Red Pillers see themselves as serious, scientific students of the human condition, helping one another make sense of the sometimes hard truths of human nature. In the Ask The Red Pill subreddit, they deal forthrightly with important questions about life and how to live it. Like: What do I do if my girlfriend insists on walking in front of me? Is playing piano a beta cuck activity? And perhaps the most perplexing question of all: Are lesbians real?
I am happy to announce that Red Pill scientists have reached a consensus on this critical issue: No, lesbians do not exist, outside of a tiny handful of really screwed-up ladies. And also, they’re ugly.
Let’s look at the scientific evidence. According to one Red Pill commenter called Joey_Lopez,
Most of the lesbians I’ve known are not really lesbians. They play lesbian because they think it’ll make them hotter. Without that gimmick more of them would just be below average.
The real lesbians are a product of toxic feminism. They been trained to see men with such disdain that to them the only logical thing to do is get with a female.
Zxcvb7809 is equally blunt:
Every woman I know who claims she is a lesbian sleeps with or has slept with men. They are closer to the socially inept side of the scale I will add which might explain why they would just go for women as opposed to men. I kind of see it as a cop out.
-saltymangos- offers this explanation:
They aren’t real.
In their minds, unattainable/taken men are more attractive. They want what they can’t have. So, they apply this to their own lives and try to become “unattainable” in hopes of being more attractive in the man’s eye. This is only true for women, not men. Men don’t see you as more attractive if you’re taken, but some women cannot think/see past that and get with another woman in hopes of becoming “unattainable” and therefore more attractive.
Very wise, Mr. Mangos, very wise.
TheTrenTr*nnyTrain has a simpler explanation:
There are no lesbians, only ugly women who can’t attract men.
Now, there are a few dissenters. According to BoundaryChimps,
Homosexual behavior can be seen sometimes in non-human animals, so it can’t possibly be only an artifact of girls trying to play games or even of general human psychology.
The only thing left is that it’s real, and that it exists at a level below whatever makes us humans special. Maybe it’s wires accidentally getting crossed before birth or whatever (I mean, it’s not like they contribute to the gene pool), but whatever the cause it is most definitely a thing.
There’s even one dissenter who claims that there are not only lesbians but that some of them are actually pretty.
“It’s not just ugly chicks.,”_Anarchon_ claims,
There are some good looking chicks with deep-seated issues that causes it…typically borderline personality disorder type stuff (abandonment, early abuse, etc). It’s basically incels and femcels that go gay.
I’m not sure I can accept that. The contributions of -saltymangos- and his esteemed colleagues are quite compelling.
And now onto other important questions: Are women mammals? Can they stand upright on their hind legs? Are they capable of tool use?
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@Seth S. I hope your family will accept you for who you are. Thanks for sharing, some of it really hit home for me. Especially:
I avoid looking at reflective surfaces for that same reason. Same applies to hearing my own voice. True, everyone has that to a point but supposedly it is something you get used to. I never did, and I really tried. I talk a lot for my job and people often tell me I have a relaxing voice (and a pretty deep one at that). I could possibly even agree, it’s just that the voice is mine that’s the problem.
@Battering Lamb
I tend to avoid that as well, even though I have managed to somewhat reduce my dysphoria about my appearance. What really hurts is looking at old pictures of myself that have short hair. My relatives (who don’t know I’m trans) always want to look at old pictures with me and I just can’t.
@Seth S. I wish you the best of luck. A lot of your understanding of your experience hit home for me. Though Battering Lamb quoted the selfie thing already that was the part that made my 20s a blur. I chose to be the eternal and invisible support for friends just so the spotlight wouldn’t be on me. I couldn’t handle photos of myself before my transition.
I don’t exactly know why, but all the below the waist stuff never bothered me, just my face (shape, facial hair, short hair) and chest did. My issue is equal parts physical and social. I cannot promise anything but if you have family that remain close to you or choose to push past their preconceived notions after you come out, I think that’s cause to cherish them. I was raised conservative Christian, though thankfully medically-minded. I was surprised at the efforts my parents have taken and delighted. They’re not perfect, no, but it’s much better than estrangement.
As for being an apparently non-existent lesbian it’s so weird that I keep bumping into other non-existent lesbians. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to disbelieve the existence of an entire group of people.
Best wishes to you, Seth, take care.
@Nautalia : I believe that’s because for convenience, everything that do not exist is in the same place. So here are transexuals, homosexuals, intelligent people of color, people that don’t get money from trickle down economics, climate change, and the like.
That place is commonly called “reality”.
@NautaliaC; my mother rejects me so I’ve gone back in the closet. I don’t know what my brother thinks of me and he never talks to me so I don’t know.
@Mouse Sparrow: Aw, that blows. At the moment I’m still closeted, I plan to start attempting to transition soon (I have a meeting for trans women this weekend (Online because covid, obviously) where I hope to ask about the specifics about how to start), and haven’t told anyone aside from a very close group (my partner and three very close friends) yet, because I’m terrified of simply not being believed or taken seriously. I hope you have a support network of people where you don’t have to hide, it helps a lot.
@Naglfar: I can imagine. It is quite difficult to find a picture of me as a child where I’m smiling. Or it would be, if those weren’t the ones my parents tend to hang among the family pictures.
*Non-existent psychic high-five of appropriate social distancing +2*
I mean, strictly speaking I like men too, it’s just that I realised that very late in life and the pool of specimens that fall within my tastes is significantly smaller.
I’ve seen repeated mentions here that trans people don’t always experience strong dysphoria about their body, or recognize it as abnormal if they do. Out of curiosity: how do such individuals discover that they are trans?
@Surplus: I don’t know. My dysforia is primarily aimed at my body, so I can’t answer that. I do find it an interesting question, though.
Please take the word allosexual seriously. It is very helpful to ace people like me the way that cis is helpful to trans people. And already ace people struggle with people not taking us seriously, saying we are not LGBTQIA+ or that we just didnt find the right person or that we are frigid or childish.
Fair enough. It is a useful term. I apologize for the joke.
@Valentin: I had confused the term with something like ‘sapiosexual’. But I agree, ace/aro issues can do with some more recognition and respect, and I should have googled before I shared a silly word association.
This is the first time I’ve heard of the term gender euphoria. I will look into that.
@ all, thank you! I means a lot <3
@Surplus, if you read my story, that’s one way someone who doesn’t HATE their body figures it out. There’s actually a large number of people in my local drag community who didn’t figure out they were trans or didn’t start putting the pieces together until they did drag. They, too, mostly felt pretty meh/bleh about their bodies and were just going through life, trying to make their lives and their bodies work. Then drag gave us the chance to have an experience like I did my first time in male drag, which is called gender EUPHORIA (to contrast with dysphoria), and I’d dare say it’s probably more common than that miserable “I saw myself in the mirror and now I want to die” kind of dysphoria you see on Tumblr. It’s a much more positive affirmation of your identity, at least.
For people who didn’t do drag or have a gender euphoric experience in some other way… it’s not necessarily hating your body, but wishing and imagining you had a different one, repeatedly, because you enjoy the idea of having that body more, or you wish you could take part in some experience that’s “only” for the other gender, and it’s something that comes up more than once.
The reddit community “egg_irl” talks/jokes a lot about this kind of experience through memes. To “crack one’s egg” is to admit (at least to yourself even if not to anyone else) that you’re trans. And, just saying, if anything there feels a little too painfully relatable to you, then I may have to recommend you some self-exploration, because…
@Seth S
That was pretty much my experience. I was sad when I didn’t develop breasts at puberty (I sort of did, but they’re small and not very noticeable since I haven’t started feminizing HRT) and I was really annoyed to get chest hair. I remember as a teen thinking that I wished I was a woman, but dismissing it because I thought I had to be a man. I thought all AMAB people didn’t like their bodies and that hating my body was just part of life. I vaguely knew what trans women were, but at the time I had only heard of straight trans women and I was bisexual with a preference for women, so I thought I couldn’t be a trans woman. It wasn’t until more recently that I figured out that my experiences weren’t unique and that there were trans women who weren’t straight (in fact, most aren’t).
It might be worth noting that when I first realized I didn’t have to be a man, I originally thought that I was non-binary but now recognize that I am a binary woman. I came out on WHTM in November of 2019 and came out to a few close friends IRL earlier in the pandemic. If the pandemic hadn’t happened I would probably be out to more people and hopefully could have started medically transitioning.
As for experiences, I really wish I could give birth. I can’t, and probably never will be able to, but I wish I could. Lactation is another thing I wish I could do, and that’s something that I hopefully can do one day as other trans women have been able to do it.
There’s a YA novel called Dreadnought that I first heard about last week, and it’s about a teenaged transgirl who suddenly gets her wish granted … but while the transition is physically perfect, there’s more to becoming a woman than, well, becoming a woman. Our heroine Danielle finds herself smack in the middle of female puberty, and it’s a major culture shock for someone who’s been going through male puberty (and hating it). She gets the fun of buying her first bras with her mom, but also the pain of seeing/experiencing sexism from a girl’s POV.
I’m not trans myself, but books like Dreadnought give me at least the general shape of what it’s like for transfolk, and I’m going to keep reading and listening to improve my understanding. Thank you to those here who have shared your own experiences. I promise to keep listening.
It is quite a relief to hear this is actually pretty common. When I first heard the term ‘autogynephillia’ tossed around, it really messed me up because it felt like my feelings betrayed my feminist beliefs (as a man invading the ultimate female space or something). I also generally felt really uncomfortable when people flirted with me because it didn’t feel like they flirted with ‘me’. I guess the fact that my partner is pansexual with a fluid sense of gender alleviated that discomfort a lot, as it assured me that it wasn’t my perceived masculinity that drew them.
@Seth: I guess that was what the feeling of intense relief was when I shaved my chest and legs last summer. I did it to deal with the heat. It didn’t help with the heat, but it just felt right. Not fixed, but better. It was the crux that pushed me to ‘I need to do something with this’. At least I know that my work will not have issues with it, as I have an out trans co-worker and everyone is very respectful and supportive. Even the ones who lean a bit more conservative (by dutch standards, but still) did their utmost to use proper pronouns and treat him like everyone else.
@Battering Lamb
I got a similar reaction to the term and it hit me in the unique way of denying my sexuality if I wanted to confirm my gender and vice-versa. It’s particularly tough since I’ve always had a high libido and the hormone therapy only proved to strengthen it, so I had to come to terms with this awful double-bind. The biggest thing that helped me through it is to remind myself that every woman’s experience is unique and if my own understanding of feminism clashes with another person’s then I can debate within the boundaries I set up. I’m not at all a representative of trans lesbian women; even among any intersection of what makes me. This leads me to seek out others’ experience. I guess what I’m saying is it’s not just cis people learning from trans people but also trans people learning from trans people.
And when it came to dating before my transition? Well, it was always doomed to fail because the deeper it got, the more risk I was taking that I’d be locked into a masculine role I subconsciously did not want. Though, I totally get that third person feeling of “who are you flirting with? Clearly it’s not me.”
@Battering Lamb
I felt this hard. I’ve been flirted with mostly by straight women (and a few gay men), and in both cases I always felt deceptive when responding because they were falling in love with a façade rather than what I was. I did performative masculinity because I felt I had to, and that was what many potential partners seemed to be interested in. One of the reasons I have avoided dating since cracking my egg, even before the pandemic, is because I know that the relationship will likely fall apart whenever I come out, and I know too many people who had that happen to them.
I’ve been shaving my chest and legs for years, it got me some weird looks but alleviated a lot of discomfort (especially shaving my chest).
@NautaliaC
I did a lot of reading up on other people’s experiences while cracking my egg. It was very reassuring to learn that 1) I didn’t have to live as a man anymore, 2) it was okay to be a sapphic trans woman, and 3) most importantly, other people had had the same experiences as me and I wasn’t just an aberration. I know that as with any facet of the human condition, we all experience womanhood differently, but it was reassuring to learn how much my life had had in common with the pre-transition experiences of other trans women.
@Naglfar, I really wish it was possible for AFAB people who don’t want kids to give their parts to AMAB people who do, and vice versa.
I honestly believed I’d be going through a male puberty and felt betrayed when I got my period. I don’t know why, but I thought I’d suddenly turn into a boy.
@mouse sparrow
So do I. I’d happily give some AFAB person my bits in exchange for a uterus. Uterine transplants have been performed in cis women who were born without uteruses, so it might be possible one day to transplant uteruses into trans women, but it probably would require a deceased donor.
Going the other direction, some medical institutions are now looking into penis transplants for trans men, so that might be possible soon.
Another real breakthrough would be transplanting gonads, as that would mean we could produce our own hormones. This appears to already have been done for AFAB people with ovarian issues, but I don’t think any trans person has received this.
OT But the USA’s death toll from the Coronavirus has officially surpassed the USA’s combat deaths from the civil war. Trump has killed more Americans then Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson. I’ll bet he’s proud of himself.
@Victorious Parasol: I just started reading that book yesterday! Did you happen to hear of it via the youtuber Dominic Noble?
@NautiliaC: One thing that pushed me over that hurdle was that apparently research showed that the feeling of ‘autogynephillia’ was something that also applied to about 95% of cis women. Almost as if ones body is part of ones sexuality and dysphoria can be a factor in that.
@Mouse Sparrow: I remember watching an episode of Misfits where there was a trans guy who could switch his genitals with someone elses. I mean, there were consent issues involved (the story was from the perspective of a cis man who’s dick was stolen) but I was pretty jealous of the ability itself (though hoping that it didn’t just apply to myself but I coud also help others with it).
@Naglfar: The chest definitely mattered more than the legs. As a fellow metalhead I too did a lot of performative masculinity (mostly in the hope that it would fit if I figured it out), especially as a teenager. Trying my hardest to grow a beard, trying to frame my discomfort about being flirted with as an ideological stance (I just have standards, man). It got pretty obnoxious. It is not the most feminine subculture out there./understatement. Aside from my current partner all of the successful flirting/dating involved me being under the influence of alcohol or drugs to deal with that discomfort. For the sake of clarity: This is not a good idea.
Sort of OT too : there were a big tournament of the cardgame MtG. One of the top 8 players is a trans, but instead of celebration their* twitter is now closed to public. For some reason, I suspect people have been way too toxic seeing a trans win at their games.
* I hope I remember the pronoun correctly.
@Battering Lamb
Yes, I am indeed one of his Beautiful Watchers!