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alpha males beta males misogyny red pill

Red Pillers stunned that women date guys who don’t go to the gym

Wait, what’s she even doing with that skinny beta in the first place?

A young Redditor called mookg is perplexed: He’s noticed that, contrary to what he’s learned from the Red Pill subreddit, some women seem to prefer dating men who don’t look like big, beefy gym rats. So he turns to the Ask The Red Pill subreddit for answers.

Why do some women date weak men?,” he wonders.

I have noticed in my social circle, A lot of girls like dating skinny weak men (typical bluepill). My sister also just got engaged to a guy who has 0 fashion sense and just works 9-5 and has never stepped foot into a gym. She is 30.

I want to understand the psychology behind these women as to why they prefer weak men.

Huh. Why might women prefer men who don’t know the first thing about the Red Pill? Might this commonly observed fact suggest that perhaps the Red Pill is not the infallible guide to female psychology that its practitioners claim? Maybe some women don’t want their partners to be alpha male assholes who live in the gym and spend their time strategizing online about the best ways to dominate and manipulate them? Maybe life is not a Charles Atlas cartoon?

Nope. According to the Red Pillers on hand to answer the question, a woman’s lack of interest in alphas just means that there’s something deeply wrong with her, not with the alphas she’s rejecting.

“[W]omen only date up,” responds someone called reduxDev.

The women you are discussing in this post are losers. …

A good amount of women actually avoid superficially attractive men because its obvious they have options. A guy being hot/cute, fashionable, or jacked can deter women seeking monogamy from even trying.

“Some women are just masculine inside and they want a weak man to dominate,” declares Stoic-Alpha-01.

“A lot of women don’t like the high maintenance of HVMs [High Value Males] and don’t want to compete with other women,” adds Noodlesoupe2.

These women usually are control freaks and like being above their man so they have absolute adoration and control. It’s an ego boost.

Or maybe there’s something wrong with the men, and the women in question just want “[p]ussies who give away their money and material things,” as one commenter puts it.

“Some of these men start off strong and then are slowly broken down to becoming weak,” explains kclanton80.

[O]thers are chosen specifically cuz they’re weak because the woman can control them and exploit them for their resources.

Or, I dunno, maybe some women think “alpha” dudes are self-centered, misogynistic assholes and would rather date someone as far from “alpha” as possible? Or maybe they just prefer skinny nerdy dudes to jocks?

Nah, couldn’t be that. These women have got to all be a bunch of losers and ball-busters.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

FWIW I prefer less muscular men. There’s something a little intimidating to me about overly ripped guys. I like muscular women, but that just doesn’t translate over for my attraction to men. I’d imagine I’m not alone in this assessment either.

A lot of girls like dating skinny weak men

I’m by no means an expert, but I don’t think skinny inherently equals weak. My sister is pretty thin but has lean muscle and is way stronger than I am. I’m also on the skinny side but not that strong.

She is 30.

Rather surprised he didn’t throw in a quip about her age.

A guy being hot/cute, fashionable, or jacked can deter women seeking monogamy from even trying.

These are rather different things. I guess someone could be cute and fashionable or fashionable and jacked, but in my eyes, for a man to be cute and jacked are rather opposed. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but I thought those two would be opposites.

Or maybe they just prefer skinny nerdy dudes to jocks

Something I’ve noticed is that nerdy men can sometimes be just as misogynistic as jocks. They manifest it differently, but there is definitely a possibility for misogyny and abuse there as well.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
Demonhype
Demonhype
1 month ago

@ Naglfar

Me too! Pansexual here, and big jacked guys don’t do it for me (though I’ve found some attractive due to other characteristics that overshadowed that for me, like brains or personality, etc), but skinny little nerdy guys are just so cute right out of the box. Yet I find women with muscles very attractive (and I swear that, though I lean toward men, if I ever met a real life woman anything like Scorpia from the She-Ra reboot, both image and personality, I’d fall instantly in love and never look back). So many characteristics I find attractive in women but not men or vice versa, and never the ones these jackasses insist I must be into.

Also, they never consider that my standard of cute, fashionable, etc may not be theirs. Because they, like my dad, seem to suffer from “I am the world and my standards are the world’s standards” mentality.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Demonhype

skinny little nerdy guys are just so cute right out of the box.

For sure. Also more likely to have common interests with me, as I’m also a bit nerdy leaning.

So many characteristics I find attractive in women but not men or vice versa, and never the ones these jackasses insist I must be into.

Same here. Although all kinds of people can be attractive, I prefer many of the characteristics that aren’t typically associated with a given gender. Like how I like masculine/butch women but don’t really have as much interest in overly masculine guys.

Also, they never consider that my standard of cute, fashionable, etc may not be theirs.

This is also important. I’ve known a lot of people who have very different ideas about fashion. To some it means wearing name brand casual items, to others it means always wearing an expensive suit, and anywhere in between. I’m still learning about fashion, I spent a lot of my life not really paying attention but am now starting to develop more style and knowledge.

rabid rabbit
rabid rabbit
1 month ago

Of all the possible reasons to not like your soon-to-be in-law…

.45
.45
1 month ago

@Naglfar

“I’m still learning about fashion, I spent a lot of my life not really paying attention but am now starting to develop more style and knowledge.”

Ditto here. I have found it much more interesting in the last few years, started to experiment with more old fashioned mens style, see what I find I like, what I don’t, etc. Retail therapy in the form of online shopping seems to help me a bit in the time of Covid, so I have intensified my efforts as of late.

Amusingly, for some degree of “amusing”, this seems to have raised a concern for my father. He mentioned my new found fondness for a good thick sweater as a possible indication that I am gay. Since I have not exactly been tearing up the dating scene with the ladies, it struck me that he might not be making casual conversation and could be fishing for an actual admission.

Naturally, though I am fairly straight, I decided to be me, and gave him nothing. Took something of a “Yeah, sure, whatever” attitude without any hints.

Let him wonder. Half my siblings have experimented a little here and there, it wouldn’t be a surprise…

Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
1 month ago

I find the marathon runner physique more attractive than muscle-bound weight-lifters, but respect, kindness and a sense of humour are far more important anyway.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
1 month ago

I want to understand the psychology behind these women as to why they prefer weak men.

You have certainly turned to the right source. Don’t talk to a couples counselor. Don’t read a book by a couples counselor. Don’t ask your friends who are dating skinny guys. And certainly don’t ask your sister. (That would be the worst option.) No, ask the guys who will never let you down: the guys who have swallowed the Red Pill, the guys who hate women.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
1 month ago

@Kat These guys don’t want to understand women. They want to manipulate and dominate them, and who better to coach them on that than a guy?

I dated a muscular gym rat once. He was a semi-pro football player. Decent guy, but overly focused on fitness. All he could talk about was workouts and muscles and protein shakes. His whole life revolved around staying in shape. I was bored silly, and he couldn’t relate to any of my weird interests. We just weren’t compatible, so we parted company amicably. Hopefully he found an equally enthusiastic fitness buff.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
1 month ago

OT but I just saw this joke going big on Twitter:

Christopher Levi Twitterissä: “@GOLDENCGP Him being Timo is the funniest part” / Twitter

And I don’t get the last part. (I’m curious because Timo is a normal Finnish man’s name)

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
1 month ago

Maybe mookg should just ask his sister about why she likes skinny guys?

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

Maybe mookg should just ask his sister about why she likes skinny guys?

Ask a woman something?

Yeah, right.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
1 month ago

Ah, here are the redpiller, projecting as always. Like the huge dick thing. Most women I know prefer skinnier types. My partner loves muscular arms (especially in women), but when it comes to dudes they generally prefer effeminate types. And elves.

Re: Attractiveness. Most men I’ve found attractive have been fairly fit, but not Professional-wrestler jacked. As for skinny, it really depends on the build and some other factors. One of the first things I pay attention too is voice, since I need to be pretty close to be able to really see facial features, so those are fun but not really the first thing I pay attention too. I also really dislike hair gel (both the feel and the look), so most of those hairstyles will plummet my interest pretty quickly (Except for Daniel Dae Kim. I prefer him without hairgel, but that is one of the sexiest men ever imo).

As for women, it goes all over the place. There’s certain styles that don’t appeal to me at all, but aside from that… I second the Scorpia sentiment, expecially that prom episode. Butch ladies in dresses and more femme women in suits are awesome.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Battering Lamb

My partner loves muscular arms (especially in women), but when it comes to dudes they generally prefer effeminate types. And elves.

I agree. I’m not opposed to muscular men, it’s just not my thing the way muscular women are.

Still, bodybuilders (men or women) don’t really do it for me, I guess because it’s all taken to an extreme (and IIRC is rather physically unhealthy).

Butch ladies in dresses and more femme women in suits are awesome.

Yes. I’ve never watched She-Ra (the original or the reboot) but I keep meaning to look into it if I have the time.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
1 month ago

@Naglfar: I highly recommend it. Just refreshing to see a show where the queerness of characters is just there. There’s no coming out, prejudice or closet-angst. Nobody bats an eye. The fact that it’s also just a really solid show and the voice-cast really nails it makes it even better.

Also, yeah, full body-builder mode doesn’t work for anyone. I always wonder if that much muscle inhibits your mobility. And it always looks weird if someone’s head is directly attached to their torso.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Battering Lamb

I always wonder if that much muscle inhibits your mobility.

I would imagine it does, especially seeing as many bodybuilders inject synthetic oil into muscles, which makes them appear larger but weakens them and adds dead weight. And then there’s the damage of the diet and routines they adopt, like bulking and shredding. And the steroids and the pseudoscientific additional stuff.

Re: heads, I also just think the proportions look strange when someone’s body is extremely muscular but their head is normal looking, it just looks small in comparison.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

I always wonder if that much muscle inhibits your mobility.

Wonder no more.

The term muscle-bound were coined in 1876 to describe that exact phenomenon.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

Yeah, add another to the “skinny nerdy guys are hotter” club.

@Naglfar I feel that. Physical strength advantage is a thing I have a much easier time trusting women with in a relationship than men, though… honestly I’ve had a couple bad experiences with very strong women too. But even then it’s a whole different experience. There’s a whole level of anxiety I have just being around huge blundering men, knowing how vulnerable I am and how casually violent they can be – and just how physically careless.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Cyborgette

There’s a whole level of anxiety I have just being around huge blundering men, knowing how vulnerable I am

I definitely feel this. There’s just something about that presence that can scare me a bit, especially if there’s no one else around. It’s also probably a part of why I never got into sports either as a participant or viewer, because that body type is very common in most sports.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

@Naglfar oh gods also mood. Gym class with basketballs flying everywhere, including being thrown at my face because I was nerdy and probably gay? Check.

See this is the funny and bitterly ironic thing, I’m into skinny nerdy guys now for a lot of the same reasons these Red Pill creeps are angry at “Chad”: this kind of physical bullying didn’t just die back in the 80s, and I got to see it very up close and personal. I know what it’s like to be constantly getting beat up and harassed for how I look, how I walk, how I talk. But now these nerdy guys are in their 30s, feeling like failures, and letting that anger drive them to embrace the same misogyny and homophobia that made the jocks such a horror show, and just… ugh SMH.

I’m so glad I’m bi and not straight. So, so glad.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Cyborgette

Gym class with basketballs flying everywhere, including being thrown at my face because I was nerdy and probably gay?

I remember that. I am terrible at every physical sport as well, which didn’t help. My elementary school gym teacher was a huge guy with a shaved head and who would openly berate any student who didn’t live up to his standards. Mostly I hung out on the sidelines doing the bare minimum to get credit. Middle school was the same thing with a different guy, and by the time I got to high school I figured out I could get around the gym credit requirement if I took marching band. That wasn’t great either, but it was better than playing more sports.

But now these nerdy guys are in their 30s, feeling like failures, and letting that anger drive them to embrace the same misogyny and homophobia that made the jocks such a horror show, and just… ugh

That’s what I was referring to in my first comment where I said nerds could be misogynistic as well. Despite fitting the profile for being nerdy I’ve stayed away from a lot of that community’s gatherings and events because of the misogyny and homophobia. I know too many people who’ve gone down that path.

I’m so glad I’m bi and not straight. So, so glad.

100%. I’m also bi but have a preference for women over men, so I mainly date women and am really glad I am not exclusively attracted to men.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

I like somewhat fit guys cause I’m a pretty active person myself. It’s nice to work out along side my husband, but the things I really love about him is his geek tendencies. We’re both fairly introverted. A night inside sounds a lot more appealing then going out. tbh with how much I am attracted to him it has really gone beyond just his body. I have never been more attracted to someone then I am my husband. if his appearance changed dramatically I would still be attracted to him and probably will be through out the rest of our lives.

As for fashion? yeah the man knows nothing about fashion. He doesn’t care about it. If you ever see a Hispanic looking man in Green basketball shorts and a bright orange t-shirt next to an overly dressed goth who looks like she took several hours to get her outfit and makeup just right, while he looks like he probably slept in his clothes, that’s my husband and i.

Bakunin
Bakunin
1 month ago

So women don’t want to “looksmatch” and all want to date Chad 10s, but also don’t want guys who are too hot because they have options? Glad we cleared that up

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
1 month ago

Ask a woman something?

Yeah, right.

It would require listening to her, so I guess that rules it out.

.45
.45
1 month ago

Concerning the bodybuilder thing being a mobility issue, I heard a long time ago that Arnold Schwarzenegger had to slim down for his role as Conan the Barbarian because he was so musclebound he couldn’t lift his arms above his head high enough to properly swing a sword. Guess there is a reason you rarely see bodybuilders successfully competing in other physical activities…

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
1 month ago

@Threp and Lukas,

Excellent points.

I’m also among the geeky skinny men are more attractive than the overly-muscled types. I just find it so ridiculous looking and the men I know who are ‘jacked’ are deeply unpleasant individuals with serious insecurities that they project on to everyone around them. I like men with muscle because they do actual physical labour rather than from spending their lives in the gym. That slim, proportionate muscle.

And my taste in other genders is all over the place. I really prefer funny, geeky, bookish people who respect my weirdness.

Viscaria, purveyor of briny slattern wine
Viscaria, purveyor of briny slattern wine
1 month ago

Red pill: Women are simple creatures of instinct. They are all programmed to look for the same things in men, regardless of what they may claim.

This guy: I noticed a bunch of women who don’t behave the way you told me all women behave.

Red pill: Sure. But those women… are bad.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

@North Sea Sparkly Dragon

I think that is the perfect way of putting it. Men who have muscles because their laborers is a lot different then the gym rats and I think that’s the type I’m attracted to.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 month ago

@Battering Lamb

I always wonder if that much muscle inhibits your mobility.

I read an article by… I want to say professional weightlifter, but it might have been a pro bodybuilder… wherein he said that when bulking and prepping for the Olympics (so it must have been weightlifting then) he was so impeded by his muscles that when he went to the toilet, he could not wipe his own ass. His wife had to do it for him.

Definitely a huge draw towards dating a jacked chad, having to wipe his ass…

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 month ago

Can someone explain why it’s bad if your ribs are showing?

Not that I’m feeling personally attacked or anything. I just keep running into this idea that your ribs showing means you’re super skinny (or that you “have to be anorexic”) whereas I always thought it’s a personal anatomy thing or something.

@Lumipuna
I’d also like to know what that Timo thing is about. The best I’ve come up with is it meaning a scam or something in Spanish, but I have no idea what that would have to do with anything.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

Can someone explain why it’s bad if your ribs are showing?

Never heard of that one, and my ribs have shown all my life.
There’s an upside to having a face as discourages idle chitchat, I guess.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
1 month ago

Re: Being skinny vs. fit vs. overly muscular

Speaking as a skinny nerd guy(TM), I somehow doubt most of these red pill ubermensch are actually that different looking from me.

Sure, the ones who make a big deal about lifting a lot probably do lift a lot, and do look muscular compared to someone like me. However, they’re hardly the kind of grotesque bodybuilder ideal that commenters here condemn as looking uncanny. That kind of massive muscle growth just isn’t feasible for most people. Rather, I think these red pill gymbros just identify so much with their precious physical superiority that you might mistakenly imagine them as looking somehow extreme. (Probably some of them are extremely muscular, but hardly most.)

Of course, that means they’re actually likely to look rather mainstream attractive in terms of physical fitness. So why are they unhappy? Because their physical fitness isn’t really that big an advantage in the dating market. It doesn’t fulfill the expectations set by their ubermensch superiority complex. It doesn’t satisfy their vague sense of sexual entitlement. It might not even offset their likely asshole personality (which is likely related to being a red piller rather than being a gym bunny or a non-nerd). This sense of unmet expectations is triggered every time they notice a perceived inferior male succeeding sexually.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Viscaria

Red pill: Women are simple creatures of instinct. They are all programmed to look for the same things in men, regardless of what they may claim.

This guy: I noticed a bunch of women who don’t behave the way you told me all women behave.

Red pill: Sure. But those women… are bad.

It fits exactly into their world view of women as being like robots. If women aren’t acting like they expect, we must be malfunctioning. By adding that auxiliary hypothesis, they can reframe anything as evidence of their view.

@Masse_Mysteria

Can someone explain why it’s bad if your ribs are showing?

Not that I’m feeling personally attacked or anything. I just keep running into this idea that your ribs showing means you’re super skinny (or that you “have to be anorexic”) whereas I always thought it’s a personal anatomy thing or something.

I don’t think it’s bad, mine are visible and I don’t think it has had any negative effect on me (especially since I’m wearing clothes that cover them most of the time). I think it’s just another bodily thing that varies from person to person and some people stigmatize it as part of reinforcing bodily image standards. In the case of men, it implies not being as muscular, which is viewed negatively by society.

@Big Titty Demon

he was so impeded by his muscles that when he went to the toilet, he could not wipe his own ass.

Well, at least that’s marginally better than the other guys we’ve talked about here who won’t wipe their own asses.

@Lumipuna

That kind of massive muscle growth just isn’t feasible for most people.

Indeed, this is why most actually strong sporting competitors like powerlifters don’t look that way. For most people (barring extremely rare variations that promote muscle hypertrophy), it’s not possible without steroids to look like a bodybuilder.

I think these red pill gymbros just identify so much with their precious physical superiority that you might mistakenly imagine them as looking somehow extreme.

That, and because the Internet allows people to exist anonymously, they can tell all their red pill bros that they’re jacked and none would be any the wiser.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ naglfar

You can build pretty big muscles without steroids; but there is a limit. Which appears to be a very well defined cut-off point that seems pretty much to apply for everyone.

It’s one way of detecting suspected PED use in ‘natty’ competitions. (The fact that there are competitions specifically for ‘natural’ bodybuilders gives a clue as to how prolific steroid use is.)

Some studies here if you like maths and charts (I could just about understand the abstract)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7496846/

Erica
Erica
1 month ago

Something I’ve noticed is that nerdy men can sometimes be just as misogynistic as jocks.

Same with feminine/GNC men. There’s a running joke on Twitter about how often femboys turn out to be virulently racist and misogynistic.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

@Big Titty Demon

Wait, he… didn’t just buy a bidet attachment?! With his literal Olympic athlete money?

*tired sigh*

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

So uh, mostly OT, but speaking of women (and everyone else) being into dudes who aren’t Chad.

I’m seeing all this stuff flying around the queerosphere now about Johnny Depp being innocent and Amber Heard being the actual abuser and uh… is it wrong that I’m going WTF and thinking this is bullshit? Didn’t Depp already have other records of being a creep? Has everyone just forgotten DARVO? Am I missing something? Because this feels like the exact same thing that happens whenever some beautiful male celeb turns out to be garbage, and millions of fans leap to his defense. Jared Leto, Michael Jackson, David Bowie… It all feels the same you know?

Last edited 1 month ago by Cyborgette
Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ cyborgette

Johnny Depp being innocent and Amber Heard being the actual abuser 

I get a few things on my Facebook from women’s rights groups; and it’s very much the same there. Which did seem surprising.

The justification is that, as feminists, they don’t hold men and women to different standards; which is fair enough. But if you read the judgement (link below) it’s pretty clear the judge got it spot on.

But believing the best about people we like and the worst about people we don’t, regardless of the actual evidence, is just a common human trait I guess.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2020/2911.html

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
1 month ago

A guess regarding “Timo”: I am not sure, not being a native English speaker (let alone being familiar with dialects/slang), but I would guess it isn’t about the word actually meaning anything, but more that “Timo” sounds like a bro-y nickname, along the lines of “Jimbo” or “Steve-o”. It would then presumably be humourous because that sort of nickname seems very at odds with the perceived character of Timothée Chalamet. At least, that’s my theory. It might be something else.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

With the Johnny Depp thing, I believe that Amber was an abuser and did things that weren’t right, But I also don’t think Johnny is completely innocent. With Toxic relationships it’s not uncommon for two people to abuse each other.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ lainy

I believe that Amber was an abuser 

Ah, that’s interesting. Do you mind if I ask how you came to that conclusion?

The reason I ask is that it was clear from the judgement that Depp’s PR team had set about trying to create this image.

You’re really smart; so I’m curious, for professional reasons, as to what factors influenced your opinion.

In the trial itself Depp only put forward two incidents where Heard was supposed to have assaulted him. Once when she was meant to have thrown a can at him and punched him; and another occasion where she was alleged to have cut off his finger.

The judge however found those not to be true. See below:

I find that Ms Heard was in her pyjamas as Ms Henriquez said (and as would be natural in the early hours of the morning). She did not have her purse with her (whether ‘purse’ for these purposes is as it would be understood in England or in the USA). I do not find that she threw a can of Red Bull at Mr Depp. As she admitted, she did punch him, but I accept that was in defence of her sister.

I do not accept that Ms Heard was responsible for the injury to Mr Depp’s finger. The first account appears to have been in Mr Depp’s text to Dr Kipper. It is notable in that text that he says he cut his finger, not that she cut it. Mr Connolly said that Mr Depp told him on his arrival that Ms Heard had caused the injury to his finger, but that is not what Mr Depp said in his text to Dr Kipper. Nor did Mr Depp say that Ms Heard had been responsible for the injury to his finger in either of his two texts to sister Christi on 8th March 2015. What exactly caused the injury is uncertain. Mr King spoke of there being a great deal of broken glass around and it may well be that Mr Depp accidentally cut his finger on a piece of broken glass. As is apparent from Mr Connolly’s evidence, there was much discussion on the way to the hospital as to what (false) explanation could be given. Mr Deuters is undoubtedly right that this was a potential public relations catastrophe for Mr Depp. It seems that the hospital was told that Mr Depp had cut his finger accidentally. I do not accept that this untrue account was given simply to spare Ms Heard as the real abuser.

What I find interesting is this is a bit like Trump’s tactics. Make lots of allegations in the press; run a somewhat more watered down version of events in court. But that gets people not accepting the court rulings; which can be beneficial in itself.

As to Depp himself; the judge quotes Depp’s own words. Depp sounds very much like some of the people David writes abut here.

She’s begging for total global humiliation. She’s gonna get it. I’m gonna need your texts about San Francisco brother … I’m even sorry to ask … But she sucked Mollusk’s [I assume a reference to Elon Musk] crooked dick and he gave her some shitty lawyers … I have no mercy, no fear and not an ounce of emotion or what I once thought was love for this gold digging, low level, dime a dozen, mushy, pointless dangling overused flappy fish market … I’m so fucking happy she wants to fight this out!!! She will hit the wall hard!!! And I cannot wait to have this waste of a cum guzzler out of my life!!! I met fucking sublime little Russian here … Which makes me realize the time I blew on that 50 cent stripper … I wouldn’t touch her with a goddam glove. I can only hope that karma kicks in and takes the gift of breath from her … Sorry man … But NOW I will stop at nothing!!! Let’s see if Mollusk has a pair … Come see me face to face … I’ll show him things he’s never seen before … Like the other side of his dick when I slice it off.’

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

Do you mind if I ask how you came to that conclusion?

Recall that she did get arrested for hitting her girlfriend, though charges were later dropped.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

@Alan

I came to that conclusion because the situation reminded me a lot of my own abuse. I was not the one who started the abuse, But there was a time where I threw a plastic water bottle that had been frozen at his head, And another time I slapped him across the face for something he had said. Granted, I was much younger then Amber was, I was a kid. But my abuse that was worse then the times i lashed out, does not make my behavior okay. It took a while to realize that in myself that it was abusive behavior and not justified. I learned how to work on my own temper so I would not go down the path of becoming an abuser myself. Amber is not a little girl, she is an adult woman, I’m recognizing that her actions we’re abusive behavior even if it wasn’t close to the same abuse she was suffering. Johnny Depp is not a good innocent person, I’m saying that right now. But I also hate the narrative that an abuse victim has to be an innocent perfect person for their abuse to be taken seriously and I think that narrative is being pushed for Amber. No one deserves to be abused, and just like a person doesn’t have to be a virgin for their rape to be serious, a person doesn’t have to be angel for their abuse to be wrong.

Plus the idea that she was in her jammies and there for she couldn’t possibly thrown a red bull at his head is really odd to me? I know I’m college student and an active person and I know it’s not healthy, but I have energy when I roll out of bed and have some toast like it’s coffee. And i know my husband in the military but the man chungs those things like a dog eats a piece of bacon that fell on the floor. People have energy drinks for breakfast and most people have breakfast in their pajamas when their getting ready. To me it feels like people are trying to water down her abusive behavior to try not to draw away the attention from Johnny who was the main abuser in that relationship. No is responsible for the abuse someone else commits against them, But how you respond to that abuse is on them. Like those people who physically attack their partners when they find out they cheated on them. The person is wrong for cheating, but that doesn’t give you the right to put your hands on them when they aren’t apposing a threat to you.

That was a long winded answer but I’m trying to make myself clear.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

@Therp

oh thank you, I didn’t know that happened. That’s really not good.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

I also want to recognize that some of the worst type of abuse (mine included), wasn’t even physically. the emotional trauma and grief from emotional abuse left marks that no one see’s and took a lot of work through therapy to work through. and there is a narrative that men aren’t suppose to be hurt by emotional abuse. It’s harder to prove emotional abuse because it doesn’t leave a physicals mark and is normally done in private. I think that is something that should be thought about as well.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ lainy

Thanks for that; and I appreciate this reminds you of your own trauma so I don’t want to drag any memories back.

The reason I brought this up is I’ve got a defamation case on at the moment. I can’t go into too many details. But in that it may be the claim is for tactical reasons and really the battle is going to be fought in the press. So it’s useful to know how effective that strategy might be.

What I’m trying to understand is how a narrative finds its way into the public consciousness. In the Depp trial, the actual case put forward is somewhat different from the statements given by the PR people. I understand what you say about ‘perfect’ victims. But on the evidence put forward there seems to be little to suggest Heard was abusive in any sense, not just physical.

For example, the story about her arrest was leaked to the press in response to Heard obtaining a restraining order against Depp. But as a result, the alleged victim made a statement saying there had in fact been no assault; and the whole thing was made up by a homophobic police officer. Which is why she refused to press charges and supported Heard’s efforts to get the record of the arrest deleted. It’s dealt with in the judgement from para 191.

But it does seem the strategy has worked. It’s not uncommon now for firms that do defamation work to also offer ‘reputation management’ services. So it can be less about the result of the litigation and more about what the general public is left believing. That enables for example Depp to keep his contract with Dior.

I think our case might be a similar strategy. The claimant can say “It’s all lies; and we’ve initiated libel proceedings”. The end result is less relevant than the plausible deniability and keeping contracts in the interim.

Thanks for your comments; they’re really helpful.

Last edited 1 month ago by Alan Robertshaw
Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

@alan

and my cousin husband beat her up and locked her in a room for two days, she pressed charges, he was arrested, he promised her it will never happen again so she dropped the charges and said she lied about it when she clearly did not. Sometimes abuse victims lie for their abuser because they are dependent on them.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

@alan

and you don’t have to worry about me. If this was to much for me to talk about I wouldn’t talk about it. I can talk about my trauma. I’ve gotten use to talking about my trauma. There are some details I’m not able to describe to people, even to a therapist but I can talk about it pretty easily now. The problems I normally have is when people who hear my trauma tell me it was my fault or that I deserved it or that they don’t believe me. Me opening up isn’t hard for me now, what’s hard is when I open up and people are cruel.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ lainy

Yeah. Pressure to make withdrawal statements is a common feature in DV cases. There are no perfect solutions. For a while here, prosecutors would summons (subpoena) victims. But then they were between a rock and a hard place. Risk retaliation for giving evidence; risk contempt proceedings for refusing to testify. Now the procedure is just to read their initial statement to the court. But in the absence of a victim it’s very hard to get a conviction.

And that “Well, you must have done something to provoke this” is also an all too common attitude. Like the “must have lead him on” in sexual assaults.

One thing I did appreciate in the Depp judgment was the judge did address a lot of the common DV myths, and debunked them. But ‘the court of public opinion’ is probably equally, if not more, paramount in practical terms.

Last edited 1 month ago by Alan Robertshaw
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
1 month ago

Speaking of Arnold Schwarzenegger (who I heard was the high end of what is possible size-wise when it comes to drug-free muscle building), last year he was doing an athletic promo thing in South Africa when this happened:

https://youtu.be/NEXRpEzgzAY

I’ll leave it to Alan to do a self-defense diagnostic on this incident, but there probably aren’t too many 71 year-olds who can ‘no sell’ that attack. In fact, his TV Tropes page had that listed as a real life example of the Made of Iron’ trope.

Last edited 1 month ago by Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Meani
Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ redsilkphoenix

Arnie has always been very open about his steroid use in his early career. At the time they were seen as a legitimate, and safe, aid to recovery after heavy training. But his best friend and training partner died from organ failure, and Arnie believes they may have contributed to his own heart bypass procedure. So now he’s very much an advocate for not using them.

As for the drop kick, what can one say? Other than it look like a really good way to break your own ankle. From a self defence perspective it perhaps demonstrates that situational awareness is more important than kung fu skills. But in that particular space it’s understandable if one is not watching one’s back (metaphorically and literally).

I like his response that people shouldn’t focus on the attack; and not let it detract from the athletes he was there to celebrate.

He was also pretty cool about his attacker…

“A lot of you have asked, but I’m not pressing charges. I hope this was a wake-up call, and [the attacker] gets his life on the right track.”

Last edited 1 month ago by Alan Robertshaw