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Now is the time for A Voice for Men to ask: “Are we the baddies?”

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By David Futrelle

In 2010, men’s rights lawyer Roy Dean Hollander wrote an inflammatory piece for the men’s rights hate site A Voice for Men declaring that men might be forced to take up arms to defeat what he saw as the tyranny of feminism.

Several weeks ago, Den Hollander took his own advice, gunning down the son and husband of a female judge he had tangled with in the past; the son died of his wounds. Several days earlier he killed rival men’s rights attorney Marc Angelucci.

If you thought Den Hollander’s murders would have occasioned some soul searching on the part of the folks at AVFM, you would be dead wrong. Site foinder Paul Elam and others associated with the site offered no apoligies for publishing Den Hollander’s screed (or for a later post by Elam effusively praising him as a “real man”); instead they insisted to anyone who would listen that Den Hollander wasn’t a real men’s rights activist at all and had nothing to do with them.

On Tuesday, AVFM published a post by Gary Costanza referring to Den Hollander’s murder of Angelucci which somehow managed to avoid mentioning both his name and his previous connection to the site, referring to him only as a “demented person.”

Down the memory hole he goes.

Den Hollander – who killed himself shortly after his assault on the judge’s family – was not the only “demented person” in AVFM’s past.

You may be familiar with the name Chris Cantwell – he’s perhaps better known as “the Crying Nazi,” infamous for a teary video he put out after hearing that there was a warrant out for his arrest for several counts of assault at the notorious Unite the Right rally in 2017. Before going full Nazi, you see, Cantwell wrote a number of pieces for AVFM on such topics as IQ, the evils of gun control, and feminists “who demonize men and white people.” When, at the time he was writing for AVFM, I criticized his online harassment of some of his many enemies, Elam wrote a post defending Cantwell and advising me to kill myself.

Cantwell, not only a political activist but quite the gun enthusiast, has been a busy boy in the last several years; his rap sheet is too long and complicated to easily summarize here, but he’s served time for assault and currently sits in jail awaiting trial on charges of threats and extortion against a fellow neo-Nazi. Given his love of guns and his utter lack of impulse control, I think it’s kind of a miracle he hasn’t shot anyone yet.

Over the years, Elam has befriended and published several other men’s rights activists who frankly seem as unhinged as Den Hollander and Cantwell; thankfully none of them have acted out in the same way.

In Constanza’s post today, he urges fellow MRAs to “redouble our efforts” in the wake of Angelucci’s murder.

I would suggest that fans of the site do some serious self-reflection first. Is there a reason their side – and their site — attracts so many “demented” individuals? Perhaps this is not simply bad luck? Perhaps it’s because, to paraphrase a famous comedy routine by Mitchell and Webb, they are the baddies?

H/T — to Twitter’s @TakedownMRAs, who inspired this post.

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Lizzie
Lizzie
1 month ago

Skimmingway mentions “manly vim” – my mum used to use Vim ( it’s a scouring powder) to clean the sink. I quite liked seeing him use the word “hag”, you don’t see that much these days. But the Plain English movement does seem to have passed him by.

Mrs Morley
Mrs Morley
1 month ago

I really love Proust, and it’s abundantly clear that skillingway hasn’t a clue what concerned Proust.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Lizzie

Skimmingway mentions “manly vim” – my mum used to use Vim ( it’s a scouring powder)

For me, the phrase conjures images of the Unix text editor Vim. Given that Vim (and Unix in general) has historically been most popular among technology enthusiasts and programmers, and less so in the general public, Skimmingway would probably write it off as for “nerds”.

Judging from his last episode, I’m guessing Skimmingway will be back in a few hours. He usually seems to be active between midnight UTC and 5:00 UTC (8 PM-1 AM EDT/7 PM-12 AM CDT).

Paireon
Paireon
1 month ago

…Wow, I come back to find I’ve missed a silly AnCap/Monarchist git. Sucks to be me I guess…

Also, as someone who lives in a monarchy (Canada’s head of state is still the reigning monarch of the UK BTW), lemme tell you, it ain’t as different as you’d think. And if you actually mean a feudal or absolute monarchy, then… I don’t think you’d be much happier in these, unless you think the average person’s living conditions in North Korea would be nice (although a Muslim petromonarchy would be at least materially better, as long as you’re a Muslim man).

Also, Marcel Proust was actually of Jewish ancestry – would knowing that actually affect the git’s opinion of him? People of his persuasion often are affected by such knowledge.

tim gueguen
1 month ago

It’s amusing to see right wingers try to use the Japanese interment under FDR as a club against the left, when they have advocated similar policies. Of course not all of them think the interment was wrong. Just ask Michelle Malkin.

My late high school history teacher Alvin Cox was an aircraft gunner with the RAF in WW2. He certainly seemed to be a left winger of some type.

The “soyboy” trope is silly. The Japanese have long been consumers of various bean based products such as tofu. It doesn’t seem to have stopped them from waging war on each other, and on other countries during their imperialist periods. The same can be said for the peoples of China.

Something tells me part of skimdude’s reading diet is Ayn Rand. He sounds like the long winded turkeys she was fond of.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
1 month ago

Man, yesterday I had my hands full with work and personal stuff, and I missed the return of skimmingway! His garbage prose reminded me of two of my favorite quotes:

The power of English lies in its ability to move and to persuade and to illumine the majesty of thought. – Parke Godwin

(Notice that Godwin managed to be eloquent without his prose turning purple.)

When speaking of efficiency in English literature, my mind gets a bit Popish:

A little learning is a dangerous thing ;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring :
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

Totally OT: Yesterday I found out that not one but TWO of my old teammates will be my co-workers again! I’d recommended they apply to the new company, and they’ve both been hired! Best of all, I get along with them AND they are both very reliable.

Some Chick in Texas
Some Chick in Texas
1 month ago

Does skimmingway have a correct grip on anything? Also, is this right, it’s ok to use violence against people you think are too left-wing but it isn’t ok to use violence to try to free people from slavery? I get that right? Also, he’s still really tedious.

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
1 month ago

Just finished reading this entire thread and I applaud your patience with that pretentious troll-boy. Unlike his verbal diarrhea most of your responses were a joy to read. Kudos.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 month ago

@Naglfar

I’ve been using vim all morning, so this is naturally what I thought of as well.

Isn’t Unix generally considered like… I hate to phrase it this way, but given the massive preponderance of sausage-festiness in computers… the manliest OS, though? I definitely get the feeling that people who use vim from the command line of unix are considered to have more manly mojo as programmers than people who use IDEs in Windows, for example. There’s a definite sense of hierarchy.

I personally have no preference because it’s always easiest to use whatever you were trained on first, there’s no sense in boasting about it. The only thing I thumb my nose at is people who try to publish high performance papers where the experiments are all done in Python.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Paireon

I come back to find I’ve missed a silly AnCap/Monarchist git.

I’m sure he’ll be back. You live in or near Montreal IIRC, so expect him back around 8 or 9 PM your time zone.

if you actually mean a feudal or absolute monarchy

That’s usually what self professed monarchists want.

@Tim Gueguen

The “soyboy” trope is silly. The Japanese have long been consumers of various bean based products such as tofu. It doesn’t seem to have stopped them from waging war on each other, and on other countries during their imperialist periods.

I do wonder if there is a connection between the “soyboy” stereotype and the stereotype of Asian men as weak.

@Big Titty Demon

Isn’t Unix generally considered like… I hate to phrase it this way, but given the massive preponderance of sausage-festiness in computers… the manliest OS, though?

In my experience Linux is seen as more so due to the open source DIY aspect. Then again, I’m not much in contact with the Linux community so I could be wrong. Plus, IIRC the creator of Linux has multiple accusations of misconduct so of course the dudebro crowd has to rally around him.

I used to use text editors more, but now that there are many IDEs I find those easier to use for most languages. Now I only really use text editors for my older systems or for HTML.

The only thing I thumb my nose at is people who try to publish high performance papers where the experiments are all done in Python.

*shakes head*
Python? I’ve got nothing against Python and it does have its uses, but that is not one of them.

numerobis
numerobis
1 month ago

Naglfar: you should look into SciPy. Python is very commonly used in simulation. It’s fast to write code, and it’s easy to optimize the heck out of certain modules where all the compute time is being spent. Basically all machine learning work is done in Python.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
1 month ago

At least skimmingway has nothing he can say to me. He ran away like he should.

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
1 month ago

He acts like he’s really masculine but I can tell by how he acts that gross creep skimmingway really isn’t that manly (at least by my standards).

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Stacey
He’s probably very insecure about his masculinity. Obviously there’s nothing wrong with being non masculine, but part of how the far right works is by exploiting insecurity. He’s fallen in and thinks this is a way for him to prove his masculinity.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

@Big Titty Demon : while there’s some people that attach manliness to OS just like people that attach manliness to baby gears, in actual practice it have more to do with the kind of software engineering job you do.

If you do system administration, vim and linux are by *far* the easiest tool you can have, because they are everywhere and much more friendly for thoses tasks than windows tools, or even non-command line linux tool.

If you do front-end engineering (layout of pages, user interface, etc), Mac is often used because it work pretty well with the graphic tool. Linux is used a lot too, but not via vim, more via more traditional IDEs.

In the end, practicality tend to win. Turn out rich IDEs can be mightily handy for some task and very cumbersome for other.

The linux community have some rotten part of it. Linus Torvald is someone that should be avoided at all cost. He improved, which mean he is still a massive asshole defying any description, but less so than before. I didn’t hear of sexual misconduct or direct misogyny but A – I may have missed them and B – he didn’t needed to do that to register as a black hole of assholeishness to me.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Ohlmann

If you do front-end engineering (layout of pages, user interface, etc), Mac is often used because it work pretty well with the graphic tool.

I use Macs because it gives me both the graphical/IDE functionality and I can also use Unix command line tools in the Terminal. I also prefer the Macs because they are good for multimedia editing.

Linus Torvald is someone that should be avoided at all cost. He improved, which mean he is still a massive asshole defying any description, but less so than before. I didn’t hear of sexual misconduct or direct misogyny but A – I may have missed them and B – he didn’t needed to do that to register as a black hole of assholeishness to me.

I don’t know what the accusations are, but I remember a few years ago all these random right wing grifters jumped out to defend him against supposedly being “framed by feminists”. A google search just brings up right wing rags.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
1 month ago

As always, I’m amused that skimmingway thinks that people not getting his point or not understanding his writing means that everyone else is stupid, and not that he has failed by not adjusting his communication to suit his audience.

I mean, he’s here to educate us and to impart something important to us, right? He wants us to understand it, right? He knows we’re all dum-dums and that it’s hard to get through to us, right?

But instead of breaking it down to us in terms he could expect us to understand, he flails his, er, eloquence all over the place and then mocks us for not understanding. Truly the mark of an intellectual. Truly a great educator in our midst.

And I know one when I see one, seeing as I was taught something about the basic tenets of Islam by a person who refused to believe what someone with actual muslim family members told them.

Schnookums Von Fancypants, Assailed by Gynocratic Powers
Schnookums Von Fancypants, Assailed by Gynocratic Powers
1 month ago

I’m just amazed to find out that I don’t exist. I joined the US Army at 19 and I was quite leftist at the time (I’ve become even more so as I aged, but that’s a whole ‘nother story)

StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
StaceySmartyPantsTwiceRemoved
1 month ago

@Naglfar

I apologize if it seemed like I was saying there was something wrong with not being masculine or not being a certain gender or expressing gender in some way.

I was just trying to say something similar to what you are I think. I mean like he’s set up this expectation about hard-bodied physically strong men as the ideal for everything. But he sure doesn’t act like the men I know and select to serve me who have those physical attributes and are manly in that way. The same things in them that give them the inner drive to work out and be strong and muscled and ripped are what makes them sweet and able to be what I want in a guy. Those are very select ones though.

Some Chick in Texas
Some Chick in Texas
1 month ago

No lefties in the military? Has he ever talked to anyone ever about anything in person? Cuz…

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

What I am sure that Linus did is emotionaly abusing other linux contributors, cultivating an extremely toxic culture of one-upmanship, and having a quasi-extatic way of insulting and belittling people. He also seem to lack any control over his emotion, especially his wrath. So of course right wing rags would defend him to death : apart from openly hating women and PoC he is pretty much the parangon of toxic masculinity.

Paireon
Paireon
1 month ago

@Naglfar: Ooo, nice, maybe I’ll get to start my vacation by laughing at him along with you folks. Also, I already suspected most European-derived monarchists are like that (whether Russian, Latin-American or anywhere in-between), so I was kinda half-sarcastic, so it’s all good. *thumbs up*

@Ohlmann: Wow, no idea Torvald was such a douche. I didn’t exactly know him besides “dude who kinda created Linux, maybe” (my programming-fu is weak).

OT: Recently suffered from a broken pedestal myself recently, RE: Robert M. Price, noted atheist and scholar on both HP Lovecraft and the historicity of Jesus. I mean, I knew he was right-leaning, but… FUCK, he really went down the rabbit hole in the past five years… I mean, “Atheists for Trump”!? REALLY!?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Stacey

I apologize if it seemed like I was saying there was something wrong with not being masculine or not being a certain gender or expressing gender in some way.

I didn’t think you were saying that, I was just clarifying for my own statement. You’re fine.

@Some Chick in Texas

Has he ever talked to anyone ever about anything in person?

Probably not. The reason right wingers don’t know the first thing about leftists is that they’ve been garnering all their “information” from Chan memes to the point that they think leftists sound like that, then are confused when they don’t.

@Paireon
Regrettably, a lot of “New Atheists” fell down the hard right rabbit hole.

An Impish Pepper
An Impish Pepper
1 month ago

As much as this meathead sounds like a culprit from case 2 of an Ace Attorney game, I do feel like a lot of people are mostly monarchists in practice. Most are not as openly aware of it, but I think a lot of people, especially when they’re younger, think of presidents and prime ministers as temporary rulers who are supposed to be left largely unchecked, with elections being the main check to their power. Based on the civics class I had in high school, civics classes are supposed to get kids to dispose of such a notion. I’ve become more convinced of the idea that modern conservatives are by and large ideological heirs to the monarchists of the times of the French and American revolutions. It explains quite a lot of things.

I think the thing that sticks out to me the most, at least out of the stuff that hasn’t been picked out for mockery already, is the rant about an apocalypse that kills off everyone except the (implied to be cis) manliest of (implied to be cis) men, who will survive and continue civilization. (Given what’s implied) I’m not sure how to imagine such a scenario. Maybe something like this:comment image

Nequam
Nequam
1 month ago

@Paireon: Yeah, that was pretty ghastly.

Dalillama
Dalillama
1 month ago

@An Impish Pepper

I’ve become more convinced of the idea that modern conservatives are by and large ideological heirs to the monarchists of the times of the French and American revolutions. It explains quite a lot of things.

Of course they are. That’s who coined the term in the first place, their intellectual heirs understand that perfectly well. Conservatism is about conserving and strengthening social hierarchies, with an ideal state being one where everybody knows their place and keeps in it under fear of punishment.

Paireon
Paireon
1 month ago

@Nequam – Yeah, the news that he wrote an utterly cringe-worthy intro to a swords-and-sorcery anthology (Flashing Swords 6) he edited that caused many authors to ask to be removed from said anthology was what caught my eyes and revealed to me his sad decline into “Old Man Yells at Tree” territory.

And yes, that intro really is that fucking cringe.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
1 month ago

@An impish Pepper:

(raises hand at the back of the lecture hall): I believe in that kind of apocalypse-as-wish-fulfillment scenario, women aren’t counted as people, but as a resource: the manly-men survivors will naturally “protect” the good-looking ones in exchange for sex.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Moon Custafer

the manly-men survivors will naturally “protect” the good-looking ones in exchange for sex.

This seems to be what a lot of the manosphere thinks, as they are all salivating at the idea of some sort of apocalypse to put women and minorities “in their place.”

A Distracted Medievalist
A Distracted Medievalist
1 month ago

@Naglfar
And I am not the first person to say this, but here we are in some value of apocalypse and the tools to fight it are cleaning, cooking, patience and looking out for the vulnerable.

A Distracted Medievalist
A Distracted Medievalist
1 month ago

Come to think of it, those work for quite a lot of situations.

epitome of incomprehensibility

I haven’t followed the original story in much detail, but out of curiosity I read the whole comment thread.

Apparently skimmingway thinks everyone who comments here is an authoritarian communist…?

On the surface, that seems an odd conclusion to make, but it’s clearly because our prose stylings are nowhere near as luminously eloquent as his! If we only were able to reach his heights of rhetorical mastery, our messages would be as lucid and limpid as a sparkling stream. Alas, even your humble Mme. d’Incompréhensibilité cannot approximate his raw, breathtaking command of the English language (as befits my status as a lowly woman, forsooth).

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 month ago

@Ohlmann, Naglfar

RE: Linus Torvald: iirc (but cannot find the article I’m thinking of about this which frustrates me), he was told that the culture he was fostering and his attitude in particular created an environment particularly unwelcoming to female developers and to maybe cut that shit out so that they’d be made more welcome, and his response was to spew for a screed about how if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen and women weren’t meant to be programmers naturally blah blah blah more delicate naturally and can’t take the pressure yadda yadda he doesn’t care of wussies get hurt, the weak fall prey to the strong, puke barf, more of this. He changed his tune only in like the last year or two, I’m not entirely sure why, but reckon it had to do with the Me Too movement, so if I’m guessing, I would guess there’s something in his past he’s hoping doesn’t come up and he’s trying to reform now as a gesture of goodwill. Buuuuuut he’s kind of still a towering asshole.

Re: DIY nature of Unix: Aren’t there like a gajillion (technical term) companies that put out Unix OS though? As well as all sorts of sysadmin tools for it, e.g. Slurm, Spack, Spark (I didn’t realise how many of these were going to start with S when I started) and so forth?

@numerobis

The problem is it’s fast to write code in Python, but it’s not fast code. :/ People just write code that isn’t fast, even when using tuned C++ libraries wrapped in Python, because all their own contributions are written in Python as well. Then they try to compare it to known fast implementations, but of course it isn’t going to stand up well, because it’s in Python, so they re-implement other algorithms in Python and call it their baseline. You end up with around 25% of HPC submissions having the foundational problem of comparing to self-implemented bad baselines (or no baselines, even worse), just because the people who submitted couldn’t program in a high performance language. It’s an automatic reject from any good conference.

Python has almost no use in HPC. I only have the almost because I’m not omniscient and maybe it feasibly has one somewhere that I never heard of, but I never heard of it. As you say, in machine learning it’s used to wrap many C++ libraries in order to make prototyping easier and it’s popular in data mining and such. But not HPC. Begone, foul demon Python from all HPC and parallel programming!

numerobis
numerobis
1 month ago

The Linus story is he’s an insufferable asshole. To his credit at some point he wrote a statement indicating he realized it and declared he wanted to do better. I haven’t heard as much about him since so I don’t know if anything came of this.

The sexual misconduct is more likely rms, who’s been creepy for decades and also is insufferable. He got resigned from various positions finally just last year but 20 years earlier women I knew, knew to avoid him — and let me know about it (I was not very woke at all, so if I heard about something, it was open knowledge).

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@ A Distracted Medievalist

And I am not the first person to say this, but here we are in some value of apocalypse and the tools to fight it are cleaning, cooking, patience and looking out for the vulnerable.

Exactly. And the right wing can’t do them at all.

@Big Titty Demon

if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen

That would be an interesting choice of words for him to use.

DIY nature of Unix: Aren’t there like a gajillion (technical term) companies that put out Unix OS though? As well as all sorts of sysadmin tools for it, e.g. Slurm, Spack, Spark (I didn’t realise how many of these were going to start with S when I started) and so forth?

I was talking about Linux, which seems to be liked by many programmers because there are a lot of different distros for users depending on what ratio of ease of use to power they want. As for Unix, I’m not really involved with that scene so I can’t say.

@numerobis

The sexual misconduct is more likely rms, who’s been creepy for decades and also is insufferable.

Another annoying aspect is that he and his defenders regularly use his (possibly, he denies it) autistic status as a defense. I’m autistic and have never assaulted anyone, so this frustrates me, as assaulting people is not part of autism.

He resigned from MIT and FSF after he defended Jeffrey Epstein, but he’s still head of GNU project.

numerobis
numerobis
1 month ago

Big Titty Demon: You don’t put Python in the inner loop, so its performance doesn’t really matter. Essentially all the computation is in native libraries; the scripting languages are just there to glue bits together.

It’s been a while but last I did HPC it was in ruby (with custom wrappers around PETSc because we were too cool for Python) but same thing. The ruby code was about parsing command-line arguments, creating some appropriately-named directories, starting up the system, then check in once per timestep and direct a checkpoint or output the final results or whatever.

Unless you count sending jobs to a render farm as HPC. That was much more recent. I used a mix of Python and .bat files.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 month ago

@numerobis

No I was talking about supercomputer parallel algorithms research/academic publishing. In this, all computations and loops matter in the search for fastest libraries/routines/algorithms. I guarantee it’s an instant reject from the committee of HPC conferences to submit any code written in Python that claims the object is to be high performance, I’ve reviewed 3 sets of submissions with a committee member and it’s the one rule I can generalize from the experience (well, besides “copyediting your paper before submission is a good idea” and maybe “test distributed systems on a machine bigger than a laptop”).

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
1 month ago

@Naglfar

Programmers liking Linux is less a function of the proliferation of distros, more a function of the major ones being super modular and easy to extend… At least, until you need a dependency that’s not in your distro’s or your language’s package manager, then it becomes a pain just like in every other OS. Also Mac has stuff like Homebrew and Windows has Chocolatey now, so IDK how much that’s still an advantage.

Anyway the proliferation of distros I think is more of a curse than a blessing at this point, it’s massive duplication of effort and a lot of the distros are terribly maintained. Like, irresponsibly terribly. I would never recommend Linux Mint to anyone after the garbage they’ve done, and just last month or so Manjaro had a kerfuffle among the maintainers about alleged misappropriation of funds, and… yeah, it’s all terrible all the way down. No matter what OS you pick it’s ultimately maintained by far too many bros.

I still use Linux myself because it annoys me the least of all available options. But, also I’m not a real programmer. 😉

@Ohlmann, @Naglfar, @Big Titty Demon

Re Linus himself, let me put it this way: every time I wanted to get involved in kernel programming, his macho attitude was the factor pushing me away. I’d take one look at the stuff he’d say in the LKML, and how he treated other developers and distro maintainers, and be like: “Fuck no, I got enough of that treatment in high school.” Dude is basically the original brogrammer, and also his attitude towards infosec is part of why kernel gets so many vulnerabilities, and yeah I kind of wish he’d step down already.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Cyborgette
Thank you for adding the context. My experience with Linux is very limited, I used to use Windows but switched to Macs a few years ago and haven’t really explored alternative OSes like Linux.

I did buy the Raspberry Pi when it first came out because I was curious, but the original version was lacking power and was mostly a novelty or for projects, and I didn’t really have any use for it. It ran a scaled down version of Debian that wasn’t very practical.

Paireon
Paireon
1 month ago

…Aaaannd now it’s a bunch of programming jargon I don’t understand LOL. And the git still hasn’t shown himself, sadly. Oh well, I can wait a bit, I’m on vacation now.

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

@Paireon
Well, since this is his second flameout (he started out with a drive by, then returned a few weeks later for the raw meat meltdown), I’d say a third is in the cards some time soon.

Snowberry
Snowberry
1 month ago

I’ve been checking occasionally all day, but I’m not interested in the tech talk and Skimmy hasn’t showed, so I’ve been keeping quiet.

Chris O
Chris O
1 month ago

@Snowberry: He’ll be back. Count on it. He’s like a World War II Kriegsmarine U-boat– every time you think he’s gone, he resurfaces for another attack.

Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
Threp (formerly Shadowplay)
1 month ago

Eh, I kinda enjoy watching people reach nerdvana. 🙂

Enthusiasm’s always fun.

Big Titty Demon
Big Titty Demon
1 month ago

@Cyborgette

Yup, 100% with you on that. Ain’t got the time for that noise.

@ Naglfar, general skimmingway discussion

I’ve not yet understood why he only distorts Naglfar’s name into Naglfart. Is it that he can’t think of another “clever” distortion for anyone else, so he gave up? Or he knows there was another troll that did that so he’s trying to be more original? Or he just has a particular spite for Naglfar?

I’ve also not understood why he’s against John Brown when one of his main, er, points, is “Those to whom evil is done often commit evil in turn.” Like the slaves John Brown gave implements of war to, no evil was ever done to them, eh, amirite?

Naglfar
Naglfar
1 month ago

Maybe Skimmingway took the day off? He’s usually on here about now.

@Big Titty Demon

Or he just has a particular spite for Naglfar?

I think it’s this. He’s annoyed that I keep breaking his arguments and making fun of him, and this is the only way he can retaliate. Other commenters also proposed that he might be crushing on me a bit and doing the online equivalent of pulling my hair.
Trolls generally don’t like me much. And that’s fine by me.

kevinhancockk
kevinhancockk
1 month ago

@ Skimmingway

No lefties in the military? I’ll raise you the late Lord (Paddy) Ashdown, Life Peer for SBS (think more or less Navy SEAL if you are American) and political service.

There will be other lefties in the Mess, but nobody in our (UK) armed services are allowed to be publicly open about political affiliations until after discharge. I’m sure someone in the know could back me up on this even here.

On another of your assertions, you must be aware different cultures do monarchism differently. Would you want to be a Year King for example? Or maybe an Anglo-Saxon king subject to the approval of aethelings, ealdormen and priests? ‘Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’ especially when your subjects decide to chop it off after concluding you’ve gone too far.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
1 month ago

OK, guys, I’m starting to get worried about whether things will ever return to normal here.

The virus itself has, by all reports, been eradicated entirely in my county in Ontario. The numbers show steady declines in active case counts across Canada, with a trend suggesting that the entire province of Ontario could be virus-free around the start of September and Canada as a whole not long after.

Supposedly, we’re in “stage 3 reopening” now in most of Ontario, which is supposed to be pretty much business as usual except with masks and distancing, and no really big events like indoor concerts and such.

But I’m not seeing any sign of it. The last time I was out around town, which was Thursday, though most retail was open the KFC still had a sign up saying its dining room was closed. The local cinema has no showtimes listed at CinemaClock, and so forth.

Things are, clearly, not at “stage 3 reopening” in my town, despite claims made in various places by various parties to the contrary. And there’s no evidence that that is going to change.

This presents a problem because it suggests that the few things I did recreationally outside of my home, particularly, seeing the odd film and having the odd meal out, are not just gone temporarily but gone forever. Indeed, at some point soon I’m going to start missing out on films when they come and go without the local cinema ever being open during their run.

Worse, I’m worried that our neoliberal overlords will take this opportunity to shut some things down permanently and replace them with more expensive and less accessible alternatives. For example, what if cinema showings of films never come back at all and they replace them with streaming? No more going to a local cinema and paying cash. Now you need to move to the big city where there’s fast enough broadband to stream high-def video, and pay $2000+ a month rents, plus some subscription fee for a video service that no doubt requires a credit card (and thus good credit), just to watch new movies when they first come out. Everyone else — everyone rural, exurban, in smaller towns and cities, poor, with bad credit, and/or on a fixed income — will be forced to wait for the DVD, and spend a year in a minefield of spoilers in the interim.

This isn’t just paranoid ideation. It looks an awful lot like the neoliberal overlords were already busily doing exactly that to television even before COVID hit, and one assumes that this is intentional, no doubt because they make more money that way. Lower costs, more control to try to limit so-called “piracy”, and the ability to use more complex and opaque structures to ding people with higher fees. And their buddies in the real estate business no doubt love the idea of punishing people for living anywhere where rents are non-stratospheric by cutting off their access to current entertainment.

I have no defense against this. I can’t possibly ever afford a rent even much higher than the one I’m paying now, since the world has made it clear it considers me “surplus to requirements” vis-a-vis any kind of job that doesn’t pay worse than disability does, and my own conditions make it unlikely I could ever have long-term stable employment in any capacity other than very unstable, low-paid gig work of some sort anyway.

I am becoming more and more cut off from any semblance of a society, other than via online methods like commenting here. I’m not even seen in public anymore except briefly in a grocery store or the bank once a week or so.

And I can’t be the only one who is disappearing like this. What is happening to society? What are the long term consequences of even further atomizing it like this, and especially of driving everyone below the car-ownership-enabling income bracket into a form of online-only pseudo-hermitude like this?

Battering Lamb
Battering Lamb
1 month ago

I have no defense against this. I can’t possibly ever afford a rent even much higher than the one I’m paying now, since the world has made it clear it considers me “surplus to requirements” vis-a-vis any kind of job that doesn’t pay worse than disability does, and my own conditions make it unlikely I could ever have long-term stable employment in any capacity other than very unstable, low-paid gig work of some sort anyway.

OK, suddenly your name makes sense to me. I also live on my countries equivalent of disability and the cost of living does seem to go up regardless of how the economy is doing. I wish I had something encouraging to say aside from I hear you. I worry about the return to ‘normal’ too but where I live it’s more along the lines of ‘it seems we opened to soon and too leniently and it’s probably more a matter of ‘when’ we’ll shut down again as opposed to ‘if’.’

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
1 month ago

WHile I do feel for the people who feel they are surplus to requirement, I feel obligated to say a bunch of things :
* our capitalistic overlord overall prefer movie theaters to streaming, and television over internet. Television and movie theaters are *massively* more profitable ; what’s killing them is that the alternative is cheaper and more qualitative, not that nefarious overlords dislike them.
* the virus isn’t eradicated from Ontario, or from anywhere. That’s wishful thinking, something politics will do, but in actual practice you would need a year or so to be sure ; it’s a virus that might have big non-human reservoirs after all !