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By David Futrelle
It’s not a secret that incels are obsessed with underage girls and the allegedly pure joys of teenage sex. Now they seem to have collectively decided that any guy who doesn’t manage to have sex in high school has lost out on something so magical that he is essentially scarred for life; he might as well rope, as they like to put it.
In a recent post on the Incels.co forums, an incel called Personalityinkwell declares, in all caps, that
SEX IN HIGH SCHOOL IS EVERYTHING
everything else is pure cope. …
The only thing that matters is having good genes/good parents so you can be a JB [jailbait] slayer, everything else is GIGACOPE.
Other incels expand on this theme. Mylifeistrash declares that
it’s the harshest pill
that you only got one shot in life and your genetics determined it all
no amount of self-improvement cope or money maxxing will ever make up for your teenage years
AmIjustDreaming agrees,
No amount of money or any other cope can make up for missed teen love. I’m almost 26 and the teenpill still gets to me. While I rotted playing video games, everyone else was having their first kiss, sex, teen love. It will fuck you up forever.
“Only teen love can make up for missed teen love,” laments LOLI BREEDING.
“Highschools need to offer euthanasia at the last day of school,” adds _wifebeater_.
The anger, naturally, stokes the incels’ feelings of entitlement.
“Its such a crime that we never got to fuck prime girls,” complains Ropemaxx.
And it’s not long before they start talking about the age of consent in the Phillipines.
Even aside from the pedophilia, an undercurrent in almost all incel discussions of sex, this is all just bullshit. There’s nothing magical about having sex as a teenager; it’s exciting, to be sure, but it can also be awkward and even a bit embarrassing, as no one knows what they’re doing at first. Sex can actually be a lot better for everyone once both partners have had a little more (or a lot more) experience.
And sex isn’t everything; it’s certainly a pleasant part of life, for those who are into it, but you can live without it. And lots of people do, living through “dry spells” than can last years. Not having sex in high school doesn’t make you special; it doesn’t even make you all that unusual, given that the average age at which Americans have sex for the first time at is 17, with the percentage of high schoolers having sex dropping below 50% in recent years.
That’s right: MOST PEOPLE in high school aren’t having sex.
Yes, it sucks to go through high school dateless. But there are worse things in life. And you have the rest of your life to make up for lost time. Move the fuck on, dudes; stop fixating on something you cannot change.
There are some guys whose lives basically peaked in high school who spend the rest of their lives trying to recapture what they felt the day they scored the winning touchdown. And they won’t shut up about it. Incels are doing something similar, only backwards, fixating on their sexual failures in high school and never shutting up about them. I can’t decide which group is more pathetic, but I know that neither the aging jock or the aging incel is going to be happy until they clear the resentment and self-hatred out of their heads and start living in the present.
And we were grateful!
I didn’t fool around in a graveyard until I was 21 or 22, but I was always a late bloomer. My friends and I did hang around in the cemetery near my house a lot though.
@Catalpa
I’m allosexual and I would say these are definitely comparable. Plus, for a lot of relationships PIV sex is undesirable or not possible. Defining PIV as the be-all, end-all of sex is problematic for many reasons.
@Lenona
It’s also NOT THE VICTIM’S FAULT.
As for the gay man, wouldn’t the right thing to do be to try to address the homophobia in society instead of blaming the man for having sex? It isn’t his fault he was recorded.
Have you met a teenager? Telling them what is taboo just makes them want to do it more, generally.
That’s not heartache, that’s slut-shaming. Everybody knowing that you are having sex is not a problem if slut-shaming is not a thing. It’s only an issue when you’re made to feel bad about the fact that you’ve had sex – that you’re “easy.”
Your own slut-shaming makes this worse, not better.
That’s because he was NOT OUT you twit. He was forcibly outed. Being outed and being slut-shamed are both bad, but bad in completely different ways. Don’t fucking equate them.
But you believe that telling them not to have sex OR ELSE TRAUMATIC HEARTACHE is going to deter them? They can’t be deterred from slut-shaming, so they should be deterred from all sex, and that will somehow work? I am laughing at how stupid this is.
Yeah no. At least not where and when I was a teen.
But even if it were true, so what?
@PoM
It’s Schrödinger’s Shame: they are simultaneously slut-shamed and not slut-shamed until you check.
@Mrs Morley
It wasn’t that way where I grew up either.
@Lenona
I think you need a quote that might help put everything in perspective for you because its something you really need to understand
“Life is pain, anyone who says otherwise is selling something” The princess bride.
Off topic:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/colorado-mom-inspired-qanon-conspiracy-sought-kidnap-her-own-child-n1111711
This is an example of how Q-Anon beliefs is causing active harm. I’m seeing some discussions elsewhere on the internet on whether the legal system is ready to handle cases where widespread beliefs results in a case where the just and moral thing to do would be to commit a crime, provided the beliefs were correct… but they’re not. You know, like if there were actual witches cursing people and ruining their milk and crops, then catching and burning witches would be the right thing to do.
I would say that no kid gloves or special consideration is needed. It provides a ready-made excuse to get off with mild (or occasionally no) punishment for a serious crime… which basically comes down to “they said” / “are they lying”. It can be really hard to prove whether someone really believes what they’re saying.
We saw that with Trans Panic, and before that with Gay Panic, and before that with Black Brute Panic (which is unfortunately still occasionally a thing, particularly in cases of police misconduct), and before that with Jewish Blood Libel (still a thing, sort of, but almost no one takes it seriously). It’s not a great idea.
@Snowberry
What’s also dangerous is how QAnon is gaining more and more public legitimacy because a number of Q believing candidates are likely to be elected to Congress. And the party is doing nothing about it, as expected.
Unfortunately, gay/trans panic are still valid defenses in most states. As for blood libel, it’s not as common for people to straight up say it, but a similar idea is at the root of a lot of modern conspiracy theories (e.g. the adrenochrome conspiracy theories, aspects of QAnon).
QAnon is the logical conclusion of the conservative projection complex. They don’t want to be the bad guys in their own narrative, so they can’t admit that they are doing horrible things. Instead, they claim the Democrats are satanic pedophiles with the Illuminati so they can justify their horrors as in service of defeating the imaginary enemy. They also project all their own crimes onto this enemy, which gives them a clear conscience.
“Have you met a teenager? Telling them what is taboo just makes them want to do it more, generally.”
That’s why I said “indirect.” How many times do I have to say it?
We SHOULD be ordering kids not to bully and exploit others (and to stand up for victims) even when adults aren’t looking. (Too many awful parents just don’t care how cruel their kids are until someone calls the police – and then they often turn into their kids’ lawyers and deny everything.)
We also have to teach teens not to commit crimes out of ignorance, since judges often aren’t sympathetic to that, as I mentioned. (Not to mention drunk driving.)
In all those cases, one has to use blunt language – and threats if necessary. (Like the mother who sold her son’s car when she found alcohol under the seat.)
But I’ve made clear by now, it’s another matter altogether when you don’t want to blame potential victims, of course, but you also don’t want your kid either becoming a crime victim or a bullying victim – if only because adults usually have enough on their plates already without having to deal with avoidable teen soap operas or worse. Then, you have to give them all the INDIRECT information that they just might want, even if they don’t admit to wanting it. That’s why I mentioned coming up with non-gendered reasons to avoid heavy drinking, since no girl wants to hear that it’s ok for men to drink but not women. No, it’s NOT ok for men to get heavily drunk and stagger onto railroad tracks – what about the poor engineer who has to live with that nightmare for years?
I don’t see what’s wrong with giving kids real-life information. It’s all in how you present it.
Most people who get stagger-drunk don’t wander onto railroad tracks. WTF kind of fantasy world do you live in, where the main reason not to get drunk is because you might die on the railroad? Around here, the only people who die on the railroad are the ones chasing the Pope Lick Monster, and they typically are sober.
If you present your anti-drinking message as “it’s dangerous to get drunk because: railroad tracks!” you’re going to be laughed out of the room.
I think that Lenona is straight up anti-sex. Ok any kind, between anyone of any genders in any combination. I just read the whole thread at once and it seems to me like any time someone brings something up the closest they come to responding to it is some variation of “that’s bad too”.
They also seem to have a horrible core on teenagers, thinking that you have to manipulate them rather than actually teach them things.
@lenona
You aren’t giving them real life information though. Like i said I’m sorry if you regretted your highschool sex experience but the majority of teenagers don’t. If they do they get over it because it was highschool. Sex is fun. It feels good. It is pleasurable. It’s as big as deal as the individual person wants to make it and if you want to go “meh not a big deal” then it’s not a big deal. You make this to complicated. You make it sound like sex is like juggling chainsaws on fire while ice skating.
I feel like you want to be like “precious delicate virginal teenage girls, you must hold tight to you purity because the boy beast wants to eat up and leave you a broken heart and destroyed soul because he has “gasp” sexual desire that your pure lady brain does not have and you must fight against his manly sexuality that you do not have.”
I had a long comment but it seems to have been eaten by the mammoth. Maybe it will show up later.
Anyway, I’ll try to summarize it.
Not sure why you think that will be more effective. Teens can see what’s going on.
You haven’t given much information, just waffling about sources that have no relation to this.
The problem is, your panic about one night stands isn’t real information, it’s a judgement you’re trying to pass off as a universal fact.
@Cats in Shiny Hats
I’m also getting a real 2nd Wave vibe in a lot of what they’re saying and who they cite.
@Lainy
Ironically, Lenona being hung up on this reminds me a lot of the incels in the post. Most people do get over it, but apparently some don’t and Lenona is one of them.
Here’s another example of being indirect.
Pre-COVID, you didn’t see cops going on local TV just before a big holiday weekend to tell SOBER drivers to stay off the road, even if some cops might have wanted to say that. Obviously, that would be horribly in fair to law-abiding citizens – and it would embolden lawbreakers. However, the fact that the cops NEED to go on TV to remind people not to drink and drive and that extra cops are needed to watch for drunk drivers is, inevitably, a reminder to sober drivers that they just might want to CHOOSE to stay off the road that night. If possible. (And the cops certainly don’t mind when they do.)
Lainy, I saw the movie, so I already know it’s a comedy. Even if it weren’t, there’s no reason not to treat life like defensive driving. (I’m hardly the first to compare navigating sex to defensive driving.) In other words, if, say, individual women have the right to insist on epidurals to minimize pain – or the right to refuse motherhood altogether, what right does anyone have to say either of THOSE choices is wrong, wimpy, or cowardly, just because both prevent pain and hardship, in different ways? There will be plenty of other hardships to deal with, after all. Why add to them?
Yeah, kids see through the bullshit. We mocked anti-drug PSAs all the time as kids.
My personal favorite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqaocGXy1uM
Even the Ninja Turtles couldn’t save it.
@Lenona
Does this happen elsewhere? I don’t watch local TV, so I don’t know if it’s in my area, but I’ve never heard about it.
Comedies can still make social commentary. That doesn’t invalidate Lainy’s use of the quote.
If you think sex is like driving, you are doing one of those activities very wrong. If you find yourself fingering the ignition or stroking the gear shift, something has gone wrong.
Exactly, those are choices. They can make life better, but there are also possible complications. It’s for the individual to choose. Much like how someone should be allowed to choose if/how they are sexually active.
@Lenona
Okay but sex isn’t painful?? it isn’t traumatic?? it isn’t a hardship?? it feels good? it’s pleasurable??? it’s nice?? are you that dude who was here a while back who tried to convince me all sexual acts were violent even the ones i have with my husband? because you sound like him? does retaining your sperm give you magical powers Leonona? Also your talking to a rape survivor. I know what real trauma is. The shit your talking about it ain’t it hun.
Sex is not a bad thing. I’m sorry you think it is. I’m sorry you think sex leads to pain. For me it leads to orgasms and a nap. And it has since I was like 16 and started fucking. It does now at almost 22 with my husband and the other partners we have. it’s fun. And i will tell my kids that. Sex is fun, have it when you want, tell me I’ll be there to help you, communicate with your partner.
Hell i’ll buy them a fucking dildo if they want to experience piv or pia before having it with a real person if they want. I’m 100% for sex and doing what they want with their bodies, I’m for them not having it if they want to. The last thing sex will be in my house hold is a big thing because I’m pretty sure people like you lead to teen pregnancy and the spread of STIs.
@Lenona
If you treat life like defensive driving you won’t live life. I say this as someone who spent so long trying to minimize all pain and all hardships because “there will be plenty of other hardships” that I couldn’t avoid that I didn’t do anything.
I almost made a list of all the things I didn’t do, then realised that I don’t have time for that.
I have loads of regrets for things I haven’t done. Not very many for the things I have done.
My personal favorite will always be the classic:
There are plenty of reasons not to hide away from risk. If you want to never risk anything, that’s your decision, but don’t generalize your personal choices to the world as if your choices are right for everyone.
The most defensive driving is not to drive at all. It’s no wonder you think nobody should have sex at all if that’s your analogy.
I mean, if you drive a standard there’s a fair amount of pushing in the clutch and moving the gearshift up and down…
@Lainy
I think the guy AVN in the other thread might have been the semen guy, they had a very similar writing style.
Re: drug PSAs
My favorite must be one that John Oliver mocked on his show some years ago, I can’t find it now but it spent a minute lecturing about the dangers of the “pot needle.” If we’re going for longer media, the film Reefer Madness is always a classic.
@Catalpa
And of course, many men can’t find the clutch.
PoM, I gave two other reasons for men to avoid heavy drinking, if you forgot. I’ll give another one – heavy drinking can hurt your overall health after a while, even if it doesn’t always make you fat. (I also knew someone who did pass out and who froze to death.)
“Like i said I’m sorry if you regretted your highschool sex experience but the majority of teenagers don’t.”
On the contrary, I don’t regret anything I did, back then. However, I do look back and shudder over all the particular chances I COULD have taken, both then and in college. I’m very glad I didn’t. Especially anything related to alcohol. Getting drunk on an empty stomach was just completely weird and alien to me, so I wasn’t tempted. (I was also never tempted to ride in a car driven by someone who got a driver’s license the day before – it would have terrified me. What’s wrong with that?)
@Lenona
In the specific comment PoM replied to, you only mentioned railroad tracks.
Are you aware that alcohol and sex are different? And WTF does this have to do with how teens shouldn’t be having one night stands?