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creepy empathy deficit harassment incels misogyny

Incel: “Whenever I see a lone woman late at night I try to look as menacing as possible”

Incels don’t just talk shit about women online. Some of them act out their misogyny in real life. A few, like Elliot Rodger and Alek Minassian, resort to murderous violence; others take out their hatred of women in more subtle but still deeply unsettling ways.

On the Incels.co forums recently, one incel confessed how much he enjoys frightening women walking alone at night.

Whenever i see a lone woman late at night i try to look as menacing as possible
 Thread starterSpeedloader  Start dateSunday at 6:00 AM
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Sunday at 6:00 AM
#1
So the bitch would get uncomfortable :lul: :lul:
I do weird low inhib walks and stare at them without blinking
Works every time, foid alway

Other commenters agreed that this was a hilarious thing to do.

“Thank you for your service,” wrote meisterguido.

“[B]ased and blackpilled to the max,” added simulacrasimulation, suggesting that the OP was merely

exploiting their narcissistic belief that “everyone” wants to rape them or attack them

you have no intent to do anything but shining the mirror or on the bitches self love and egocentrism

Other commenters suggested ways to improve the harassment.

“Also make some weird noises while walking behind them,” wrote one. “Scares them haha.”

“[R]un up behind them and tickle them,” added another.

Still another commenter confessed he liked to scare young girls in a similar way.

“I do the same with lolis,” wrote LOLI BREEDING.

they get scared much easier and don’t know what to do so it’s double the fun. also who cares if roast gets scared? best done after school, check them out on public transportation then walk behind them for a while after they get off. I’ve made them run in fear on multiple occasions. once by accident in fact

Only one commenter objected to the OPs confession — not because it’s wrong to deliberately scare people in vulnerable situations but because it makes men look bad.

“This is bad not only for you, but for all of us,” wrote soymonkcel.  

You are giving them credibility when they complain about our behavior (even if you weren’t serious about it), which will turn against us in the end considering how cucked is soyciety.

Don’t do that again. I don’t want to pay for the consequences of something I didn’t do.

This isn’t the first time I’ve run across incels talking about following girls to scare them.

Actions like this are not only evil in themselves; they can also be a sort of test-run for more extreme actions against girls and women. It’s distressing to see not only these sorts of confessions but the enthusiasm with which they are received by other incels, who may be inspired to do similar things themselves. Incels.co is a toxic environment that breeds ever more toxic beliefs — and encourages the more “low inhibition” incels to take their hatred out on real women in the real world.

I can only hope that one or both of the confessors here was making things up.

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Seth S
Seth S
10 months ago

Let me get this right… they’re harassing women… in order to “exploit” their presumably unfounded worries about being harassed, raped or killed… and thereby show them how “narcissistic” they are? Instead of just admitting they and other men like them are the very reason women are worried about harassment, rape and murder?

Just how much of their craniums did they have to fill with sand to start doing this Mobius-double-reacharound groupthink?

Last edited 10 months ago by Seth S
Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

So the bitch would get uncomfortable

Such a shock that this guy is unable to get a date. Can’t possibly be that, though, must be his wrist size and canthal tilt.

I don’t want to pay for the consequences of something I didn’t do.

Maybe stop associating with a group of men that do this, then?

Lainy
Lainy
10 months ago

TBH I’m so bad at social roles and such as that that if someone was just staring at me, I probably wouldn’t notice or care, because i space out and stare all the time too. If they started walking towards me, probably wouldn’t even think they were walking towards me, just in the area I am at. If they were making some noises that weren’t talking again, might assume their a different type of ADHD or Autistic then I am and they make noises, I randomly hum or make noises out of no where or just start talking. But if someone ran up and touched me you are getting peppered sprayed in the face, because when I’m out my keys are always in my hand which means my pepper spray is always in my hands, and my reaction to a stranger touching me is going to be mace them. So have fun ranting about that incels when someone woman pepper sprays you because you thought it was funny to touch her. I’ve pepper sprayed strange man before for touching me, I have no problem doing it again, and I’ll leave your ass there to suffer.

Mexican Hot Chocolate
Mexican Hot Chocolate
10 months ago

So on one hand they want to act like assholes and make women uncomfortable but on the other hand they’re mad women won’t give them the time of day. The pretzel logic is amazing.

Anon Get-It-On
Anon Get-It-On
10 months ago

oh, my, I can’t even…

https://eradica.wordpress.com/2020/11/29/the-law-and-order-racket/#comment-75549

Just when I think I’ve seen it all with the manosphere and neo nazis…

(Trigger for talk of suicide and really gross pictures!)

I think I now now why you call it the manure sphere now!

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
10 months ago

What a coincidence, I just saw a newspaper report of some guy doing this in a neighborhood near me. Witnesses describe him being about 50yo, 170 cm tall (clearly a heightcel /s) and with a facial appearance like one of Santa’s minions.

Bluecat
Bluecat
10 months ago

Terrorism, essentially – and grooming each other to be unrepentant and worse terrorists.

This has already started happening to my granddaughter. She’s 12.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
10 months ago

Incels are angry that women get attention…so their plan is to give women even more attention…which makes incels even more angry…

That’s an infinite feedback loop that never leads to a good place.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
10 months ago

Incel: “Whenever I see a lone woman late at night I try to look as menacing as possible”

So you’re totally good with her calling the cops? Using pepper spray? Screaming? Recognizing you from around the neighborhood and pointing you out to her big, strong dad, brothers, and husband (all of whom are violent criminals)? Or recognizing you and calling your mom? Using martial arts?

You guys never, ever think anything through. That’s why you’re incels.

Correction Automatique
Correction Automatique
10 months ago

I can’t help but feel if an incel was trying to look at me menacingly I’d call an ambulance as I’d assume he was having some kind of medical episode.

Once again, that was a very long way to explain that women terrify them.

Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@Kat

Or recognizing you and calling your mom?

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t like that, and would then claim afterwards that it didn’t happen and be very mad.

Grace
Grace
10 months ago

<blockquote>“[R]un up behind them and tickle them,” added another.</blockquote>

Where I live, that’s assault. Assuming that my reaction time was good enough, he’d regret it in the moment, and I’d do my best to make him regret it in a courtroom, too.

Grace

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
10 months ago

I’m so oblivious o everyone around me that an incel could stare as menacingly as he liked at me and I wouldn’t notice. But I’m fat and 37 so I probably don’t exist in there world. I’m also not a woman, I just have breasts.

Haggis Wallington the 30ish
Haggis Wallington the 30ish
10 months ago

Umm if some nerdy ass looking dude was staring at me making weird noises, I wouldn’t find it menacing. I’d think he was special. Sorry, just being real. Now if a stranger comes up and tickles me, they will regret it.

Pie
Pie
10 months ago

@Anon Get-It-On

oh, my, I can’t even…

This isn’t the first time you’ve linked to that particular blog to share the shock images in its comment feed.

The blog isn’t anything special nor does it appear to be popular or even have its comment thread monitored, and I don’t really understand why you feel the need to link it here or show us scat porn. It’d be nice if you didn’t.

Last edited 10 months ago by Pie
Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@Pie

The blog isn’t anything special nor does it appear to be popular or even have its comment thread monitored, and I don’t really understand why you feel the need to link it here or show us scat porn. It’d be nice if you didn’t.

That commenter has also done this with other sources in the past, then disappears for a while. I agree, it would be good if they’d stop doing this.

Rick
Rick
10 months ago

Articles about social media commentary is a sure way to remain as a freelance writer.

Nate M
Nate M
10 months ago

They probably walk faster because it looks like he’s about to shit himself and they don’t want to be near that

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
10 months ago

The depressing part is it’s not just incels who do this. They’re just the ones who admit it. Street harassment is very much about scaring women and girls (or people who are perceived as women or girls) and keeping us in our place. And most street harassers target the vulnerable, such as young girls, heavily pregnant people or the visibly disabled. All the street harassers are not incels.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
10 months ago

OT, but the entire Jordan Owen thread has apparently disappeared from this site. Reloading it to check for new comments produced a 404! Presumably a malfunction, but a severe one causing a loss of publicly-visible data.

The “incels wonder…” thread is still misrendering, also.

Acid Kritana
10 months ago

Please. Women have much less to fear walking down the street.

Men are far more likely to be assaulted, murdered, mugged, or other on the street.

If I recall correctly, women are safer than children.

Lainy
Lainy
10 months ago

@Acid

I’ve been assaulted twice this year on the street and that’s a decreased number because of the pandemic. Shut up.

Naglfar
Naglfar
10 months ago

@Acid Kritana

Women have much less to fear walking down the street.

[citation needed]
Though really I know you don’t have one because you’re wrong.

Last edited 10 months ago by Naglfar
.45
.45
10 months ago

@Acid Kritana

Strange. I, a dude, have in fact been yelled at many a time from passing motorists, my favorite being “You’re a goofy looking motherfucker”, but such events are not particularly common, though I do take walks quite often. On the other hand, for one of my sisters who does not own a car, catcalling, threats, and the like, are basically a daily occurence.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
10 months ago

Crime statistics don’t reflect the constant harassment that women and people who are perceived as female experience in public spaces. All but the most serious of incidents are not logged by the police. All of those seemingly small incidents of harassment add up quickly and absolutely cause trauma. It’s exhausting to have to try and evaluate every man who passes near you for red flags, never knowing if when he looks your way it means he’s going to flirt with you, verbally abuse you, maybe even assault you. Because of times that’s what fucking happens.

Last edited 10 months ago by weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
rabid rabbit
rabid rabbit
10 months ago

Oddly, when I realized that for years I had been terrifying women when out for a stroll at night beause I’m a fast walker and it would be very easy to misinterpret me as following them, I tried to figure out how to avoid that effect. I think I even asked for advice here.

Not looking for cookies, just noting the immense gulf between mindsets.

Paireon
Paireon
10 months ago

So basically it’s assholes like this who’re responsible for that time a woman living in the same condo building as me thought I was a potential aggressor just because I was returning home through the front door but came in a minute after her (we’d never seen each other before but I’d been living there for over a year by then; I get where she was coming from but it was still pretty damn insulting). Thanks a lot, assholes.

@Acid Kritana: Huh, managed to have three edges (hat trick!) in two words (acid, critical hit, katana). Congrats, by self-important edgelord standards that’s… actually par for the course, so no cookie for you. Also, I’d like to see the statistics you’re basing your opinions off of.

Last edited 10 months ago by Paireon
TacticalProgressive
TacticalProgressive
10 months ago

@Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile

So you’re totally good with her calling the cops? Using pepper spray? Screaming? Recognizing you from around the neighborhood and pointing you out to her big, strong dad, brothers, and husband (all of whom are violent criminals)? Or recognizing you and calling your mom? Using martial arts?

Or if she is packing heat: potentially getting shot? And how much do you wanna bet that the women who are armed with firearms are armed in the first place because of people like the incels and their ilk?

@ Acid Kritana

Please. Women have much less to fear walking down the street.

Men are far more likely to be assaulted, murdered, mugged, or other on the street.

If I recall correctly, women are safer than children.

The statistics prove this assertion of yours a blatant falsehood.

Kevin
Kevin
10 months ago

Last time I looked, I was under the impression this kind of behaviour could get his collar felt on this side of the Pond.

Till wer sonst
Till wer sonst
10 months ago

To be honest, looking intimidating to other people is not something that you can always control. I am a fairly tall guy and I have made the experience that sometimes, especially when there are no other people around or in the dark, just by walking in the same general direction as someone else (especially women), I can be intimidating – and there is very little I can do about it. Shouting something like “Don’t worry, I’m harmless,” might have the opposite of the desired effect. For me, finding ways to look less intimidating or disarm such a situation (if they are uncomfortable for me, they are probably worse for the people who feel threatened) has been quite important for years.

On the other hand, it is undeniable that the ability to scare somebody can feel as if you have some sort of power over them. It did so for me, even though I had no ill intent whatsowever, when I realized that effect for the first time. I think I have no interest in gaining any positive reinforcements by exploiting someone’s fears, but I can see way too many of these incel clowns to feel very good for themselves in such a situation and probably create them deliberately. It is pure bullying of course, using scare tactics to feel better about themselves, especially if one suffers from the delusion that social interactions are a zero sum game.

In reality there is nothing truly intimidating or even ruthless about this behaviour; at its core, it is inherently pathetic and self-defeating, even within the microcosm of incel “logic”: by using these bullying tactics, these guys famously going their own way, very much make their self-worth dependent on another person’s reaction, but instead of a positive reaction, it is an inherently negative one.

Acid Kritana
9 months ago

When I commented, I didn’t expect THAT many responses. And all on this little count of total responses! So I suppose I should react to people, ey?

Well, here’s my original comment:

Please. Women have much less to fear walking down the street.

Men are far more likely to be assaulted, murdered, mugged, or other on the street.

If I recall correctly, women are safer than children.

@Lainy

I’ve been assaulted twice this year on the street and that’s a decreased number because of the pandemic. Shut up.

First off, I would like to point out that I never said that women are NEVER assaulted, just that women are much less likely to be assaulted.

Second off, when I was still a girl, interestingly enough, everyone left me alone. I never got harassed, assaulted, etc. And I was what you could term as a “pretty girl.” I did get asked out, several times, by both guys and girls. However, when I became a dude, suddenly, people were harassing me MUCH more. I had never been assaulted before as a girl, but that changed after my transition. It was as if people suddenly thought it was okay to hate on me or hit me just because I was a guy!

@Naglfar

> Women have much less to fear walking down the street.

[citation needed]

Though really I know you don’t have one because you’re wrong.

I’ll provide a citation, along with the specific data.

Male violence: Why aren’t men warned to be careful like women are? (news.com.au):

  • 92% of assaults against men, but only 39% of assaults against women, occurred outside their home”
  • 80% of assault victims in entertainment venues are men”
  • Police crime data, “70% of assaults against men and 42% against women occurred outside the home, 81% of women knew the offender, only 49% of men did”

Men more likely to be attacked by strangers than women (smh.com.au)

  • “…more than one in three assaults on males which resulted in hospitalisation in 2014-15, where the attacker was specified, were perpetrated by someone they did not know…compared to about one in 14 for females”
  • For about one in five cases [of assault against males], the assault was perpetrated by more than one unknown attacker”
  • “Young men, aged 15 to 24, were the most likely to be attacked by several strangers”
  • “When the location of the assault was listed, attacks on men by multiple strangers mostly happened on a street, in about 40 per cent of cases, with another 20 per cent occurring in a cafe, hotel or restaurant”
  • “Of the more than 19,000 people who were hospitalised because of an assault, three-quarters were men and boys”
  • “Hospitalised assault injury cases among men and boys was most likely to be caused by an assault by bodily force (61 per cent) – for example, unarmed attack or brawl – followed by assault by a sharp object (13 per cent) and assault by blunt object (13 per cent)…About 55 per cent of cases involving sharp objects involved a knife…More than two-thirds of hospitalised assaults on males resulted in injuries to the head and neck”
  • “When the perpetrator was known to the male victim, family members were the most common attackers – almost one in three – followed by acquaintances or friends”

Myth Busting: The true picture of gendered violence (sbs.com.au)

  • While women are much more frightened of street crime, men are at much higher risk – this is known as the ‘fear of crime gender paradox’”
  • “Men in Australia (and most places in the world) are at much higher risk of being stabbed, shot, and beaten-up by strangers. In fact, the most recent statistics from the Australian Institute of Criminology indicate that men are 11.5 times more likely than women to be killed by a stranger”
  • “One of the things that surprises me when I work with men in prison is their adherence to a gentleman’s code where ‘you don’t hit chicks’. As evidence of this, female corrections officers are less likely to be assaulted by a prisoner than their male colleagues; and people who have attacked random women on the street are often looked down upon in the prison social system”

Fewer women than men fall victim to violence (cbs.nl)

  • Of all types of violent crimes, intimidation is the most common among both women and men. The majority of victims are male: 1.6 percent of men against 1.1 percent of women. In addition, more men (0.9 percent) than women (0.5 percent) fall victim to assault”

Everyday Sociology Blog: Who is Most Likely to be a Crime Victim? (typepad.com)

  • “Boys and men are more likely to be victims of assault, robbery, and homicide than girls or women are”

Homicide statistics by gender – Wikipedia

  • “…worldwide, 78.7% of homicide victims are men…”
  • Countries men are more likely to be killed: 5 countries 100% male victims, 12 countries 94.6 to 90.3%, 54 countries 89.8 to 80.3%, 73 countries 79.7 to 70.1%, 38 countries 69.9 to 60%, and 11 countries 59.8 to 52.7%
  • Countries men and women are equally likely to be killed: 2 countries 50% male victims
  • Countries women are more likely to be killed: 5 countries 51 to 52.9% female victims, and 2 countries 100%

@.45

Strange. I, a dude, have in fact been yelled at many a time from passing motorists, my favorite being “You’re a goofy looking motherfucker”, but such events are not particularly common, though I do take walks quite often. On the other hand, for one of my sisters who does not own a car, catcalling, threats, and the like, are basically a daily occurence.

As I have explained to @Lainy, when I was a girl, I almost never got harassed, assaulted, catcalled, etc. I was touched inappropriately, but that was about it. I had never even gotten assaulted during that time! And the people who did in fact sexually harass me, when it did happen, were all female! The only times I have really ever been harassed by males in a sexual way was after I transitioned to male. I got sexually harassed much more after my transition to male than I ever did as a female. I have also been assaulted as a male.

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Crime statistics don’t reflect the constant harassment that women and people who are perceived as female experience in public spaces.

Now I know that too-long-of-a-name didn’t exactly respond to me, but I just want to counter what they/he/she said.

If people who are female or are perceived as female really faced more harassment, why did I face so much more harassment when I transitioned to male than I ever did as female?

@Paireon

@Acid Kritana: Huh, managed to have three edges (hat trick!) in two words (acid, critical hit, katana). Congrats, by self-important edgelord standards that’s… actually par for the course, so no cookie for you. Also, I’d like to see the statistics you’re basing your opinions off of.

Actually, the name Kritana is a gender nuetral Jewish name meaning “God of Death.” Kind of like “Acid God of Death” or “Acid Death God.” But that’s not actually a bad translation! I kind of like it.

However, I absolutely hate cookies, used to like them, but no more, so you can keep them to yourself. It’s not like I would want them anyway. Who knows, you might poison them.

And if you want them statistics, just look at my reaction to @Naglfar.

@TacticalProgressive

@ Acid Kritana

> Please. Women have much less to fear walking down the street.

> Men are far more likely to be assaulted, murdered, mugged, or other on the street.

> If I recall correctly, women are safer than children.

The statistics prove this assertion of yours a blatant falsehood.

Take a look at the statistics I gave to @Naglfar.

Well, that’s it for now!

Besides the fact that I put up the right website for me, this time.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Acid Kritana
Once again, I reiterate: the data you cite does not include a significant number of factors, such as harassment and the psychological toll as outlined by other commenters.

As for your experience, while I am sorry that you have been harassed and assaulted, anecdotes are not data. Your experience is not universal. In addition, given that you have said you are a trans man, transphobia could also be a factor, which would not be the case for cis men.

As for your little website, speaking as a member of both the B and the T, I can say that the LGBT community does not want to work with MRAs, a group which hates us.

Last edited 9 months ago by Naglfar
Acid Kritana
9 months ago

I would like to say, that at least I haven’t been called an incel or anything yet. I will commend you people for not word vomiting assaults on me.

Now, reaction time!

@Naglfar

@Acid Kritana

Once again, I reiterate: the data you cite does not include a significant number of factors, such as harassment and the psychological toll as outlined by other commenters.

You wanted me to provide evidence for my claim, “Women have much less to fear walking down the street.” You did not say “harassment.” You said, “[citation needed].” If you wanted “harassment citations,” you should have said so.

However, if you want me to provide citations for the evidence of equal or more harassment against men, just ask. But please clarify what types you want. Broad research often has broad results.

As for your experience, while I am sorry that you have been harassed and assaulted, anecdotes are not data. Your experience is not universal. In addition, given that you have said you are a trans man, transphobia could also be a factor, which would not be the case for cis men.

I have also been sexually assaulted, as a male, but when I told a feminist, how did he respond? He insinuated that I am a rapist and said that men who claim are “suspicious.”

Yay feminism.

I know my existence is not universal. But other people were bringing up theirs. So why is me bringing up mine different?

The vast majority of people who have harassed or assaulted me as a male had nothing to do with my being trans. Almost everyone who has harassed me does even KNOW that I’m trans.

The vast majority of men, at least 83%, have become the victim of at least one violent crime, while around 60% of women have become the victim of at least one violent crime. However, this number leaves out men who are domestically abused or raped, so the real number is higher. Include nonviolent crime? Every single man. And many crimes also have harassment in them. Meaning that yes, men do indeed face much harassment.

I have also become the victim/survivor of multiple crimes, most after I transitioned to male. Sexual assault. Abuse. Theivery. Assault. More. I’d have to look at all crimes.

As for your little website, speaking as a member of both the B and the T, I can say that the LGBT community does not want to work with MRAs, a group which hates us.

Ah, my “little website.” Tell me, did you even look at it? Because I can provide you with a useful data sheet on domestic violence/abuse.

Domestic Abuse/Violence Factsheet #1 – Acid Men’s Rights (wordpress.com)

And here’s the PDF, for easier reading, or just to get the statistics:

domestic-abuse-violence-factsheet-1-2.pdf (wordpress.com)

I also reacted to Futrelle on my website, though the article is a bit long.

MRA Says Trans People Are Allies. “We Hunted the Mammoth” Thinks Most MRAs are “Transphobic” – Acid Men’s Rights (wordpress.com)

And, speaking from both the T and the G (and, well, admittedly, I’m probably a 5, so a little of the B as well), I can say that almost all MRAs are pro-gay, while a similar amount are pro-trans. In fact, I have noticed many LGBT members work with the MRA community. The MRA community certainly talks about LGBT issues, especailly those that disproportionately affect LGBT men.

Take a look at this Honey Badger Brigade article, for instance:

https://honeybadgerbrigade.com/2016/03/30/gay-men-are-not-oppressed-really/

Most MRAs do not hate LGBT people. Those MRAs that do are certainly less in number than the number of TERFs.

A large portion, admittedly larger than the admitted population, of MRAs ourselves are LGBT.

Let’s take a look at Gen Z, for example. A large portion of Gen Z is LGBT, around over half in America and a third (or over a third) in the UK. Gen Z is also the most anti-feminist. The report “Young People in the time of COVID-19” by HOPE Not Hate found that half (50%) of Gen Z men and 1/4 (23%) of Gen Z women believe feminism has gone too far. Obviously, there are more than that.

Meaning that more than half of Gen Z men and more than 1/4 of Gen Z women are anti-feminist. And most of us are LGBT as well!

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Acid Kritana

but when I told a feminist, how did he respond? He insinuated that I am a rapist and said that men who claim are “suspicious.”

I am sorry this happened to you, but I would note that no one here is saying that. If you want me not to generalize about MRAs, you could start by extending the same to feminists.

I can say that almost all MRAs are pro-gay, while a similar amount are pro-trans.

Every MRA I’ve seen has used gay men as rhetorical devices without actually caring, and most openly hate queer women. As for trans people, I haven’t heard much of what they think of trans men but most seem to think trans women are men (often referring to us as self-hating men). So either your experience is very different or you’re being selective in definitions.

Meaning that more than half of Gen Z men and more than 1/4 of Gen Z women are anti-feminist. And most of us are LGBT as well!

That’s…not how numbers work.

Acid Kritana
9 months ago

@Naglfar

@Acid Kritana

> but when I told a feminist, how did he respond? He insinuated that I am a rapist and said that men who claim are “suspicious.”

I am sorry this happened to you, but I would note that no one here is saying that. If you want me not to generalize about MRAs, you could start by extending the same to feminists.

I’ll stop generalizing the majority of feminists the moment y’all stop generalizing that majority of MRAs. Deal?

> I can say that almost all MRAs are pro-gay, while a similar amount are pro-trans.

Every MRA I’ve seen has used gay men as rhetorical devices without actually caring, and most openly hate queer women.

I think you and I have been to different places. Nearly MRA I’ve met is pro-gay and pro-trans, and when the one transphobic MRA I met (playingpoodles) told me that I would die if I removed my ovaries, all the other MRAs responding were supportive of me, with some defending me against him (or her?).

I haven’t met a single MRA that hates queer women, and the MRAs who do hate LGBT (very rare) are usually misandrists, rarely, if ever, mentioning female LGBT.

I’ve met quite a few MRAs. If you would like a list of pro-LGBT or LGBT MRAs, and I can give you some. I was already planning on making a list of LGBT MRAs anyway.

As for trans people, I haven’t heard much of what they think of trans men but most seem to think trans women are men (often referring to us as self-hating men). So either your experience is very different or you’re being selective in definitions.

Many MRAs tend to talk about trans people less than gay people, but they are generally quite accepting of trans people as well. Even random MRAs tend to be pretty accepting.

Yes, our experiences are quite different.

> Meaning that more than half of Gen Z men and more than 1/4 of Gen Z women are anti-feminist. And most of us are LGBT as well!

That’s…not how numbers work.

Yes, it is. If half (50%) of Gen Z men and 1/4 (23%) of Gen Z women believe feminism has gone too far, it would make sense that there are more anti-feminists than that.

Gen Z is the most LGBT generation, jumping that of even Millennials. More than half of Gen Z Americans and more than 1/3 of Gen Z UK identify as some form of LGBT.

Meaning, we are both the most LGBT and anti-feminist generation.

We are also the most atheist generation, 13% vs 6% of adults.

We are also the most racially diverse, though I don’t have specific numbers.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

The common anti-feminist will only stop generalizing about all feminists unless some feminists stop doing bad things. Group punishment for individual crimes.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Acid Kritana

I think you and I have been to different places.

Have you been to r/mensrights? r/MGTOW? That’s where I’ve observed MRAs, and almost every one has been transphobic and homophobic.

Meaning, we are both the most LGBT and anti-feminist generation.

You seem to be assuming overlap between those two, which you don’t have the data for. That’s where the error is.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
9 months ago

Note that the claim that gen Z is anti feminist isn’t backed by fact. It’s pure, unadulterated horseshit from someone trying to make himself look good.

Lainy
Lainy
9 months ago

@acid

Your also a kid so I’m not surprised you haven’t been harassed much when you thought you were a girl. I’m 22. I’m older then you and i actually go places were adult men are. And it’s adult men who assaulted me. Just because you were lucky doesn’t mean what happens to be doesn’t happen you asshole. Your expenince of nothing happened to you doesn’t make mine go away. And how are you going to claim yourself when you said you’ve been sexually assaulted? Or are you just talking out of your ass.

Lainy
Lainy
9 months ago

@acid

I also love the beautiful irony, of ypu a boy, telling me i shouldn’t be afraid gor my safety, because you, a boy, feels safe in this world. Yeah tell the rape victim and the woman who gets assaulted and harassed a lot that all that fear is just in my head because you a guy feel safe. Good job

Acid Kritana
9 months ago

@Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

The common anti-feminist will only stop generalizing about all feminists unless some feminists stop doing bad things. Group punishment for individual crimes.

If good feminists ever actually criticized the bad feminists (at least to a visible degree), we MRAs and anti-feminists (not the same thing, though both are connected) would see y’all and there would be much less generalizing going on, because we would see that there are indeed good feminists.

Luckily, I’ve already met some good feminists, so my faith in humanity is somewhat restored.

@Naglfar

@Acid Kritana

> I think you and I have been to different places.

Have you been to r/mensrights? r/MGTOW? That’s where I’ve observed MRAs, and almost every one has been transphobic and homophobic.

Yes, I’ve been to r/mensrights. And r/MGTOW. For the r/mensrights, I noticed how almost everyone supported me as a trans guy, and even a couple other MRAs defended me against a transphobic MRA. I even made a joke with one of them, where we joked that he could be a TERF, because we weren’t sure of his ideology at the time. Turns out he was an MRA, and I told to the other person I made a joke with that playingpoodles could just be called a “TERMRA.” Though, it is a bit long, so maybe TUMOR pronunciation might also work?

Otherwise, most are pro-gay, pro-bi, and pro-trans. Perhaps we have been observing different people. There are many people on the subreddit. There is also “observation bias,” which could be affecting either of us, though that had been the first time I was on there (and I haven’t been able to go back for some time; I could give you the link to my piece, if you would like).

As for the r/MGTOW, I have noticed that (some) MGTOW tend to be misogynist, though not all are. I also didn’t agree with many of the things they said when I visited, though I did agree on a couple things (basically, it was things based on misandry, and they were just discussing them – any misogyny I heard made me uncomfortable, to be honest).

I was even accepted by a MGTOW on r/mensrights, and there have been a couple more MGTOW to be accepting of trans people. Though they do, as a group, seem to be more misogynistic, transphobic, homophobic, etc. than MRAs do. However, to say all, or even a large portion, of them are that way would to be dumb. Those forms of hatred just seem to be a little bit more common among them than among MRAs.

And I think that’s another thing that might not be added in – you might be taking MGTOW to represent MRAs, or for many to be MRAs. MGTOW may be connected, in a way, but many are not MRAs, nor do they represent MRAs. Perhaps that may be what is affecting your experience differently than mine.

> Meaning, we are both the most LGBT and anti-feminist generation.

You seem to be assuming overlap between those two, which you don’t have the data for. That’s where the error is.

But do you have proof that MRA Gen Zers and LGBT Gen Zers are opposed? I have proof that they are connected, if not through putting numbers together. You have no proof that LGBT and MRA are opposed in Gen Z.

The report, the one by HOPE Not Hate, also found that Gen Zers rate Gay people quite highly, trans people second, and close behind them, while rating feminists close to 50 (on the scale of 100 to 0, 100 being warmest).

Surveys of the public have found that most people believe in equality, but the vast majority do NOT identify as feminists. Several studies have found that the general public rates feminists generally low, and many would like to see feminism disappear. There was a study that found that more people would rather their kid have cancer than their kid have feminism. A study done on men found that the vast majority of men would rather have sex with a potato than a feminist.

What proof do you have that MRA and LGBT are opposed?

@Ohlmann

Note that the claim that gen Z is anti feminist isn’t backed by fact. It’s pure, unadulterated horseshit from someone trying to make himself look good.

Note how I have actually provided evidence to back my claim, including a study that literally looked at how teenagers see the world.

And you have provided…what, exactly? Just whining that I’m wrong, because “I said so.”

And why would I try to make myself look good? What would that do? It would provide nothing in this context. If I was trying to seem attractive for a date, that would make sense. But I’m not going to try to “look good,” just for a bunch of random people on the internet.

Seriously.

@Lainy

@acid

Your also a kid so I’m not surprised you haven’t been harassed much when you thought you were a girl.

Y’all seem obsessed with calling me “kid.” How would you like it if I called you “little girl”? Not only would that be rude, but it’d be uncalled for. Y’all don’t even know my age, and you’re acting like you know everything about me.

And everyone left me alone when I was a girl. Seeing as I had started my transition when I was 14 (and I can make a pretty good male-looking person, as long as I do the right things), wouldn’t it surprise you that people started to harass me much more after I transitioned? And it happened basically the moment I looked like a guy.

I’m 22. I’m older then you and i actually go places were adult men are.

I have gone to places with adult men. I have gone to places with adult women. As both a girl and a guy. And I have been harassed by both guys and girls as a dude (not ever as a girl, really), mostly by women/girls.

Just because you’re older than me doesn’t mean that you’ve been harassed more. “Ah yes, barely older? Must have been harassed 10 times over!”

And it’s adult men who assaulted me.

And it’s been mainly adult women who have assaulted or harassed me.

I understand that harassment by either gender exists, and I’m sorry you’ve been harassed.

But that still doesn’t give you the right to deny my experience just because I’m younger than you.

Just because you were lucky doesn’t mean what happens to be doesn’t happen you asshole.

I haven’t been “lucky.” If I had been “lucky,” I never would have been harassed, assaulted, called names beyond anything you could imagine (both online and to my face), been stolen from, and more.

If I were “lucky,” I never would have had my experience, my existence denied by everyone.

Everyone except MRAs, but that’s beyond the point.

If I had ever been “lucky,” I never would have grown up depressed, hating myself, and thinking the world would have been better off with out me.

If I had ever been “lucky,” I never would have gotten hear. I would still be an MRA, but I wouldn’t have ever gotten here. I never would have planned to write my book that I’m currently writing, “Men’s Rights Are Human Rights.” I never would have been here, arguing with you all.

If I had been “lucky,” I never would have needed Men’s Rights. If men had been treated equally to women, then I never would have needed to join the fight for Men’s Rights.

You’re not the only person who exists. You’re not the only person with a story.

Your expenince of nothing happened to you doesn’t make mine go away.

I didn’t have “nothing happen.” Yes, basically nothing ever happened to me as a girl, but as a guy, it has certainly never been “nothing.”

And how are you going to claim yourself when you said you’ve been sexually assaulted? Or are you just talking out of your ass.

That first sentence is worded confusingly.

That second sentence is offensive.

Yes, I have indeed been sexually assaulted. And while the act itself wasn’t all that bad (I got touched inappropriately) compared to other sexual assaults, how people reacted to me when I talk about the fact that I have been sexually assaulted before. Thanks for adding onto that, by the way.

@Lainy

@acid

I also love the beautiful irony, of ypu a boy, telling me i shouldn’t be afraid gor my safety, because you, a boy, feels safe in this world.

I never said that I feel safe, nor have I ever said that you have absolutely nothing to worry about. I have merely stated that women have MUCH LESS to worry about. There’s a difference. Some women are going to be assaulted much more than the average. That’s obviously going to happen. It just wouldn’t be quite as often as for men (and boys).

And I don’t feel safe. I did much more as a girl, though not entirely. I feel much less safe as a guy, especially after learning my level of danger. I know that I’m a physically weak person. I know that I probably couldn’t defend myself that well. I also know that if I do get attacked, and if the person finds out that I’m trans, it could make things much worse.

And when I do end up dating, I understand that gay men are 5 times more likely to become a victim of a hate crime than lesbians are, and some years it is 6 times. If I ever went out in public as a dude dating a dude, I have a much higher chance of being assaulted, attacked, murdered, etc. than you or a lesbian ever would.

This is also one of the reasons why I never like to go outside.

Yeah tell the rape victim and the woman who gets assaulted and harassed a lot that all that fear is just in my head because you a guy feel safe. Good job

I never said that the fear is just “in your head.” You’ve been attacked more than the average woman, so it makes sense that you should have more fear than the average woman.

Lainy
Lainy
9 months ago

@Acid

Okay little boy, let me ask you this then. So since no one bothered you when you thought you were a girl, how does that mean that the men who grab my breast? slap my ass? try to put their fingers up my pussy when I’m walking down the street in a short skirt, don’t happen because they don’t happen to you? I’m assuming you’ve never had a miscarriage as well, should I not be afraid of not having another one because you? a boy? who started presenting as a boy at the start of your puberty? should say I don’t have to worry about being assualted even though it’s happen time and time again to me, just because it doesn’t happen to you? And if your under 18, your a boy, your a child, your a minor, sorry baby boy, that how it be. So answer that? should I care about the bad things that happen to me just because they don’t happen to you? Are does it only matter if bad things happen to you?

Also you just sound like a kid that in their “I’m to cool to care, let me troll some people and tell them how little I care and write an essay to prove it” it’s really sad.

You can call me little girl if you want, I’m pretty little. Part of the reason men target me. But you know, I’m so glad I have a boy to try and explain what being a woman is suppose to be like to me and That i shouldn’t be worried about being assaulted again and again because again, it doesn’t happen to you! wow so it must not exists!

Lainy
Lainy
9 months ago

@Accid

Also, I’m not saying you haven’t been hurt by women. But you telling me, I don’t have to worried because “women get assaulted less then men” is a huge discarding of my experiences. You crave a respect you won’t give to others and wonder why you get your head bit off when you trigger someone. It’s childish, it’s hurtful, and yes you started off doing to ever woman here who’s been sexually assaulted and harassed.

Lainy
Lainy
9 months ago

@Acid

Okay, I’m going to take a deep breath and explain this to you slowly and calmly as I can. First, you are discrediting women that talk about their experience. I don’t get assaulted more then average woman, you got assaulted less then the average woman when you thought you were a girl. My experience isn’t unusual. It something that almost ever female looking person goes through. I don’t doubt that women have hurt you. I’ve seen the damage transphobia women do to trans boys/ trans men. It’s horrible. I hope that you never get assaulted again. I hope no one ever physically harms you, shouts slurs, or touches you in a way you never want.

Just because you had it easier when you thought you were a girl, that does mean girls live in some ” easy path”. When you were transitioning at age 14, I was being forced to suck cock and pressured to do things I didn’t want to do. You are extremely lucky you weren’t harassed when you thought you were a girl, but you are very young. You were young, and you transitioned around the time that a lot of girls start having the harassments and assault. Your right, i don’t know you. Maybe your in a small town so the number that would have happened to you is quite small. Maybe you live in a big city but adults did a good job of protecting you. Maybe your lucky enough that you lived somewhere men were good and didn’t hurt a child. But your experience is very rare.

I talk about your age baby boy, because you are still a baby. You need life experience. One that you don’t have. Yet you feel like you have enough to make calls for everyone. Especially on a post about a man who talks about wanting to follow and young girls and make them think they might be raped. You saw someone wanting to do that and said ” women are less likely to get attacked by men so you don’t have to be worried about a violent men hurting you” that’s what you did. And i want you realize why your getting reactions from people.

Also, what happened to you is not your fault. I’m sorry that everyone has told you it was and tried to make you feel like that. Try to make you feel like it doesn’t happen because your a trans boy. Try to make you feel like it because they say men don’t get harassed, men don’t get raped. They do. Everyone here knows they do. It’s disgusting, it’s vile, and I’m so sorry that it happened to you. I’m sorry you don’t feel safe to go outside. I’m sorry your scared of following in love and that you can be murdered for living your truth. Life is cruel like that. Trolling a feminist space isn’t going to help with that. coming into a feminist space with a bunch of women talking about their experiences and their fears on a post about it and telling them they have less to worry about then you do isn’t going to change that. Everyone here is aware of that and I will keep going until my dying breath to try and make the world safer and more accepting of you and other trans people. You might think this is a terf space, it’s not. you came here to cause trouble. You know that you did. You don’t have a high horse, but that doesn’t mean that I am dismissing what happened to you. It happened and it’s horrible. Just like I was raped. But you know what? I was raped in woman’s restroom by a cis gender man. Do you know how many times someone has tried to tell me I should be scared of trans people because they want to do that to me again? do you think I believe that? no, I don’t. Ever since the day it happened and it changed me forever I have not let a single antitrans asshole use it as one of their examples about why a trans woman shouldn’t be allowed in a female space or why a trans man shouldn’t be allow in a male space. I know how venerable you are. Everyone here does, we don’t tolerate the mistreatment and murder of trans people. But sugar we aren’t the ones doing it to you. No one here on this page wants to hurt you, but you came here with the intention to hurt others. To call feminism worthless and to down play peoples fears. you came into our space, we did not come into yours. Yes you are lucky to not have to face the same thing as me. That doesn’t mean your life has been easy. I don’t go into men’s right spaces though and tell them about how awful their movement is, you did that here because you want something from us. validation? entertainment? attention? you want something.

All i can give you is sympathy and pity that life has not been kind to you and to tell you I will continue to fight everyday until the world is safe for kids like you.

Last edited 9 months ago by Lainy
Naglfar
Naglfar
9 months ago

@Acid Kritana

If good feminists ever actually criticized the bad feminists

I criticize feminists I see as bad (those who are racist, transphobic, etc) all the time. This is common.

But do you have proof that MRA Gen Zers and LGBT Gen Zers are opposed? I have proof that they are connected, if not through putting numbers together. You have no proof that LGBT and MRA are opposed in Gen Z.

I have spent enough time in LGBTQ+ circles to know that every person I’ve talked to in those circles is apathetic towards or openly dislikes MRAs. Maybe you’ve been hanging out with very different LGBTQ+ people (most of my circle are gay or bisexual women and are progressive politically) but if your evidence is anecdotal I have equally much the other way.