By David Futrelle
Maybe it’s time to change the name of this blog.
As many of you know, the current name is an ironic reference to a rant by one MRA type who was angry that women weren’t showing the proper gratitude for all that men had allegedly done for them over the centuries, and who at one point in his rant blurted out “we hunted the mammoth to feed you,” as if he himself were some sort of manly mammoth slayer instead of just some dude ranting on the internet. (Never mind that our ancient ancestors mostly ate plants and smaller game as opposed to these giant monsters with sharp tusks who could easily kill them.)
“We Hunted the Mammoth” has served ably as the name of this blog for years. But now I’m wondering if I should rename it “We Invented Your Fucking Tampoons [sic], for Fucks Sake,” in homage to this exceedingly angry rant from the Incels.co forums.
![[RageFuel] How dare women disrespect men when we gave them everything they have now?
Uglyme
Incel lives matter
★★
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Posts
4,663
Online
47d 16h 6m
Yesterday at 4:30 PM
#1
Bitch, we built the fucking society you're benefiting from so much. We allow you to work, vote, we gave you rights, we created the medicines and technology you use every day. We gave you education to learn to bitch about how misogynistic (ugly) men are. We invented your fucking tampoons, for fucks sake. You're so stupid that you wouldn't be able to survive a week without being a whore on OnlyFans. And you dare to tell me on my face I'm too ugly to date you're used up ass? Fuck you whore, I hope you get raped on a empty alley](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-08-29_13-44-10USE.png?resize=580%2C1598&ssl=1)
Who’s this “we,” dude? You haven’t built or invented anything. You can’t claim credit for all the achievements of men throughout the centuries any more than a woman can claim credit for everything women have done to keep civilization running. Wishing rape on someone — real or imaginary, I can’t tell — who turned you down for a date is not an accomplishment. Nor, it goes without saying, are attitudes like this particularly conducive to getting dates in the future.
On the Incels.co forums, of course, almost all the commenters agreed with Uglyme. “Amen. A fucking men,” wrote a commenter called TheLastSorrow, declaring women to be “[t]he most ungrateful gender hands down. They deserve to get abused.”
VinventVanCock agreed, praising Uglyme’s rant as “[p]oetry, hoes should be beaten and enslaved to learn manners.”
Meanwhile, someone called Copexodius_Maximus suggested that Chads were as lazy and ungrateful as women.
Males have to do all that stuff cause we are inferior and have to make up for our ugliness in order to attract women. Chads don’t need to innovate or build, women throw themselves at them, and even take care of them like Jeremy Meeks. Women don’t need to build shit even if they could because they can mostly all attract mates without money or status.
Women love beta males for building society for them, so they can be safe and comfortable enough to fuck Chad more.
Mainlander complained that women aren’t giving out gratitude sex to men for allegedly building the world:
Women are not very good at gratitude and they are utterly incapable of even thinking about doing something sexual or romantic out of gratitude.
“Gratitude sex” is not a thing. It’s especially not a thing when the men demanding it 1) haven’t done anything worthy of gratitude and 2) are so steeped in misogynistic hate that it seeps out their pores.
PS: I’m not going to change the name of the blog.
H/T — ExpelIncels
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@ Arbilester, thank you ?. Just when I feel I’ve got this “internet” thing worked out, something like this happens.
@ Kevin,
It is! From Carpe Jugulum, I’m pretty sure.
@Naglfar, I’ve long wondered how French handles gender-neutral or nonbinary pronouns, and I did some research on Google, and voila! This made me happy (though I really wish it wasn’t described in the article as “a debate”, just accepted as a fact…):
From here, if you’re interested: https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Nonbinary-pronoun-they-sparks-French-language-debate-after-Merriam-Webster-word-of-the-year-nonbinary
On the other hand, the posts that there’s someone to argue with get much more engagement. Could be Lenona threw themself on the grenade to drive up traffic.
@Threp
Maybe some of it is deliberate, but I’m pretty sure a large chunk of his behavior is unintentionally self-owning. It’s hard for me to believe he would deliberately self-own as often as he does.
He also very clearly doesn’t think things through. As a minority working for the alt right, if he were a bit smarter he’d realize that the instant he is no longer useful, they will turn on him, but he doesn’t seem to be cognizant of that fact.
@Masse_mysteria
I always find it a bit funny when transphobes insist that sex is binary and say that that is “8th grade biology.” Do they not realize that biology continues past the 8th grade? Pretty much any subject in grade school is going to be simplified so kids can understand it more easily, then expanded upon at higher levels.
@C.A. Collins
I think that would require self-awareness that Lenona lacks.
Far as his self owns go, I do think there’s a large component of this (hopefully image embeds!):
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/6b/6b8e14ac2c4b1aa0e9c6ac5e68986ad820555262801f28a2f5ab14f0a36f0d11.jpg
Boring old git digression time:
In the early years against ISIL, we’d get a new lot rotating in and expecting to be dealing with a disorganised rabble, like they’d seen on the news. Instead they were dealing with a very organised and quite efficient army. The eye-opening were unpleasant, for the survivors.
So I prefer to assume he – and the others – do think things through though. It costs me absolutely nothing to assume they are at least as intelligent as me and reduces nasty surprises.
@Lenona – JFC. You’re seriously citing a site called “Bratfree” as a model of rational, unemotional behavior?
And where are children supposed to learn how to behave in public, if not at kid-friendly places like McDonald’s that offer play structures and coloring mats? Kids aren’t born understanding social etiquette and restaurant rules. They need to be taught, again and again. It’s a long process. The idea that children should sit quietly through an entire meal on their first (or second, or even tenth) trip to a restaurant is a fantasy, mostly held by people who don’t have kids. Even the most well-behaved kid can get overly excited when they’re on a special outing in an unfamiliar place with new rules.
And “parental accountability” is just another slippery-slope way of criminalizing childhood. Kids can’t even walk 2 blocks to the park by themselves anymore without some busybody calling CPS on them. Now you’re proposing to make parents stay home with their kids until they’re…what, 10? 12? 16? 21? What’s the magic age at which you can be sure they won’t annoy someone in public?
Yes, parents should discipline kids. But kids are also autonomous human beings with agency. They make impulsive decisions. They act. Their decisions won’t always be good ones. You can lecture, cajole, bribe and take away dessert till you’re blue in the face, you can even get them to understand and agree, and then in the moment they’ll go ahead and do what their brain tells them to anyway. It’s how they are.
Shaming the parents isn’t going to change the kids’ behavior. That fatigued, bleary-eyed mom you see at McDonald’s needs a break. She’s trying to get out of the house and recharge. She’s already told Johnny to stop jumping on the couch 100 times today. She’s worn out. She doesn’t need some sanctimonious childfree advocate piling on and lecturing her about her apparent unwillingness to discipline her kids. You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. It’s easy (and feels righteously good…uh oh, EMOTIONS) to assume parents are incompetent, when in fact they’re just tired.
Whatever you think you would do differently, whatever magic child-whispering powers you imagine yourself to have, they’ve tried a hundred times already.
“Oh, gee, I never thought of telling them to stop. How clever of you!” said no parent, ever.
@Shadowplay
Wouldn’t he be more effective if he could get through a conversation without looking like an idiot, though? I mean, maybe he is doing the idiocy as an act, but I’ve never seen him be at all rational or coherent so I don’t think we should assume he is without evidence to that effect.
@Buttercup
Presumably she thinks until they’re old enough to have one night stands (unless they’re gay in which case I have no idea because of her reliance on stereotypes).
In my experience, I’ve witnessed way more publicly annoying and obnoxious behavior from adults than from any kids. Adults are far more likely to physically assault and verbally harass other adults, as evidenced by how many videos there now are of anti-mask people attacking store employees. Even pre-pandemic, there is no shortage of examples of adults flipping out over minor things at store employees or fast food servers.
Furthermore, the policing of kids to conform to behavior has some deeply ableist, misogynistic, and cisheteronormative overtones. If you see a kid melting down, you usually don’t know why. Maybe they have a sensory processing issue and are overloaded by stimuli. Under Lenona’s ideas, that kid shouldn’t be allowed to go outside lest they be a “brat.” And that’s before getting into how girls and boys are often held to very different standards of behavior, or how anyone who doesn’t fit their assigned gender roles is treated under this.
@Naglfar
You never see Paris Hilton being rational or particularly coherent – yet everyone who actually works with her says she’s far from stupid.
His idiotic takes get him noticed. It pays, both financially and in terms of influence.
Dismissing him, or others of his type with “The right are stupid” is a particularly attractive trap to fall into. Very tempting.
It’s also a very foolish assumption to make.
After all, who’s in charge right now?
Trump isn’t President because he’s brilliant, he’s President because he’s openly racist and that appeals to the racism in waaay too many Americans.
@Bookworm in hyjab : it’s not really used in practice. You showed one of the dozen of confidential practice for neutral pronouns, none who are actually widespread.
Amusingly, there is a neutral pronoun in french to supplement “il” and “elle”. But it refer to crowds and often imply the speaker is in the aforementioned crowd. (it will very likely replace the plural forms in several decades based on evolution of use)
One of the big family of feminine variation is *also* negatively connoted [word in -euse, like “pleureuse” or “gueuse”], so at that point my personal opinion is to stop according nouns and adjective to gender whenever practical, since it simultaneously deal with that problem, transgender problem, *and* put a stop to the assholes who insist on the rule “masculinity alway win” in grammar.
@nagflar : a quest on a RPG recently asked me to sink the Nagflar. That seem horribly cavalier. Especially since I like yuskis and similar dogs 🙁
@Buttercup Skullpants
This. So much.
Just about the only reason to bring your kids to McDonald’s is the playplace, although those are getting harder and harder to find. If it’s cold and raining outside, then what other place could a mother go to get Johnny’s wiggles out than the place with a (indoor) playground? Kids do have a developmental need to be active. I know I was there literally every week when my kids were small-it’s where I worked on my homework, and my kids could bounce and climb to their hearts content.
And I get it. Something about McDonald’s can bring out some really shitty behavior in both parents and kids, like ignoring little Jonny punching or pushing other kids. And I really do hate other people’s kids. But being “bratty” and other attention seeking behavior like she’s bitching about? GTFO.
@Threp
It gets him noticed, but I think even beyond that, he genuinely is stupid. I’ve never heard anyone outside of the right wing echo chamber who has interacted with him say that he’s smart.
@Ohlmann
Evidently you haven’t completed the quest, as I’m still here 😉
@Moogue
The only person showing attention seeking behavior here seems to be Lenona.
Hebrew has no good way to make things gender-neutral yet; gendering is such an essential part of the language that it’s inescapable (even more than in Romance languages, because at least there the verb forms are neutral – je regarde, tu regardes, il/elle regarde etc., the verb is the same in masculine and feminine – while in Hebrew we have different forms for almost all pronouns). There are several suggested solutions, and some ways to go around gender, but those mostly work in writing, not as well in speech.
Most of the queer/enby folx I know end up preferring that people use mixed pronouns when talking to them (and talk that way about themselves as well). e.g “You[m] look[m] amazing[f], where did you buy[m] this shirt, it really brings out your[f] eyes” and so on. Can be a bit confusing but you get used to it.
@ Ohlmann,
Thanks, good to know even though I wish it were otherwise. I don’t often hang around with French speakers for whom it’s their first language, so just because I haven’t heard it in conversation, I didn’t like to assume. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that google isn’t always the best resource *sigh*.
This:
seems like an excellent idea. I am always in favour of stopping assholes from being jerks whenever possible ?.
Please so Not Change that because a reference to someone wanting Credit/women’s gratitude for something men supposedly did several Millenia ago is much funnier than for something that is several decades ago (I mean, Like, the Kind with applicators?)
My take on tampoon was that it’s a cross of tampon and pontoon. A double fail in that they’d fail to keep your party boat afloat and still be much too large to fit in anyone’s vag.
re: maroon – I always thought it was objectionable because it was just “moron” with an extra “o” to veil the ableism. Once again, Dalillama educates me!
There’s actually a website called “bratfree”?? Sounds pretty heartless. And I’m a childless-by-choice person.
I actually like kids. I like dogs, too, but I’ve never had one.
That, and you never know what the reason for the “bad” behavior is. My brother is autistic and sometimes acted out in public as a kid if he got overwhelmed. My parents would get judgmental glares, but it wasn’t their fault and they did to plenty of work with him to get him to a place where he could deal with things when he’s upset, but it’s a process and it took years.
@Naglfar
Not to mention that sometimes “even kids understand [gross oversimplification]” works better as an argument for teaching something that’s closer to truth. I’m also often astonished that some like to think kids will be confused if you tell them about gender diversity. I was way confused by my gender identity long before I knew what one was, and having to try and figure it out on my own during puberty and whatnot was not… ideal.
@Penny Psmith; on mixed pronouns
I know it’s not really the same thing, but I once worked in an English-language environment where a guy kept altering which pronouns he used, but it was more conversation-to-conversation (starting the morning by referring to me as “she”, then switching to “he” at the next opportunity). I didn’t even realise he’d been doing it until about a week after I’d left the place, though, so it’s possible he was somehow gauging my reaction and hoping I’d tell him my preference.
It’s silly. We teach kids some variation of “what counts is how you are on the inside” all the time. We teach kids that we’re all human inside so you shouldn’t judge someone by their skin call. We teach kids that a person who isn’t conventionally attractive can be beautiful on the inside. Etc.
So why on earth can’t we tell kids that you can be a boy on the inside even if you look like a girl, a girl on the inside even if you look like a boy, or neither a boy or girl even if you look like one or the other? Sure, gender identity is more complicated than that, but they can handle the above just fine. I hate when adults try to blame their own bigotry on children.
@Masse_mysteria
It generally seems like kids understand things like gender diversity better than adults, either because many adults don’t want to or just can’t. Even many cis children are far more accepting and understanding of trans* and non-binary peers than adults are.
It’s the same as how homophobes think that if children learn about gay people they will think they are gay.
Re Ohlmann and “put a stop to the assholes who insist on the rule “masculinity alway win” in grammar” – similar issue in Hebrew (although as explained, you can’t just say “let’s cancel gendered forms” because we don’t have much that isn’t gendered). In theory the masculine form is the so-called neutral (because that’s the base form that you add the various suffixes/prefixes to, like the ones that indicate the feminine) so throughout history it’s been the default and seen to include women as well. Like, you can ask someone “how many boys do you have?” and it’s understood that actually means “children” of either gender (while asking “how many girls do you have?” will be seen as referring to only girls). Or you’d address a class, or any group of people, using masculine verbs, unless they’re 100% women (and sometimes not even then).
So, feminists are trying to change those defaults by using the feminine forms as the general “neutral”, because it can be really tiring when the language excludes you like that (although I must admit I still don’t do this very often, it’s easier to just fall into the old habit). And the assholes rage, because how dare they twist language for their political agenda etc. etc.
One of my favourite rebuttals is asking how they talk about nurses and secretaries – because those are two nouns that are almost always used in the feminine, because of historical (sexist) reasons and because they’re still majority female. So far I have not yet run into any of those assholes that would talk about, say, “the nurses[m] room”, and it’s kinda fun to see them squirm when they try to explain why that’s okay but with other nouns it isn’t.
Also, I have never seen any convincing report of any child being actually troubled by transgender people without the child being told they are monsters, creeps, or both. A bunch of them seem to not understand, just as some seem to not understand that the other sex have different genitals or why adult kiss.
I am not surprised by that, since it match the number of time people have cross dressed to go into the other sex bathrooms and do non consensual stuff.
@Ohlmann – In Quebec, I’ve heard “e” as a gender-neutral pronoun, but this was in a university setting and maybe not widespread.
Do you mean “on”? That would make a lot of sense! And it’s already grammatically singular.
When I learned it as a kid, I was confused why a word used like English “we” was singular. I guess it started out like the English pronoun “one.” We can say (on peut dire 😉 ) “one would do this” as in “someone would do this” but it sounds old-fashioned now.
As for other languages, Farsi (Persian) and Twi (a West African language spoken around Ghana) have gender-neutral 3rd-person pronouns, at least according to friends/colleagues who’d sometimes mix up “he” and “she” in English since they weren’t used to making the distinction.
@ epitome of irresponsibility
One must beg to differ.
@Ohlmann
The only such reports I’ve seen were very sketchy ones from transphobes claiming that learning about LGBT people made their children scared. Really, I’ve never seen any objection from children to trans* inclusion unless their parents taught them to. Bigotry is often learned rather than innate.
@Epitome
In much of Africa gender has historically been viewed very differently than in Europe. For instance, among the Igbo people of Nigeria gender roles and expression were much more fluid, and Igbo native speakers often have the same issues relating to gendered pronouns. Much of the world has had non-binary gender historically, it is with European colonialism that much of this went away due to persecution of transgender and GNC people. This is why it especially irks me when TERFs say that trans* women are “colonizing” womanhood: because transphobia is very closely tied to colonialism and white supremacy, as demonstrated by the recent incidents in the UK where white TERFs showed up at a BLM protest and started shouting about JK Rowling.
@Naglfar, An Autistic Giraffe:
Specifically, the reference was to Mabel from Gravity Falls, who is an incredibly cheerful, silly, and almost always nice little girl, and rather the ‘heart’ of the show. Bill Cipher was a sentient Illuminati pyramid spirit from the same show who goes around possessing people and using them do do things. Hence the line.
It was a very strange show.
@Bookworm in Hijab:
*laughs* I got to hear Kari sing that song in person at Ad Astra a couple of years back. Along with other songs like ‘Take My Sheep’, about playing Settlers of Catan. (With lines like ‘Is this revenge for how I used to gloat at Carcassone?’)