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empathy deficit incels misogyny self-hatred

Incels wonder: “Is it even possible for females to have low self-esteem?”

Impossible scenario, according to incels

Incels feel so little empathy for women and girls that they simply refuse to believe that they could ever feel bad about themselves.

Over on the Incels.co forums, one unempathetic fellow called MaxZM98 wonders aloud if it’s “even possible for females to have a low self-esteem in 2020?” Naturally, he answers his own question with an emphatic “no.”

I’ve been wondering, is this even possible? since women are pedestalised and treated like queens even if they aren’t good looking, how can they not have an inflated ego?

I like how he assumes that only hot women deserve to feel good about themselves.

they may have their confidence reduced if chad insults them, and they could have a low self-esteem compared to other females, but they would still reject their looksmatch because they believe they are ‘above’ him and he is not worthy.

There’s no law saying that women (or men) are required to date their “looksmatches.” This is just an incel fixation.

all the positive reinforcement from society throughout their lives makes it impossible for them to think badly about themselves, at least to the extent that men do.

[Citation needed]

perhaps if she is obese and disfigured, and has been abused throughout her childhood…but that’s like 0.5% of the female population and even then she’d probably get hit up by desperate guys giving her validation.

Being “hit on by desperate guys” is not necessarily the fun ego-boost that incels assume it is. (Seriously, incels, spend an hour or two in the CreepyPMs subreddit and tell me again how much fun it is to get sleazy come-ons from horny weirdos.)

Of course, Max’s colleagues on Incels.co agree with him.

The only women with low self-esteem, one writes, are those with

[S]evere mental issues (like autism, BDD, BPD, etc.) or extreme ugliness/disabilities/chronic illnesses. Otherwise it’s (nearly) impossible, maybe after chad rejects her for a few moments sadness/doubt, but otherwise the positive reinforcement is too much. And even when they have severe issues they still live a dozen times better than their male counterparts or most males tbh. Mental illnesses and physical disabilities reduce the dating pool for women, but they aren’t fully excluded unlike their male counterparts.

Another adds that

Even the ugliest of women gets constant validation through social media 24/7. You’re average foid probably gets more validation per minute than we’ll get in our entire lifetime

Weird creepy messages from total strangers aren’t “validation.”

Trust me, incels, you don’t have a monopoly on feeling shitty about yourselves; the fact that you think you do is a large part why no one wants to get with you. Try a little empathy.

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freneticferret
freneticferret
9 days ago

Nice to know I’ve just been imagining the self-loathing all these years! Though with how strict their standards are, a lot of incels very well might consider me extremely ugly.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 days ago

since women are pedestalised and treated like queens even if they aren’t good looking

Once again, I wish I lived in the fantasy world that incels think the real world is like. It sounds like a much better place to live.

Even the ugliest of women gets constant validation through social media 24/7.

Mostly I just write random commentary and chat with people I know. If that’s validation, then I guess, but I don’t think it is.

epitome of incomrepehensibility

*lifts whine-glass to nose*
I am catching hints of:
-women are shallow creatures that constantly post selfies or whatever
-all of them do this, and all such activity comprises the whole of women’s personalities
-likes on social media are automatically validating
-MY PAIN IS THE ONLY REAL PAIN

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
9 days ago

Is it even possible for females to have a low self-esteem in 2020?

Not gonna lie: sometimes I wonder how smart I really am. Then I read some incel crapola and I realize, Damn! I’m a genius.

Lainy
Lainy
9 days ago

considering one time during a bdsm scene with my husband and I, When he had me tied up instead of hurting me he made me say good things about myself before he let me have pleasure and it was so hard for me i full on started sobbing and couldn’t get past 3 things without him helping, yes females can have deep rooted self esteem problems you piece of human garbage.

MV96
MV96
9 days ago

It makes sense that they think that because they also think that the moment they don’t receive attention from men, women become lesbian/bisexual.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
9 days ago

@Lainy: Thank you for your openness. My partner also has deep seated self-esteem issues. I’m sure these self-absorbed dingusses would call it attention-grabbing. So easy to dismiss pain when it isn’t your own.
It brings to mind cartesian thinkers attitude towards pain responses in animals, which boiled down to ‘it’s just how it functions, there’s no real feeling there’.
As for my own self-esteem issues, being trans they’d probably consider them more real because I’m ‘really a man (albeit a crappy one)’.

White Rose
White Rose
9 days ago

[S]evere mental issues (like autism, BDD, BPD, etc.) or extreme ugliness/disabilities/chronic illnesses. Otherwise it’s (nearly) impossible, maybe after chad rejects her for a few moments sadness/doubt, but otherwise the positive reinforcement is too much. And even when they have severe issues they still live a dozen times better than their male counterparts or most males tbh. Mental illnesses and physical disabilities reduce the dating pool for women, but they aren’t fully excluded unlike their male counterparts.

Ableism at its finest, yet they thought they are ugly because jawline and height. You can’t think you are a “victim” and at the same time blurted this nonsense. Its not about your look but your personality, and i cant point this enough to them to know because “feeeeeeeemales”

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
9 days ago

As far as I know, every women I know have been deemed ugly at some point more or less openly. The idea that women are so pedestralized that they cannot have ego problem don’t square with what I have seen.

Also, the infamous “you did super well for a girl !” ASSHOLE, I AM LITTERALY IN THE MEN COMPETITIVE RANKING, CAN’T YOU NOT DIMINISH THAT ?

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
9 days ago

Another day, another selection of rubbish from the trash heap that is inceldom.

I’d like to point out that 1. autism is not a mental illness, it’s a neurodivergency, 2. I know plenty of women with low self-esteem, 3. I also know plenty of disabled and mentally ill women who still manage to have healthy relationships, and 4. I know several autistic and mentally ill men in relationships.

If the exception proves the rule, then their rule of ‘women can’t possibly have no self-esteem’ and ‘disabled men are unable to get dates’, has been tested and proven wrong.

I know I’m far too logical, but I can’t help it. They’re wrong.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 days ago

@Battering Lamb

As for my own self-esteem issues, being trans they’d probably consider them more real because I’m ‘really a man (albeit a crappy one)’.

In a way it’s almost the reciprocal of the way that TERFs treat AFAB trans people: they claim to empathize with them because they’re “really women” but still treat them horribly and view them as victims of some “trans agenda.” Similarly the manosphere claims to sympathize with AMAB trans people because they claim to see us as men but still both hate us and also think we’re victims of feminism somehow (I’ve actually heard this argument from MRAs online that trans women are forced to transition because feminism).

Last edited 9 days ago by Naglfar
Naglfar
Naglfar
9 days ago

O/T, but it’s International Men’s Day today, so I’m curious what the manosphere spits out.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
9 days ago

@Naglfar
Every day is International Men’s Day.

Last edited 9 days ago by Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Gaebolga
Gaebolga
9 days ago

@Naglfar

I’m guessing they’re gonna ask why there isn’t an International Men’s Day, then start whining about misandry…

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 days ago

@Kat

Every day is International Men’s Day.

True, I meant today is the one that gets called that by various organizations. It’s also the day I can point out if some MRA asks “when is international men’s day?” AFAIK it only exists for that reason.

As a result, I recommend instead using today as UN International Toilet Day, which focuses on people who do not have access to safe sanitation.

@Gaebolga
They usually do that part around International Women’s Day, IIRC that’s when searches for “International Men’s Day” are the highest.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
9 days ago

A happy International Men’s Day to all and any men who might be reading this, and especially to Mr. Richard Herring: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/comedian-replies-to-every-person-asking-when-is-international-mens-day-on-twitter-a3785081.html

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
9 days ago

A happy International Men’s Day to all and any men who might be reading this …

Well, I’m miffed. Not a single Mens Day card has arrived for me today. Some sort of day this has turned out to be. 🙁

I did get a flyer in the post for a local plumber today though …

Lainy
Lainy
9 days ago

@Battering Lamb

It was a pretty eye opening experience. I’ve never cried during anything sexual my husband I had done before that. it wasn’t just a few tears either. I was sobbing. I sobbed for like an hour after the sex was done and he was just holding me. It was the first time I ever really needed after care and he didn’t even hurt me. he just made me complement myself and then make me agree to complements he was giving me for like an hour. if that doesn’t show how deep self loathing can go for a person I’m not even sure what is.

The idea that this is suppose to be fixed because some random dude on the street tells me he likes the way my ass shakes while i walk if laughable. I’ve been with my husband for 3 years now and he looks at me with such love and adoration and it has only been recently that I’ve believed him when he says nice things about me. I had to learn to let him love. I had to heal enough to let another person love me completely because my issues were so deep I didn’t believe i deserved such a deep affectionate love.

It takes years of work for me to start even to be okay with the body I was in. It took longer to actually start to like the way I look. It takes that work and the love of the person I considered my soul mate to start to like things about me that aren’t physical. The fact that incels think problems like that can be solved by some random horny men online or on the street just shows how utterly disconnected they are from reality and how much they really don’t see women as people but a breathing doll who’s online desire is to want people to find them pretty.

Spaghetti
Spaghetti
9 days ago

Not like women have much empathy for guys like us either.

You prolly wouldn’t be spending your life watchdogging online misogyny if a woman empathized enough to sleep with you.

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
9 days ago

Mental illnesses and physical disabilities reduce the dating pool for women, but they aren’t fully excluded unlike their male counterparts.

I have to wonder whether most members of the incel community would consider themselves “fully excluded” from dating market. Seems that not many of them have legit disabilities, since they generally keep whining about trivial things, like being slightly shorter than average or having suboptimal facial bone structure. This is pretty much the first I’ve heard of them acknowledging that a) seriously disabled people exist b) they include women c) such disabilities might hinder one’s dating life more than just being ugly by Instagram standards.

(For the record, I don’t think disabled people are “fully excluded” from dating market, but let’s go with the incel logic here)

On the occasion incels have come here seeking pity, they tend to claim their community represents some small percentile of mythical “undateable” men. When they talk among themselves, they claim to represent some large demographic of ordinary if relatively unattractive men, most of whom have been brainwashed or silenced by abusive society. They contrast themselves against “Chads” rather than “normies”. They frequently talk about “ascending” and “maxxing” while complaining they were doomed from birth.
Generally, they refuse to acknowledge that someone else might have it worse.

Penemue
Penemue
9 days ago

Incels can kiss my depressed, socially anxious ass.

(Not literally, of course. I wouldn’t want an incel within 1,000 miles of my ass.)

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 days ago

@Lumipuna

they refuse to acknowledge that someone else might have it worse.

Of course not. That would break their victim complex and that leaves the door open for the rest of their world view to collapse. I’d imagine most incels would consider themselves disabled because they likely think that having narrow wrists or a certain canthal tilt is a disability.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
9 days ago

@Lainy: All I can say is I’m happy you have a partner like that. I aspire to be similar for my partner (and they tell me I am), and luckily they take their issues seriously and is seeing a therapist. They’ve gotten a long way, and still has a ways to go. I do what I can (minus the bdsm, I don’t think either of us would be a dom and it’s not really something we pursue. Not to knock it, btw. Again, I appreciate your openness.)
@Naglfar: It’s weird how that works, isn’t it? Most peculiar /sarcasm. Well, wouldn’t expect enlightened thought from bigots. As for ‘feminism forcing us to transition’… It actually held me back for a long time. I really internalized the ‘am I just some pervert invading female spaces?’ rethoric really got under my skin. We can play ‘no true scotsman’ all we want, but a lot of people see terfs as feminist (especially the terfs themselves). The fact remained that I doubted whether I was a ‘bad’ feminist for having these feelings. Also, I find it kind of entertaining that International Men’s Day is in the middle of Transgender Awareness Week. That’ll probably make some teeth grind.

Some Chick
Some Chick
9 days ago

I want to live in this alternate universe where women are put on pedestals and apparently nothing bad ever happens to them.

Cindy
Cindy
9 days ago

Happy International Men’s Day, ladies! Of course, *every* day is men’s day in our patriarchal hellworld, but don’t point that out to the fragile incels!

Lainy
Lainy
9 days ago

@cindy

hey you still want autistic people to be sterilized and think a lot of innocent people should die of covid because of where they did? yes? then shut up cindy.

Cindy
Cindy
9 days ago

@Lainy

Hope you’re having a good day too 🙂

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 days ago

@Battering Lamb

As for ‘feminism forcing us to transition’… It actually held me back for a long time. I really internalized the ‘am I just some pervert invading female spaces?’ rethoric really got under my skin.

For me it both held me back but also did help me at the same time. I can relate to what you describe, a lot of the feminist circles I was in did have some essentialist streaks running through. At the same time, (other) feminist spaces also were where I met other trans people and learned about their experiences and started to unpack my own in relation.

We can play ‘no true scotsman’ all we want, but a lot of people see terfs as feminist (especially the terfs themselves).

Even among people who aren’t TERFs, I find that a lot of liberal cishet feminists have some subtle transphobia (e.g. spelling “trans women/men” as one word, referring to cis women as “regular,” ignoring trans men’s existence + reproductive needs, etc). Many are also resistant to listening to trans perspectives or corrections on these.

Naglfar
Naglfar
9 days ago

@Spaghetti

Not like women have much empathy for guys like us either.

I have empathy for non-awful men. I don’t have much for men who would like to see me raped and/or killed.

You prolly wouldn’t be spending your life watchdogging online misogyny if a woman empathized enough to sleep with you.

You’d probably find more women interested in you if you weren’t a misogynist.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
9 days ago

I still remember how amazed I felt this one time early in our marriage. I was moving from the hallway to our living room, and Mr. Parasol looked up from the couch and said, “God, I want you.” Let us draw a veil over the rest of the narrative.

But I don’t mind sharing my utter bewilderment. I was wearing an old pair of shorts and an old shirt of his he’d given me, no makeup, hair probably ruffled because it doesn’t stay tidy … but to Mr. Parasol, I was the most desirable woman on the planet. The incels would probably bray that I shouldn’t have low self-esteem, but at that point I still very much did.

I’m better, but I still think every day with Mr. Parasol is a gift.

Lainy
Lainy
9 days ago

@Cindy.

I can’t, i have covid that you think i should die from because of the state i live in, you jerk.

Lainy
Lainy
9 days ago

@spagetti

Your right, i have no empathy for you because incels want me dead for not fucking them. Die a virgin for all I care.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
8 days ago

It’s been a while since we had a sad boner troll. This one’s not putting in enough effort so far for me to respond though.

Luzbelitx
8 days ago

Seriously, incels, spend an hour or two in the CreepyPMs subreddit and tell me again how much fun it is to get sleazy come-ons from horny weirdos.

I don’t think they need to. I think it’s them sending those messages….

Chris Oakley
Chris Oakley
8 days ago

Just a hunch, but our friend Spaghetti seems to have a chip on their shoulder big enough to qualify for its own zip code.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
8 days ago

I have seen that, and I am sure pretty much everyone except spagetthis need to see it :

comment imagev

What are goat. How can they be.

(and the gif don’t seem to work. Gallery here : https://imgur.com/gallery/09ZeNON it’s the first one)

Last edited 8 days ago by Ohlmann
Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
8 days ago

@ Victorious Parasol :
 
“Sexiness” as a quality tends to be very contextual, and also subjective, which can occasionally lead to mixed results like this mental-health PSA. Casting Ben Mendelsohn as the personification of an anxiety disorder is one thing, but having him gaze into the camera and murmur things like “I am the hand… that cracks the whip… that sets your heart racing” led some viewers to experience feelings that were definitely not anxiety.

Naglfar
Naglfar
8 days ago

@Moon Custafer
That was something, all right. On some level I feel like that could have been intentional, it would be hard to accidentally make that without realizing the other interpretations.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
8 days ago

@Naglfar:

The only possibility I can think of is that it occurred to absolutely nobody involved that there’s some overlap between the “gentleman Bond villain” tropes and some kinks. OK, the other possibility is that this occurred to *some* people involved, and they decided not to say anything for reasons of their own.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
8 days ago

@Moon Custafer : “some reason” being that there’s entirely too many groups where speaking against the leader is costly, so you only do it when it’s very important.

There is no need for doctor Raoult level of personality cult for that to happen. And I believe creative types are more likely to induce that phenomen, so it happen more easily on publicity, marketing, and PSA like here than on, say, nuclear plant planning. Albeit it have happened on nuclear plant planning.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
8 days ago

@Ohlmann:

GOAT MASSAGES!!! 😀

Paireon
Paireon
7 days ago

As a 41-year-old cishet virgin man who never had a girlfriend, with self-esteem issues, one or two depressions under my belt, and Asperger’s, there is one thing that, every single day, never fails to lift my oft-flagging morale a bit:

That I am not, never have been, and never will be, so terrible a waste of human biomatter as incels are. Stop blaming women. Stop blaming your “ugliness”. Stop blaming Chad (although you don’t do that much which kinda shows your true colors as bitter misogynists). Stop being assholes playing the victim while constantly circlejerking and goading each other to be the most miserable pieces of shit you can imagine. Stop obsessing over sex with the opposite gender as the be-all, end-all of human experience. Stop viewing women as a means to an end then projecting on them your disgusting views, as if it justified them. Stop whining about manlet genocide. Stop cringing about the babies you’ll never have that you’re sorely lacking in the qualities necessary to raise properly anyway.

Not that most of you will listen. Better to circle down the drain to utter misanthropic nihilism than risk the pain of looking in a mirror and realizing your shit thoughts, words and deeds (therefore yourselves) are responsible for 90%+ of your own woes, amirite? Because you might be convinced to try and get up and out of the gutter and actually better yourselves otherwise, and you can’t have that, because that’d be admitting defeat, that women might have a point in declining to deal with pathetic losers too cowardly to shoulder their share of the responsibility for their woes, and too lazy to try and actually improve their lot.

Fenwick
Fenwick
7 days ago

@ Paireon
Most women would rather live under a legit incel government than live your life dude. Idk why you worry about them so much.

Ok so they may get forced into virginity and a smaller social life, but you’re already living like that anyway, and you seem all the happier for it. Women can learn to enjoy that life too.

Also there’s no distinction between a 40 yo virgin and an incel outside the internet, we’re both loser rejects all the same.

Last edited 7 days ago by Fenwick
.45
.45
6 days ago

@ Fenwick

Well, aren’t you just a ray of sunshine…

Dare I ask what an Incel government would look like? Legally requiring hot sixteen year old Stacies to get it on with whoever wants them? Free plastic surgery for anyone who feels their looks are holding them back? Chads being forced to wear chastity belts and masks to limit their options? Women being fined for wearing not enough makeup or too much makeup, being too fat, too ugly, etc?

Naglfar
Naglfar
6 days ago

@Fenwick
Woman here, I would not want to live under “incel government.” I prefer having some basic human rights, thank you.

Also there’s no distinction between a 40 yo virgin and an incel outside the internet, we’re both loser rejects all the same.

The difference is that many people manage to find satisfaction in their lives without sex, while you incels seem very unhappy because you just stew in hate all day. You’ve decided you’re a loser, not society.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
6 days ago

@Fenwick

Most women would rather live under a legit incel government than live your life dude.

Uh, no. I want to live under a competent government that works for its citizens, and incels don’t demonstrate a whole lot of competence at anything beyond whinging and desperate rationalizations.

.45
.45
6 days ago

@ Victorious Parasol

Ummmmm… I don’t know where you live and what kind of government you have now, but let’s just say in my neck of the woods… well, we could use some improvement.

Lainy
Lainy
6 days ago

@Fenwick

I would rather die. Yeah I would rather die then live in a world where I’d probably be raped by incels because they decided my husband is a chad and I’m hot so i should be having sex with incels and be “happy” about it. Your one sick little fuck.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
6 days ago

@.45

Oh, there’s definitely room for improvement in my neck of the woods as well. But it’s not going to come from incels taking power. I wouldn’t trust a group of incels to organize a potluck.