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fatphobia MGTOW misogyny reddit

It’s “cruel” to tell fat women they’re beautiful, MGTOWs agree

For some strange reason, hateful people spend a great deal of their time explaining to people that they’re not hateful, really, just misunderstood. Literal Klan members will swear up and down that they’re not racist; misogynists insist they don’t really hate women. And those who hate fat people will try to pretend that they’re just worried about said fat people’s health.

In the MGTOW2 subreddit — a supposedly non-hateful spinoff of the original MGTOW subreddit — one of these fat haters has announced to the world that he doesn’t “hate obese women. Feminists do.”

“The so-called fat acceptance movement claims that anyone who doesn’t rave about the alleged beauty of obese women hates them,” he wrote.

That’s not true. I don’t hate obese women. I just don’t think I’m obligated to lie to them.

… by telling them they look nice.

Furthermore, I think feminists are being cruel to obese women by lying to them that they look wonderful when they don’t. I don’t go all out of my way to insult fat women. I just leave them alone. I just won’t lie to them and give them false hope. I find that wrong.

The problem, as he sees it, is that all obese women are by definition ugly, so treating them as anything but ugly monsters is mean.

If a woman is obese, it’s impossible for her to look attractive. That’s just the way it is. I don’t think it’s being kind to her to hide that truth with some bogus narrative that says all women are beautiful.

How noble this fellow is for never giving a fat woman a compliment.

That’s bogus BS. If you tell her she can be super attractive with enough inner beauty even if she weighs 400 pounds and has cellulite, you’re just setting her up for failure. That’s how you would treat someone you hate.

How hateful it is to be nice to fat people!

Naturally, this bold truth-teller was recieved warmly by his fellow MGTOWs.

“I don’t hate fat woman,” wrote one,

but I do hate that they’re forced on us on tv shows. Not that I watch network tv but the occasional ad I catch that has a young fatty as a protagonist makes me feel bad about society.

He doesn’t hate fat women; he just hates seeing evidence that they exist on television.

“This is women jeopardizing women; nothing new lol,” wrote another.

Like how post-wall feminists convinced young women to cut their hair short because “it’s not their obligation to look a certain way for men” while I was just a simple guy that wants a long haired beautiful girl for myself then suddenly I was branded sexist/mysogynist like wtf lol. Just one of the things I realized when I went MGTOW

Ah yes, the well-known plot of older women sneakily convincing their younger rivals to cut their hair short. Definitely happened.

Then there was this guy, who didn’t even pretend that he wasn’t hateful.

The evil part of me wants to support the “beauty at any size” movement because that means more fat people dying.

What a lovely group of non-hateful men.

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weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
1 month ago

I’ve never seen feminists demand men call fat women – or women of any size and shape – beautiful. The more feminist argument is actually that women shouldn’t be evaluated mostly by their looks. It’s corporations trying to bank off of inclusivity that see the expanded definition of beauty line. The only time you need to be judging a woman by appearance is if she’s a potential romantic or sexual partner. Then, go ahead and have your preferences.

even if she weighs 400 pounds and has cellulite

I guess this guy doesn’t know how cellulite works. It’s not uncommon for women who fairly slim to have some.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

I don’t find visible overweightness attractive, but I don’t see a reason to believe that it’s the case for everyone. And for some reason, I never ever had a situation where I had to lie to someone I find unattractive, because actually most people rightfully don’t care about my opinion on their attractiveness, and the select few that do are the one I have no reason to lie to.

The closest to that situation is if someone overweight asked me if he or she should lose weight. Which actually have a ton more to it than attractiveness. For example, problem to move around, or opportunity to change lifestyle would influence my answer much more than attractiveness.

I have never seen someone overweight in a serie. I am pretty sure the poster talk of women like Rebel Wilson, but that’s a pretty big stretch to say they are overweight. And she’s *certainly* not 400 pounds either. Did they ever seen such an individual ? Maybe it’s european bias, but that seem about as common as people who are 2m20+.

Also, cellulite is natural on women, something about being a way to store fats for pregnancy. You can have cellulite and be underweight, believe me.

(note : “visible” is because a lot of assholes suddenly find someone unattractive after discovering their weight, which is stupid and show how arbitrary thoses normes are. Also, some people are heavy because they are ripped, and apparently muscles is denser than fat tissue, so a climber or a gymnast can be much heavier than one would expect)

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

he doesn’t “hate obese women. Feminists do.”

Wait, I thought feminists were all fat and trying to make other women fat too. Have some consistency, for once!

That’s how you would treat someone you hate.

Weird. I’ve never told people I hate that they’re beautiful.

Ah yes, the well-known plot of older women sneakily convincing their younger rivals to cut their hair short.

You’re not getting my hair, old ladies! I’m on to you!

In all seriousness, do most men dislike short-haired women? MRAs are vocal about it, but I don’t know if most non-MRA men think this and just are quieter about it. I like short-haired women, but I’m not a man.

@WWTH
IIRC about 90% of women will develop cellulite at some point, so that sentence stuck out to me as well. Does he maybe not know what cellulite is and is just throwing it around as a word?

@Ohlmann

Did they ever seen such an individual ?

If they have, they probably wouldn’t know weight anyway as people are bad at eyeballing weight.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
Xyshurondor
Xyshurondor
1 month ago

I am about to be 39, and I am definitely a fat feminist, but I would never tell another woman of any age what to do with her hair. I wore mine long for social pressure reasons when I was young and started cutting it super short as I got older because I finally had the courage to wear it like I wanted it. I had a friend whose Mom forced her to cut it short as a kid, who now wears her hair long, as SHE always wanted. It’s just too personal to be telling another person how they should wear their hair. I feel the same way about wearing or not wearing makeup. I do, but not doing it because you reject gender conforming pressure or wearing it because it makes you feel beautiful are, to me, both valid, and so are lots of other reasons.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

Sorry to interrupt; but I’m sad to say Ruth Bader Ginsberg has passed away.

That’s obviously sad on a human level; but there’s also the risk of who will replace her. Hopefully there’ll be no time for a confirmation of a new justice prior to the election.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiPBKYUWsAEjnOz?format=jpg&name=large

Last edited 1 month ago by Alan Robertshaw
Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 month ago

Hunh. I knew someone who had been over 400lbs once. Granted, by the time I met him he was down closer to 320, meaning he’d lost all the fat but kept the muscle that he’d needed to carry all that around. He was also somewhere around 6’6″, and with most people he could pretty much grab them under one arm, heft them up over his shoulder, and walk off.

Generally a nice guy, too, though didn’t always notice when he’d annoyed people. (Real nice guy, not Nice Guy™.) Also still alive in his fifties, though I don’t talk to him as much since he moved.

Honestly, most of the seriously overweight people I’ve known have been men.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 month ago

@Alan:
Well, that just makes it even more important that something gets done about the U.S. Senate and that Enabler-In-Chief Mitch McConnell gets thrown out as soon as humanly possible.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Alan Robertshaw
I am praying that Trump fails to nominate another before the election. I know the Republicans do not have any decorum or decency left, but maybe by their own error they can be halted at this pass.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg was an inspiration to many of us. She will be missed.

I am really not looking forward to Republicans mocking her for the next few days. Or Trump’s inevitable backhanded eulogy.

@Jenora Feuer

He was also somewhere around 6’6″, and with most people he could pretty much grab them under one arm, heft them up over his shoulder, and walk off.

This is one of the issues with BMI as a way of measuring weight: it doesn’t account for musculature, which is denser than fat. According to BMI, most professional athletes are obese because they have muscle.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

Sorry to interrupt; but I’m sad to say Ruth Bader Ginsberg has passed away.

May she rest in peace. She was one hell of a fine person.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
1 month ago

@Naglfar:
Nobody I know in the medical field thinks BMI is useful. At all.

When I signed up for a gym a while back, even the personal trainer thought BMI was useless, and what was done there for testing was some combination of physical pinch and pressure test which was supposed to provide a better impression of how much of that mass was actually fat versus muscle.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

Mostly the body positive stuff is “you don’t need to be beautiful to be worthy of respect and love” not about telling people they are beautiful no matter what they look like, but that their body is good enough because it’s there. There a human being and that’s enough reason for them to be respected and cared for.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Jenora Feuer

Nobody I know in the medical field thinks BMI is useful. At all.

That’s what I figured. Unfortunately, that doesn’t stop doctors offices (at least in America) from displaying charts of it, though.

@Lainy

There a human being and that’s enough reason for them to be respected and cared for.

I agree with this idea. It’s great for people to feel and be seen as beautiful regardless of how they are, but it’s even better to dethrone the idea (especially applied to women) that beauty should determine whether someone deserves respect. It shouldn’t matter whether someone is beautiful, they should be treated well by others regardless.

Last edited 1 month ago by Naglfar
sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
1 month ago

Sorry to suddenly go OT here, but I thought I’d pass on the information that Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died.

Lainy
Lainy
1 month ago

@naglfar

It is always great for people to like themselves and like how they look. I have a good friend who was attacked by a dog when he was a little boy. he’s very disfigured from it. He is not a beautiful man, he knows this. little kids and babies cry when they see his face a lot. Some people have actually yelled at him for showing his face in public.

But that is not who he is as a person. He is kind and gentle. He is a good person who does good things and helps other and that is where his worth lies. He is one of the people the body positive movement is for.

Surplus to Requirements
Surplus to Requirements
1 month ago

@Alan Robertshaw:

Hopefully there’ll be no time for a confirmation of a new justice prior to the election.

That’s not the only potential problem here. There’s an elevated likelihood that the court will have to weigh in re: the election, as happened in 2000, and there’s no doubt whatsoever that the vacancy will be exploited to try to goose Repug turnout.

Anyone else think the timing of this is extremely suspicious? Right before an election that gives the Repugs a decent chance of losing at least one of the WH and Senate; right before an election that the court could have a hand in deciding; and right in the middle of a significant episode of civil unrest?

There had better be an investigation, and the Repugs had better not be able to control or influence that investigation.

And the Dems had better avenge Merrick Garland with their own filibuster of Trump’s nominee, to ensure no confirmation can go through ahead of the election and citing the exact same arguments Repugs used when blocking Garland’s nomination in 2016.

@Jenora Feuer:

When I signed up for a gym a while back, even the personal trainer thought BMI was useless, and what was done there for testing was some combination of physical pinch and pressure test which was supposed to provide a better impression of how much of that mass was actually fat versus muscle.

I saw some sort of electrical conductivity test used at one for the same purpose. But it seems there’s a much simpler way, and one discovered three thousand or so years ago by Archimides, no less: Measure how much water someone displaces in a bathtub.

If you can calculate someone’s density (lower density = more of them above the waterline) you can estimate how much of their weight is fat vs. muscle.

Oh, and one more thing on this terrible, awful, no good fucking day:

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reports-21-new-covid-cases-in-schools-51-schools-now-have-virus-case-1.5109292

I have only four words in response to this: “I told you so.” 🙁

NautaliaC
NautaliaC
1 month ago

and has cellulite

Bruh, have you even seen a set of thighs in your life?

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

@sunnysombrera

First day of the Jewish new year, too.

How are we even going to survive?

Crip Dyke
1 month ago

I wrote about RBG on my blog.

We’re really going to miss her.

Tovius
Tovius
1 month ago

And moscow mitch has vowed to hold a vote on trump’s replacement, because of course he is.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
1 month ago

I got ninja’d well in advance, oops.

@Tovius
Of course he is. Republicans don’t give a flying fuck about being hypocrites.

Crip Dyke
1 month ago

What the hell?

I just left a comment on RBG’s death and link to a longer comment on my blog, and I come back again & the comment is completely gone. What’s up, Akismet?

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

@Crip Dyke

It’s still there, posted 8 minutes before your most recent. Just used it to click through and read your piece.

Don’t forget – when you comment, your comment sits at the top of the page til you refresh.

Last edited 1 month ago by Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Crip Dyke
I can see your comment.

@sunnysombrera
The hypocrisy is the point. It gets votes.

Nequam
Nequam
1 month ago

And moscow mitch has vowed to hold a vote on trump’s replacement, because of course he is.

Didn’t even wait for the corpse to cool.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

So, anyone got kompromat on Moscow Mitch?

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

For some strange reason, hateful people spend a great deal of their time explaining to people that they’re not hateful, really, just misunderstood.

I found the perfect specimen, just this morning, via Twitter. This fellow protests the alleged unfair portrayal of groypers and then basically affirms that said portrayal is entirely correct 🙂 🙂

Also, I hope my comment and pic work because it’s the first time I’ve used the brand new pretty pink site!

Crip Dyke
1 month ago

Thanks, Threp.

I thought closing the window then re-opening a WHTM window a few minutes later would put my comment back on the bottom same as a refresh. I guess not. I’ll watch for that in the future.

Sorry for the double-post everyone.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

Hey Mish! Lovely to see you again. Although I wish it was on a nicer thread! But I guess these are the times we live in. Still, seeing you again has made me happy.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

Mish! One of the two people I miss from twitter 🙂

Being well?

@Crip Dyke

No worries. It’s taking some getting used to for me, this new layout. 🙂

Forgot to ask – you had any lingering effects from your dusting with dud CS a month or so back? We used to up our intake of the various B vits to avoid the skin lurgy and the corneal fogging that shit can give you.

Last edited 1 month ago by Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Snowberry
Snowberry
1 month ago

I was just out shopping. I got the “RBG has died” thing on my newsfeed while I was texting someone and hit the wrong phone icon when trying to take a photo for them.

Can’t wait for Mitch McConnell’s “let the people decide” words from early 2016 to be thrown in his face. I suspect that won’t make an actual difference, regardless of how things play out.

Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
Pagan Reader - Misandrist Spinster
1 month ago

Ruth Bader Ginsburg died. Fuck

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
1 month ago

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/18/politics/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dead/index.html

So yeah confirmed

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/18/politics/congress-fight-rgb-seat/index.html

He is very quick on the draw. How many fools are going to be duped by people like Susan Collins Saying this?

https://www.axios.com/trump-ginsburg-supreme-court-10bf5f37-bb33-41d6-a647-1143fbdb2d98.html

The confirmation vote would be tight. Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) told the N.Y. Times’ Jonathan Martin earlier this month that she wouldn’t seat a Supreme Court justice in October: “I think that’s too close, I really do.”

Ah yes I remember her voting in Brett Kavanaugh like it was yesterday. And the rest of the GOP who claimed to be “principled.”

Last edited 1 month ago by Ooglyboggles
tim gueguen
1 month ago

There do seem to be guys outside the MRA et al axis who don’t like short hair. One of the creepier ones is conservative Christian Bill Gothard, who thinks women should wear their hair long and curly. He’s an influence on the infamous Duggar family.

You’d think these guys would be exposed to enough things online to be aware that attractive is subjective, and that some men like women they’d consider overweight. There is a such thing as a weight gain fetish.

Tovius
Tovius
1 month ago

@Ooglyboggles

I imagine collins will be “very concerned” and will vote how mitch wants anyway.

Steph
Steph
1 month ago

What planet is this where older women convince young women to cut their hair and go around insisting men tell fat / obese women that they find them beautiful?

Is this a mythical la la land?

I think the problem is these men struggle to understand that women don’t owe them beauty and so they believe that saying a woman has more value than her looks is the same as saying they cannot have individual preferences for dating.

Last edited 1 month ago by Steph
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

@Alan, it’s so nice to hear from you! I’ve not even been on FB either, so I’ve missed you 🙂

@Threp, are you coming back to twitter ever? I miss talking to you…

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

@Mish

I’m … not sure? Stepped out for a couple months initially because I had a small job come up that had me outcountry for a couple of weeks (unavoidable, was literally the only one they could call on), then were dealing with a wee bit of depression and … I’ve not really missed it, other than you and a couple other people. Some of the writing community too, but I don’t miss the drama!

MV96
MV96
1 month ago

“Cellulite” was appropriated as a word from the medical field to make the way fat distributes itself inside women’s body because of their hormones look like an illness to be cured.
All “cellulite treatments” are scams.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
1 month ago

[F]eminists are being cruel to obese women by lying to them that they look wonderful when they don’t.

So really, you’re being kind, unlike feminists. You’d say a lot more about feminists, but you’re on the nonhateful subreddit.

Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
Kat, ambassador, feminist revolution (in exile)
1 month ago

@Mish
Nice to hear from you. I hope that all is well with you and yours.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 month ago

@ Surplus

Anyone else think the timing of this is extremely suspicious?

Not really. She had pancreatic cancer and was on chemo. Metastatic pancreatic cancer is a cancer you don’t come back from, I was just hoping she would make it a few more weeks. Not to be grim or anything. Rest in peace, RGB.

@ Ooglyboggles

“I think that’s too close, I really do.”

I am not fooled, but they should all be saying this, since February was too close 4 years ago. But I never did expect honor from Republicans in this election. Used to in the past, a little tiny bit, but not a shred now.

Last edited 1 month ago by Big Titty Demon
Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Tim Gueguen

who thinks women should wear their hair long and curly

I find it interesting he wants women to have curly hair. Usually the far right doesn’t like curly hair because they associate it with Jews.

You’d think these guys would be exposed to enough things online to be aware that attractive is subjective

Ah, but that would require awareness of people having other opinions, and MRAs are incapable of that.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

In addition, there’s a TON of content on the internet that peddle the idea that beauty is objective and that everyone should find X “super hot”.

Alan Robertshaw
1 month ago

@ naglfar

I note that a lot of Jewish people are making the point that RBG dying on Rosh Hashanah makes her a Tzadik (or Tzaddeket if you want to be old school about it).

As you’ll know that’s a person of great righteousness. One who is chosen to make a big difference (to over simplify the concept).

I don’t know enough about Kabbalah to comment further; but just in case I think I’ll be tying a bit of red string round my wrist and joining in with the traditional lament/battle cry:

“May her memory be a revolution”

ETA: I do find it intriguing that the root meaning of the word is “Justice”. How appropriate.

Last edited 1 month ago by Alan Robertshaw
Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

Re: fatness

I have so many opinions on how white culture’s skinniness fetish is bullshit, but the thing that really got to me recently is one of the more subtle ways it causes harm:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/aug/26/how-to-take-the-perfect-breath-why-learning-to-breathe-properly-could-change-your-life

It is hardly surprising, she says: “Modern life stops us breathing well.” Stress is associated with small, quick breaths which, in turn, makes us feel even more frazzled. Hartley has observed that people who live in cities, with the added problem of pollution, unconsciously take in shallower breaths. And even tight-fitting clothes, or snug bras, can affect your breathing, while “this mad desire to be skinny”, she says, has meant people holding their stomachs in – she says she has seen people reluctant to take a full breath because it gives a rounded-tummy shape.

Yes seriously. It’s that pervasive.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

Bit of a list, advance apologies

@Cyborgette
You’d think “breathing can make you look fat” would be satire but no 🙁

@Kat
Heeellloooo, lovely! Hope you’re well xx

@Threp
Sorry to hear about the depression, my friend. Twitter breaks are good for the mind – but do feel free to dm me anytime, ok?

@everyone
please accept this pic of Mei-Mei in a bucket

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Alan Robertshaw
Thank you for joining with us in this time of need.

I first found out about RBG’s death when I received a call from a Jewish friend about 5 minutes after the story broke. I had just finished a virtual Erev Rosh Hashanah event and was saddened to hear of her passing. She fit perfectly the definition of the Tzadik and was an inspiration to many.

@Cyborgette

while “this mad desire to be skinny”, she says, has meant people holding their stomachs in – she says she has seen people reluctant to take a full breath because it gives a rounded-tummy shape.

Yes. I confess that I usually don’t breathe as well as I could because of this socialized behavior. A friend of mine is a high school band director and she says that one of the things she has to teach every year to her students is how to take full breaths properly.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

@Mish

Honestly? It was one of the things that made meditation hard for me pre transition, because of the way body image stuff stacked with dysphoria. Used to be I looked like I had a huge masculine potbelly whenever I did diaphragmatic breathing, now it just makes me look 6 months pregnant on inhale instead of the default 3 months.

Anyway, no, absolutely not satire.

And THANK YOU for the kitty. OMG. Mei-Mei is such a wonderful beautiful baby. <3

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Cyborgette

It was one of the things that made meditation hard for me pre transition, because of the way body image stuff stacked with dysphoria. Used to be I looked like I had a huge masculine potbelly whenever I did diaphragmatic breathing

Same here. I’m definitely on the skinny side but my dysphoria really does get worse if I inflate my abdomen too much. I don’t meditate for other reasons as well, but it seems like dysphoria has also contributed to my breathing habits.

LaterSpaceCowboy
1 month ago

“I don’t hate fat woman [sic].” Yea, you don’t. You just call them pejorative names like ‘fatty’ because you are soooooooooo fucking nice and considerate to them that you’ve gone to great lengths to reduce their personhood to a single physical attribute. I think I will start mirroring this behavior toward MGTOWs and red-pillers and incels and just call them “fascies.”

In other news, is anyone else completely and utterly void of life inside because of RBG’s death? I think this must be an Ursula K. LeGuin novel and I’ve crossed over into the Dry Lands. Fuck my life.