Women lure men into marriage with baked goods, MGTOW Redditors warn

@Lenona

There are stereotypes and stereotypes. Some are only 5% true and others are 80% true. If what I mentioned has changed tremendously over the last two decades, or so, then of course I was wrong. But I would consider it very foolish to pretend the gulf between the two sets of stereotypes doesn’t exist.

You offered these stereotypes as fact. Just apologize, don’t keep trying to defend it.

In my experience, job hunting involves quite a lot of “doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results”. I seem to recall there being another name for that …

Perhaps let’s not say or imply people who can’t find a job are lazy? At least not until the economy improves to at least, say, 1990s levels.

@Lenona

I don’t understand why I have to spell everything out, but there’s obviously a big difference between young adults who live with their parents and who DO look for work every day – and young adults who refuse even to TRY.

You do realize the latter usually start out as the former, and get there by being rejected for job after job for years on end… right?

One human interest story about a family in Italy doesn’t actually prove that millennials are more inclined to laziness and don’t look for jobs.

It’s not one family. If you’d read it, you’d see that.

There are hundreds of thousands of similar cases, the lawyer said, adding that one of three divorce claims are related to the financial support of the couple’s adult children.
The court, Gassani said, “has put some limits to avert the always more endless request of financial support also by children in their forties.”

Going to be kind. Why not, it makes a change, right? Besides, my trolldar sucks – it were made by Lucas – and I’m mostly convinced you’re just set in your ways of thinking.

Some are only 5% true and others are 80% true. If what I mentioned has changed tremendously over the last two decades, or so, then of course I was wrong.

And some were “80% true” (as in widely believed) a century or so ago for no bloody reason. Yet they still linger on, like stinking corpses, because the familiar is far more comforting than the truth when the truth requires you to reassess and rebuild a part of yourself you’ve maybe had with you since childhood.

Stereotypes exist for the comfort of the mentally complacent. To borrow a phrase from you, when you’re thinking on these kids (other people’s kids, to boot) too lazy to look for work … ” ever heard of giving people the benefit of the doubt?”

@ threp

it were made by Lucas

Heh, how to pin someone down to a country and time period in five words.

Related: Did you know Ridley Scott based Weyland-Yutani on the British car industry in the 70’s?

He envisaged Leyland being taken over by one of the Japanese manufacturers.

Which is why the company in Alien has hi-tech machinery and terrible employee relationships.

ever heard of giving people the benefit of the doubt?”

As I made clear earlier regarding large, extended families, of course can I give any young adults the benefit of the doubt.

When the parents DON’T complain about their kids’ presence, that is. After all, the parents know better than I do if they have a reasonable right to demand that their kids find, at least, another place to stay.

@ Lenona,

I’m not sure you’re moving the goalposts so much as not articulating your meaning clearly, so I’ll give it to you that yes, you weren’t talking about traditionally multi-generational families. However, regardless of our backgrounds, if we live in the same country we absorb a lot of the same norms. So, although in my community it’s normal for kids to live with their parents well into adulthood, we are still influenced by, and judged according to, the dominant-culture’s narrative saying that this is not ok. We still go to college/university where our fellow students consider it weird or immature for us to live at home; we still work with colleagues who make fun of it.

I can only imagine how much more this must hurt for those who, culturally, do not come from backgrounds where living at home into adulthood is accepted. The stigma and judgement they face…

Your intentions may have been good; I don’t have any personal reasons to believe otherwise. But perpetuating these harmful stereotypes about adult-children-at-home can only lead to harm for many people. So why repeat them?

Argh, I am a slow typist! Three (? at least?) comments in the time it took me to write that!

There are stereotypes and stereotypes. Some are only 5% true and others are 80% true. If what I mentioned has changed tremendously over the last two decades, or so, then of course I was wrong.

Or in the case of gay men loving one night stands as a matter of course, and lesbians not loving them as a matter of course, 0% true, and has been for decades.

Stereotyping entire groups of other people is always going to be problematic. Lesbians and gay men are diverse, the very act of stereotyping them removes their humanity. Stop doing that. I don’t think that you are a bigoted or a bad person, but I do think that you need to listen more, and talk less when you get pushback. You have some limited experiences, and those lead you to make faulty generalizations.

I used to tangle with a few MRAs (at now-defunct forums) just to make them mad.

Cool. You seem to have internalized some of their shit then. The association between feminism and judges awarding alimony seems to be mostly a bugaboo of MRAs. Which is why I wondered exactly where you picked it up, since it’s weird for a feminist to talk this way.

“then chances are more and more young women would start saying “we don’t want our husbands, brothers and sons to be hampered by alimony payments to THEIR exes – it’s time for alimony to go.” But, we’ll have to wait and see.”

Uh, why exactly should women care about their husbands, brothers, and sons paying alimony? The “hampering” of their lives/finances isn’t the alimony, the “hampering” is the dissolution of the financial side of a romantic relationship. Co-habiting and married couples are basically business partners, dissolving that has financial consequences, just like dissolving a business through a bankruptcy would have financial consequences. Think of a brother, son, or husband going through a bankruptcy because of a failed buisness adventure. Sure you wouldn’t wish this experience on them, but you prolly wouldn’t view them as a victim of consequences out of their control either.

Alimony has one sole purpose- so that the full cost of the dissolution of the relationship is shared, and is not shouldered by one person. It’s an equalizer, not a punitive measure. Imo the real problem men have with alimony isn’t that men can’t afford to pay it, it’s that men view losing financial control to a judge as emasculating. Money is power in our society, and nothing is as disempowering as having to start counting pennies because you’re involuntarily sharing the costs of a breakup.

We still go to college/university where our fellow students consider it weird or immature for us to live at home; we still work with colleagues who make fun of it.

And personal remarks (or sneering looks) will always be rude. No argument there. I have no qualms about calling people out that way. Example – when someone at work asked me how old I was, I said “don’t get PERSONAL! You don’t see me asking YOU how old you are, do you?” (Not in a really hostile tone of voice, you understand.)

I never understand why any woman lies about her age to a nosy person who has no business asking that question. What’s wrong with a very cold stare – and silence – if she doesn’t want to say what I said?

If people suspect they’re being judged behind their backs for their loving, centuries-old family traditions, maybe they could try casually dropping anecdotes about how well such-and-such works for them, without accusing anyone.

And regarding “why repeat them,” all I was trying to do was point out that those parents who DO want one kid – or all of them – to leave, often simply didn’t communicate that more firmly, years in advance. Families with inconsistent internal values like that exist, after all, and they deserve to be discussed, since inconsistency WITHIN the family can be emotionally hurtful. (There’s even a comic strip about such a family – “Dustin” – where the jobs clearly exist but the parents are too wimpy to demand that Dustin hold down jobs when he gets them, even though they clearly want him out of the house. If that strip was offensive to any large portion of society, it would have been terminated by now. That suggests that even real-life parents who WANT their kids to leave but, like Dustin’s parents, are too wimpy, are too embarrassed to admit it.)

@Lenona

all I was trying to do was point out that those parents who DO want one kid – or all of them – to leave, often simply didn’t communicate that more firmly, years in advance.

That’s not what you said originally.

If people suspect they’re being judged behind their backs for their loving, centuries-old family traditions, maybe they could try casually dropping anecdotes about how well such-and-such works for them, without accusing anyone.

And if people have extremely generalizing statements and tired stereotypes, maybe they could try keeping that to themselves.

That suggests that even real-life parents who WANT their kids to leave but, like Dustin’s parents, are too wimpy, are too embarrassed to admit it.)

Or that it’s none of your business how other people structure families and have living arrangements.

I love baking as a hobby, especially for friends’ birthdays and if it’s keeping these men getting triggered over women away, I’ll definitely continue lol

Also

This guy is on mgtow yet

my wife

And recently I read an account of how these guys still actively date and have sex with women. Yet they come home, log on and rant about women online. It’s just hilarious. They can’t leave women alone or leave women out their mouths for the life of them.

@Lenona,

I’m not sure where to begin with your last comment. It seems like you’re suggesting that if Person A says something offensive to Person B, then it’s incumbent on Person B to find a pleasant, non-confrontational, smoothing-things-over way to rebut it. “Casually dropping anecdotes”, for example, though never in a “hostile tone of voice”, and being very sure to avoid “accusing anyone”.

I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt that you are, at base, a well-meaning person. And to be honest, it’s late and I’m really done with rehashing this particular topic. So I’ll just end with this: I am so incredibly tired of well-meaning people urging politeness in the face of stereotypes and rudeness (and worse, of course). If you don’t understand why I might be tired of this — why a lot of people are tired of this — you have some learning to do.

I moved out of my apartment and into my parents’ upstairs bedroom for 10 years to save money. I’m as Western as they come. Fuck you, Lenora, if you have a problem with that. “I’m okay with it if it’s your culture,” is bullshit; there is nothing wrong, whatsoever, with living with family at any age, in any culture, anywhere. I’m not interested in being judged by you; you’re not qualified to do it.

If people suspect they’re being judged behind their backs for their loving, centuries-old family traditions, maybe they could try casually dropping anecdotes about how well such-and-such works for them, without accusing anyone.

Or maybe I can just say “Fuck you, Lenora,” and be done with it. I don’t feel a need to tiptoe around your precious feelings and make you feel comfortable about your stupidity.

I never understand why any woman lies about her age to a nosy person who has no business asking that question. What’s wrong with a very cold stare – and silence – if she doesn’t want to say what I said?

I don’t understand why you are ashamed of your age.

@Lenona

You lost the benefit of the doubt when you went through a creepy obsessives rant about teenagers sex lives you creep.

It’s not one family. If you’d read it, you’d see that.

There are hundreds of thousands of similar cases, the lawyer said, adding that one of three divorce claims are related to the financial support of the couple’s adult children.
The court, Gassani said, “has put some limits to avert the always more endless request of financial support also by children in their forties.”

Fine, I didn’t read it, but it’s fairly well known that the youth unemployment level in Italy is high.

From the Wikipedia entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_unemployment_in_Italy

Youth unemployment in Italy is quantified by many measures. According to the World Bank, the youth unemployment rate is 34.726% as of September 27, 2018.[6] Throughout Italy’s history of tracking youth unemployment (1983 to 2018), the average percentage has been 30%

So, not just millennials.

Jobs for young Italians are in great demand in Italy, with certain financial positions receiving 85,000 applications and accepting only 30 candidates.[14] Certain Italian hospital positions have received 7,000 applications and accepted only 10 candidates.[14] These examples of limited employment positions are representative of the day-to-day conditions that young Italians face when searching for employment.

So, not due to laziness.

I’m admittedly not any kind of expert on the Italian economy, but there’s pretty clearly a long term structural issue with it being very difficult for job seekers to get their foot in the door.

@Lenona

Here is the thing and i know your going to hate this cause your a weirdo who has to be involved in other peoples personal business like some overly creepy home owners association freak, but i fully expect my husband to take care of me. It’s one of the reasons i married him. It was in his vows to me. There is going to be a time when I’m probably almost completely dependent on him, at least for a learning curve.

See I have sever Macular degeneration. Which means i am slowly going blind. Sure I can see fine now with my glasses, but it gets worse ever year and there will probably be a learning curve once i lose my visions since I’m used to having it all my life. My husband knows this. He fully signed up for a partner that is going to slowly be disabled.

I really think it’s no ones business but the people in a relationship what they do. Even if that means the husband supports the wife which you seem to really hate. So you can get some big owl middle fingers from me, shove it up your ass, get drunk near some railroads while you rant to some kids doing it in a fogged up car that their hearts are going to get broken and it will be the worst fucking thing on the planet.

(i know this seems harsh but Lenona rubs me a very wrong way)

It’s pretty notable that despite knowing circa a dozen of youngster who aren’t working, exactly 0 even remotely look like the thesis of Lenona. There’s no youngster deliberately trying to not get a job and living off their parent

It’s a case of a stereotype being exactly 0% right. It seem like it could happen, but it don’t. Everyone want to get out of his parents it seem, if they can.

Also, I actually know italian peoples. Quite a lot of them because apparently France is where a lot of Italian go to try to find a job. Once again, your idea that italians coddle their children is so wrong it’s offensive.

Lenona, will you please admit you are entirely, unabatedly wrong ? That won’t hurt anything but your ego, and that may start you on the path of grounding your arguments and belief in actual reality.

It seems that much like the thread about teens’ sex lives, Lenona has stopped responding. She’ll probably show up later to do the same thing in another thread.

Originally I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but it’s getting harder and harder now that she keeps doubling down on stereotypes and repeatedly moving the goalposts with “you know what I meant.”

Eh, she likely will. Or maybe she’s asleep – time zones are a thing. I will keep responding when I’m bored though – although I strongly doubt we can pull her into the 21st Century, the 20th isn’t beyond the bounds of possibility. 😛

I’ll say her constant references to Italians is a little less persuasive to me than it might otherwise be – I married into a very extensive Italian family.

(And loud. My GOD, they’re loud! Don’t think they actually need the phone to talk to us in London from Rome. So that’s a stereotype as is still accurate. 🙂 )

@PoM,

I moved out of my apartment and into my parents’ upstairs bedroom for 10 years to save money.

You know, I think that it would be so good for so many people if we accepted this as common across a variety of cultures. It doesn’t have to be a “traditional thing” to make it ok. Strong bonds across generations are great and so beneficial for everyone involved.

Our parents won’t be around forever. If we get to spend more time with them, and develop an understanding of them when we are adults ourselves, that’s actually awesome.

* obviously some people are in situations where this wouldn’t work out well; that’s different.

To quote Tom Allen (a comedian here):

“I live in a houseshare with a lovely couple; or as I like to call them, ‘mum and dad’.”

I haven’t read the funnies in a long time, so i wasn’t sure which comic ‘Dustin’ is. I googled it, found the wiki article, and it is a SCREAM.

This is most of the article, describing the characters. I recommend @Lenona reads *this* description, so she can see that perhaps it is still around because people interpret it like this, instead. The wiki editor is FIRMLY on Dustin’s side.

Dustin Kudlick, the titular character of the comic strip. A 23-year-old college graduate who has failed to find regular employment in the current economy after graduating and thus moved back home to live with his parents. He is constantly trapped in a cycle of dead-end temp jobs and grueling manual labor, frequently shown putting in long hours at a car wash or asking his supervisor at the temp agency for more career-enhancing assignments that might help him break out of the cycle of wage slavery. He also deals with trouble in developing relationships with women, and is a budding inventor. Despite his dysfunctional family atmosphere, Dustin remains stoic, a heroic everyman and inspiration to the reader, as he endures and strives, trying to find financial stability, a sense of vocation, acceptance from his family, and even happiness itself.

Ed Kudlick, Dustin’s father, is an angry, bitter lawyer who despises Dustin’s apparent laziness. Ed is never supportive in any way, and always seeks to crush Dustin’s attempts to find meaning and useful employment, ceaselessly mocking his son and putting him down; the only thing they have in common is their love of golf.

Helen Kudlick, Dustin’s mother, is a radio advice talk-show host of “Here’s Helen,” who occasionally endures one airheaded marijuana-advocate caller named Carl with some of his crazy questions. Always keeping faith that her son will do well eventually, even though she does have a shopaholic problem, especially over shoes.

Megan Kudlick, Dustin’s teenaged sister, seven years younger than her brother, also resides in the house. A bit of an overachiever, she tends to follow their father’s example in insulting and undercutting Dustin at every possible turn, showing how poor parenting can poison the next generation as well. But at times they do share moments of true sibling bonding, and she often encourages him to keep trying.

Simone Fontenot, the salty owner of TurboTemps, a one-woman employment agency. Simone provides Dustin with temporary job assignments and unending criticism, sarcasm and almost always mispronounces his last name.

The rest of this is @Lenona.

Re: women being ashamed of the age – that’s a misogynistic thing, i hate to tell you. It’s because older women have no value, because the only value a woman has in this society is her youth, her beauty, and her virginity.

Older/old women have experience, and that isn’t valued like it is with old men. (Ageism does catch men as well!! For sure! But not like it catches women.)

Men aren’t often asked their age, while women often are.

Though, as i get older, i see this happening as millenials are aging and talking to their much younger coworkers about things. I usually goes something like “wait, you were born in 1999? I graduated high school in 1999! Omg i’m so old.”

Re: second wave feminism that you’re so fond of –

No. *spritzes you in the face with a water bottle* bad. We’ve moved on. Do some more modern reading. And, like you, i won’t link to anything that would give context.

Re: your quotes –

JUST STOP. They never help you make your point, and (as i said in the last thread), you never link to the source, so we can read it for ourselves.

You strike me as a person who likes to drop quotes in everyday conversation, to support your points. It might help you sound smart IRL, but here it’s just frustrating.

If you can’t link to it, DON’T USE IT.

Re: those damn lazy kids, staying in their parents home when the parents expected them to leave!!!!!!

http://vjmpublishing.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/boomers.jpg

As an elder millenial, i find it fucking hilarious that you’re bellyaching about adults staying with their parents longer. Fuck all the way off with that bullshit. And then further.

My ‘coming of age’ has so far included the dot com bubble bursting, the recession, and a global pandemic that will lead to another recession.

I am lucky enough that i found a job in the field i studied, and that it paid well enough that i could pay off ny student debt, and now can save for retirement.

I know that all the money i’m saving is going to disappear, though. I know, since i don’t have a pension, that i will be working until i die.

I know that, barring a literal million dollars falling on me from the sky, i will never own a home.

And if you are all ‘move to a cheaper area’: no. My work is in the city i live in. While i could decide to WFH permanently, i hate doing it. I am basically trapped in this city that i can only afford because i got here 10 years ago, and rented my current place 7ish years ago.

What the HELL do you think young people should do, now? Rent is more than anyone unemployed or under employed can afford, we’re in a pamdemic so most of the underpaying jobs aren’t hiring, and also *it isn’t safe to be out right now*.

Re: how do i blockquote – if we needed any proof that you don’t actually read all the threads… i already told you this (end of an admittedly long comment), in the last thread.

Kupo also posted how to do it, in a comment that was short and to the point.

I know you figured it out, this was just frustrating to see.

Re: benefit of the doubt – ELL OH ELL

Maybe when you address the harmful stereotypes you presented AS TRUTH in your first post, we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

And i quote:

As I understand it, one-night stands are appealing and at least somewhat Mutually Beneficial to many gay male adults. Not so with adult lesbians, as a rule. Also, just because an ADULT female shouldn’t expect a phone call after a one-night stand, that doesn’t mean that any teen boy can – or should – expect any teen girl to LIKE the idea of a one-night stand in the first place. (A “summer romance,” maybe, but that’s a different story.)

Also, we are actually giving you the benefit of the doubt, here. How many people have said ‘i don’t think you’re a troll’??? If we weren’t giving it to you, people would be batting you around as if you were a troll, instead of talking to you as if you came here in good faith, and might learn something.

If you mean: “please assume i am a good person!” – no.

See the quote above for why i assume you are, at best, someone who took some courses in college in the 70s and stopped learning after them. At worst, you’re just here to say things that are so blatantly wrong that people respond, and you’re laughing at winding us all up.

The second one is a definition of a troll.

The first one almost is as well, since if you come here presenting yourself as open to learning and discussion, but refusing to listen or learn… you’re also effectively trolling.

Annnnd /end. XD i just had to share the character descriptions of that comic, which are so hilariously against what Lenona said!!!!

Dear Lenona:

STOP. DIGGING.

@Rhuu
I hadn’t heard of Dustin before, but reading that description I empathize much more with him than his father. I’d imagine the reader is supposed to empathize with Dustin.

They never help you make your point, and (as i said in the last thread), you never link to the source, so we can read it for ourselves.

Lenona also never explains why those sources support her argument. Any English teacher will tell you that you need to have an interpretation for your evidence, you can’t just throw evidence at your audience and expect them to understand your point. I’m not saying anyone has to write a research paper, in fact it’s better if people don’t, but just throwing vaguely cited quotes isn’t helpful. If someone wants to cite supporting evidence, they should summarize it and link the original source rather than posting long, largely irrelevant quotes. There used to be something in the Comments Policy about this, but I think it got removed.

Rent is more than anyone unemployed or under employed can afford, we’re in a pamdemic so most of the underpaying jobs aren’t hiring, and also *it isn’t safe to be out right now*.

In addition, for many, paying rent makes it impossible to put down a deposit on a house, as people don’t have enough at any one time and can’t save it because they need to pay rent, so people end up paying more for rent than they would if they could buy, but have no choice.

@ Rhuu,

Thanks for the link! I found the official site for the comics — they’re great!

@ Naglfar –

I’d also imagine that the reader is supposed to empathise with Dustin, since he’s the titular character of the strip! XD

Re: quotes – interpreting them makes sense! I did that with the long dustin quote, and didn’t think about it. I’ll have to think about that point, so i make sure my links support my points. Hm.

Re: rent – and the down payments are SO MUCH. I was talking with some friends about how hard it can be to save up first, last, and any damage deposits necessary for rent, while still paying your current rent! Saving up for a house is so much worse. Especially for a single person.

@ Bookworm in hijab – you are as welcome as the flowers in spring. 🙂

@Rhuu

interpreting them makes sense! I did that with the long dustin quote, and didn’t think about it. I’ll have to think about that point, so i make sure my links support my points. Hm.

I wasn’t trying to call you out, I was referring to Lenona. You seem to be doing fine on that front, so don’t worry. In your context it seems fine.

I just checked out the comics and I concur with Bookworm above; they’re good.

@ Rhuu, Naglfar, and whoever might find it interesting, Barbara Ehrenreich’s books “Nickel and Dimed” and “Bait and Switch” are good reads about the impact of capitalism generally and the American economy specifically on people’s abilities to find and hold jobs. Your lived experiences have certainly given you full awareness of the info that she presents, but you might enjoy her way of laying it all out. IIRC she also comments on ageism and women’s employment prospects.

Also @Rhuu: 😄🌻🌼🌺

@Rhuu to add to your point about moving to a cheaper area, any such advice (or move where there are more jobs) is appliable only to middle/high class people, even if it’s not immediatly apparent.

Move out of where you have your root mean losing quite a bit of social safety net, along with your friends and connections. That’s costly and possibly dangerous depending on how often you need to rely on that.

And there’s also the problem that you need to have quite a bit of reserves to move, even if we suppose that it work out to more money later. It’s the Terry Pratchet point about how being poor is so expensive : a lot of financially wise decisions are out of reach if you don’t already have enough saving to enact them.

In addition to that, a lot of people badly botch their estimations on how moving would impact their living costs, at least in France. Typically, in France, Paris have food and commodities more expensive than the rest of the country. Except you also get paid more for most job, which cancel that. Cheap lodging often is far from public transportation, so you suddenly need a car ; and between gas, insurance, and repairs, cars are a LOT more expensive than they seem.

All that to say that moving to pay less rent or to find jobs is a risky, tricky endeavors that probably should only be suggested to people with a comfortable monetary cushions and/or a social net on their destination.

@Rhuu

“Kupo also posted how to do it, in a comment that was short and to the point.”

To be fair, Kupo also did some refering to the ‘tags’ in her explanation. I can understand how someone would be confused by kupo’s explanation, and then forget what she said, if they didn’t already know enough about html/computer stuff already.

Re: those damn lazy kids, staying in their parents home when the parents expected them to leave!!!!!!

I think there is something to be said for boomers, who are financially vulnerable, to still be financially supporting their kids. But then again, maybe boomers could face up to the fact that the politicians they’ve voted in are eating everyone’s faces, rather than bitching about how young people like lattes and can’t afford apartments.

And yes, I get it. Every 5 dollars you spend on a latte, could be more than 5 dollars if you invested it. Nickels and dimes add up-hence the saying. But at what point are we just stripping out all the pleasure in life? Things have to be a balance, and somethings wrong with the situation if people can’t balance some simple, small pleasures into their life.

My dad used to sometimes give me shit for going out for coffee semi-frequently. He said that I could buy the cheapest instant coffee and make it at home, to save money. Well yes, I said, but I could save even more money by drinking water instead. He agreed. And then I told him that he could do the same, since he was so smart and frugal. He could save money drinking water instead of juice, or better yet, drinking water instead of beer. (Dad’s an alcoholic, gotta hit him where it hurts). And then there was the new fishing pole, and all the gas he spends driving to his favorite fishing spots. And he looked horrified. He has to have something small in life to look forward to. Otherwise why even go on?

Isn’t that something?

“so people end up paying more for rent than they would if they could buy, but have no choice.

Isn’t this just hilarious?

I’m so sick of people telling young people how financially savy it is to rent. Sometimes it is, but then again rents cost more than mortgages in much of the country. You usually end up spending money to fix the place up, and you don’t even get a return on your investment, so at the end of decades, and hundreds of thousands of dollars spent, you are left with nothing.

I guess someone powerful figured out that owning a home is the major source of financial stability for lower and middle class people.

@Ohlmann
And at least in the US, cities and suburbs are basically designed so that if you want to live somewhere cheap you need a car, and if you want to live somewhere where you don’t need a car, it won’t be cheap. So either way it’s not cheap. And then there’s how most US cities have very limited or nonexistent public transport (with some exceptions like New York or Chicago).

@Moogue

maybe boomers could face up to the fact that the politicians they’ve voted in are eating everyone’s faces, rather than bitching about how young people like lattes and can’t afford apartments.

Ah, but that would require self reflection, and it’s easier to just blame millennials for all the problems they inherited.

Every 5 dollars you spend on a latte, could be more than 5 dollars if you invested it.

Probably not in this economy. It might make Jeff Bezos more money, but not most people.

I’m so sick of people telling young people how financially savy it is to rent.

A good general rule is, if someone claims to be giving one-size-fits-all financial advice, they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about.

@naglfar – sorry, i should have been clearer. I meant it is a thing i did unconciously, and it is a good thing for me to be aware of, so i can continue to do it! Basically a “huh! TIL” kinda thing. 🙂

@ Bookworm in hijab – i put holds on both!

@ Rhuu,

How are libraries working where you are? I was gutted when ours imposed the (very sensible and necessary) restrictions; they are slowly easing off and I have such a backlog of books I want to read!

It’s been years since I read her books, and iirc she has some ableist stuff in them, but overall a very well-written, clear exploration. Please tell me what you think!

@ Ohlmann – it’s also such a ridiculous suggestion. “Rent is so high, here.” “Why don’t you move??”

Like, obviously i would move if it was a better outcome. Obviously. That’s not rocket science!! If i am complaining about the rent in the city, just because i could move to some town with 300 people in it in the middle of the prairies and buy a house for like 100k (i’m guessing, i haven’t looked into this) doesn’t mean i’m stupid for staying in the city.

If i moved, i would be WFH in a place where i have no social network at all, and would be even MORE isolated.

I’ve, like most people, have weighed the pros and cons. When i’m finally renovicted or something, i’ll have to decide what i’ll do. :/ :/ :/

@Moogue – i learned that we all need something nice after 2009, when i was robbing peter to pay paul, so i could stay in my (100% illegal) basement apartment that i shared with friends. Family members were also going through that, and a different family member was like “why do they spend money on X, though!!!!!”

The answer, i learned, is because treating yourself once in a while makes life less sad.

@Bookworm in hijab – only some branches are open. We’re in stage 3 in Toronto, so things are slightly under control. I’m actually doing some errands today???? (Looking for a bamboo steamer, so i can try to make dumplings, mmmmm)

Masks are mandatory inside stores amd public buildings, so i feel okay-ish going out.