Red Pillers see themselves as serious, scientific students of the human condition, helping one another make sense of the sometimes hard truths of human nature. In the Ask The Red Pill subreddit, they deal forthrightly with important questions about life and how to live it. Like: What do I do if my girlfriend insists on walking in front of me? Is playing piano a beta cuck activity? And perhaps the most perplexing question of all: Are lesbians real?
I am happy to announce that Red Pill scientists have reached a consensus on this critical issue: No, lesbians do not exist, outside of a tiny handful of really screwed-up ladies. And also, they’re ugly.
Let’s look at the scientific evidence. According to one Red Pill commenter called Joey_Lopez,
Most of the lesbians I’ve known are not really lesbians. They play lesbian because they think it’ll make them hotter. Without that gimmick more of them would just be below average.
The real lesbians are a product of toxic feminism. They been trained to see men with such disdain that to them the only logical thing to do is get with a female.
Zxcvb7809 is equally blunt:
Every woman I know who claims she is a lesbian sleeps with or has slept with men. They are closer to the socially inept side of the scale I will add which might explain why they would just go for women as opposed to men. I kind of see it as a cop out.
-saltymangos- offers this explanation:
They aren’t real.
In their minds, unattainable/taken men are more attractive. They want what they can’t have. So, they apply this to their own lives and try to become “unattainable” in hopes of being more attractive in the man’s eye. This is only true for women, not men. Men don’t see you as more attractive if you’re taken, but some women cannot think/see past that and get with another woman in hopes of becoming “unattainable” and therefore more attractive.
Very wise, Mr. Mangos, very wise.
TheTrenTr*nnyTrain has a simpler explanation:
There are no lesbians, only ugly women who can’t attract men.
Now, there are a few dissenters. According to BoundaryChimps,
Homosexual behavior can be seen sometimes in non-human animals, so it can’t possibly be only an artifact of girls trying to play games or even of general human psychology.
The only thing left is that it’s real, and that it exists at a level below whatever makes us humans special. Maybe it’s wires accidentally getting crossed before birth or whatever (I mean, it’s not like they contribute to the gene pool), but whatever the cause it is most definitely a thing.
There’s even one dissenter who claims that there are not only lesbians but that some of them are actually pretty.
“It’s not just ugly chicks.,”_Anarchon_ claims,
There are some good looking chicks with deep-seated issues that causes it…typically borderline personality disorder type stuff (abandonment, early abuse, etc). It’s basically incels and femcels that go gay.
I’m not sure I can accept that. The contributions of -saltymangos- and his esteemed colleagues are quite compelling.
And now onto other important questions: Are women mammals? Can they stand upright on their hind legs? Are they capable of tool use?
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@an autistic giraffe
At this rate we will surpass WWII by Inauguration Day. Trump will have killed more Americans than the axis powers.
@Battering Lamb
I think part of why I got into metal originally was because it was a subculture about not fitting in, which I could relate to because I’d never fit in. It was also a subculture where being a male-presenting person with long hair was pretty common and didn’t face extra scrutiny.
@Naglfar: At first for me it was that it was the only music that was loud and angry enough to resonate with me at that time. And while I still prefer loud and angry, I tend to prefer a lot more technical and vocal skill these days.
@VP: He is a precious cinnamon role and I appreciate his effort to always at least try to respect something even if he doesn’t understand it. Was it also you who recommended Elisa Hansen’s The Company of Death a while back? Because I enjoyed that one a lot too.
@Battering Lamb
I don’t remember if it was me, but I do know the Maven’s channel, and I may’ve mentioned her book as an example of stories with an ace character. I certainly would encourage people to buy it!
Naglfar and mouse sparrow – I’m a cis/straight woman and knew at a young age (11 and pre-menarche) that I never wanted to have kids. I would gladly have donated my bits but, sadly, did not know about trans folk until the mid/late 90s and doctors* wouldn’t do it anyway. Now it’s too late since the expiration date of the bits has passed (post menopause now.)
I used to have a rather outsized sex drive but I believe I have always been pretty much aromantic. Pretending at romance was a means to an end for me; I just wanted the sex. It would have been nice to be able to have a friendship based on that, but social norms never did cooperate.
Now, I’m ace, too. I don’t have the problems Val mentioned. I’m pretty sure it’s because vanishingly few people want to imagine post-menopausal women as sexual beings.
*I inquired about permanent sterilization once and all I got was a lecture. I’m sure you can imagine what it entailed.
Anyone know if David’s OK? Still not back on twitter, or I’d check
@Threp
David last tweeted about 4 hours ago, so I’m pretty sure he’s alive. Probably just busy or taking some time for other stuff.
For what it’s worth, when I inquired a couple of years ago I got a similar response (as a dude-looking person). Something about how I couldn’t possibly know for sure that I wouldn’t change my mind etc.
So much of this stuff is absolutely unhinged. Just the product of not leaving your house enough and learning about other people from internet echo chambers.
That being said, I have to know gay dudes exist to these people. Are they also mentally ill or the ultimate MGTOWs?
The thing being, since sterilization cannot be reversed, I believe it’s better to be prudent
The upside of doctors being really unwilling to sterilize someone even if s/he want to is that they won’t get permanent consequence if the request was made under the influence of a sect (or depression, or whatever) that they shook off after.
The downside is that they are almost as unwilling when there *is* strong medial value in being sterilized. Particulary for women whose menstruations tend to not go well.
Lastly, I would hope that it also mean doctors would be very unwilling to sterilize someone against his or her will (at the request of the governement for example), but past examples don’t make me super optimistic on that. Forced sterilization for trans is a thing :/
(I don’t ever want children either)
@Perry
The MGTOW stance on gay men is either that they’re men who have given up or they don’t exist.
@Ohlmann
The thing is, it seems to be very rare for someone to seek sterilization, then regret it. And, the language used in denying the sterilization is often very cisheteronormative. I knew a lesbian who had uterine problems and wanted to get a hysterectomy, but the doctor refused on the grounds that she could somehow become straight and want to have children with a man.
As for forced sterilization, unfortunately that is going on the US right now to migrant women. It appears the gatekeeping hasn’t helped people who don’t want to be sterilized.
Don’t be ridiculous. Of course they’re not real. All they need is you, Red Piller, and they’ll understand that. Every lesbian is just a straight woman who hasn’t met you — yet.
@Ohlman: It makes sense that a doctor would want to know more about the circumstances of why someone would seek sterilization. It’s just that most aren’t even willing to discuss it. I started out asking about more permanent forms of contraception for men. The doctor flatout said that the only option was sterilization and that would be unlikely. I had been following research on the subject of contraception for a while since my partner wasn’t on the pill and neither of us want children.
I know that in the netherlands trans people were forced to be sterilized as part of their transition until as late as 2014. Some trans people I follow on youtube have also mention being required to be sterilized (one from Austria, one from Sweden). As Naglfar stated, weird how it is not an option except when the government wants it (ok, not even then because there’s nothing optional about it).
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-trump-is-willing-to-dismantle-democracy-to-hold-on-to-power/
Especially interesting is this passage:
One wonders if we’re beginning here to see the outlines of the major factions of World War III.
If lesbians were real, we would have seen one on TV by now.
(There are lesbians in movies but they are done with CGI)
Re: wanting sterilization, I’ve known an… unfortunate number of people (mostly cis women) for whom pregnancy was medically inadvisable due to serious chronic illnesses that could cause deadly complications if they were to become pregnant… and also some people who would become suicidal if they became pregnant, they were so averse. And yet when they asked about sterilization, just so they wouldn’t have to worry about possibly killing themselves with/due to an accidental pregnancy, they STILL got the boilerplate “No, we won’t do that, because what if you change your mind?” About what, asshole, about being DEAD?
I remember my mom went through the same damn thing…. told she was so scarred up inside from endometriosis and an ectopic pregnancy that a pregnancy was highly unlikely AND inadvisable, yet two doctors turned her down for a hysterectomy “in case” she changed her mind. It had been well thought out, believe me… I wasn’t an only child for lack of desire, but she felt it best for her health and wellbeing that that door get closed for good. By the time she finally had her hysterectomy, she had one of the worst endo cases the doc had ever seen in nearly 40 years of his career and the surgery took longer than they thought because there was so much. Uterine tissue adhesions were everywhere, even wrapped around her intestines (interestingly, her “irritable bowel” VANISHED after the surgery.)
I know there’s always “what if you change your mind” because there’s always that handful of idiots who aren’t sure or will claim they were misled about what STERILIZATION is, but at the same time it really infantilizes people to be questioning their judgment at every turn. Patients should know what’s best for their own bodies. Being that this is mostly cis women, as if they don’t have to go through enough infantilization and “you don’t really understand what you’re doing” attitude already. It’s so fucking insulting.
I feel fortunate that my gyno was willing to remove my uterus so quickly when I only had moderate endometriosis… painful, but not debilitating. But then, I am over 40 – and that doc is pretty cool, she’s the one providing my testosterone. It was really just a happy coincidence that I would have wanted that uterus gone anyway.
I think the ethic for sterilization should be similar to the ethic for amputation. Including the part where doctors do not hesitate doing it when needed.
(and, yes, uterine problems are easily a need for hyterectomie)
@Amtep
Is Ellen DeGeneres made with CGI too?
@Seth S. : people routinely make horribly wrong decisions about their bodies that they regret almost immediately. The system need to have an adult in the room about non-reversible decision, because the legitimate owner of the body quite often won’t be the adult.The idea that people know what is best for their body is pretty much disproved daily ; there could be an argument that specifically for sterilization people actually are serious, but I am skeptical.
The fact we only care about women* losing their ability to reproduce is however an head banger, as is the absurd amount of resistance of a lot of doctors. Similar to how women are handled many less painkillers than men on the basis that clearly they exagerate their pains, or how french doctors used women in anesthesia for medicine exercises without asking the woman first, or even after.
* okay, it also happen to men, but the incidence of debilitating or mortal diseases in penis is much lower than for women.
* and okay again, I could add to that heap delaying transition for trans, even while the morbidity of delaying transition is both well documented and horrifically high, while the morbidity of trying a transition while you aren’t trans seem to be very low or even 0, with the main obstacle to prove that definitely being “actually, it’s very hard to find people that started transition and changed their mind”.
Why sterilization is a problem:
1. Not actually one procedure, but could include several, with different degrees of outcome.
2. Hormones are not just for “having babies”. They are part of overall wellness. Some of the most persistent health ignorance is that estrogen and testosterone are “sex hormones”. It is more accurate to say they serve different functions. Most testosterone produced by men is used for reproductive health. Both women and men use testosterone to build muscle, and that is mostly precursors produced by the adrenals. For instance.
Keeping hormone balance is the main reason I never took the Pill.
3. Some surgeries… hysterectomy…can involve cutting tendons that are crucial for core strength. Unless you are below 30 or an amateur athlete who knows exactly how to rebuild your strength, you may never get it back.
I AM an amateur athlete. I would NEVER have elective surgery involving cutting muscle.
So, one has to educate themselves on exactly what is involved by “sterilization” and what you personally want. The ignorance is really alarming. I knew one guy who thought a vasectomy was the same as neutering a cat. No, duffus, that is
castration. Same result … infertility…but completely different surgeries.
@ Amtep
I’ve always preferred the ones done with practical FX, and thank heavens movies are beginning to do that again with just a little CGI cleanup in post-production.
@Nobody: Thanks for the info. It would have been nice if the doctor told me that, instead of ‘you’ll probably want children later’.
I’ve been reading about an article where a French woman wrote a book about how women don’t have to like men. The book was censored by the French government, citing misandry I believe.
This got me thinking, what are straight women to do if they don’t wish to be straight though, because misogyny is a real threat still?
@Ohlmann
I’m the adult in every room I walk into because I am an adult. I suspect that the same is true of Seth’s acquaintances who risked death or serious complications from pregnancy.
Perhaps my deep discomfort with this idea that only medical professionals are adult enough to make decisions about another human being’s fertility is in part a result of living in a country with a history of institutionalized eugenics.
@Viscaria : you know, saying that you specifically is responsible enough is similar to wanting to drive without safety belt because you drive safely enough. That might be true, but it’s also totally irrelevant. I get from where the sentiment come, it still fall flat on the fact that it’s too important and irreversible to be the decision of one single person.
Doctors have serious, ongoing ethical issues, and I can understand not wanting them to have the final say to do something, but it’s also pretty much necessary to have them involved. There’s no good arguments to allow sterilization against medical opinion, regardless of you feeling being an adult, or feeling being informed enough, or being sure you will never regret it.
On other news, I actually screamed loud on reading about that article :
https://www.mediamatters.org/education/new-department-education-co-chair-said-conversion-therapy-psychologically-beneficial
And that people is still allowed to have some modicum of power. Sure, it’s par for the course with Trump, but I rarely have seen someone so obviously evil and inducing so much pain.
I think I was unclear. I shouldn’t have used the first person. My issue was narrowly with you referring to adults as not adults–any adults, not just me–and particular adults that you deem more worthy as actual adults. I also more widely disagree with your assessment that “it’s too important and irreversible to be the decision of one single person” when the one single person is the only one affected, but I was specifically taking issue with your infantalization of certain adults.
I dislike that regardless of context because I find it personally offensive to be called a child when I am not one, which is why I used the first person, but it’s also specifically relevant in this context. The supposed differences in maturity/decision-making capabilities of men v women, white people v people of colour, wealthy people v the poor, non-disabled people v disabled people were part of what has empowered eugenicists to make decisions about fertility on behalf of others.