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Should I change the name of the blog to “We Invented Your Fucking Tampoons, for Fucks Sake?”

By David Futrelle

Maybe it’s time to change the name of this blog.

As many of you know, the current name is an ironic reference to a rant by one MRA type who was angry that women weren’t showing the proper gratitude for all that men had allegedly done for them over the centuries, and who at one point in his rant blurted out “we hunted the mammoth to feed you,” as if he himself were some sort of manly mammoth slayer instead of just some dude ranting on the internet. (Never mind that our ancient ancestors mostly ate plants and smaller game as opposed to these giant monsters with sharp tusks who could easily kill them.)

“We Hunted the Mammoth” has served ably as the name of this blog for years. But now I’m wondering if I should rename it “We Invented Your Fucking Tampoons [sic], for Fucks Sake,” in homage to this exceedingly angry rant from the Incels.co forums.

[RageFuel] How dare women disrespect men when we gave them everything they have now?

Uglyme
Incel lives matter
★★
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Yesterday at 4:30 PM
#1

Bitch, we built the fucking society you're benefiting from so much. We allow you to work, vote, we gave you rights, we created the medicines and technology you use every day. We gave you education to learn to bitch about how misogynistic (ugly) men are. We invented your fucking tampoons, for fucks sake. You're so stupid that you wouldn't be able to survive a week without being a whore on OnlyFans. And you dare to tell me on my face I'm too ugly to date you're used up ass? Fuck you whore, I hope you get raped on a empty alley

Who’s this “we,” dude? You haven’t built or invented anything. You can’t claim credit for all the achievements of men throughout the centuries any more than a woman can claim credit for everything women have done to keep civilization running. Wishing rape on someone — real or imaginary, I can’t tell — who turned you down for a date is not an accomplishment. Nor, it goes without saying, are attitudes like this particularly conducive to getting dates in the future.

On the Incels.co forums, of course, almost all the commenters agreed with Uglyme. “Amen. A fucking men,” wrote a commenter called TheLastSorrow, declaring women to be “[t]he most ungrateful gender hands down. They deserve to get abused.”

VinventVanCock agreed, praising Uglyme’s rant as “[p]oetry, hoes should be beaten and enslaved to learn manners.”

Meanwhile, someone called Copexodius_Maximus suggested that Chads were as lazy and ungrateful as women.

Males have to do all that stuff cause we are inferior and have to make up for our ugliness in order to attract women. Chads don’t need to innovate or build, women throw themselves at them, and even take care of them like Jeremy Meeks. Women don’t need to build shit even if they could because they can mostly all attract mates without money or status.

Women love beta males for building society for them, so they can be safe and comfortable enough to fuck Chad more.

Mainlander complained that women aren’t giving out gratitude sex to men for allegedly building the world:

Women are not very good at gratitude and they are utterly incapable of even thinking about doing something sexual or romantic out of gratitude.

“Gratitude sex” is not a thing. It’s especially not a thing when the men demanding it 1) haven’t done anything worthy of gratitude and 2) are so steeped in misogynistic hate that it seeps out their pores.

PS: I’m not going to change the name of the blog.

H/T — ExpelIncels

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Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
29 days ago

@ Arbilester, thank you 😊. Just when I feel I’ve got this “internet” thing worked out, something like this happens.

@ Kevin,

I think it may be from Pratchett, but I’m not sure

It is! From Carpe Jugulum, I’m pretty sure.

@Naglfar, I’ve long wondered how French handles gender-neutral or nonbinary pronouns, and I did some research on Google, and voila! This made me happy (though I really wish it wasn’t described in the article as “a debate”, just accepted as a fact…):

In French, people have begun to use the pronoun “iel” (and sometimes “ille”) to refer to a nonbinary person. Linguistically, these are a mix of “il” and “elle”…

Some people have also begun to use pronouns in French such as “ol”, “al”, “ul” or “yul”.

From here, if you’re interested: https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Nonbinary-pronoun-they-sparks-French-language-debate-after-Merriam-Webster-word-of-the-year-nonbinary

C.A.Collins
C.A.Collins
29 days ago

On the other hand, the posts that there’s someone to argue with get much more engagement. Could be Lenona threw themself on the grenade to drive up traffic.

Naglfar
Naglfar
29 days ago

@Threp

Shapiro bothers me more than most of the dork right, because his crap is very, very deliberate. It’s not unthinking, and he does have something approaching a normal conscience

Maybe some of it is deliberate, but I’m pretty sure a large chunk of his behavior is unintentionally self-owning. It’s hard for me to believe he would deliberately self-own as often as he does.
He also very clearly doesn’t think things through. As a minority working for the alt right, if he were a bit smarter he’d realize that the instant he is no longer useful, they will turn on him, but he doesn’t seem to be cognizant of that fact.

@Masse_mysteria

biological sex was such an obvious and clear-cut thing before kids these days invented 72 additional genders

I always find it a bit funny when transphobes insist that sex is binary and say that that is “8th grade biology.” Do they not realize that biology continues past the 8th grade? Pretty much any subject in grade school is going to be simplified so kids can understand it more easily, then expanded upon at higher levels.

@C.A. Collins
I think that would require self-awareness that Lenona lacks.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
29 days ago

Far as his self owns go, I do think there’s a large component of this (hopefully image embeds!):

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/6b/6b8e14ac2c4b1aa0e9c6ac5e68986ad820555262801f28a2f5ab14f0a36f0d11.jpg

Boring old git digression time:

In the early years against ISIL, we’d get a new lot rotating in and expecting to be dealing with a disorganised rabble, like they’d seen on the news. Instead they were dealing with a very organised and quite efficient army. The eye-opening were unpleasant, for the survivors.

So I prefer to assume he – and the others – do think things through though. It costs me absolutely nothing to assume they are at least as intelligent as me and reduces nasty surprises.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
29 days ago

@Lenona – JFC. You’re seriously citing a site called “Bratfree” as a model of rational, unemotional behavior?

When you think about it, kids shouldn’t be allowed to run and scream even at McDonald’s, despite the lack of waiters carrying hot coffee or soup. Why? Because you never know when some elderly customer might get knocked over and break a hip, and anyone might be having the beginning of a migraine, including the parent. If kids can sit quietly at home but not at a restaurant, then they can’t go there, for everyone’s safety.

And where are children supposed to learn how to behave in public, if not at kid-friendly places like McDonald’s that offer play structures and coloring mats? Kids aren’t born understanding social etiquette and restaurant rules. They need to be taught, again and again. It’s a long process. The idea that children should sit quietly through an entire meal on their first (or second, or even tenth) trip to a restaurant is a fantasy, mostly held by people who don’t have kids. Even the most well-behaved kid can get overly excited when they’re on a special outing in an unfamiliar place with new rules.

And “parental accountability” is just another slippery-slope way of criminalizing childhood. Kids can’t even walk 2 blocks to the park by themselves anymore without some busybody calling CPS on them. Now you’re proposing to make parents stay home with their kids until they’re…what, 10? 12? 16? 21? What’s the magic age at which you can be sure they won’t annoy someone in public?

Yes, parents should discipline kids. But kids are also autonomous human beings with agency. They make impulsive decisions. They act. Their decisions won’t always be good ones. You can lecture, cajole, bribe and take away dessert till you’re blue in the face, you can even get them to understand and agree, and then in the moment they’ll go ahead and do what their brain tells them to anyway. It’s how they are.

Shaming the parents isn’t going to change the kids’ behavior. That fatigued, bleary-eyed mom you see at McDonald’s needs a break. She’s trying to get out of the house and recharge. She’s already told Johnny to stop jumping on the couch 100 times today. She’s worn out. She doesn’t need some sanctimonious childfree advocate piling on and lecturing her about her apparent unwillingness to discipline her kids. You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. It’s easy (and feels righteously good…uh oh, EMOTIONS) to assume parents are incompetent, when in fact they’re just tired.

Whatever you think you would do differently, whatever magic child-whispering powers you imagine yourself to have, they’ve tried a hundred times already.

“Oh, gee, I never thought of telling them to stop. How clever of you!” said no parent, ever.

Naglfar
Naglfar
29 days ago

@Shadowplay

So I prefer to assume he – and the others – do think things through though. It costs me absolutely nothing to assume they are at least as intelligent as me and reduces nasty surprises.

Wouldn’t he be more effective if he could get through a conversation without looking like an idiot, though? I mean, maybe he is doing the idiocy as an act, but I’ve never seen him be at all rational or coherent so I don’t think we should assume he is without evidence to that effect.

@Buttercup

Now you’re proposing to make parents stay home with their kids until they’re…what, 10? 12? 16? 21? What’s the magic age at which you can be sure they won’t annoy someone in public?

Presumably she thinks until they’re old enough to have one night stands (unless they’re gay in which case I have no idea because of her reliance on stereotypes).

In my experience, I’ve witnessed way more publicly annoying and obnoxious behavior from adults than from any kids. Adults are far more likely to physically assault and verbally harass other adults, as evidenced by how many videos there now are of anti-mask people attacking store employees. Even pre-pandemic, there is no shortage of examples of adults flipping out over minor things at store employees or fast food servers.

Furthermore, the policing of kids to conform to behavior has some deeply ableist, misogynistic, and cisheteronormative overtones. If you see a kid melting down, you usually don’t know why. Maybe they have a sensory processing issue and are overloaded by stimuli. Under Lenona’s ideas, that kid shouldn’t be allowed to go outside lest they be a “brat.” And that’s before getting into how girls and boys are often held to very different standards of behavior, or how anyone who doesn’t fit their assigned gender roles is treated under this.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
29 days ago

@Naglfar

… I mean, maybe he is doing the idiocy as an act, but I’ve never seen him be at all rational or coherent …

You never see Paris Hilton being rational or particularly coherent – yet everyone who actually works with her says she’s far from stupid.

His idiotic takes get him noticed. It pays, both financially and in terms of influence.

Dismissing him, or others of his type with “The right are stupid” is a particularly attractive trap to fall into. Very tempting.

It’s also a very foolish assumption to make.

After all, who’s in charge right now?

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
29 days ago

After all, who’s in charge right now?

Trump isn’t President because he’s brilliant, he’s President because he’s openly racist and that appeals to the racism in waaay too many Americans.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
29 days ago

@Bookworm in hyjab : it’s not really used in practice. You showed one of the dozen of confidential practice for neutral pronouns, none who are actually widespread.

Amusingly, there is a neutral pronoun in french to supplement “il” and “elle”. But it refer to crowds and often imply the speaker is in the aforementioned crowd. (it will very likely replace the plural forms in several decades based on evolution of use)

One of the big family of feminine variation is *also* negatively connoted [word in -euse, like “pleureuse” or “gueuse”], so at that point my personal opinion is to stop according nouns and adjective to gender whenever practical, since it simultaneously deal with that problem, transgender problem, *and* put a stop to the assholes who insist on the rule “masculinity alway win” in grammar.

@nagflar : a quest on a RPG recently asked me to sink the Nagflar. That seem horribly cavalier. Especially since I like yuskis and similar dogs 🙁

Moogue
Moogue
29 days ago

@Buttercup Skullpants

And where are children supposed to learn how to behave in public, if not at kid-friendly places like McDonald’s that offer play structures and coloring mats? Kids aren’t born understanding social etiquette and restaurant rules. They need to be taught, again and again. It’s a long process.

This. So much.

Just about the only reason to bring your kids to McDonald’s is the playplace, although those are getting harder and harder to find. If it’s cold and raining outside, then what other place could a mother go to get Johnny’s wiggles out than the place with a (indoor) playground? Kids do have a developmental need to be active. I know I was there literally every week when my kids were small-it’s where I worked on my homework, and my kids could bounce and climb to their hearts content.

And I get it. Something about McDonald’s can bring out some really shitty behavior in both parents and kids, like ignoring little Jonny punching or pushing other kids. And I really do hate other people’s kids. But being “bratty” and other attention seeking behavior like she’s bitching about? GTFO.

Naglfar
Naglfar
29 days ago

@Threp
It gets him noticed, but I think even beyond that, he genuinely is stupid. I’ve never heard anyone outside of the right wing echo chamber who has interacted with him say that he’s smart.

@Ohlmann

a quest on a RPG recently asked me to sink the Nagflar. That seem horribly cavalier.

Evidently you haven’t completed the quest, as I’m still here 😉

@Moogue

But being “bratty” and other attention seeking behavior like she’s bitching about?

The only person showing attention seeking behavior here seems to be Lenona.

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
29 days ago

Hebrew has no good way to make things gender-neutral yet; gendering is such an essential part of the language that it’s inescapable (even more than in Romance languages, because at least there the verb forms are neutral – je regarde, tu regardes, il/elle regarde etc., the verb is the same in masculine and feminine – while in Hebrew we have different forms for almost all pronouns). There are several suggested solutions, and some ways to go around gender, but those mostly work in writing, not as well in speech.
Most of the queer/enby folx I know end up preferring that people use mixed pronouns when talking to them (and talk that way about themselves as well). e.g “You[m] look[m] amazing[f], where did you buy[m] this shirt, it really brings out your[f] eyes” and so on. Can be a bit confusing but you get used to it.

Bookworm in hijab
Bookworm in hijab
29 days ago

@ Ohlmann,

it’s not really used in practice. You showed one of the dozen of confidential practice for neutral pronouns, none who are actually widespread

Thanks, good to know even though I wish it were otherwise. I don’t often hang around with French speakers for whom it’s their first language, so just because I haven’t heard it in conversation, I didn’t like to assume. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that google isn’t always the best resource *sigh*.

This:

my personal opinion is to stop according nouns and adjective to gender whenever practical, since it simultaneously deal with that problem, transgender problem, *and* put a stop to the assholes who insist on the rule “masculinity alway win” in grammar.

seems like an excellent idea. I am always in favour of stopping assholes from being jerks whenever possible 😁.

Klaaraa
Klaaraa
29 days ago

Please so Not Change that because a reference to someone wanting Credit/women’s gratitude for something men supposedly did several Millenia ago is much funnier than for something that is several decades ago (I mean, Like, the Kind with applicators?)

Hambeast
Hambeast
29 days ago

My take on tampoon was that it’s a cross of tampon and pontoon. A double fail in that they’d fail to keep your party boat afloat and still be much too large to fit in anyone’s vag.

re: maroon – I always thought it was objectionable because it was just “moron” with an extra “o” to veil the ableism. Once again, Dalillama educates me!

There’s actually a website called “bratfree”?? Sounds pretty heartless. And I’m a childless-by-choice person.

I actually like kids. I like dogs, too, but I’ve never had one.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Look, I’m a full on asshole in stores because I HATE dealing with other people’s kids. But even I can tell you one thing, people who judge parents for ignoring misbehavior based upon 2 seconds of observing those parents are morons. If no-body’s getting hurt, a lot of times ignoring misbehavior is literally the most effective discipline there is, and yelling, taking out of the store, etc. is either too abstract or takes too long to be effective.

That, and you never know what the reason for the “bad” behavior is. My brother is autistic and sometimes acted out in public as a kid if he got overwhelmed. My parents would get judgmental glares, but it wasn’t their fault and they did to plenty of work with him to get him to a place where he could deal with things when he’s upset, but it’s a process and it took years.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
29 days ago

@Naglfar

Pretty much any subject in grade school is going to be simplified so kids can understand it more easily, then expanded upon at higher levels.

Not to mention that sometimes “even kids understand [gross oversimplification]” works better as an argument for teaching something that’s closer to truth. I’m also often astonished that some like to think kids will be confused if you tell them about gender diversity. I was way confused by my gender identity long before I knew what one was, and having to try and figure it out on my own during puberty and whatnot was not… ideal.

@Penny Psmith; on mixed pronouns

Can be a bit confusing but you get used to it.

I know it’s not really the same thing, but I once worked in an English-language environment where a guy kept altering which pronouns he used, but it was more conversation-to-conversation (starting the morning by referring to me as “she”, then switching to “he” at the next opportunity). I didn’t even realise he’d been doing it until about a week after I’d left the place, though, so it’s possible he was somehow gauging my reaction and hoping I’d tell him my preference.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Not to mention that sometimes “even kids understand [gross oversimplification]” works better as an argument for teaching something that’s closer to truth. I’m also often astonished that some like to think kids will be confused if you tell them about gender diversity.

It’s silly. We teach kids some variation of “what counts is how you are on the inside” all the time. We teach kids that we’re all human inside so you shouldn’t judge someone by their skin call. We teach kids that a person who isn’t conventionally attractive can be beautiful on the inside. Etc.

So why on earth can’t we tell kids that you can be a boy on the inside even if you look like a girl, a girl on the inside even if you look like a boy, or neither a boy or girl even if you look like one or the other? Sure, gender identity is more complicated than that, but they can handle the above just fine. I hate when adults try to blame their own bigotry on children.

Naglfar
Naglfar
29 days ago

@Masse_mysteria

I’m also often astonished that some like to think kids will be confused if you tell them about gender diversity.

It generally seems like kids understand things like gender diversity better than adults, either because many adults don’t want to or just can’t. Even many cis children are far more accepting and understanding of trans* and non-binary peers than adults are.

It’s the same as how homophobes think that if children learn about gay people they will think they are gay.

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
29 days ago

Re Ohlmann and “put a stop to the assholes who insist on the rule “masculinity alway win” in grammar” – similar issue in Hebrew (although as explained, you can’t just say “let’s cancel gendered forms” because we don’t have much that isn’t gendered). In theory the masculine form is the so-called neutral (because that’s the base form that you add the various suffixes/prefixes to, like the ones that indicate the feminine) so throughout history it’s been the default and seen to include women as well. Like, you can ask someone “how many boys do you have?” and it’s understood that actually means “children” of either gender (while asking “how many girls do you have?” will be seen as referring to only girls). Or you’d address a class, or any group of people, using masculine verbs, unless they’re 100% women (and sometimes not even then).
So, feminists are trying to change those defaults by using the feminine forms as the general “neutral”, because it can be really tiring when the language excludes you like that (although I must admit I still don’t do this very often, it’s easier to just fall into the old habit). And the assholes rage, because how dare they twist language for their political agenda etc. etc.
One of my favourite rebuttals is asking how they talk about nurses and secretaries – because those are two nouns that are almost always used in the feminine, because of historical (sexist) reasons and because they’re still majority female. So far I have not yet run into any of those assholes that would talk about, say, “the nurses[m] room”, and it’s kinda fun to see them squirm when they try to explain why that’s okay but with other nouns it isn’t.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
29 days ago

Also, I have never seen any convincing report of any child being actually troubled by transgender people without the child being told they are monsters, creeps, or both. A bunch of them seem to not understand, just as some seem to not understand that the other sex have different genitals or why adult kiss.

I am not surprised by that, since it match the number of time people have cross dressed to go into the other sex bathrooms and do non consensual stuff.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Ohlmann – In Quebec, I’ve heard “e” as a gender-neutral pronoun, but this was in a university setting and maybe not widespread.

Amusingly, there is a neutral pronoun in french to supplement “il” and “elle”. But it refer to crowds and often imply the speaker is in the aforementioned crowd.

Do you mean “on”? That would make a lot of sense! And it’s already grammatically singular.

When I learned it as a kid, I was confused why a word used like English “we” was singular. I guess it started out like the English pronoun “one.” We can say (on peut dire 😉 ) “one would do this” as in “someone would do this” but it sounds old-fashioned now.

As for other languages, Farsi (Persian) and Twi (a West African language spoken around Ghana) have gender-neutral 3rd-person pronouns, at least according to friends/colleagues who’d sometimes mix up “he” and “she” in English since they weren’t used to making the distinction.

Alan Robertshaw
29 days ago

@ epitome of irresponsibility

but it sounds old-fashioned now.

One must beg to differ.

Naglfar
Naglfar
29 days ago

@Ohlmann
The only such reports I’ve seen were very sketchy ones from transphobes claiming that learning about LGBT people made their children scared. Really, I’ve never seen any objection from children to trans* inclusion unless their parents taught them to. Bigotry is often learned rather than innate.

@Epitome

As for other languages, Farsi (Persian) and Twi (a West African language spoken around Ghana) have gender-neutral 3rd-person pronouns, at least according to friends/colleagues who’d sometimes mix up “he” and “she” in English since they weren’t used to making the distinction.

In much of Africa gender has historically been viewed very differently than in Europe. For instance, among the Igbo people of Nigeria gender roles and expression were much more fluid, and Igbo native speakers often have the same issues relating to gendered pronouns. Much of the world has had non-binary gender historically, it is with European colonialism that much of this went away due to persecution of transgender and GNC people. This is why it especially irks me when TERFs say that trans* women are “colonizing” womanhood: because transphobia is very closely tied to colonialism and white supremacy, as demonstrated by the recent incidents in the UK where white TERFs showed up at a BLM protest and started shouting about JK Rowling.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
29 days ago

@Naglfar, An Autistic Giraffe:
Specifically, the reference was to Mabel from Gravity Falls, who is an incredibly cheerful, silly, and almost always nice little girl, and rather the ‘heart’ of the show. Bill Cipher was a sentient Illuminati pyramid spirit from the same show who goes around possessing people and using them do do things. Hence the line.

It was a very strange show.

@Bookworm in Hijab:
*laughs* I got to hear Kari sing that song in person at Ad Astra a couple of years back. Along with other songs like ‘Take My Sheep’, about playing Settlers of Catan. (With lines like ‘Is this revenge for how I used to gloat at Carcassone?’)

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
29 days ago

Naglfar – Several years ago I overheard a young kid here in Helsinki (apparently a girl, not much older than five) cheerily explain mtf transitioning/sex reassignment surgery to her accompanying adult (older man, probably a grandparent). I didn’t really catch any of the context of that discussion, but it was highly endearing.

She made a mention of buying women’s clothes n’ stuff and the doctor cutting off your “peepee” and replacing it with … (brief pause to find the right word) … “pussy hair!”

Lumipuna
Lumipuna
29 days ago

epitome:

As for other languages, Farsi (Persian) and Twi (a West African language spoken around Ghana) have gender-neutral 3rd-person pronouns, at least according to friends/colleagues who’d sometimes mix up “he” and “she” in English since they weren’t used to making the distinction.

Naglfar:

In much of Africa gender has historically been viewed very differently than in Europe. For instance, among the Igbo people of Nigeria gender roles and expression were much more fluid, and Igbo native speakers often have the same issues relating to gendered pronouns.

I figure it’s one thing to lack gendering in your language, and another to have a fundamentally different understanding of gender. Finnish at least is pretty much “western” in gender construction.

When I was relatively new to speaking English, I was very conscious of using the correct gendering. Then again, I’ve always been a very cautious speaker and easily out of words if I’m at risk of misspeaking. Some other people (especially from other cultural backgrounds) might feel it’s absolutely necessary to keep talking fluently, even if the wording is a hit and miss.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Alan – One must, but what about two? 😛

@Naglfar – Thanks for the article, that was really interesting! I didn’t know that.

It reminded me of how some conservatives say, “Oh, traditional cultures e.g. in Africa have ‘traditional’ gender roles,” but then don’t actually examine the traditions. Sure, many cultures have defined gender roles – e.g. from what I’ve read of the Inuit, they generally have a hunter/gatherer gender distinction – but they don’t always map out to “Western” gender roles and there’s often space for different gender identities.

I’ve always been a very cautious speaker and easily out of words if I’m at risk of misspeaking.

@Lumipuma – I think this might be a personality thing. I’m like that too, being more introverted than extroverted, so while I can read novels in my 2nd language (French), I’m still pretty awkward speaking it. Sometimes I feel as if I didn’t worry so much about being correct I’d be more fluent now. Then again, it can help to be somewhat cautious to make sure you’re understood. In any case, the people I was talking about speak English quite well, they just get tripped up on small things like that.

Naglfar
Naglfar
29 days ago

@Epitome

Sure, many cultures have defined gender roles – e.g. from what I’ve read of the Inuit, they generally have a hunter/gatherer gender distinction – but they don’t always map out to “Western” gender roles and there’s often space for different gender identities.

Many cultures also have support for transgender or non-binary identities, like how many indigenous groups in the Americas view Two-Spirit individuals as sacred.

As for defined hunting and gathering distinctions, these are in practice not clear cut across genders. That comes when groups start settling down. Among hunter-gatherers who need every last bit of food they can find, those who can hunt, hunt, and those who can gather, gather; so male gatherers and female hunters aren’t uncommon. Gender roles get much more enforced when groups settle down and live sedentarios, as this leads to increased distribution of labor.

C.A.Collins
C.A.Collins
29 days ago

@Naglfar:
Maybe that’s what Lenona wants you to think. 😉

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
28 days ago

Speaking of misconceptions about tampons and female anatomy….

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
28 days ago

@epitome of incomprehensibility

One must, but what about two?

One of my favourite lines from Alice Through the Looking-Glass is when, after Alice as told Humpty-Dumpty she’s seven and a half, he replies that it was a most uncomfortable age, and that she should have left off at seven. “One can’t help growing older, you know.” “One can’t, perhaps, but two can. With proper assistance, you might have left off at seven.”

Alice, smart girl that she is, changes the subject. After all, there really is only one way to stop growing older.

Naglfar
Naglfar
28 days ago

@Victorious Parasol
I haven’t watched the video yet and am already shaking my head. Do cis men actually think that menstruation is laying an egg?

@Jenora Feuer

Alice, smart girl that she is, changes the subject. After all, there really is only one way to stop growing older.

Nobody really wants to grow old, but it’s better than the alternative.

Kevin
Kevin
28 days ago

@ Bookworm, Distracted, anyone I’ve missed.

Thank you for the heads – ups.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
28 days ago

@Alan : I’ll take all the goods news I can.

It’s not unrealistic, since the army already flat out refused to help Trump with his coup in Portland.

Krasnaya Koshka
Krasnaya Koshka
28 days ago

Samantha the longtime lurker said exactly what I was thinking! How does someone keep so many old quotes in their mind? (Your whole comment was spot on to my mind, Samantha, but this stood out.)

I get it that everyone here is done with Lenona– and I was done with Lenona with her “lesbians don’t do one night stands” when, yes!, we do, in huge quantities and we generally all remain friends thirty years later IME–but she reminds me of my Oma (great-grandma). So my sentimentality rules here.

My Oma (the very rock of my young life) was mired in “old” thinking. She’d plop some “truth bomb” from some article and we’d have a lively conversation about it. It was bonding for both of us. I, being a dyke at a very early age (14 in 1979) and she being from Germany (72).

I was young and very willing to teach my Oma about being gay. She taught me a lot too. She said some really craptastic things about lesbians but in the end embraced me.

Lenona doesn’t seem to be able to clearly state her own personal views and so relies on quotes and articles.

Samantha

Also what is your angle?

That’s what I want to know too. I am older and really, super tired of teaching people to be nice to everyone not exactly like themselves, but I have reserves if someone deserves them.

I 100% agree with Buttercup Q. Skullpants and weirwoodtreehugger as I have for years.

I was a model child, my brother was not. You can’t magically have well-behaving children. I don’t even notice children acting up because here in Russia, kids are allowed to just run around in restaurants. Maybe not in “high end” restaurants but in general they are. I don’t even notice them, except when I play with them.

Imagine a couple who have an anniversary and they are so in love and they have kids. They try to get a babysitter and maybe it falls through, so they are “stuck” with their kids.

I am child-free but I have empathy.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
28 days ago

@Naglfar

I am no longer surprised at the misconceptions regarding menstruation. A few years back I read the account of a woman who was an assistant to a (male) state senator, and before they started with their one-on-one meeting, she wanted to duck out, tactfully telling him it was that time of the month. He proceeded to tell her that she needed to manage things more professionally, basically a version of “you should’ve gone earlier.” She explained to him that menstrual flow wasn’t under voluntary control, and if he didn’t excuse her, she was likely to have blood and tissue go through her clothes and onto the upholstery. He was horrified. Nobody had ever told him that menstruating people can’t just “hold it” when it comes to menstrual flow. I WISH. I used to refer to my heavy days as “birthing alien slime babies.”

Naglfar
Naglfar
28 days ago

@VP
That reminds me a bit of a story from ObGyn Jen Gunter, where she had to call a state senator to ask about an abortion statute (she had a patient at high risk of kidney failure who needed an abortion late in the pregnancy) only to find that the male state senator was completely clueless about how uteruses work and didn’t actually know what the law he signed meant.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
26 days ago

@Alan

Belated, but I feel like the poll numbers for 2016 vs 2020 say everything one needs to know about misogyny in the military.

When Clinton first ran for President back in 2008, I was terrified that she’d get murdered by her own Secret Service bodyguards a la Indira Gandhi. When I voted for Warren this year I didn’t have such fears for her, but I wonder now if I should have.

Citerior Motive
Citerior Motive
23 days ago

In the discussion of children’s reactions to trans people, I think it’s important to recognize that ‘children’ and ‘trans people’ are not discrete groups—children can, in fact, be transgender.

This makes letting children know that being trans is a possibility all the more important.

Last edited 23 days ago by Citerior Motive