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By David Futrelle
It’s not a secret that incels are obsessed with underage girls and the allegedly pure joys of teenage sex. Now they seem to have collectively decided that any guy who doesn’t manage to have sex in high school has lost out on something so magical that he is essentially scarred for life; he might as well rope, as they like to put it.
In a recent post on the Incels.co forums, an incel called Personalityinkwell declares, in all caps, that
SEX IN HIGH SCHOOL IS EVERYTHING
everything else is pure cope. …
The only thing that matters is having good genes/good parents so you can be a JB [jailbait] slayer, everything else is GIGACOPE.
Other incels expand on this theme. Mylifeistrash declares that
it’s the harshest pill
that you only got one shot in life and your genetics determined it all
no amount of self-improvement cope or money maxxing will ever make up for your teenage years
AmIjustDreaming agrees,
No amount of money or any other cope can make up for missed teen love. I’m almost 26 and the teenpill still gets to me. While I rotted playing video games, everyone else was having their first kiss, sex, teen love. It will fuck you up forever.
“Only teen love can make up for missed teen love,” laments LOLI BREEDING.
“Highschools need to offer euthanasia at the last day of school,” adds _wifebeater_.
The anger, naturally, stokes the incels’ feelings of entitlement.
“Its such a crime that we never got to fuck prime girls,” complains Ropemaxx.
And it’s not long before they start talking about the age of consent in the Phillipines.
Even aside from the pedophilia, an undercurrent in almost all incel discussions of sex, this is all just bullshit. There’s nothing magical about having sex as a teenager; it’s exciting, to be sure, but it can also be awkward and even a bit embarrassing, as no one knows what they’re doing at first. Sex can actually be a lot better for everyone once both partners have had a little more (or a lot more) experience.
And sex isn’t everything; it’s certainly a pleasant part of life, for those who are into it, but you can live without it. And lots of people do, living through “dry spells” than can last years. Not having sex in high school doesn’t make you special; it doesn’t even make you all that unusual, given that the average age at which Americans have sex for the first time at is 17, with the percentage of high schoolers having sex dropping below 50% in recent years.
That’s right: MOST PEOPLE in high school aren’t having sex.
Yes, it sucks to go through high school dateless. But there are worse things in life. And you have the rest of your life to make up for lost time. Move the fuck on, dudes; stop fixating on something you cannot change.
There are some guys whose lives basically peaked in high school who spend the rest of their lives trying to recapture what they felt the day they scored the winning touchdown. And they won’t shut up about it. Incels are doing something similar, only backwards, fixating on their sexual failures in high school and never shutting up about them. I can’t decide which group is more pathetic, but I know that neither the aging jock or the aging incel is going to be happy until they clear the resentment and self-hatred out of their heads and start living in the present.
I saw someone post once about how if only it had been the Waldorf rather than the Watergate Hotel, we could at least have the amusement of using “dorf” as a suffix.
@Alan Robertshaw:
Flint? Walkerton? (Not actually funny, I realize)
Long ago, I posed for an artist who liked to tell me anecdotes, including about his student days in 1960s Paris which were less wild than he would have liked. He quipped that he used to go around muttering “Everybody’s getting laid but me.” He still managed to not turn bitter (and by the sound of it, things definitely picked up for him in the 1970s).
@ moon custafer
Someone pointed out that Paris Hilton was one merger and acquisition away from being christened ‘Croydon Travelodge’.
-gate is so last decade. All the hip people use -ghazi. Waterghazi.
@Amtep
Since GamerGhazi was an anti-GamerGate subreddit, would Waterghazi be people opposed to Nixon’s actions at Watergate?
Since I live in Massachusetts, the -gate I hear about the most is DeflateGate. Curious what would happen if I started calling the opposition to the scandal “deflateghazi.” Would probably get some weird looks.
Well said, Lollypop.
And Penny Psmith, maybe I should have clarified that what MIGHT be OK for some adults is often very bad for teens across the board. Sort of like having three drinks every night. There’s a reason that even most Europeans don’t allow 13-year-olds to drink like that. But even so, European parents aren’t obsessed with alcohol the way Americans are – they just SUBTLY encourage a certain restraint for teens that slowly gets loosened as their teenagers get older.
As I understand it, one-night stands are appealing and at least somewhat Mutually Beneficial to many gay male adults. Not so with adult lesbians, as a rule. Also, just because an ADULT female shouldn’t expect a phone call after a one-night stand, that doesn’t mean that any teen boy can – or should – expect any teen girl to LIKE the idea of a one-night stand in the first place. (A “summer romance,” maybe, but that’s a different story.)
My point is that all too often, what boys want is not what girls want, and if it’s wrong for a girl to pressure a boy into intercourse, it’s just as disrespectful for teen boys to get angry and frustrated when teen girls don’t want to treat genital play like shaking hands. For girls, that typically leads to heartache, which is why TEEN boys need to be taught, if not in these exact words, that they can’t expect to have regular one-night stands Before Adulthood, any more than they can expect to land a six-figure job before then. Something like that. (Oh, and if we can understand why it’s not polite to force people to talk about politics or religion in SOCIAL situations, how are propositions that different?)
It’s all about not harassing others – or making them feel exploited. Even though many otherwise civilized adult men honestly don’t understand why they can’t ask their female co-workers for casual sex on their lunch break in the same polite way they might ask them to play tennis, they still often need to be taught they can’t do that.
@Lenona
IIRC in some parts of Europe teens are allowed to drink in school after age 16, so that’s a lot of loosening.
You seem to be pushing a one-size-fits-all model. This doesn’t work for everyone, as I know women who like one night stands and men who don’t. Instead of trying to force everyone into your model, it seems better to explain consent and how to find partners that want the same out of a relationship, as well as safe sex. Are teen boys going to have many one night stands? No, but they also shouldn’t be taught that it’s the worst thing they can do.
There’s also the fact that some people are aro and may not be interested in long term romantic relationships, and they should not be stigmatized for their orientation.
Yes, teen boys should be taught this. This is not the same as telling them that they can’t ever have one night stands. There are places (clubs, apps, etc) where people interested in casual sex can find it, and they should instead be taught to look there and be respectful.
I just want to say this:
The range of what a healthy, consensual, mutually fulfilling and pleasing sexual relationship can be is a really wide range.
@Naglfar
I know. Origin of slut shaming that it took me a long time to get over.
FlintGate? 😉
I feel that “-ghazi” should be reserved for events that (much like their namesake Benghazi) conservatives try extremely hard to read conspiracies into. So, Gamergate is more accurately Gamerghazi (which probably explains why the subreddit is called that), and Pizzagate Pizzaghazi.
I hated high school. I got the whole “she could be kind of hot if she wanted to be but she’s a weirdo” thing because I didn’t understand who I was and how to express what I wanted. I hated what people expected me to wear on some stupid little date with some high school boy. If I actually did like the guy, which was rare, then those stupid little “cute” teenage girl clothes absolutely wasn’t what I wanted to wear to be with him. It would upset me. I thought I was showing love and was proud of what I chose and would not only get called a slut but laughed at by girls. Life was so much better in college and after when I could be around artistic people and learned that what I like sexually is something a lot of other people do also and can be the basis for beautiful art.
Most important is to teach boys that whatever that sexual relationship whether short term or long term or monogamous or not a woman has 100% absolute right all times unconditionally to choose her own partner and how she lives, acts, dresses, talks and everything else doesn’t change that ever.
@ stacey
An early example of that might be how ancient Greeks, especially Athenians, used to refer to Spartan women as pahinomerides.
That means ‘thigh flashers’; because of the short skirts they wore.
@personalpest
Nah. Sometimes a singular, specific incel will get me feeling a sort of remote pity – usually the ones who seem bewildered at the company they’ve fallen into – but mostly they just evoke irritation at the waste of potential, and contempt for their whining and self pity.
I’m … not a terribly sympathetic person. 😛
@Stacey
Yes, definitely that should be a part of educating about consent. Another thing which is important would be to do the reciprocal action for girls and empower them to know that they have a right to do all of what you mentioned.
I would also advise explaining that the same dynamics apply for same gender relationships, that participants can withdraw consent at any point and have the rights above.
@Alan
Oh that is so awesome! You always bring up the coolest stuff!
I love working with the shape of my whole legs and my outfits are naturally leggy looking on purpose. I hate skirts though because they prevent a clean continous line from thigh to hip and waist unless slit high but then even so because it’s a skirt if it’s opaque material even if slit it’s still covering me in the front in a way that messes up the continuity and relationship of the contour of my lower body to my legs.
But that Spartan girl is still way cool.
@Naglfar
Of course. Not meaning to imply just for woman-man relationship at all. It was just something important to me to point out. But thank you for adding that.
@ stacey
Ah, now you’ve reminded me of a recent discussion about that philosophical debate as to whether ‘beauty’ is objective or subjective. All the stuff about golden ratios and the lines of the Parthenon.
My contribution of course totally lowered the tone. Someone raised about clothing with slight flaring (supposedly that’s inherently elegant) and I mentioned how I thought horses with feathered feet looked better. Which they do.
You might find this interesting though.
https://www.moma.org/explore/inside_out/2010/04/06/listening-to-marina-abramovic-art-must-be-beautiful-artist-must-be-beautiful/
@Alan Robertshaw
My 2 cents is that it’s subjective. If it were objective, we would assume that all cultures worldwide would find the same proportions, appearance factors, etc to be attractive, but this isn’t the case. For instance, the people of the Andes believed that stretched skulls were more attractive and practiced skull deformation, while many other cultures would view it as ugly. Or that fashion trends change so often. If there was an objective standard of beauty, presumably fashion wouldn’t change so often.
And that’s before even discussing individual/subgroup preferences. Like how most men don’t find muscular or generally masculine women very attractive, as evidenced by the Abby in TLOU2 meltdowns, but a lot of sapphic women do.
I agree.
There’s probably some slight genetic basis in what is considered beautiful / tasty / fun.
Well, there *are* some genetic basic in taste for extremely basic stuff, like shit being foul smelling and tasting, and extremely bitter stuff being bad. Babies inherently like sugar and dislike a lot of stuff, too.
But outside of that, it’s probable, if not proven, that there is a generic trunk for beauty, heavily customized by each individual. It’s probably way more basic than one might first think ; probably people find inherently having one head and four limb more attractive than 0 head and six limbs ; people probably find eyes good-looking regardless of their culture, that kind of thing. That kind of seriously basic stuff.
I believe it’s somewhat similar to language in that it’s pretty hard to distinguish whatever is innate to all human and what is cultural. As in, all known languages use subjects and verbs, and it’s hard to say if the first language had subjects and verbs and everything developped from it. There could be similar effects on beauty standards, with some dating back to when there were a single african population but still being culturally-transmitted and not genetically transmitted.
Naglfar – I think with all their talk of this pill that pill and all the different types of “cels” we should just start calling them Pillcels!
It’s kind of like all the new flavors of Oreos or Cheerios I see in the grocery store; I just kind of have to marvel at them in a bewildered way.
re: Horses with feathered feet – they are cool looking. When they’re clean (which they are usually not.) But there is something to be said about clean looking and feather-free fetlocks, and that something is: “Sure am glad I don’t need to shampoo my horses’s feet!”
Naglfar said:
“You seem to be pushing a one-size-fits-all model. This doesn’t work for everyone, as I know women who like one night stands and men who don’t. Instead of trying to force everyone into your model, it seems better to explain consent and how to find partners that want the same out of a relationship, as well as safe sex. Are teen boys going to have many one night stands? No, but they also shouldn’t be taught that it’s the worst thing they can do.”
Um, you said “women” and “men.” I was talking about teens.
Of course I didn’t mean that a one-size-fits-all actually “fits” anyone. It’s just that, even though some people MIGHT be mentally mature enough to drive at age 13 – and desperate to do so – it would only cause more problems than it would solve to allow kids that age to take the test. The same would be for allowing 15-year-olds to join the armed forces or get married. In all of those cases, some teens are miserable about not being treated like individuals, but it’s better than the alternative.
In the case of sex, teens are simply not known for their consideration of other people’s feelings, health, or long-term futures. Even when they have to sit through school lectures on drinking and driving, plenty of them are thinking: “the rules don’t apply to me, because I drive BETTER after a few drinks – so when are they going to stop lying to me about that?” I’d be surprised if things were all that different when it comes to sex and understanding why consent is so important – or understanding that they’re not being unfairly “deprived” when they can’t get anyone to consent to intercourse before the end of high school or so.
In other words, it’s true that having a one-night stand isn’t necessarily a cruel thing to do, but when you’re a teen boy, there are too many ways it can go wrong (statutory rape charges if you don’t know the exact laws in your state, diseases, being accused of harassment when the girl doesn’t want what you want, breaking a girl’s heart when consensual sex affects her differently than she expected, nasty gossip started by third parties, pregnancy, etc.). So, while there’s no need to scapegoat one-night stands in so many words, teens clearly need to have all those hazards spelled out.
Yes, it’s kind of a drag for most – not all – teen boys that they can’t do what we used to do in medieval times – that is, get married as soon as the hormones kicked in – but back then, most people never got the chance to learn to read or do anything but back-breaking work, die in childbirth, or die in wartime. Learning to put up with other people’s rules is part of the price of a longer life and a secondary education. (Of course, COVID gives a whole new meaning to that sentence.)
Btw, in Erika Tamar’s 1992 teen novel, The Truth about Kim O’Hara, the protagonist, Andy, is maybe 16 and increasingly frustrated that he and his girlfriend haven’t had sex yet, even though he doesn’t want to get another girlfriend. (The novel is actually about a terrible, non-sexual secret that Kim eventually reveals about her past.) From chapter 13:
Andy: “I’d read in National Geographic about this tribe somewhere – I forget where, South Seas or something. As soon as a boy reaches puberty, they do a manhood ritual dance and then they give him his own private hut. The girls who’ve reached puberty go into his hut and have sex with him. If he especially likes one girl, he can invite her to move in with him and the tribe celebrates with a big feather dance. I could do without all that dancing, but the rest makes a lot more sense than the American way. I mean, you get a full blast of hormones before you’re fifteen, but you’re a pig if you pressure your girlfriend and you can’t get married until you’re twenty-something, so what are you supposed to do in the meantime?”
Again, he doesn’t seem to see the connection between early sex and a loss of real opportunities in adult life – or how the other rejected girls might feel. Want to bet the ADULTS of the tribe label them as “damaged property”?
@Ohlmann
I’m not sure about that, there’s a lot of erotic art that shows people with non-standard numbers of arms and heads.
@Lenona
You said teen BOYS. And what people learn as teens they transfer to adulthood.
There are risks, and teens should be educated on them. There’s a difference between educating on risks and trying to tell everyone they must fit society’s model of monogamous long term relationships, which just doesn’t fit everyone.
That’s definitely not what I was advocating. I was saying that not everyone, of any gender, can work with the typical monogamous cishet relationship style. I am not advocating child marriage.
The “labelling girls as damaged property” is a part of the same patriarchal system that enforces monogamy for everyone, which just doesn’t work for everyone.
But what we should be teaching teens is what they will need to know as an adult. We shouldn’t teach teens unnecessary lessons on how to be teens; I also disagree that “don’t have one night stands” is something teens ought to learn just because they are teens. Girls who sleep around are slut shamed to the degree that just a rumor that a girl is “easy” ruins her reputation whether or not it is actually true. A girl who likes sex should not be shamed. Telling teens not to engage in one night stands would contribute to an already-toxic slut shaming culture.
Not all sex needs to be in service to a LTR to be valid. Not even all girls want it to be. Not every girl gets her heart broken when she doesn’t get a call the next morning but all girls suffer if they are slut shamed. Let’s not contribute to that happening.
Mind you, I’m NOT saying that teens are incapable of having relatively happy sexual relationships that aren’t one-night stands. Old-fashioned liberal Wendy Kaminer (she was born in 1949, graduated from Radcliffe, became a lawyer and is a former ACLU board member) wrote in her ironically titled 1995 essay, True Love Waits (that’s also the title of one of her essay collections) that the trouble with abstinence education is that the message is “abstain until marriage or death, whichever comes first.” Plus, of course, the message that you’ll find the right spouse by age 21 or so.
Excerpt:
“‘What are the benefits of abstinence?’ I asked a group of five women friends who came of age in the 1960s. They were momentarily stumped. Everyone readily recited the evils that abstinence avoided – disease, unwanted pregnancies, and considerable heartache — but we had trouble identifying the goods that it offered, even to young women in their late teens. Self-discipline was rejected; celibacy seemed more like self-denial. Finally someone pointed out that chastity might help some young women achieve autonomy. It allows them to focus on satisfying themselves instead of pleasing their boyfriends. It puts school before sex. But chastity is a path to autonomy only when it is divorced from romance.
“The sexual revolution didn’t eliminate romance but did temper it a little, with experience, and the opportunity for autonomy without abstinence. At least, that’s how it looks in retrospect…”
(snip)