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MAGA mob shuts down Capitol: Open Thread

Inside the Capitol building

I‘d say “unbelievable,” but unfortunately this is all too believable.

Discuss. Post information. This is a dark day for democracy in America.

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Lainy
Lainy
3 months ago

I’m still wondering how people don’t think Donald trump is a rapist. This show you how violent this man gets when he’s told no.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
3 months ago

It looks like the coup has failed for now. I guess the sedition caucus didn’t expect to have to actually face the angry mob personally. Not sure what they did expect, but it apparently wasn’t that.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 months ago

As if on cue, we already have some Democrats talking about “turning the page” and “moving on”.

I am so fucking scared. If these scumbags do not face consequences, the violence will only keep escalating.

Last edited 3 months ago by Cyborgette
Crip Dyke
3 months ago

@Cyborgette:

Absolutely.

You can’t move on without justice. “No justice, no peace. Know justice, know peace,” isn’t just a slogan. It really does accurately depict how the world works.

If we don’t prosecute Trump and his mob, we’re not going to have peace for a long time. (Of course such a prosecution isn’t sufficient to create peace, but it is necessary for peace to exist.)

Crip Dyke
3 months ago

@Sarity

If they don’t remove this fuckmuppet from office post haste, they can COUNT on more of this happening. It’s well known that Donnie is a vindictive retaliatory loser when he doesn’t get his way. 

This also, too.

I’ve been writing about this on my blog, but the basic message is that even if he can’t get the cooperation of aides or assistants or the military, he can do a ton of damage to the government with just a pen & something to write on. And some of the worst things he can do wouldn’t take more than a minute.

The US literally cannot risk having him in office another hour.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Naglfar
Re: terrible leftist takes.

I noticed Brendan O’neill simply assumed that there were no bewildered people at the Reichstag fire, amd they did not have the courage to directly engage with descriptions of fascist behavior.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Mean
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Mean
3 months ago

Would anyone here be surprised that at least one of the rioters yesterday received a $9300 Paycheck Protection Program loan to keep his independent business afloat during the pandemic last year?

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/letter-guy-pelosi-ppp-loan/?utm_medium=%20NYNzA&utm_source=liqsoc&lsid=dtwnti4oq&fbclid=IwAR3z3_aPji_X7kvdjvQO8wje70-r2NC1NO2GAIpj_p1AiQ0te86TbD2sxyQ

Socialism only when it benefits me; never when it benefits just thee?

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
3 months ago

@Redsilkphoenix: I don’t know if Naomi Klein came up the phrase but her “socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor” is frequently applicable.

Syster
Syster
3 months ago

In 1989, I watched the Fall of the Berlin Wall. I knew right then and there that it was the end of the cold war and signaled the impending demise of the USSR as a super power. Yesterday, I watched the assault on the Capitol and I knew right then that it signaled the impending demise of the USA as a super power. The USA may survive as a country, but instead of being the “shining city on the hill”, it will now be seen as the “collapsing ruins on the hill”.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Syster

The USA may survive as a country, but instead of being the “shining city on the hill”, it will now be seen as the “collapsing ruins on the hill”.

The main reason this worries me is geopolitical: the dominant superpower changed from the UK to the US in the first half of the 20th century, and that interregnum had two world wars. Given that nuclear weapons did not exist for most of that time but do exist now, it’s frightening to think about the upcoming interregnum between the era of American dominance and the next superpower (likely China or Russia).

Steph
Steph
3 months ago

@Brony

Is Brendan O’Neill really a leftist though? I mean he likes to say that but he does a phenomenal job of parroting every single Right wing talking point there is?

His calling himself of the Left reminds me of Cristina Hoff Summers insisting she is a feminist.

Steph
Steph
3 months ago

@Nafalgar

Gosh I despise O’Neill. He is a contrarian tosspot who needs to stop pretending that he is in anyway left wing.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
3 months ago

The writing’s been on the wall for Pax Americana since well before Trump was elected, let alone last night.

The coming interregnum worries me for the same reasons. However I have my doubts whether it will be China, let alone Russia, who becomes dominant afterward. In the 1920s if you’d asked people who realized the British Empire was in decline who would take over the role next, most would have bet you a million bucks it would be either Germany or France and very few would have said “the United States”. And those would have heard, in immediate response, someone say “that backwater?! Are ye daft?”

It’s likely to be someone who has been modernizing rapidly recently, but from outside the club of current movers-and-shakers, all of whom will be badly damaged by the fall of the US and disruption of the existing systems, from supply chains to financial webs to geopolitical alignments, upon which they’ve grown to some degree dependent. So look for a “third world” country with significant recent economic growth and infrastructural (including social infrastructure) modernization who isn’t considered an almost-first-world country yet. India is a dark horse candidate but it probably won’t be a BRICS country for the reasons outlined. I’d put forth a South American country not named “Brazil” as one batch of solid candidates, and some of the better developed sub-Saharan African countries not named “South Africa” as a second — Nigeria has gotten big enough to have its own “ollywood” variant, and has resources (oil).

The major Muslim states in the MENA region are mostly out, because of their extensive entanglements with the existing finance/trade/etc. web. Most of those are going down hard in the next decade or two. Saudi Arabia’s implosion promises to be spectacular: the declining productivity of its oil fields, the breakdown of the existing system (especially the petrodollar), and the likelihood of it being caught in the middle of future conflicts like a teddy bear in the grip of two competing terriers, combine to guarantee at minimum a severe case of state financial insolvency in its near future, and once they can no longer pay for bread and circuses for the rank-and-file, that decadent royal family of theirs will find itself swinging from lampposts faster than you can say “let them eat cake”. It could be hard-line Communists but will probably be far-right jihadists who end up running the place, if it doesn’t go the more typical poor-middle-East-country route of “civil war without end” instead, with MBS-loyalists-vs-jihadists-plus-assorted-foreign-opportunist-backed-factions leading to it becoming a mirror image of Syria.

A peripheral, oil-less MENA state is a possibility if it pivots early to the likely reality of the mid-to-late 21st century. Look for someone (Egypt? Tunisia? Morocco, even?) who isn’t currently a regional mover-and-shaker to start investing heavily in solar power and desalination plants, and going increasingly secular-liberal in politics. If one of them does that, they have a chance.

The other crop of candidates would be northeastern European backwaters with a rugged independence from recent buffeting and instability. So, former Soviet states not currently in Russia’s orbit, and minor EU member states who are well equipped to avoid economic collapse if the EU goes down or gives them the boot. This bunch includes the likes of Finland and Estonia.

Look especially for innovation, and an overall orientation to the future rather than the past. That criterion increasingly disqualifies most of the current “western nations” and arguably China, where reactionary elements seem to be ascending, based on recent events in Hong Kong (and which has a giant target painted on its back during the interregnum, besides). It absolutely disqualifies the other BRICS nations, all of which have definitely got reactionary, pastward-looking political forces in ascendance right now. The successor empire’s nucleus will have some reactionary elements, but will have a sizable and viable progressive movement and a business scene with entrepreneurs challenging, sometimes successfully, whatever large incumbent businesses exist locally. It will be characterized by a creative sort of internal tumult, rather than the destructive sort that dominates the US of late, or a trend to increasing ossification, like late-20th-century America and the present-day EU, Japan, Australia, and so forth.

Like the US of the 1920s, it will be on the periphery of the world trade infrastructure rather than in the thick of it, and it will be in a dynamic, innovative phase of scientific, technical, and industrial development, and it will not likely be a tiny little thing with little in the way of domestic resources and population (which eliminates the likes of Iceland and New Zealand, and probably Finland). Innovation will be in fields about to become hugely important: in 1920s America, that was mechanization of transport and agriculture; now, that will be green energy, biotechnology, and everything cyber.

One last thing to look for is for a country that is currently, or soon becomes, the sink for a brain drain. The US shortly before its ascendancy was attracting the likes of Turing, von Braun, and Einstein. Where are smart people moving to these days, outside of the existing major economies? If Nigeria, or Estonia, or Morocco, or Peru, or someplace else at about that tier of perceived-nation-state-importance is, or starts, becoming a surprisingly big destination for entrepreneurs and scientists, then that’s likely to be the one.

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Surplus
One country you didn’t mention but that might have a chance is Kazakhstan. They are more developed than most of their neighbors and have an ambitious set of goals in the form of the Kazakhstan 2050 plan. They also have resources in the form of uranium and natural gas.

Syster
Syster
3 months ago

@Naglfar
I too worry about.
@Surplus to Requirements
A nice analysis. I might suggest it might be an alliance that doesn’t exist yet, such as something like a CANZUK although probably not CANZUK. Certainly not the EU.
It also certainly won’t be China. Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it and modern day China is a remake of a remake multiple times over. We know how this movie ends and it isn’t well. India is innovating and is a wild card as you’ve said. I think my money would be on an African alliance perhaps centered around Nigeria but not necessarily. It’s very hard to know until it happens.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

For the past few weeks I’ve been worried about Trump refusing to concede, but whatever I imagined happening, it wasn’t this. At least it wasn’t as deadly as the right-wingers probably wanted it to be – some were wearing shirts that said “Civil War” (!) with yesterday’s date.

Last night my dad, who’s from the States, noted the difference between the policing of the Capitol at the BLM protests and the policing yesterday. He wasn’t the only one thinking this. Today the CBC news had images showing that exact difference.

At least, there’ll be pressure to ramp up security when Biden takes office, and it’ll be a relief when Trump is dragged away kicking and screaming. I’ll be kinda on edge in the meantime, though.

Re: world superpowers – I don’t know how long-term an effect this particular event is going to have, but if it’s a signal that U.S. is no longer a huge world superpower…is that such a bad thing? Personally, I’d hope for a world where no single country holds a disproportionate amount of power.

Last edited 3 months ago by epitome of incomrepehensibility
Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 months ago

There also might not be any global superpowers anymore. The USA have lost a lot of power thoses lasts 50 years, but toward a ton of regional powers, mostly the EU, China, and Japan. Of those three, China is the only one who feebly tried to expand its influence outside of its regional sphere. The current trajectory is much more toward a sort of global consensus on how to run stuffs, and regional powers setting the specific in any region.

Similarly, local wars seem as likely as ever, but honestly there’s no easy path to rope half the globe in a conflict anymore outside of somebody wanting to conquer the world.

Beyond Ocean
Beyond Ocean
3 months ago

Re: USA and the superpowers

I think the important thing to remember about USA becoming the dominant superpower of the XX century is that it happened in large part because the other likely candidates (like France and Germany) were blasted by world wars on their home territory, while USA gained economical and political power from both wars.

Without being able to predict a world-shaking event like that, I find it kind of wishful to say “I bet it’s going to be an underdog this time too.”

I also don’t really see the analogy between this and the fall of the Berlin Wall. The latter was significant because USSR caved to the demands of the enemy bloc and the part of its populace that didn’t want it to exist anymore (which was probably the majority at that point). If Putin came out and said “Mr Pence, tear down that steal!” and the congress caved in to keep Trump as the president (somehow), then it would be comparable.

If anything – sorry, this writes itself – it seems more like the Beer Hall Putsch. Kinda scary but mostly silly and easily dispersed.

And in that case, well, the end of Germany as a superpower didn’t happen with the failed nazi coup, or even the successful nazi coup.

To sum up, I’m mostly with Ohlmann. Several sort-of regional powers turned inwards and unwilling to really go all-out against one another, especially since the Cold War era invention of proxy war seems here to stay and is much more palatable for pretty much everyone holding power in the current world.

But of course, nobody did predict the world wars until they happened.

Xennial Dot Warner
Xennial Dot Warner
3 months ago

The deplorables are all on the same page with blaming MAGA-impersonating BLM/Antifa for the attempted coup. As usual.

Because of course they are. For one: discourse on Quora seems to be split between that, and desperate attempts to argue that insurrection is “patriotic.”

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
3 months ago

it will not likely be a tiny little thing with little in the way of domestic resources and population (which eliminates the likes of Iceland and New Zealand, and probably Finland)

“Probably” 😀

To quote (in my own translation) a tongue-in-cheek line from bestselling Finnish WWII novel by Väinö Linna:

If there were thirty million of us, we’d show the world how small to chop the chips

(The reference is to small wood/twig chips traditionally used for manure composting etc. At the time of WWII Finland’s population was three million plus change; now it’s five million plus change and probably won’t surpass six million without an increase in immigration.)

Alan Robertshaw
3 months ago

Trump supporters complain about being thrown under a bus; although some still think this is all part of his 4D chess masterplan.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/trump-incites-anger-among-acolytes-let-down-by-lack-of-support

Artemis
Artemis
3 months ago

@Naglfar
Not really. The time of the superpowers is over. Globalism destroys national identity, the current social life no longer needs a superpower.
However, it is especially funny that you call Russia. I live in Russia. We have had economic stagnation for many years, authoritarianism and dissatisfaction with the authorities. Our country will definitely never be a superpower again.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 months ago

Oh yes, I didn’t see that Naglfar talked about Russia as a potential superpower. Not gonna happening in the near future. They have a charismatic and somewhat competent dictator, but they definitely don’t have the population, army, or anything really to be a superpower. (it’s why Putin is so careful in doing everything to brush up Russia reputation, but without ever taking any risk).

China have just as competent dictators, but do have the number and inclination to be a superpower, so they are a much more likely candidate. It’s probably too risky tho, since like Russia they have to be super attentive at not creating a revolution at home. (and believe me : the chinese dictators are extremely careful at keeping their population content and avoiding trouble).

The USA could claw back at superpower status, and the EU could also do that, if either actually try. But that look too much efforts for too few gains. It’s not like being a superpower brought much good to the old USA after all.

I am not aware of a south american or african country with a decent chance at being a superpower, but I could be surprised.

Japan, India, Russia, and to an extent China however all have some “potential” to instigate bloody wars for territorial gains, probably followed by defeat and a regime change (similar to Napoleon or Hitler, so very bad news). Not sure which other country have the right mix of nationalism and confidence to try something like that, plus I think just about everyone remember how badly Irak and Afghanistan wars got.

Full Metal O
3 months ago

For whatever it might be worth, AXE, the all-but-official fragrance of masculine insecurity, has publicly denounced the MAGA insurrectionists:

http://twitter.com/AXE/status/1347325351668682752

Alan Robertshaw
3 months ago

“Ok; let’s break down Nancy Pelosi’s door!!! Did you bring the axe like we asked you?”

“Er….”

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

Trump just got permanently banned from Twitter.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
3 months ago

How long do you think it will be before Trump gets a Parler account?

Naglfar
Naglfar
3 months ago

@Gaebolga
I’d be surprised if he doesn’t have one already.

tim gueguen
3 months ago

Parler has its own problems. Its app has been removed from Google Play, and there’s a good chance it will be removed from the Apple Store. Apple gave them 24 hours to improve their moderation, which I doubt will happen.

Meanwhile Rush Limbaugh has shut down his Twitter account. And right wing crank cartoonist Ben Garrison has been suspended from Twitter.

Dalillama
3 months ago

Apparently the jackass in the buffalo hat literally called the FBI to confirm his name, that he was the person standing in the speaker’s chair, and the he was most absolutely doing this on behalf of Trump. He is now in custody.

Last edited 3 months ago by Dalillama
Alan Robertshaw
3 months ago

@ Dali

Well, they are proud boys, not smart boys.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
3 months ago

Re: buffalo hat guy

IDK if there’s an English idiom equivalent to being a “louse on the lens” but it means exactly that kind of attention seeker. If anyone actually gets paid by shady oligarchs for political protesting, it’s him.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
3 months ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

Well, they are proud boys, not smart boys.

Given their penchant for wearing black and yellow or, sometimes, black and orange, and for groupthink, as well as for forming violent swarms, perhaps we should call them the “proud bees”. The implication of collectivism should be especially galling to them, the more so because it is to a significant degree true.

@Lumipuna:

Re: buffalo hat guy

IDK if there’s an English idiom equivalent to being a “louse on the lens” but it means exactly that kind of attention seeker. If anyone actually gets paid by shady oligarchs for political protesting, it’s him.

To find out, look to see if he is very quickly sprung by some very generous anonymous benefactor posting his bail.

Alan Robertshaw
3 months ago

@ surplus

perhaps we should call them the “proud bees”. 

Heh yeah. But bees are nice, and useful; and we’ll miss them when they’ve gone.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
3 months ago

Dunno about bees – they all look pretty WASPish to me.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 months ago

@Surplus : also, like bee, the behavior of a single proud boy is rather simple and easy to predict.

Unlike bees, however, the sum of thoses individuals simple pattern don’t make something significantly more intelligent than its part.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
3 months ago

Uh-oh. Looks like the coup attempt was a superspreader event:

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/baked-alaska-protest-covid/

Not really surprising that some of these fucksticks brought the virus knowingly to this event. Add in the indoor crowding, lack of masks, exertion, and the likelihood that beating a cop to death is an aerosolizing procedure, and it’s a good bet most of these chuckleheads are now infected, and quite possibly half the House and Senate too.

GSS ex-noob
GSS ex-noob
3 months ago

How about “wasp boys”? Most of them are, and wasps are just as collective as bees, while being much less useful to humanity.

We would also accept “dumb asses” as a term; viz. Buffalo Head calling the FBI on himself.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 months ago

@GSS : I am very wary of calling wasp less useful than bees. If anything, there’s a ton of parasitic wasps that help keeping various kind of insect under control.

Bees have a better press because they are cuter and less likely to hurt humans, but something say me it’s insects as a whole who are necessary, not just bees.

Fabe
Fabe
3 months ago

Terminal Lance made a comic about the attack. It was of course against the attack.
https://terminallance.com/2021/01/10/terminal-lance-silent-but-deadly/