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Happy “MGTOWs kvetch about sexy Halloween costumes” Day

Ladies! Oppress the MGTOWs with this sexy poop empji costume

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Adults tend to celebrate (non-pandemic) Halloween in one or more distinctly different ways. They may dress up in elaborate costumes and go to parties. They may stay at home to provide candy to all the miniature goblins that wander by — or take their own miniature goblins out on a candy-collecting mission. Or they might turn off all their lights and hide in the dark until trick-or-treating is over.

Men Going Their Own Way have a different way of celebrating: going online to complain about women dressed in sexy costumes.

No MGTOW seems to have complained quite so loudly or longwindedly on this subject as one YouTube MGTOW called sunrisehoodie, who delivered up a more than 2000-word manifesto on the subject several Halloweens ago (but which I just ran into today; if it’s new for me it’s probably also new for you.)

Sunrisehoodie starts his pronouncements with an attack on a USA Today piece from 2017 on the omnipresence of sexy costumes for women. While some women see donning a sexy nurse outfit as liberating, a way to show of the sexuality they normally repress, the story notes,

others say sexy Halloween is a farce, something that tricks women into thinking they have choices, but which shamelessly pressures them into parading around as debauched nuns and doe-faced dolls for men’s enjoyment.

It’s a complicated question because, on the one hand, women are making the choice to see and feel sexy but on the other, as sociologist Lisa Wade notes in a piece quoted in the USA Today article, they’re making this choice “within a system” of patriarchy that objectifies women. Neither choice comes without sexist baggage. “Every year,” the article concludes,

women all over America are faced with an absurd choice and find themselves in yet another double bind: Dress sexy on Halloween and risk being judged or harassed, or forgo the fishnets and risk being ridiculed or ignored.

Sunrisehoodie barely seems to comprehend the argument, though he agrees with one thing: the choice is being made within a system. But for him that system isn’t patriarchy but “gynocracy.” As he sees it, women dressing in sexy costumes are exercising power over men.

“[W]omen that are wearing these costumes are on a power trip,” he complains.

Regardless if they’re attractive or not, they know that they will get attention, good or bad, from men when they dress up as a provocative schoolgirl on Halloween. …

When women get attention from men, their brains code it as sexual worth and sexual power – which has value because it means that they have a man that is willing to use them to pass on their genes.

It always comes back to half-baked evo psych for these guys.

Sunrisehoodie then tries his hand at metaphor:

Women are putting things on the shelves for sale and they want us to be interested in the discount pricing but when we bring it to the register they are giving us a different price than what it says on the shelf and then they won’t ring it up. They dismiss you and they laugh at you, all for a rush and all for praise.

Sunrisehoodie’s argument is more than a little reminiscent of Men’s Rights guru Warren Farrell’s comments about the “miniskirt power” and “cleavage power” that secretaries supposedly have over their bosses. Indeed, Farrell was so taken by this notion of his that he chose to represent female power in the form of a nude woman on the cover of the e-book version of his Men’s Rights bible “The Myth of Male Power.”

“Women actually possess the control,” sunrisehoodie asserts.

The shame is that … the media, the education system and bar culture continues to make the claim that they don’t have the power. We are living in an age when the woman … flaunting her body has more power than it has ever had before. It’s going throughout the corners of the earth and is stalking us to claim the newest man and to assess its power over morality, over wholesomeness and over society.

A halloween costume is doing all that?

The shame is that these women that are complaining over the inability to be sexually liberated fail to realize that they already have been sexually liberated. They have already been freed, and they are continually asking for something that they already have. Men are giving women jobs over their lack of clothing …

Wait, what? Women are showing up for job interviews nude now?

[W]omen are making millions every day as models on Instagram, Flipagram and every other gram out there. The fact that their sexual marketplace value isn’t having value and isn’t being recognized as something that they own is a lie and it is creating entitlement for women and confusion and destruction for men.

As histrionic as he sounds already, he’s just getting warmed up.

This is not sexual liberation. This is not liberation at all. This is imprisonment, and if that is what society continues to want and asks for with each year’s new edition of the sexy nurse, then let them have it, get your candy bar, which I prefer a protein bar anyway, and walk far away.

Sunshinehoodie concludes that men should spend Halloween all by themselves, hidden away from these power-hungry women in their sexy costumes.

[O]n Halloween, on Friday nights when girls are going out on the town, stay in your apartment, your home, your car, wherever you live, and be at peace … Don’t invest and pour out energy into that which will rot, which are these women that are expecting praise on this dark, Halloween night.

I would suggest that MGTOWs do this every other day of the year as well — really, any strategy that involves them not coming into contact with the rest of us is a good one in my book.

Happy Halloween to the rest of you!

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Mrs. Obed Marsh
Mrs. Obed Marsh
24 days ago

Women are putting things on the shelves for sale and they want us to be interested in the discount pricing but when we bring it to the register they are giving us a different price than what it says on the shelf and then they won’t ring it up. They dismiss you and they laugh at you, all for a rush and all for praise.

I don’t think that’s how stores work.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
24 days ago

I’ll just leave Sexy Freddy Krueger right here, to oppress all of you Regular Male Freddy Kruegers.

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Dalillama
24 days ago

I was just seeing an article the other day about how sales of Sexy [whatever] costumes are in the toilet this year.

Naglfar
Naglfar
24 days ago

I don’t dress up for Halloween so I’m not wearing a sexy costume, but one thing I will lament is the rarity of non-sexualized costumes for women and girls. Even for young girls costumes seem a lot more sexualized than those made for boys of the same age. And while I’m sure some people find it liberating to wear a sexy costume, I feel like it should be a choice rather than the only option.

which has value because it means that they have a man that is willing to use them to pass on their genes

Maybe this is a thing for some, but I’ve never gotten attention from a stranger and thought “I want to be used to pass on genes.” I mean, I don’t have a uterus so I’m limited in that regard, but that line of thought has just never occurred to me regarding some complete stranger.

Women are putting things on the shelves for sale and they want us to be interested in the discount pricing but when we bring it to the register they are giving us a different price than what it says on the shelf and then they won’t ring it up. They dismiss you and they laugh at you, all for a rush and all for praise.

Now I’m just confused. Does this happen a lot to MGTOWs when they go shopping?

the media, the education system and bar culture

Of course, who can forget the all-powerful influence of bar culture.

It’s going throughout the corners of the earth and is stalking us to claim the newest man

Dude, lay off the metaphors, you’re not any good at them.

Men are giving women jobs over their lack of clothing

Most people work with clothes on. The only exceptions I can think of are various kinds of sex workers. I guess if you work from home you can be naked if you want (though probably not during video calls) but in every workplace I’ve been to, people had clothes.

[W]omen are making millions every day as models

Misogynists seriously overestimate how much the average online model makes. The other day I saw one claim that most women on OnlyFans make $4,000 a week.

This is imprisonment, and if that is what society continues to want and asks for with each year’s new edition of the sexy nurse, then let them have it, get your candy bar, which I prefer a protein bar anyway, and walk far away.

Just go your own way already, weirdo.

Lainy
Lainy
24 days ago

They’ll love mine. This year I was a sexy Victorian widow

rabid rabbit
rabid rabbit
24 days ago

@Policy of Madness:

MISANDRY!!! Why doesn’t the woman get her face burnt off, huh? Huh? Huh?

(Not shown in photo: the vagina dentata attachment that comes with the lady’s glove.)

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
24 days ago

Don’t invest and pour out energy into that which will rot, which are these women that are expecting praise on this dark, Halloween night.

Dude, guess what. Once you die — and you will die — if your body goes into the ground, it will rot. Eventually. Or maybe your body will be turned to ashes. Not much difference.

Have you thought about charm school. You know, to help you get along better with others so that you have more fun while you’re still alive.

occasional reader
occasional reader
24 days ago

Hello.
Well, with the extended reconfinement we are going through here, Hallowen night was more holloween night… Now i have a stock of sweets i do not know what to do with.
That and the second terror attack, October was not that great.

And about MGTOW, how many really enjoy seeing those “accursed” sexy costumes ? Quite a lot, i guess. If it was a meme, it can be said that their hypocrisy, it is over 9000 !

Anyway, everybody stay safe ! Far from covid and assholes !

Not Edward
Not Edward
24 days ago

I suspect the whole “argument” comes down to “women in sexy Halloween costumes are giving me feelz in my pants but then won’t have sex with me”. The “power” of women they resent is, as always, the “power” to choose who to have sex with, and the one uncomfortable truth all the complicated evo-psych BS is intended to cover up is that they are being left out in the cold because, given the choice, people will generally only want sex with those who aren’t assholes, are nice to them and actually genuinely like them.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
24 days ago

I’m trying to remember where I saw this site before. Maybe someone else will recognize the description? It was a website dedicated to non-sexy Halloween costumes for women, complete with suggestions on how to make them.

BTW, I love how many children were dressing up as RBG this year.

PTforever
PTforever
23 days ago

Leaving aside Mr. Hoodie’s ridiculous argument…I’m not sure I do fully agree with the article he took exception to. Yes, there’s an immense amount of “sexy” Halloween getup for women, but I’m not sure that amounts to social pressure to wear it. (In most settings. I was never part of a college sorority, and some friend groups may invent their own pressure, I guess?) But generally, the media and most online chatter seems to deride those costumes. When women have creative or high-effort costumes that aren’t sexy (or even ones that are), I see the skill and effort being praised, which is basically what you’d expect. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of “ridicule” for non-sexy costumes outside of the movie Mean Girls. And I’ve been to a lot of Halloween parties wearing a lot of different outfits. As for being “ignored”…well, you can’t really put that at the level of a social injustice, unless your own friends decide to shun you. But trust me, women who aren’t deemed conventionally attractive can’t get positive attention just by wearing sexy costumes, either. I’ve seen heavier friends of mine fail to turn heads wearing tight, cutout leather while my conventionally beautiful friend had guys falling over her in a onesie. The thing is the costumes didn’t really have much bearing on it. There’s definitely media and real life abuse for women who go out dressed sexy in any context…Mr. Sunshine here in point. But that’s it’s own well-known social problem, and it’s always seemed like every woman/girl I’ve known has done literally anything she wanted when it came to Halloween. This is one area where I’ve never felt like the cultural bias really seemed serious irl.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
23 days ago

In France, they would not be oppressed since, generally speaking, we don’t celebrate Halloween (well, the supermarket make their best to remind us that it exist and that we should buy stuff, but it didn’t take much hold).

It’s one of the big cultural difference between USA (and England here) and the rest of Europa. I find that the biggest one in term of impact tend to be linked to youngs and how they are educated. When I was young, I remember how pretty much everything suddenly warped to bizarro land as soon as a movie or TV show either showcased a college or a bunch of twenty something trying to have fun.

(of course, I guess the MTGOW here are not all young either)

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
23 days ago

It’s kind of weird that the Sexy Nurse costume with the white dress and little cap still lingers on, as it references an archaic idea of how nurses dress. A modern sexy nurse costume should incorporate scrubs and crocs.

Naglfar
Naglfar
23 days ago

@LindsayIrene
I’d imagine that’s because people are used to that costume design and don’t want to change it. In the same vein, most girls don’t wear school uniforms anymore but “sexy schoolgirl” costumes are still popular.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
23 days ago

Or how the “save” icon looks like a computer disk. (I suppose “sexy hard disk” could be an interesting costume idea.)

Alan Robertshaw
23 days ago

@ lindsayirene

Sexy Nurse costume with the white dress and little cap 

This is the time of year when I get to point out that anyone wearing a nurse costume that has a red cross on it, is committing a war crime under the Third Protocol to the Geneva Conventions.

Seriously. It’s why first aid kits now tend to have green/white crosses on instead.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
23 days ago

A lot of product are design to appeal to adults by refering to how thing were when they were young. So publicity and marketing is late by design by 20-30 years.

In the case of nurses, there’s also the fact people don’t often go to the hospital, so their ideas of what it’s like is often more informed by TV series, movies, and pornos. TBH people often give the feeling they purposefully forgot everything about school, so maybe that explanation is valid for schoolgirl too.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
23 days ago

@Alan : I need more context for your claim. It’s not outrageous or anything, but it really look like something that is reasonable as long as you know the context, which I don’t.

Alan Robertshaw
23 days ago

@ ohlmann

It’s to do with “Protected Symbols’. These are signs that highlight areas, material, or personnel that are entitled to certain protections under the Geneva Conventions. The Red Cross is one of the symbols.

The Third Protocol added the red crystal symbol to the list, and clarified the rules (which are actually to be found in the First Convention).

There was concern that using the symbols in a non-protected context might dilute them a bit. It is an offence under International law to use them in an inappropriate context. So word went out and most people who had been using them changed them. Hence first aid kits etc. But presumably fancy dress manufacturers need time to adapt.

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ETA: Ooh, that’s a bit big, sorry. Although it’ll be a handy cutout if you need one of the symbols.

Last edited 23 days ago by Alan Robertshaw
Naglfar
Naglfar
23 days ago

@Moon Custafer

Or how the “save” icon looks like a computer disk. (I suppose “sexy hard disk” could be an interesting costume idea.)

I am just old enough to remember 3.5″ diskettes, so the save icon makes sense to me and most people older than me, but one thing I’ve thought about is how for someone born after floppy disks fell out of use, it probably won’t have any mental association other than “save file.” I’ve seen proposals to replace it with other images like a marine life preserver ring, but at this point I think we should just keep the well-known one of the disk.

@Ohlmann

In the case of nurses, there’s also the fact people don’t often go to the hospital, so their ideas of what it’s like is often more informed by TV series, movies, and pornos.

In the case of the latter, the mainstream porn industry seems to have codified the image of the “sexy nurse” around the 1970s and so that seems to have become the norm for costumes as well.

@Alan
Just checked my first aid kit and it has a red cross. Apparently Johnson and Johnson didn’t get the memo.

I was under the impression that to be a war crime, it had to be done during a time of armed conflict. So unless the first aid kits or nurse costumes are being sold in a war zone, I’m not sure if it would qualify.

Last edited 23 days ago by Naglfar
numerobis
numerobis
23 days ago

So that explains why European pharmacies have green crosses. It doesn’t seem to be taken as seriously in North America.

Alan Robertshaw
23 days ago

@ naglfar

It’s in peacetime too. I guess that’s partly because ‘indicative’ use of the emblems is permitted even in peacetime; but maybe also so that there wouldn’t have to be some big rush to change everything in the event of a conflict?

ARTICLE 44 

With the exception of the cases mentioned in the following paragraphs of the present Article, the emblem of the Red Cross on a white ground and the words “Red Cross”, or “Geneva Cross” may not be employed, either in time of peace or in time of war, except to indicate or to protect the medical units and establishments, the personnel and material protected by the present Convention and other Conventions dealing with similar matters. 

Above is the bit in the First Convention; and below is the bit in the Third Protocol that relates to enforcement.

Article 6 Prevention and repression of misuse

1.The provisions of the Geneva Conventions and, where applicable, the 1977 Additional Protocols, governing prevention and repression of misuse of the distinctive emblems shall apply equally to the third Protocol emblem. In particular, the High Contracting Parties shall take measures necessary for the prevention and repression, at all times, of any misuse of the distinctive emblems mentioned in Articles 1 and 2 and their designations, including the perfidious use and the use of any sign or designation constituting an imitation thereof.

Last edited 23 days ago by Alan Robertshaw
LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
23 days ago

This is the best ‘slutty’ Halloween costume and you will never change my mind:
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NautaliaC
NautaliaC
23 days ago

@Naglfar

In the case of the latter, the mainstream porn industry seems to have codified the image of the “sexy nurse” around the 1970s and so that seems to have become the norm for costumes as well.

I don’t think it’s ever been accurate, even if you throw in the hat. What’s so sexy about a sweaty woman who’s been on the clock for 16 hours in between anxiety attacks from all the surgeons and doctors yelling at her as she’s trying to make enough money to make sure her family gets through the week?

I’m certain I know where the sexy part comes in and it doesn’t exist except in lawsuits and a minority of incidents; a hot nurse taking advantage of a (usually male) patient is just another porn trope like plumbers and pizza delivery guys. To be honest, if someone wants to do that costume it’s far more akin to porn than a mockup of real life. In they don’t understand that, men or women, chalk it up to another case of assuming the real world works like a fantasy porn world.

This is just a personal opinion of mine and I’m certain others might disagree, but it’d be nice to make a decision, sexy/not sexy, without judgment either way. Caricatures of porn outfits aside, isn’t it all for fun?

Last edited 23 days ago by NautaliaC
Naglfar
Naglfar
23 days ago

@NautaliaC
I know it’s not accurate, I was just saying that’s when the image seems to have entered the public consciousness. I think most people probably know that real nurses’ uniforms don’t look like the sexy nurse costumes, but don’t really care.

This is just a personal opinion of mine and I’m certain others might disagree, but it’d be nice to make a decision, sexy/not sexy, without judgment either way. Caricatures of porn outfits aside, isn’t it all for fun?

I agree, but I think it should be a choice. I’ve noticed it’s actually fairly hard to find women’s costumes that aren’t oversexualized. It’s sort of the point this comic makes (not as NSFW as other Oglaf comics but is still Oglaf). In an ideal world, sexy and non-sexy costumes would both be options, but we don’t live in an ideal world.

Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
23 days ago

@Victorious Parasol

Was it Take Back Halloween?

NautaliaC
NautaliaC
23 days ago

@Naglfar

Alrighty, I see what you mean. Yeah, I don’t know why it’s fascinating to me because I am absolutely the type that stays at home in the dark eating pizza on Halloween. I have that opinion even if I’ve never explored the world of Halloween as an adult.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
23 days ago

@Pagan Reader

That’s it! Thank you. 🙂

Naglfar
Naglfar
23 days ago

@NautaliaC
I’m in the same boat re: Halloween as an adult. I haven’t dressed up or gone trick-or-treating since I was 9, and we don’t get many trick or treaters where I live (this year I turned my lights out, didn’t want to risk covid handing out candy). If this pandemic ever ends maybe I’ll reconsider. Or if I get further in my transition maybe I’ll try a sexy costume of some sort.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Mean
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Intergalactic Mean
23 days ago

@Alan Robertshaw,

What is/are the meanings behind the Red Crystal and Red Lion & Sun? I know the other three have religious connotations that can give subconscious comfort to those that follow them; is the Red Crystal supposed to be a ‘neutral’ variation to show comfort to those who don’t follow any of the Abrahamic religions? Was the Red Lion supposed to be for the Asian parts of the world? (And go figure that design is the most interesting one of the bunch, even though the others are also clear that they’re related to each other.)

Alan Robertshaw
23 days ago

@ redsilkphoenix

The red crescent was, as you correctly surmise, introduced to overcome some issues around religious connotations and other controversies.

After discussion, the high contracting parties agreed that the Red Cross and Red Crescent would remain as protected symbols in their own right.

They also though added the red crystal as a neutral secular symbol.

As well as the lack of religious overtones, it has no national connotations. The Red Cross is actually based on the Swiss flag; and the Crescent is also associated with a particular region. So they wanted to emphasise the neutral multi-national application of the symbols.

The Red Magden David was dropped, as was the Red Lion. Which is a pity because it’s my favourite. It was originally the Iranian one but, after the overthrow of the Shah, Iran began to use the Red Crescent. Any suggestion to keep it on the books just in case was probably met with a bit of a side-eye by the new Iranian government.

The Red Magden David can still be used if it is incorporated into the crystal

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As can the cross and crescent; sometimes together.

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Last edited 23 days ago by Alan Robertshaw
Naglfar
Naglfar
23 days ago

@Alan Robertshaw
I agree, the lion is much more interesting. Maybe a bit less recognizable at a distance, however, which is potentially an issue.

occasional reader
occasional reader
23 days ago

> Naglfar

@Alan Robertshaw

I agree, the lion is much more interesting. Maybe a bit less recognizable at a distance, however, which is potentially an issue.

Hmm, the lion seems to hold some kind of saber or cimetar. For a symbol of health or care, i am not sure a weapon carries a positive meaning…

Naglfar
Naglfar
23 days ago

@occasional reader
Well, it can’t be much worse than the caduceus/rod of Asclepius symbols used to represent medicine with snakes, which typically carry negative connotations in Abrahamic religions.

Hambeast
Hambeast
22 days ago

Heh. Here in California, green crosses signify cannabis dispensaries. Tons of neon ones can be found along the 215 freeway in Riverside county.

Franziska Nagel
Franziska Nagel
21 days ago

@naglfar

I always misread the save icon as a document box.