It’s PLEDGE DRIVE time again! If you’re a fan of this blog, please help fund its continued existence by clicking the button below. THANKS!
By David Futrelle
In 2010, men’s rights lawyer Roy Dean Hollander wrote an inflammatory piece for the men’s rights hate site A Voice for Men declaring that men might be forced to take up arms to defeat what he saw as the tyranny of feminism.
Several weeks ago, Den Hollander took his own advice, gunning down the son and husband of a female judge he had tangled with in the past; the son died of his wounds. Several days earlier he killed rival men’s rights attorney Marc Angelucci.
If you thought Den Hollander’s murders would have occasioned some soul searching on the part of the folks at AVFM, you would be dead wrong. Site foinder Paul Elam and others associated with the site offered no apoligies for publishing Den Hollander’s screed (or for a later post by Elam effusively praising him as a “real man”); instead they insisted to anyone who would listen that Den Hollander wasn’t a real men’s rights activist at all and had nothing to do with them.
On Tuesday, AVFM published a post by Gary Costanza referring to Den Hollander’s murder of Angelucci which somehow managed to avoid mentioning both his name and his previous connection to the site, referring to him only as a “demented person.”
Down the memory hole he goes.
Den Hollander – who killed himself shortly after his assault on the judge’s family – was not the only “demented person” in AVFM’s past.
You may be familiar with the name Chris Cantwell – he’s perhaps better known as “the Crying Nazi,” infamous for a teary video he put out after hearing that there was a warrant out for his arrest for several counts of assault at the notorious Unite the Right rally in 2017. Before going full Nazi, you see, Cantwell wrote a number of pieces for AVFM on such topics as IQ, the evils of gun control, and feminists “who demonize men and white people.” When, at the time he was writing for AVFM, I criticized his online harassment of some of his many enemies, Elam wrote a post defending Cantwell and advising me to kill myself.
Cantwell, not only a political activist but quite the gun enthusiast, has been a busy boy in the last several years; his rap sheet is too long and complicated to easily summarize here, but he’s served time for assault and currently sits in jail awaiting trial on charges of threats and extortion against a fellow neo-Nazi. Given his love of guns and his utter lack of impulse control, I think it’s kind of a miracle he hasn’t shot anyone yet.
Over the years, Elam has befriended and published several other men’s rights activists who frankly seem as unhinged as Den Hollander and Cantwell; thankfully none of them have acted out in the same way.
In Constanza’s post today, he urges fellow MRAs to “redouble our efforts” in the wake of Angelucci’s murder.
I would suggest that fans of the site do some serious self-reflection first. Is there a reason their side – and their site — attracts so many “demented” individuals? Perhaps this is not simply bad luck? Perhaps it’s because, to paraphrase a famous comedy routine by Mitchell and Webb, they are the baddies?
H/T — to Twitter’s @TakedownMRAs, who inspired this post.
@Nequam
I have one of those electrified flyswatters! They’re excellent for killing spiders and thousand-leggers. Never used one as a flogger, though, or really on any human ever.
@Redsilkphoenix: I can’t speak about Spain specifically, but in general, the monarch in a constitutional monarchy only holds veto power over parliament (or the country’s equivalent thereof) and a few emergency powers. Parliament does nearly all of the actual country-running. It’s like a president-for-life, but usually with much more limited power than an elected president.
Another military adjacent type here. I’ve known some conservative soldiers, ‘tis true. But I’ve also known a whole hell of a lot of leftist soldiers.
Assuming that Skimmy’s writing is honest and not an attempt at a Poe (is anyone really THAT pompous?), I think Skimmy is very very young and has read entirely too much Jordan Petersen. ( and that answers my question—yes there is at least one person who is that pompous)
Speaking of which, last I heard that guy was in a coma in Russia but that was a while ago. Any news about him recently?
I just read two jokes on Twitter indicating that Peterson has the Rona. have yet to try to verify this.
@Otrame: If you mean Petersen, he’s not in a coma anymore but in quarantine because he and his family came down with that virus thingy which has been going around lately. You know the one.
And now I’m going to bed too. Let’s see if Trolly McWindbag comes back tomorrow.
My first reaction to this article is that David’s exhortations for MRAs to do some self-reflection will, unfortunately, most likely fall on deaf ears.
My second reaction: Doesn’t Skimmingway ever shut up?!!
explains
Poor sods have been deafened by the bullshit.
Does the “banning fire” stuff mean Skimmingway is a fan of Terry Goodkind? Does he think chickens are evil manifest?
Either way, it explains a lot.
PS for those who answered my question about the electric flyswatters, thanks. Can’t say I’m surprised.
@Lainy
Yes, that was his last weird spree.
I see Skimmingway’s crush continues, as he stopped commenting after I went to bed. Insomnia continues, so here I am again.
@Perry
That’s…one thing to put it. He just keeps coming back to get his ass handed to him again and again.
@Snowberry
Probably the same reason he brought up
John Brown: he’s going through the far right’s favorite strawmen to discuss and doesn’t have many contemporary examples of what he wants.
@Surplus
“B-b-but, not that way!” – Skimmingway (an approximation)
I think that like most right wingers, he thinks he’d be the monarch.
Or they die together from COVID that they got while protesting to demand a haircut.
@Redsilkphoenix
DeviantArt allows uploading of text files, I’m not sure if it would be suitable for your purposes but worth a try.
Re: Peterson
I truly wonder if he dies whether his daughter will try to pull a “Weekend at Bernie’s” to keep the donations flowing in. If so, it will be very inept and transparent but his fans will fall for it anyway.
@ pavlov’s house
Yey; welcome back! Missed your input.
Indeed (well, apart from Billy Mitchell).
As you probably know, Pearl Harbour wasn’t even a priority for Japan.
It was actually the sixth item on the War Cabinet’s list of battle priorities and was approved only with the caveat that the raid could go ahead “if it did not divert resources from the primary missions.” Those were of course the attacks on the Philippines and Singapore etc. which began on the same day.
The first drafts of the “day that will live on in infamy” speech referred to the Philippines, as that attack was seen by the US as the important one.
The speech writers only amended to Pearl Harbour because the cabinet thought Hawaii presented as more ‘American’ than the Philippines, and thus worked better for propaganda purposes.
It’s all blah, blah, blah from Skimmingway. He seems to be trying to be funny but he’s tedious.
@ skimmingway
I’m afraid I must disagree.
There have always been lefty soldiers. The New Model Army being an obvious Brit example.
You may also want to check out the 1945 UK general election where the Labour government was elected by a landslide. That is often attributed to ‘the forces vote’ (although that’s an over simplification.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/background/pastelec/ge45.shtml
Even during the war, many in the government were concerned about left leaning tendencies in the military.
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/abram-games-abca-and-fight-post-war-change
Similarly today. Whilst I suspect the US military may skew a bit right wing, there was plenty of Labour support in the UK forces (although that dropped off under Corbyn); but you might expect that based on the demographics a lot of soldiers are recruited from.
@ skimmingway
I’ll keep the vegan propaganda to a minimum.
I’ll just mention that elite Roman legionaries were veggie; they thought meat eating was effete.
There was also that German chap. I’m not putting him up as a role model; but you can’t deny he invaded a lot of places.
But should you wish to learn more; here’s a place to start.
http://dailysikhupdates.com/worlds-greatest-warriors-ever-vegetarian-video/
Wow, skimmingway came back like, literally the moment I went to sleep. I can’t say I missed much – trolly is still just spewing words like intelligence is measured by how many low-quality words one can get on the screen.
I admit I didn’t read much of the troll’s spews, so I guess it’s for the best that I missed the (very off-topic) action.
I agree. Apparently Skimmingway have less wits and more prejudice than a pet rabbit.
He also look like he seriously need some psychatric help. His obsession with manliness and his utter unability to grasp subtilety probably make his life hell. Which in turn mean it’s why he is so obsessed with the parcels and scrap of social status he have, given how unfulfilling the rest of his life seem.
@Alan Robertshaw
The irony.
I’m somewhat curious what he thinks of left wing paramilitary groups like FARC. And then there’s of course the typically fascist contradiction of him insisting the left is too weak to fight but also violent and dangerous at the same time.
@Ohlmann
Are pet rabbits known for prejudice? I’ve never owned one, but I didn’t think they were.
Although I don’t want to internet diagnose, he doesn’t seem very happy. Happy, fulfilled people don’t go to blogs they hate in order to rant in overstylized substance-free text and insult the regulars.
By repeated application of No True Scotsman, you can make “leftists” as weak as you want, while reserving the means of violence for “Communists” or “bureaucrats” or “terrorists” or “enforcers” or “coarse men” or whatever.
@Nagfljar : my experience with pet rabbit is that they *hate* strangers. And anything that go out of the ordinary.
And in case it wasn’t clear enough, needing psychiatric help != being mentally ill. In his case, it mean I don’t believe he will ever be happy without both wanting to change and having a professional help him change.
Wow, I go offline to read, crochet and listen to lectures about the archaeology of religion (it’s a hobby) for a couple of days and miss the Return of Skimmingway. *Sufficiently theatrical and doomladen music follows*
Thanks for the history lessons @Pavlovs House, I had heard some questionable things about the US entry into WW2 but not the rumour that FDR tried to provoke the Japanese. I must look that Heinrich book up for later reading. FDR was an interesting individual, but his New Deal was hardly socialism, let alone communism. State sponsored capitalism, maybe? If it was truly socialism, USians would have universal healthcare as a result.
@Alan, I remember reading a biography or possibly a history, that mentioned a lot of British soldiers in WW2 had never had the vote, and didn’t actually know how to vote, or why they should. There were pamphlets distributed and lectures given in the last days of the campaign through Germany in order to explain the point of voting to people who had never had any choice in their political masters before. It seems so strange to me that my great-grandparents wouldn’t have been allowed to vote until after 1945 (my grandparents were too young), since I try to vote as often as I can.
@Skimmingway, you are verbose, bombastic, ignorant and truly terrible writer. I say this in a professional capacity as a writer and reviewer. Even Dickens, who is known for his convoluted verbiage, and was paid by the word, wouldn’t have published you in his magazine. Your words are empty and you are dull. Bit of advice, read modern texts if you wish to be published. Unless you are using elaborate speeches in an anachronistic manner, for instance as H. G. Parry does in The Unlikely Escape of Uriah Heep when the Uriah Heep character speaks, or muses, then it’s inappropriate to be so long winded. You won’t get published.
@Naglfar (and everyone except the troll, really)
Yeah, exactly! I was thinking along those lines too generally. FARC is a good example but I had in mind the leftist paramilitary groups in 1930s Spain that provided a lot of troops for the Republican/Anti-Fascist coalition in the Spanish Civil War. Their imagery and propaganda often looked like to me that they extolled and adulated the kind of traditional masculinity that the troll thinks his is espousing. And intellectual honesty about the historical record does force one to acknowledge the considerable misogyny present in the international left during that period. So it would make sense I guess that they extolled that traditional idea of manliness (i.e., if their worldview was misogynistic then that idea of gender supports that worldview).
Anti-feminists and right-wingers today sometimes get all excited when they see or hear a scholar talking about those realities as if they have their cherished “gotcha” moment that they think is the marker of intellect.
But as commenters here often point out, it doesn’t work that way. I can and do acknowledge the misogyny of Soviet communism, the violent authoritarianism of Stalin and at the exact same time still be legitimately and honestly glad that the RED ARMY DEFEATED NAZI GERMANY.
(Sorry for the all-caps “yelling” but those last words deserved to be emphasized.)
And when thinking about the anti-Axis coalition more broadly, yes, the leading countries founded their military power of racist exploitation (Great Britain and the British Empire), systematic inequality enshrined in apartheid (the U.S., particularly with Jim Crow in the south but really everywhere), imperialism (British Empire and U.S. relationship with Latin America). But, sorry fascist apologists and narrow-thinking present-day right-wing ideologues, still not “gotcha”.
Nope, the Allies still deserved to win.
(And by the way many of the peoples who were exploited by the governments mentioned above themselves did a lot of the shooting weapons of all calibers at the Fascists)
The issue is reducing privilege and making the world more just for all.
@Ariblester
Yep, that’s fallacy they resort to…good call.
@Alan
Good to see you! Very interesting comments as always! Definitely reading and will reply soon!
Off to the industrious young officer-candidate-scholars now…
@Threp
Thank you for the welcome back! Great to see you too!
@everyone
Great to see everyone and thanks for the welcome!
@Pavlovs House
Conveniently, Skimmingway gave his opinions on the Spanish Civil War in his last flameout. They’re what you’d expect.
The right wing sees everything in black and white, so they get confused when the left can sense nuance in anything. As a result, a lot of their gotchas turn out to prove the opposite of what they wanted to say. There’s a whole Twitter account I follow, Accidentally Left Wing, that documents right winger gotchas that accidentally support leftist ideas.
@Ariblester
Maybe later he’ll use that same fallacy and claim the Nazis were leftist a la Ben Shapiro.
@Naglfar
Thank you, wow…yeah, that flame-out was bizarre. I wasn’t watching the blog then but the guy spews so much it’s hard to sort out the levels of inaccuracy.
When he says this, though, it’s hilarious:
“not once have people of your persuasion been useful in rebuffing anything resembling a nationalist resurgence”
How about…perhaps….the Soviet victory in the Russian Civil War and the founding of the U.S.S.R?
The White side in the war definitely was diverse but there were certainly some nationalists among them.
They lost.
One might also argue that the United Front in China is an example of a very large communist party mobilizing the working class (peasant classes, in that case) and incorporating the nationalists (i.e. KMT and other related parties) and…defeating the Japanese. (And despite the 1945-1949 Chinese Civil War, one might recall that some KMT stayed with the CCP-led coalition. splitting the KMT)
Other “nationalist resurgence” defeated by a mass mobilization of the working classes by a left-wing communist party:
Yugoslavia in World War II. Did the NVOJ (Tito’s Partisans and the Yugoslav Communist Party) just fight the Axis? No. They defeated *at the same time* right-wing Serbian nationalists (who admittedly occasionally did see fit to fight the Axis themselves, sometimes, but not with a convincing level of commitment!) Maybe it’s more accurate to say that the NVOJ didn’t only the Nationalists but outdo them in ability to the majority of the population (even in Serbia) and forged a communist working-class movement….who, again….(this is for you Skimmingway)…..
DEFEATED FASCISTS AND RIGHT-WINGERS