The MGTOWs are trying their hand at history again. Only this time they aren’t telling stories about brave cavemen taking down huge mammoths to feed their lazy-ass cavewives. This time they’re suggesting that women’s rights are somehow incompatable with civilization itself.
In the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, a fellow called FlameForgeD2 confidently asserts that
It’s not a coincidence that every civilization before our time has kept women in check and that MGTOW was born in a civilization which doesn’t
Well, no, it’s not a surprise that some backwards men have responded to the increased rights of women by complaining on the internet like a bunch of babies.
But that’s not the point our intrepid historian wants to make: he’s saying that civilizations can’t grow and thrive without putting women down.
Does anyone honestly think that every society ever before just magically decided to “opress” (or so they think) 50+% of it’s population? Or were there reasons for restricting women to go to school and be stay at home housewives and mothers?
There were certainly reasons women were kept down; doing so benefited men, who just happened to have most of the power in society. Now, with some of the central pillers of the patriarchy being chipped away, MGTOWs are crying over the loss of this unearned male privilege.
Of course there were good reasons for such a huge decision, affecting milions. Men and women before covered for each other’s weaknesses. Women in their own way ensured the survival of our species, while men were productive and therefore built and brought to life the very civilization we have now. They made a good team and were productive by covering for each other’s pros and cons.
Apparently, in the mind of FlameForgeD2, the only thing women can do properly is to give birth to babies?
Just how a coleric boss/entrepreneur in a company works well together with a second-in-command melancholic, his right hand. They work together because their strenghts cover for each other’s weaknesses – the entrepreneur is a very diligent and hard working man, while his right hand is the analytical smart thinker.
This is a terrible example, in no way analogous to the alleged differences between men and women, and doesn’t prove much of anything. Got another one?
Oh, crap, he does.
Just how a captain and a first sergeant work well in the military. The captain is the brains of the operation, and the 1SG is the dangerous guy who enforces his decisions by keeping the soldiers below obedient, acting as an bridge between the officer and the soldier.
Weird that none of his examples involve anyone being stripped of their basic human rights.
Oh wait, he’s got still another example.
Just how a carry and support work well in popular MOBA’s. One is weak early but strong later, and the other vice versa – and by playing around each they work well – the support “supports” the carry while he’s weak, and the carry later carries him when the support falls off (his whole team anyway).
MOBA — I had to look it up — stands for “Multiplayer online battle arena.” That’s right. He’s basing his argument for suppressing the rights of women in part on the mechanics of a video game.
But he’s not done yet:
So, what happened since the old system was abolished? The deconstruction of the nuclear family, hypersexuality, degeneracy.
Well, that’s one way of looking at it. Another is to see the last 100 years or so as a period in which half of humanity got to share in the basic human rights the other half took for granted.
Oh, and there’s no “hypersexuality” going on now; people, especially young people, are having less sex than their counterparts were a quarter of a century ago.
The modern feminist narrative is today’s society’s weakness, not it’s strenght.
“Not it’s strenght,” you say?
It is making the western “democracies” more and more decadent and inefficient, and if they continue to honor the modern narrative, they will ultimately succumb to the disciplined nations of the east.
We may be going down the tubes at the moment, but it’s not because of too much democracy, that’s for sure.
The only valiable solution for this madness is for any woke people left to GTOW [Go Their Own Way]. Focus on self defined success and happiness, and don’t help or try to save a society which doesn’t want to help itself and save itself.
Funny how the people talking about “going their own way” always seem to be the people whom society will miss the least.
Somehow the comments inspired by FlameForgeD2’s post managed to be worse than his post.
According to aniani04,
Nature tends to correct itself, every single civilization that tried empowering women ended up going to shit, and we’re witnessing the death of a great civilization just because they didn’t keep their bitches in check… Fascinating!
“Letting women vote made the end inevitable,” declares PipBoyTinkerer.
And then there’s Intp-A1, who seems to think the only solution is like something out of The Handmaid’s Tale.
[S]ociety will ultimately collapse without a sustainable birth rate in the long run. Women must be forced to perform their biological duties, it’s as simple as that. That forcing mechanism will either be before the collapse by men asserting themselves or after a collapse when society is picking up the pieces and wondering what went wrong. Either way it will happen, because the current state of affairs is simply unsustainable.
Dream on, dude.
Remind me again why the MGTOW subreddit hasn’t been banned for hate speech already?
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OT – content warning: sick kitties
Our three cats went to the vet today. They’re getting up there in age (15 and 14), and they’re all sliding into renal failure. The oldest also has just been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism.
As our now-retired vet used to say, “You get so dad-gummed attached to them.”
No, dude. So. Much. NO. A few thoughts:
For one thing, your right hand is that thing at the end of your right arm. I’ve been uncomfortable with that metaphor since I was a wee child in Sunday School. Always hated Sunday School, too; no amount of arts & crafts or punch and cookies ever made me like it. Same for VBS, while I’m at it.
Sorry! Got a little off-track, there.
Next thing, I spent eight years in the military and had a fair few first sergeants. None of them were ‘enforcer’ types. I suppose it’s possible for what you describe to exist, but it’s certainly not the norm. The real military is not actually like a movie or video game.
Last thing, there’s a whole lot more NOPE in that there screed; too much for me to want to take on, but let me say this: Go your own way, already, just SHOO! Maybe you and some others of your ilk can scare (heh) up enough cash to buy that Libertarian paradise lost down in Chile. I’m sure it’ll work out every bit as well.
Sorry to the Chileans, they don’t really deserve any more stupid Americans trying to build fashy Randian utopias.
Vicky P – I hope your kitties do well on a kidney diet, if that’s what’s prescribed. We lost our beloved Catbeast to CKD.
Victorious Parasol, I’m so sorry to hear that. Hugs if you want them. ?
Huh. Now there’s no edit function. I was going to add that my comment has appeared at the top of the thread and perhaps that’s why the comments seem to temporarily disappear; because they’re relocating to the bottom of the thread?
@Victorious Parasol
Sorry to hear about your cats.
@Hambeast
The edit button should be found if you see a little gear icon and click it, there will be a menu with an edit option.
They could always take up seasteading.
@VP
Sorry to hear about your friends. It’s always hard, watching them get old.
@Moon Custafer
The elites were forbidden from doing productive work; that was for the slaves who worked on the estates. People who had to work for a living were not truly free, and were treated with contempt. That was baked into their society from the get-go… it wasn’t the cause of their decline, though it didn’t help. It meant that as a society they were relatively poor compared to their neighbours, because that’s what happens when you don’t value productive labor. This is bad news when your enemies can afford mercenaries and siege engineers and the like, and you can’t.
Their main problem was basically greed. Land was a critical resource to the elite, as it was the sole source of their wealth. If they fell below a certain threshold of wealth, they and their descendants would be forever barred from the elite class. Unfortunately, they set up a system that concentrated the wealth and power in the hands of fewer and fewer, making it impractical to support a large elite class and the richest Spartans were unprepared to give up their own wealth to allow others into their exclusive club.
Then they got a much-deserved kicking from their neighbours, and then the Macedonians, and then the Romans, and ended up as a tourist attraction and modern-day gun-fondler fetish.
Thanks, everyone. They’re all home from the vet now, and being their usual post-visit cranky selves.
Wow, that’s even stupider than I’d heard. Sparta is like somebody had a “design the most hobbled-by-snobbery society” contest.
@VP, I am sorry to hear about your cats. I hope they get over their post-vet grumps quickly and settle back in at home.
We’re going through something similar with our elderly cat. I know he has had a good, long, happy life, but I will miss him when he has to leave us. I’m happy for every day we have left to share with this furry little demon.
VP, sorry to hear about your cats, hope they get over the vet visit soon; I know mine hate that particular experience.
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>Remind me again why the MGTOW subreddit hasn’t been banned for hate speech already?
I’m going out on a limb and assuming it’s because Reddit wants their money. It’s always about the money.
(How do you use quotes on this?)
@Anonymous
There’s a button. If you’re on mobile it says “B-QUOTE” and if you’re on a computer it looks like a quotation mark. Hit it before and after your quote.
In 1920, when women were granted the vote in the US, the world population was around 2 billion. Now it’s around 7.8 billion. It doesn’t seem like women having rights has caused any birthrate problems to me.
(But I assume that these chucklefucks are the kind to consider the only white birthrate to be relevant, aren’t they? Have some racism to go along with their misogyny.)
@Catalpa:
In fact, the birthrate in most countries dropped dramatically over the second half (and mostly over the fourth quarter) of the 20th century, often after experiencing a significant rise, or a drop followed by a rise, over the first half.
The same general demographic pattern is seen regardless of whether the country in question enacted women’s suffrage before 1900 (such as New Zealand), or in the early 20th century (such as the UK and US), or in the late 20th century (such as Kuwait), or even in the 21st century (such as Oman).
Birthrates plummeted for women in almost all societies after about 1960, whether they had the vote or not. And as you note, this didn’t stop the overall world population from continuing to grow, either.
Oooh, those sinister disciplined civilizations of the East! Did this dude get his concept of geopolitics from the start of the last century?
Naglfar – Thanks for the tip! And I like the sea steading idea, too.
I’m still not seeing a gear anywhere, but maybe I have to post first?
Edited to add: Yep! There she is!! Thanks again!
If the poster thinks of himself as the entrepreneur, he is welcome to have fun with his right hand. There is nothing wrong with self-love. And meanwhile, he would not be able to post shit on the Internet.
Now, if your right hand is smarter than you, it may be bad new for you (insert picture of Migi from the manga Parasite here).
No, Dave, it does prove something. That even his own analogies are between equal partners. If he was being honest to himself and to his audience, he’d talk about the synergy between a choleric slave and a melancholic master, and then have to admit that the choleric slave would get beaten.
With regard to the cartoon:
Look! it’s Corporal ‘Nobby’ Nobbs and Sergeant Colon!