pretty much any question asked in a Bible school setting is “just because”, or “God says so, that’s why”, or similarly, and thinking seems to be distinctly disdained if not downright treated as a gateway drug to heresy. Some of this may stem also from the apparent emphasis in Judaism on practice, versus the emphasis in Christianity on purity of belief. A lot might stem from Judaism having had several thousand more years to mature. That much history perhaps wears the rough edges down and cleaves off the least pragmatic aspects of such a text, until a smooth pebble remains that is as insusceptible to nature’s disproofs as to human critics. The lack of doomsday predictions, for example — those are extremely susceptible to nature’s disproofs, when the appointed hour comes and goes and it’s just business as usual.

This of course suggests that the last book of the New Testament will likely be outlived by much of the rest of it, given a couple thousand more years. Scholars of the 4020s might well be familiar with the Gospels and the Epistles but not even have heard of Revelation, while their contemporary Torahs look very much like a 2020s instance, once one of those is translated of course. Languages change a lot in that kind of time, unless they become fossilized like Latin was — admittedly, not a particularly improbable fate for Hebrew, or any other language with important works written in it. Or has this already happened to Hebrew, and the language for day-to-day matters that necessarily evolves and changes is Yiddish, when local majority languages like English are not being used instead? Again I know less than I probably should about the lives of contemporary Jews. But this would be an analogous situation to that of the Catholics, who still use Latin in religious ceremonial and scholarship functions, but not in day-to-day secular or even religious life, so again, not at all implausible either in the present or, at least, the future.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

As far as I know, christians (and muslim) are very very prone to call everything a blasphemy and a heresy, but the books themselves don’t actually help with that. The new testament is from my amateur perspectives two type of story, with a lot that are in both category :

  • fantastic account of Jesus the Superhero and his sidekicks that help people and defeat evil. (the most outrageous one have been deemed “non-canon”, before christians were the first to retcon part of their mythos, fandom invented nothing)
  • wisdom parable, most of them on the theme of “don’t be a dickhead”. Like don’t be greedy, turn the other cheek, or in general be excellent to each other without expecting an immediate reward.

However, christianism is a lot more than the bible. It’s a big calcified set of haphazard guess and interpretations, and *theses* are the one you get yelled at if you don’t follow.

For example, a big source of conflict in early christianity was about the nature of god and jesus, and now questioning that is a good way to get yourself labelled an heretic. But that’s not in the bible. The internal strife within early church is probably *why* they insist that much on a particular interpretation TBH.

Also, the idea that jewish are in general more tolerant for heresy is probably also an optical illusion. Regular jewish and regular christians are a lot more tolerant about discussing interpretations than their fanatic version (respectively orthodox judaism and the Barbarin strain of french catholicism in my experience), and both have inspired their strain of far right authoritarism.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Surplus
Re: Exodus, the prevailing theory I’ve heard is that the exodus is fictional, since the Egyptians kept detailed records and there is no evidence of Jewish slaves, or indeed any Jews, in Egypt until centuries after the book was written. Instead a common line of thought is that the exodus narrative was created to offer hope to Jews living under persecution elsewhere, in the sense of “we survived once before, so we can survive again.”

Well, except for all the anti-gay stuff in Leviticus, anyway.

Regarding that bit, there is also a school of thought which suggests that it is prohibiting rape or pedophilia.

I get the distinct impression of a more intellectual-friendly thing with the Talmud and Torah than with the Christian bible, where questioning anything is likely to be taken as blasphemy and the answer to pretty much any question asked in a Bible school setting is “just because”, or “God says so, that’s why”, or similarly, and thinking seems to be distinctly disdained if not downright treated as a gateway drug to heresy.

Indeed, this is a major difference between Judaism and most sects of Christianity. As a result, there are centuries worth of written records of arguments and commentary from scholars.

Or has this already happened to Hebrew, and the language for day-to-day matters that necessarily evolves and changes is Yiddish, when local majority languages like English are not being used instead?

You’re sort of right. Hebrew has somewhat fossilized, as it was a solely liturgical language for thousands of years before a revival and modernization in the early 20th century. However, unlike other languages which have taken lots of loanwords, Hebrew, much like Icelandic, has a council which creates new words for modern concepts based on historic roots. So modern Hebrew, again like modern Icelandic, is quite similar to the historic variant in a way that is not true for English or many other contemporary languages.

Yiddish is not widely used anymore except in certain Orthodox communities, and as a result is considered an endangered language. It primarily was used by Ashkenazi Jews in Europe a few centuries ago as a lingua franca for Jews from different regions to communicate. It’s most closely related to German, but with some words borrowed from Aramaic and Slavic languages. However, now that Hebrew has been revived as a language for daily use, Yiddish is much less common. I don’t speak Yiddish and as a result don’t know how modern or antiquated it currently is.

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
1 month ago

@Naglfer,

I’ve been listening to Great Courses lectures on the Dead Sea Scrolls and now I’m moving on to lectures about archaeology in the ‘Holy Land’, another lecture series on understanding the old testament and another on the history of Judaism. I really need to understand where three of the worlds religions come from, so once I’ve covered Judaism I’m moving on to early Christianity and eventually Islam. Maybe, if I learn enough I can understand what all the arguing is about. They all worship the same god, they all arose in the same place and to a certain extent they share the same principles, prophets and pasts. I just don’t get what the arguing is about, either intra or inter-faith, is YHWH a dick who likes setting his worshippers against each other for funsies? Or are humans just arseholes? I’m going for both at this point in time.

Also, @whoever brought up ‘folkish’ Heathens – sorry brain frazzled – those gits give us all a bad name; luckily in the UK we tend to give them the side-eye and the big Heathen groups – UK Heathenry and Asatru UK – explicitly state bigotry is not acceptable. There’s an Odinist temple near me (relatively) and the Kindred I sometimes associate with refuses to have anything to do with them after they refused to allow a black member into the temple. Occasionally, when the Kindred has moots in Newark, the twits from the Temple try to crash the moot, but they are firmly escorted out of the pub if they act up, so I’m told. Due to my terrible anxiety in 2019 and the pandemic, I’ve yet to go to a moot; I look forward to seeing a ‘folkish’ Heathen being chucked out on his ear once I do.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 month ago

@Naglfar:

Hebrew, much like Icelandic, has a council which creates new words for modern concepts based on historic roots.

French has something similar in l’Académie Française, and it seems like ‘not using the English word’ can be one of their principles. Which is why, despite the fact that ‘computer’ is derived from the Middle French/Late Latin ‘computāre’, the Modern French word for a computer is ‘ordinateur’, and the word ‘computeur’ is reserved for a person whose job it is to perform computations. (Which, of course, is also an older meaning for the word ‘computer’ in English.)

Yiddish is […] most closely related to German, but with some words borrowed from Aramaic and Slavic languages.

The understanding I had was that Yiddish started off as pretty much ‘Hebrew but using the German phonemes’ and that part of its purpose was maintaining their distinct language, while at the same time keeping their heads down by speaking in a language that would sound enough like German as to ‘pass’ for someone who wasn’t listening closely. Especially as this would have started before the unification of the German language (which wasn’t until Gutenberg’s time), and hearing something that sounded like German but wasn’t the German you grew up with wouldn’t have been unusual.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Jenora
That maybe how it originated, but contemporary Yiddish has much more in common with German. They’re more or less mutually intelligible, but Yiddish uses a modified Hebrew alphabet instead of the German alphabet.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

@Lainy – One of my profs said “orgasm” when he meant “organism”! He was teaching intro to psych, so he was like, “I wonder what Freud would’ve thought…” 😛

Yiddish is interesting. It’s classified as a West Germanic language along with German, Dutch, and English, but a lot of words are Slavic or Hebrew in origin. I guess the grammar is more like German (I don’t know Yiddish apart from a few words and I’m just on my 2nd German class) but not exclusively; e.g. some nouns have the plural ending -im, which is from Hebrew.

(And of course language “family trees” don’t tell the full story, because there’s usually a lot of borrowing. There’s a cool thing in historical linguistics where people are using software to create language “networks” which can show whether languages are related more like trees or webs.)

Elaine The Witch
Elaine The Witch
1 month ago

@Epitome

Yeah, word flops like to be very cruel to me. My husband can speak perfect with no trouble it seems. it’s stupidly unfair. Except when we were reading our vows to each other, he did mess up a little bit then.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ naglfar

You still hear a fair bit of Yiddish in some parts of London. Stamford Hill especially. There’s a big orthodox community round there. Who for some reason all drive old Volvos. (I asked a shopkeeper about that and he said “They’re good cars.” Fair enough.)

A lot of Yiddish words have also found their way into London dialect.

‘Hebrew but using the German phonemes’ 

I’m a big fan of the Vindolanda Letters. They provide some examples where people are writing Celtic words but using the Latin alphabet. I wonder what the chatter was like around Roman places in Britain. With people from all over the empire, I imagine it sounded like second century Bladerunner.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

@Alan, re: old Volvos

Contrary to the stereotypes about Jews and wealth and all that, IME using things until they break is a Jewish tradition. As are dumpster diving, repairing things, and cooking amazing dishes with leftovers.

Many of us may be middle class now, but our culture remembers the ghettos.

Anyway yes, old Volvos are good cars, and can be driven for a very long time before they fail. 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by Cyborgette
Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ cyborgette

Anyway yes, old Volvos are good cars, and can be driven for a very long time before they fail. 

Oh I totally approve! That’s very much my attitude too.

I really like Stamford Hill. I lived just down the road in Hoxton; so it was a handy place to go shopping for interesting foodstuffs.

I did some Googling for you, and I found this!