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MRA TERFs transmisogyny transphobia

Men’s Rights activist tries to convince fellow MRAs that trans people “are our most valuable allies.” It doesn’t go well.

La la la, I can’t hear you

Transphobe activists like to flip words around to serve their peculiar political purposes. Unwilling to call trans women trans women, they invert the gender and label them “Trans-Identified males,” which (according to the twisted transphobe logic) makes everyone who supports trans women into “Men’s Rights Activists.”

There are a lot of things wrong with this particular accusation against trans rights supporters, one of the most obvious flaws being that most real Men’s Rights activists are not exactly supportive of trans rights.

Consider, for example, what just happened on the Men’s Rights subreddit yesterday when one of the rare trans-friendly MRAs tried to convince his fellow MRAs that trans people “are our most valuable allies.”

BrickDaddyShark wrote:

I believe that trans people are our most valuable allies for a few reasons; they are mainstream, they have experience from both sides, and there is even a facet of feminism dedicated to hating them. In general, they have been the most influential group in the progress that has been made for mens rights.

I have no idea what he’s talking about here, but let’s let him continue:

I think that every one of us should include some trans rights into our book of mens rights issues. A few easy ones are that because of the discrimination against men in mental and physical health, MtF people have a harder time getting support from family members and approval from doctors than FtM. FtM on the other hand are focused on far less after transitioning because of their status as men. In conclusion, take care of our trans allies.

Trans Rights are Mens Rights are Human Rights.

BrickDaddyShark’s proposal went over like the proverbial lead balloon, getting voted down to zero and inspiring a host of hostile comments.

“Brother, lay off the crack,” wrote someone called playingpoodles.

“Trans” already have all the rights everybody else has, and if they’re game to cut off their male genitalia and present as a woman they can access a bunch of extra rights reserved for women only.

Your suggestions emerge from a place called ‘fantasyland far from reality’. The only thing interesting about the trans movement, and the feminist response to it, is how little the feminists cared about men having their genitals surgically removed – but now very recently once disturbed women have jumped on the trans bandwagon, and want to juice up on steroids and present as men, feminists are cautious about it and worried for THESE GIRLS. They care, now, because they genuinely care about women, and don’t want them to wreck their bodies juicing up supra-physiological levels of male hormones – just tells me men don’t matter to them, but women do, which we all already knew.

I’m pretty sure Mr. Poodles’ argument here also comes from a place called fantasyland.

“In what way are they allies?” demands tenchineuro.

While it’s true that the trans lobby is more powerful than feminism today, the trans movement’s major issues seem to be things like pronoun issues, with claims that using the wrong pronouns is literally killing trans people. And they also want tampon dispensers in men’s bathrooms.

But AFAIK they have taken no notice of men’s rights issues. Perhaps it’s another minority issue, my understanding is that most trans folk are M2F and that there are few F2M.

Dude, your “understanding” isn’t worthy of that word.

“First off, there are less than what, one percent of them?” complained Azael.

Second off, your average person doesn’t give a shit about them because they’re obnoxious children who spend their time endlessly screaming about how they need to be treated more special than everyone else. What societal influence they have comes from the support of the woke crowd who are using them as their current group of victimized dancing monkeys to parade around and feel sorry for. Let the feminists who aren’t TERFS have them.

I’ll agree with that last sentence, if nothing else. MRAs are terrible people and thus terrible allies. But BrickDaddyShark, unlike his MRA pals, does seen to have good intentions, at least, despite his obvious ignorance; if he wants to be a genuine ally to trans people, he should stop hanging out on the Men’s Rights subreddit and take some time to actually learn a bit about the people he wants to ally with. If he were able to to this, I suspect he’d get a much warmer reception from trans folks than he’s getting from his ostensible Men’s Rights allies.

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weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
1 month ago

Hope you’re doing all right, David.

On to the post.

Who are these feminists who are cool with trans women but think trans men are confused girls who need saving? Because, as far as I can tell, people are either allies to trans people of any gender, or they’re against trans rights. It can’t be too common what that MRA was describing.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

You know that feeling when someone has gotten everything so wrong you’re not even sure where to start responding? And you also feel like you just accidentally took a swig of raw sewage?

makes everyone who supports trans women into “Men’s Rights Activists.

They also like to call us “TRAs” to further try to compare us to MRAs.

In general, they have been the most influential group in the progress that has been made for mens rights.

Well, yes, trans men are men, but I imagine this is not what this fellow meant.

I think what he probably meant is that he thinks trans women are men and thinks what we do is therefore some sort of men’s rights victory.
To be clear to any MRAs reading this:
FUCK OFF. We are NOT men. We do not support your pathetic little hate movement. Our victories are not yours.

MtF people have a harder time getting support from family members and approval from doctors than FtM. FtM on the other hand are focused on far less after transitioning because of their status as men. In conclusion, take care of our trans allies.

  1. I don’t know how hard it is to get approval from doctors for trans mascs vs trans femmes but IIRC suicide rates are higher for trans mascs.
  2. If the statement above is true, it’s because of misogynists like MRAs, not because trans women are men.

They care, now, because they genuinely care about women, and don’t want them to wreck their bodies juicing up supra-physiological levels of male hormones – just tells me men don’t matter to them, but women do, which we all already knew.

We have found the intersection of MRAs and TERFs, and it is disgusting.

most trans folk are M2F and that there are few F2M.

I don’t think this is true. I don’t have data, but I thought I heard somewhere that there are roughly equal numbers of each now. Most of the trans people I’ve known were trans mascs, but that’s not a huge sample size.

While it’s true that the trans lobby is more powerful than feminism today

Well, for the most part the two aren’t in competition. Most trans people are feminists. TERFs are a tiny minority of feminists (if they can even be called that).

But BrickDaddyShark, unlike his MRA pals, does seen to have good intentions, at least, despite his obvious ignorance

I don’t think he does. It seems more like he’s very self-centered and trying to make trans people’s struggles all about him. That’s not what we want in an ally. He also might be a chaser.

If he were able to to this, I suspect he’d get a much warmer reception from trans folks

Maybe someone else can give him a good reception, I feel like he’d probably waltz in, start misgendering all of us, and then mansplain everything.

I pray that no TERF reads this. If they do we’ll never hear the end of how this “proves” their bullshit claims.

@WWTH

Who are these feminists who are cool with trans women but think trans men are confused girls who need saving? Because, as far as I can tell, people are either allies to trans people of any gender, or they’re against trans rights. It can’t be too common what that MRA was describing.

I have yet to see that anywhere. Mostly I see the opposite, transphobes who are OK with trans men but hate trans women.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
Crip Dyke
1 month ago

BrickDaddyShark:

In general, they have been the most influential group in the progress that has been made for mens rights.

David:

I have no idea what he’s talking about here

Obviously I don’t know this specific person and thus can’t guarantee that I know what they’re talking about, but it’s definitely true that you don’t get a successful trans* rights movement without some corollary benefits for cis folks. As far as MRAs go, they would never acknowledge it, but the one person who did more to fight prison rape in the USA than any other was … Dee Farmer.

Black trans women protecting the rights of everyone in the USA… again.

Last edited 1 month ago by Crip Dyke
Luzbelitx
1 month ago

Who are these feminists who are cool with trans women but think trans men are confused girls who need saving?

I’ve seen TERFs try to argue this, in order to “prove” they are “allies to trans people”.

Facepalming, I know.

Edit: I got it backwards and there’s no way to erase this comment. Facepalm to me!

Last edited 1 month ago by Luzbelitx
Lumipuna
Lumipuna
1 month ago

WWTH:

Who are these feminists who are cool with trans women but think trans men are confused girls who need saving?

I think the point was that TERFs feign concern over the welfare of trans men, but when it comes to trans women, the concern is suddenly 99% on how the existence of trans women affects “real” women. I’ve certainly gotten this same impression from TERF rhetoric.

I guess this can be seen as sexist toward “men” ie. AMAB people, while being consistently anti-trans. Another matter is whether the alleged concern over the welfare of trans men and cis women is even genuine.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

These guys really don’t know anything about anything.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
1 month ago

Edit: I got it backwards and there’s no way to erase this comment. Facepalm to me!

@Luzbelitx: You can email Dave and request its removal.

ED James
ED James
1 month ago

They’re obnoxious children who spend their time endlessly screaming about how they need to be treated more special than everyone else.

I would post a picture of a projector with Azael written on it but I can’t and I don’t want to open GIMP

Makroth
Makroth
1 month ago

The hell is “supra-physiological”? Have they transcencended their physical bodies and now exist as beings of pure consciousness?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Lumipuna

Another matter is whether the alleged concern over the welfare of trans men and cis women is even genuine.

I don’t think it is. Transphobes pretty obviously don’t actually care about any of that and are just interested in selling bigotry. If they cared about cis women they’d stop attacking and harassing cis women who disagree with them, and if they cared about trans men they’d maybe give them half a cent of respect.

@Makroth

The hell is “supra-physiological”?

Relating to the physiology of the Toyota Supra?
comment image

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

Mostly I see the opposite, transphobes who are OK with trans men but hate trans women

The hate seems about equally directed, from what I’ve heard from my friends and read.

You drive a blue Ford, so you notice blue Fords. My mate Rick drives a green Toyota, so he sees green Toyotas all the time. Frequency bias gets us all. 😀

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

While there’s probably small difference in practice, I never have seen trans men better treated than trans women. At least by general public.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Threp, Ohlmann
True, I’m sure there is some perception bias on my part. I’m not meaning to imply that trans men have it easier, just noting what I’ve observed personally.

At the very least, the attitudes with which transphobes view us tend to be different. They paint trans women as predators and deceivers, while trans men are depicted as misguided butch lesbians.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
ChaosEngineer
ChaosEngineer
1 month ago

If you share the MRA belief that there’s a literal “War Between the Sexes”, then trans people are incredibly valuable. They can be sent as spies into the enemy camp, or be turned and used as double agents.

I’m honestly suprised that he got so much pushback. It’s almost like MRAs don’t understand the value of (military) intelligence!

Last edited 1 month ago by ChaosEngineer
Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@ChaosEngineer

They can be sent as spies into the enemy camp, or be turned and used as double agents.

Unfortunately, a lot of transphobes seem to think that this is something we’re doing. I’ve heard various TERFs claiming that trans women are double agents from the patriarchy and/or trying to mess up women’s crime statistics.

Temascos
Temascos
1 month ago

Of course MRAs don’t get or care about trans people, they don’t even care about men! Their only goal is to hate women, that’s it.

“While it’s true that the trans lobby is more powerful than feminism today, the trans movement’s major issues seem to be things like pronoun issues, with claims that using the wrong pronouns is literally killing trans people”

This guy is a fool, it’s fair to say that is not true AT ALL. Even at the most basic of glances the major issues are to do with healthcare, mental wellbeing, fair treatment in society and not being targeted and harassed by cruel people. All so they can live their best and happiest life possible.

But yes, it’s the PRONOUNS /s

Off topic, hope you’re doing okay David.

Hambeast
Hambeast
1 month ago

Once again, these guys are loudly proclaiming their fear and anger. Why get so up in arms about a tampon dispenser in a men’s room? If you don’t need it, ignore it! I’ve seen (albeit rarely) women’s restrooms with condom dispensers and never gave it a thought.

crip dyke – My personal cis-folk corollary benefit would be not being fearful for trans folk when they’re banned from using the correct restroom. I cannot even wrap my head around what it must be like to have to give that kind of thought to having a wee.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 month ago

“Trans” already have all the rights everybody else has, and if they’re game to cut off their male genitalia and present as a woman they can access a bunch of extra rights reserved for women only.

It’s always the mark of a person well versed in all things trans* to think that transitioning gives you a bunch of extra rights. I’d also be interested in hearing about “all these rights” everybody seems to have, seeing as these are the same people who think straight cis men are the most oppressed group.

Also, poodles don’t deserve this.

nobody
nobody
1 month ago

If he were able to to this, I suspect he’d get a much warmer reception from trans folks than he’s getting from his ostensible Men’s Rights allies.

The bigger problem is how he started identifying with MRAs.

Given this is not a hate filled bigoted person, I suspect a combination of feeling socially awkward and stumbling across some MRA stopped clock moment that, at the time, sounded deep and meaningful. Then comes the virtual lovebombing.

IOW, he’s naive as fuck.

All high control groups(Co$, NXIVM) have material, usually plagiarized, that is legit good advice. Then it’s mixed with thier indoctrination garbage. I’d call the online versions (PUA,MRA,Qanon, Gamergate) Medium Control Groups: they control through the threat of rejection and retaliation/doxxing, as opposed to micromanaging member’s lives.

This person needs to ask themselves what they’re doing there and if they really share MRA values. They also need to look at what happens to exmembers and “enemies” of the group. Normal healthy groups can both let people move on AND don’t need to hound, harrass, or stalk their “enemies”. Because healthy groups are too busy doing something worthwhile.

I hope he can see the light in time.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

O/T, but this happened. TL;DR is someone cracked Trump’s Twitter password, which was “maga2020!” and gained access to his account. Unfortunately, they did not use the opportunity to tweet as him and instead told his campaign team to use a more secure password.

This is shortly after he declared that “Nobody gets hacked. To get hacked you need somebody with 197 IQ and he needs about 15 percent of your password.”

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
Bakunin
Bakunin
1 month ago

Getting honestly tired of the “special rights” nonsense

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
1 month ago

The hacker should have used the opportunity to post KP as Trump.

  1. If anything will get him shitcanned from Twitter, it’s that.
  2. If anything will turn his base, especially the Evangelical contingent, away from him, it’s that.

Talk about missed opportunities … even if only to learn that he truly, absolutely is Teflon.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

@Surplus : no KP on one of the most followed twitter account, please. We already know it would have no effect ; it’s not like evangelicals could even slightly care about what perversion he do, and they proved it several time already.

Fabe
Fabe
1 month ago

@Surplus and Ohlmann
And then there is the simple fact that IT WOULD NEVER WORK!!!!!!!!!!! Hell it would do more harm to the people who oppose Trump then to him.

Tovius
Tovius
1 month ago

KP? Do I want to know?

Fabe
Fabe
1 month ago

No

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

My local MP voted against feeing hungry kids. I posted something on her Facebook. It was just an independent report showing free school meals actually saves money. Better nutrition means less drain on the NHS; and kids concentrate better in school so they don’t need extra remedial education; and also parents can work longer. It got a bit of support.

But they deleted it.

I don’t usually get angry; but I find it hard to avoid at the moment. I feel the need for a more robust follow-up.

I know there’s an understandable distaste of online abuse here; and I get that. But I think so long as it’s something I’d also post if my MP was a guy then I think that has to be ok?

Fabe
Fabe
1 month ago

@Alan
Well there is a deference between “Politician is a bad Politician because they made a bad political decision ” and “Politician is a bad Politician because they are a woman”

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

@Alan

But I think so long as it’s something I’d also post if my MP was a guy then I think that has to be ok?

Yep. Not that you’d be posting nasty shit anyroad, so it’s fine.

Stick to posting at pols on twitter when you’re pissed at them though, and make sure you @ at least the party HQ involved (and a couple journos, if you’ve got the swing) – they can’t delete that. The open letter works better if it’s not able to be destroyed and denied by the intended. 😛

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Surplus
If anything it would empower his base because once it turned out it had been hacked they’d claim it was hacked by the cabal of satanist pedophiles and confirm their theories.

What I would have done if I had access to the account is deactivated it. It can and would be reactivated later, but it would at least be a setback and make a statement.

@Alan Robertshaw
You’re fine. Your MP sounds shitty though.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

@Alan Robertshaw : after Theresa May and Tatcher, I feel that the UK is the country where women are most equal to men in that they can be falling forward to responsability like men.

So, yes, you can criticize or badger your MP for its politically stupid decision.

Kevin
Kevin
1 month ago

@ Alan

Do you have a link for that free school meals/NHS outcomes report? It sounds like something that could do with whatever publicity can be put its way.

North Sea Sparkly Dragon
North Sea Sparkly Dragon
1 month ago

I am completely ignoring the sewage stream from the MRAs today.

Thanks for sharing that report Alan, I might email it to my MP. She didn’t vote and doesn’t have Twitter so I couldn’t call her a gutless worm (terrible insult to worms, I know), but an email with a report showing the benefits of school meals plus the stats on the local area regarding child poverty might help me feel better. There are places in Grimsby with 47% of the children in poverty and she didn’t have the guts to vote against her party to try to feed them during the winter. I’m livid. I was equally livid that the MP for the neighbouring towns (one MP, two towns) voted against it. He’s an oily tick though (again, apologies to ticks, oily or otherwise – no one deserves to be compared to a Tory) so I expected it. I might send him a copy to. As a former constituent with family still in the area.

Kevin
Kevin
1 month ago

@ Alan

Thank you for the link. I’ll see what I can do. Free school meals are a bit of a – difficult – subject in my family as my late mother was of a generation where she had to serve the other kids at lunchtime before getting the free school meal she was entitled to because of her widowed mother’s reduced circumstances. Our LEA had a ‘Mr Bumble’ view about ‘discouraging freeloading.’